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Guest Message by DevFuse

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My first -- and last -- impression of 1080P on DirecTV


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103 replies to this topic

#26 OFFLINE   CCarncross

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 10:07 AM

Over the weekend, I tired of football for a while and decided to take advantage of DirecTv's anniversary offer. I downloaded a 1080P pay-for-view movie.

We chose "The American". Loved the movie, was disappointed with the PQ.

My lesson? Stick with Blu-ray.

Anyone have a a better experience?


1080P looks fantastic on D*, but that said, it will never look as good as a BD disk playing in your living room. Why would anyone think that it could? It will also never sound as good, currently no provider is offering or transmitting any of the newer audio formats that are available on most of today's newer BD titles...

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#27 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 10:17 AM

Exactly.

No service can match, or even come close, to the bandwidth that a locally-attached Blu-Ray player has. VoD downloads have an average bitrate of about 8 Mb/s, with peaks as high as 12 MB/s or so, plus, they were encoded using multi-pass encoding over hours or even days, to allow the very best quality to be squeezed out and still have a relatively low bitrate. But a Blu-Ray can sustain 40 Mb/s, with peaks of 50 Mb/s! That's an average of FIVE TIMES the bitrate of a VoD file, and even more than a "live" linear channel, which has a further disadvantage of being compressed in real time, which means the compression isn't as optimized. It's like drinking out of a firehose instead of a garden hose.

Expecting anything else to compare well against Blu-Ray is, well, kind of silly. Not only does Blu-Ray have tons of bitrate, it can also do UNCOMPRESSED 7.1 channel audio too! It really is a home theater buff's dream format. But if that is your quality "standard", you won't be happy with a movie delivered any other way.


Yeah, 1080P over 1080i format seems pretty much a marketing gimmick as far as PQ is concern as real deciding factor is the available bandwidth of which BD is of course unrivaled via a high bandwidth local connection to an HDTV.

#28 OFFLINE   sigma1914

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 10:19 AM

I was going to buy "Inception" in standard DVD since it doesn't really have many special effects.....love the movie though. I bought it in Blu-Ray, the Blu-Ray and the standard DVD were priced the same at Fry's Electronics on release day.

:eek2:
Inception is a great BR title... it's visually stunning.

From http://www.blu-ray.c...-Blu-ray/14492/

Inception's unassuming interiors, wind-swept city streets, lush parks, warm hotel hallways, stormy beaches and icy military bunkers are brimming with bold, beautiful colors, rich blacks, (generally) lifelike skintones and striking contrast leveling. Likewise, while slight ringing rears its head throughout the film -- most, if not all, of which appeared in the film's theatrical presentation as well -- detail is crisp, clean and organic, fine textures are exceedingly well resolved, object definition is sharp and satisfying, and most every aspect of Nolan's intricate world is given ample opportunity to shine. On the technical front, artifacting, noise, smearing, aliasing, crush, banding and other obnoxious compression anomalies are either non-existent or kept to an absolute minimum, and the transfer is as proficient as they come.


If you stop responding to them or put them on ignore, then eventually they'll go away.

#29 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 10:26 AM

And you on opposite to consumer's side. Nice.

I don't ask for reasons do not do that. I did pose one possible way to DO that.

1st - irrelevant, enough space for many HD movies - the 100 GB limit is not hard coded - I mean the reserved space is allocating on SAME partition with customer's recording.

2nd - 5.1 DD would be good enough. I did not request TrueHD sound ...

3rd - I wouldn't say so - if it come to increase revenue by 10M+ sat subscribers, then money flow will be increased significantly.

Many reasons NOT to do this.

- Hard drive space - DirecTV has only about 90 GB of reserved space for these operations, and they have contracts with the studios to pre-load a number of movies at a time.

- Hardware limitations - You'll never get better than 5.1 Dolby Digital audio from these receivers, because that's the best their hardware can do. Blu-Rays support higher-bit-rate formats, upto and including 7.1 raw PCM.

- Competition - The studios control the format of the downloads, and don't want to compete against Blu-Ray, which gives them higher margins.



#30 OFFLINE   Hoosier205

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 11:48 AM

And you on opposite to consumer's side. Nice.

I don't ask for reasons do not do that. I did pose one possible way to DO that.

1st - irrelevant, enough space for many HD movies - the 100 GB limit is not hard coded - I mean the reserved space is allocating on SAME partition with customer's recording.

2nd - 5.1 DD would be good enough. I did not request TrueHD sound ...

3rd - I wouldn't say so - if it come to increase revenue by 10M+ sat subscribers, then money flow will be increased significantly.


....a few problems.

1.) The size of native BD disc-based films

- The amount of time it would take to download is unreasonable at this time
- The amount of HDD space it would consume is another issue

2.) 5.1 DD is not good enough. Picture quality is only part of the advantage to BD, audio is just as important.

Edited by Hoosier205, 04 January 2011 - 02:21 PM.

DTV = Digital Television

#31 OFFLINE   tonyd79

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 01:33 PM

[QUOTE=Hoosier205;2673925
2.) 5.1 DD is not good enough. Picture quality is only part of the advantage to BD, audio is just as important.[/QUOTE]

To you and to other audiofiles, it is, but I would be willing to bet that the percentage of people who have a blu ray player without surround sound is higher than the number of people who have no HD source for HD TVs.

To the vast unwashed, blu ray is about PICTURE not sound. Just the way it is. And the way it is marketed.
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#32 OFFLINE   Hoosier205

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 01:36 PM

To you and to other audiofiles, it is, but I would be willing to bet that the percentage of people who have a blu ray player without surround sound is higher than the number of people who have no HD source for HD TVs.

To the vast unwashed, blu ray is about PICTURE not sound. Just the way it is. And the way it is marketed.


I don't associate with those people. :D Yuck...
DTV = Digital Television

#33 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 02:11 PM

....a few problems.

1.) The size of native BD disk-based films

- The amount of time it would take to download is unreasonable at this time
- The amount of HDD space it would consume is another issue

2.) 5.1 DD is not good enough. Picture quality is only part of the advantage to BD, audio is just as important.


1) give us NUMBERs, you still compound words ...
2) 5.1 DD sound track would be good enough for 99% of sat customers

#34 OFFLINE   susanandmark

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 02:17 PM

We tried it once last year, also on a freebie offer, and found it to be better quality than regular DirecTV video, but nowhere near blu-ray ... All of which is to be expected, I think.

#35 OFFLINE   tonyd79

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 02:17 PM

I don't associate with those people. :D Yuck...


How about people who buy the all-in-one systems? They come with bluray now. Or a sound bar. I hear they magically make speakers appear from nowhere. :P
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#36 OFFLINE   Hoosier205

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 02:21 PM

How about people who buy the all-in-one systems? They come with bluray now. Or a sound bar. I hear they magically make speakers appear from nowhere. :P


I don't associate with them either. :D Friends don't let friends buy crap.
DTV = Digital Television

#37 OFFLINE   dpeters11

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 02:28 PM

To you and to other audiofiles, it is, but I would be willing to bet that the percentage of people who have a blu ray player without surround sound is higher than the number of people who have no HD source for HD TVs.

To the vast unwashed, blu ray is about PICTURE not sound. Just the way it is. And the way it is marketed.


Or a surround sound system that doesn't have HDMI (or video only HDMI.) I was one of them until fairly recently when I upgraded my receiver.

#38 OFFLINE   Hoosier205

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 02:28 PM

1) give us NUMBERs, you still compound words ...
2) 5.1 DD sound track would be good enough for 99% of sat customers


...what numbers do you want? Do you not know how large a film on blu-ray is? If someone believes that DD 5.1 is "good enough" they should just stick to DVD's.
DTV = Digital Television

#39 OFFLINE   Richierich

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 02:52 PM

...what numbers do you want? Do you not know how large a film on blu-ray is? If someone believes that DD 5.1 is "good enough" they should just stick to DVD's.


I have DD 5.1 and don't have room for DD 7.1 and I have Klipsch Reference Series Top Of The Line Speakers with 2 Downward Firing SVS 12" Subs on a Subdude and my System Will Rock Your World with a Denon AVR-5803 170 Watt Receiver so I don't think you need DD 7.1 and I have Never had a Complaint about my Audio Sound!!! :D
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#40 OFFLINE   Hoosier205

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 02:59 PM

I have DD 5.1 and don't have room for DD 7.1 and I have Klipsch Reference Series Top Of The Line Speakers with 2 Downward Firing SVS 12" Subs on a Subdude and my System Will Rock Your World with a Denon AVR-5803 170 Watt Receiver so I don't think you need DD 7.1 and I have Never had a Complaint about my Audio Sound!!! :D


I'm not talking about 5.1 vs 7.1 though. I'm talking about lossy DD/DTS vs LPCM, TrueHD, or DTS-HD.
DTV = Digital Television

#41 OFFLINE   dpeters11

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 02:59 PM

I have DD 5.1 and don't have room for DD 7.1 and I have Klipsch Reference Series Top Of The Line Speakers with 2 Downward Firing SVS 12" Subs on a Subdude and my System Will Rock Your World with a Denon AVR-5803 170 Watt Receiver so I don't think you need DD 7.1 and I have Never had a Complaint about my Audio Sound!!! :D


For me, DTS-Master Audio and the Uncompressed Dolby makes a bigger difference than 7.1 speakers. But that's just me. But it's one of the things about the receivers, an excellent one can't do something just because it doesn't have the right port.

#42 OFFLINE   pappy97

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 03:21 PM

I'm not talking about 5.1 vs 7.1 though. I'm talking about lossy DD/DTS vs LPCM, TrueHD, or DTS-HD.


Richierich's Denon AVR-5803 doesn't decode the HD audio formats I don't believe. I think it's an older receiver, but you are right. We are not talking 5.1 v. 7.1, we are talking about ordinary DD/DTS vs. uncompressed PCM, Dolby True HD, and DTS-HD Master Audio.
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#43 OFFLINE   Richierich

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 03:25 PM

Richierich's Denon AVR-5803 doesn't decode the HD audio formats I don't believe. I think it's an older receiver, but you are right. We are not talking 5.1 v. 7.1, we are talking about ordinary DD/DTS vs. uncompressed PCM, Dolby True HD, and DTS-HD Master Audio.


Yes, you are Right as I don't have Dolby True HD, etc. but I paid $5,000 for it and I am not going to buy a New One just to get Dolby True HD and HDMI!!!
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#44 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 03:41 PM

...what numbers do you want? Do you not know how large a film on blu-ray is? If someone believes that DD 5.1 is "good enough" they should just stick to DVD's.


Don't make me think you're ... cannot read past posts :P

Size of movies and time to download it to DVR's HDD. with your calculations, please.

[If you'll still making words, not numbers, I could point you to my numbers what I posted when dish start DL 1080p movies to their DVRs]

#45 OFFLINE   Hoosier205

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 03:58 PM

Don't make me think you're ... cannot read past posts :P

Size of movies and time to download it to DVR's HDD. with your calculations, please.

[If you'll still making words, not numbers, I could point you to my numbers what I posted when dish start DL 1080p movies to their DVRs]


I may need a translator to properly understand your posts, but I will give it a shot.

A download could be smaller, with a 15-25 GB file size (from a BD-25 source). The download could also be larger, with a file size reaching nearly 50GB (from a BD-50 source). These are, of course, far larger than DirecTV 1080p offerings. Do your own calculations based on your own internet provider.
DTV = Digital Television

#46 OFFLINE   Steve

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 04:00 PM

Yes, you are Right as I don't have Dolby True HD, etc. but I paid $5,000 for it and I am not going to buy a New One just to get Dolby True HD and HDMI!!!

My Yamaha RX-V2600 doesn't decode True HD or Master Audio either, but but my $200 LG BD390 player does and offers analog output of all 8 channels (see below). I've got those hooked-up to the Yammy's "multichannel" inputs.

http://t1.gstatic.co...bUp0llXPRXfSbXw
/steve

#47 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 04:01 PM

I'm talking about push-VOD (thru sats) [FVOD in case of dish provider]. Definitely you lost the thread meaning.

#48 OFFLINE   Hoosier205

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 04:07 PM

I'm talking about push-VOD (thru sats) [FVOD in case of dish provider]. Definitely you lost the thread meaning.


It was probably lost as the result of an obvious language barrier between English and whatever it is that you are utilizing. :rolleyes: Expecting a provider to encode and push multiple 25-50GB files is ridiculous.
DTV = Digital Television

#49 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 04:12 PM

Will you please read posts back ? I did mention DL, not "encoding". Pheww ...
And don't create false impression you do know SIZES of 1080p/24 movies on BR disks.

#50 OFFLINE   sdirv

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 04:29 PM

:eek2:
Inception is a great BR title... it's visually stunning.

From http://www.blu-ray.c...-Blu-ray/14492/


Well...I saw it first in the theater, and the second time on Blu-Ray.

I tend to buy movies on Blu-Ray IF they are "Special Effects" movies (or if the price of the BR titles are especially good on release week). Otherwise, I still buy movies on standard DVD format (my system upconverts to 1080P).

I'm still impressed (sometimes) with the quality of the picture and audio on standard DVD releases.




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