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Purpose of the World Direct Dish?


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66 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   prestone683

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Posted 13 January 2011 - 10:47 PM

In general, why does Direct still use the World Direct dish? If the Slimline is roughly the same size, and the 95 isn't as far to the 99 as the 101 is to the 119 (20 vs. 4), why can't they make the slimline dish receive the 95 if a proper LNB was fitted?

I'm no rocket scientist, but it wouldn't seem too hard to do....

Better yet, mirror those damn 10 or so channels onto another bird and save the cost of the dishes, truck rolls, etc.

'You want the 2 Vietnamese channels?' *Sends signals over 101 or 103 or whatever* Alright, all activated... Seems it would save a lot on install, truck rolls, etc.

Cause usually World Direct's are free installs, and the packages may only include a couple channels and little or no contracts...

Whatever, I don't own the company, just asking questions....

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#2 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 13 January 2011 - 11:10 PM

Your idea of another LNB, may have once been an idea, than never went anyplace. Look at the "blank ear" on the SL5 and you'll see something that looks like it might have once been a plan.
Moving anything to the prime 99/101/103 slots must be for the max customer base, which I doubt "the 2 Vietnamese channels" qualify for.
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#3 OFFLINE   prestone683

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Posted 14 January 2011 - 12:01 AM

I was being semi-sarcastic about the Vietnamese channels. There's probably 4 :P

My point is that, from what I remember, there is like 30 total channels, 2 or 4 each language, 11 languages... Seems like a lot of payment to use a bird, for that few. But that's about the same as the virtually unused 110 now...

Anyways.. I always wondered if they could get the 72.5 on the same dish. In NY anyways, the 72.5 is in the same Kepler belt as the other 5 birds. And 72.5 degrees, is just about where the belt begins is Eastern descent again. So I guess it might work here, if the pan were wide enough. 101 to 119 is 20, 101 to 72.5 is 28.5... So I mean, maybe its too far, but I was just thinking.

*Smell of smoke lingers in hair*

But again, for NY its a straight line, further west, it would be beyond the curve I think. 72.5 would be at the same altitude as say the 101, but different azimuths, meaning the dish and LNB would have to warp to match it I think... Like a parabola I think...

Too much thinking...

Too late at night... :-p

Thanks...

#4 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 14 January 2011 - 12:44 AM

Look at Clarke Belt by using www.dishpointer.com

Edited by P Smith, 19 January 2011 - 03:42 PM.
mistyping


#5 OFFLINE   prestone683

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Posted 14 January 2011 - 12:50 AM

Yea, I have. I have the augmented reality apps for both iPhone and Android. Here in NY Latitude, the 72.5 is almost of the highest birds in the sky. Almost completely due south for me here.. Head west, and the dish is more easterly....

#6 OFFLINE   doctor j

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Posted 14 January 2011 - 10:04 AM

There are actually 85 channels on SAT 95, about 71 "active".

http://www.dbstalk.c...ad.php?t=188487

So more than just a few to move.
That being said a transfer to 110/119 could be done, especially if 119 SD spot beams eventually converted to KA 99/103.

Directv Latin America uses a lot of 95 Galaxy IIIc space so Directv not as likely to consider it someone else's sat as it does with 72.5.

Not much talk lately about the RB band but another site for "niche" programming. When implemented a new Dish/LNB system likely.

Directv moves very slowly in these transfers.

Elimination of 72.5 has been several years ongoing. Should be completed by end of this year.

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#7 OFFLINE   TheRatPatrol

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Posted 14 January 2011 - 10:23 AM

.....why can't they make the slimline dish receive the 95 if a proper LNB was fitted?

Something like this?

Attached Thumbnails

  • slineline LNB for 95.jpg


#8 OFFLINE   bobnielsen

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Posted 14 January 2011 - 10:38 AM

To add a LNB for 95, the feedhorn would have to be located in a specific location on the assembly there is probably not enough room between that location and the location of the 99/101/103 feedhorn (which is larger) to do so without interference. 110 and/or 119 would be a better choice, although 110 has only 3 transponders, which wouldn't be enough if there are any plans to go to HD with the international channels.

#9 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 14 January 2011 - 10:49 AM

To add a LNB for 95, the feedhorn would have to be located in a specific location on the assembly there is probably not enough room between that location and the location of the 99/101/103 feedhorn (which is larger) to do so without interference. 110 and/or 119 would be a better choice, although 110 has only 3 transponders, which wouldn't be enough if there are any plans to go to HD with the international channels.

You might have missed the post above yours, but it does seen reasonable to have used the "blank ear" of the SL5 for the 95 LNB.
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#10 OFFLINE   BattleZone

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Posted 14 January 2011 - 10:51 AM

In general, why does Direct still use the World Direct dish? If the Slimline is roughly the same size, and the 95 isn't as far to the 99 as the 101 is to the 119 (20 vs. 4), why can't they make the slimline dish receive the 95 if a proper LNB was fitted?


The answer is physics.

Galaxy 3C (i.e., "95") is a very different satellite than all the others DirecTV uses (in the US). It uses linear polarity instead of circular polarity, and is only a medium-powered satellite, where as the DBS and Ka sats are high-powered. And DirecTV only uses the odd transponders, which are horizontally polerized.

The World Direct dish is already at bare minimum size to pick up G3C, and that's with it already being several inches wider than a Ka/Ku (horizontal polarity, remember), and with the entire dish focusing directly on the FSS LNB.

Were you to put the same LNB on the Ka/Ku dish, which is not as wide and considerably de-focused (to feed multiple LNBs), you would probably not get enough signal to even register on a meter. Remember that the 95 LNB would be quite a bit off-center too.

As many of us have talked about for years, the best plan would be to migrate those channels to 110/119, and lose Galaxy 3C altogether. DirecTV is leasing space there, while they own all of the other sats (except 72.5, which they are vacating).

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#11 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 14 January 2011 - 10:57 AM

The answer is physics.

Which may be why "the ear" is still blank/empty.
The difference is width of the reflector, may not have been that much of an issue [and why this might have even been thought of], but the off center focus sure might be.
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#12 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 14 January 2011 - 12:04 PM

The answer is physics.

Galaxy 3C (i.e., "95") is a very different satellite than all the others DirecTV uses (in the US). It uses linear polarity instead of circular polarity, and is only a medium-powered satellite, where as the DBS and Ka sats are high-powered. And DirecTV only uses the odd transponders, which are horizontally polerized.
The World Direct dish is already at bare minimum size to pick up G3C, and that's with it already being several inches wider than a Ka/Ku (horizontal polarity, remember), and with the entire dish focusing directly on the FSS LNB.

Were you to put the same LNB on the Ka/Ku dish, which is not as wide and considerably de-focused (to feed multiple LNBs), you would probably not get enough signal to even register on a meter. Remember that the 95 LNB would be quite a bit off-center too.

As many of us have talked about for years, the best plan would be to migrate those channels to 110/119, and lose Galaxy 3C altogether. DirecTV is leasing space there, while they own all of the other sats (except 72.5, which they are vacating).


Thanks BZ, good explanation;

Just a note, it seems that the actual transponder numbering for DirecTV's World Direct services on the G3C satellite is a confusing mixture of both odd and even numbered transponders, 1, 7, 10, 12, 13, 15, 22, and 23, though all are horizontally polarized (18 volts).

And I'm still trying to indentify where transponder 23 is located. The Lyngsat entires from P. Smith and one other contributor for "DirecTV USA" (World Direct service) on the G3C bird only list the previous 7.

http://www.lyngsat.com/galaxy3c.html

#13 OFFLINE   RobertE

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Posted 14 January 2011 - 12:57 PM

I have removed my SL3 lnb from my dish and can *hold* the 95lnb in the proper position and get a pretty good reading on my birdog. So it's entirely possible for the slimline to feed enough signal to the LNB.
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#14 OFFLINE   doctor j

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Posted 14 January 2011 - 01:27 PM

See link above:

TPN 23 has only "TEST" channels.

1	*DTV	9961	23	G3C @95W	95		28		9961
1	*DTV	9962	23	G3C @95W	95		001E		9962
1	*DTV	9963	23	G3C @95W	95		000A		9963
1	*DTV	9964	23	G3C @95W	95		32		9964
1	*DTV	9965	23	G3C @95W	95		32		9965
1	*DTV	9966	23	G3C @95W	95		32		9966
1	*DTV	9967	23	G3C @95W	95		32		9967
1	*DTV	9968	23	G3C @95W	95		32		9968
1	*DTV	9969	23	G3C @95W	95		32		9969
1	*DTV	9971	23	G3C @95W	95		96		9971

Probably 12170 MHz H polarization

Doctor j

Edited by doctor j, 14 January 2011 - 01:31 PM.
added freq.

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#15 OFFLINE   bobnielsen

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Posted 14 January 2011 - 01:52 PM

You might have missed the post above yours, but it does seen reasonable to have used the "blank ear" of the SL5 for the 95 LNB.


True, but it would have to be quite close to the 99/101/103 horn and there might not be enough room for both (one could tell be looking at a SL5 LNB assembly, which I do not have).

There would be an additional cost for a "SL6" and possibly there aren't enough international customers that there would be a net savings over using two dishes.

Additionally, I suspect that 95 may not be in Directv's (USA, not Latin America) long-range plans.

#16 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 14 January 2011 - 01:53 PM

I'm reading your post BZ as pure verbal exercise :)

It cannot be accepted from technical standpoint , nor from experimental.

The answer is physics.

Galaxy 3C (i.e., "95") is a very different satellite than all the others DirecTV uses (in the US). It uses linear polarity instead of circular polarity, and is only a medium-powered satellite, where as the DBS and Ka sats are high-powered. And DirecTV only uses the odd transponders, which are horizontally polerized.

The World Direct dish is already at bare minimum size to pick up G3C, and that's with it already being several inches wider than a Ka/Ku (horizontal polarity, remember), and with the entire dish focusing directly on the FSS LNB.

Were you to put the same LNB on the Ka/Ku dish, which is not as wide and considerably de-focused (to feed multiple LNBs), you would probably not get enough signal to even register on a meter. Remember that the 95 LNB would be quite a bit off-center too.

As many of us have talked about for years, the best plan would be to migrate those channels to 110/119, and lose Galaxy 3C altogether. DirecTV is leasing space there, while they own all of the other sats (except 72.5, which they are vacating).



#17 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 14 January 2011 - 01:56 PM

See link above:

TPN 23 has only "TEST" channels.

1	*DTV	9961	23	G3C @95W	95		28		9961
1	*DTV	9962	23	G3C @95W	95		001E		9962
1	*DTV	9963	23	G3C @95W	95		000A		9963
1	*DTV	9964	23	G3C @95W	95		32		9964
1	*DTV	9965	23	G3C @95W	95		32		9965
1	*DTV	9966	23	G3C @95W	95		32		9966
1	*DTV	9967	23	G3C @95W	95		32		9967
1	*DTV	9968	23	G3C @95W	95		32		9968
1	*DTV	9969	23	G3C @95W	95		32		9969
1	*DTV	9971	23	G3C @95W	95		96		9971

Probably 12170 MHz H polarization

Doctor j


Adding to that - the tp23 @ 95W data above presenting in System Tables [APG] and don't acknowledge by instrumental tests ( Spectrum Analyzer).

#18 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 14 January 2011 - 01:58 PM

True, but it would have to be quite close to the 99/101/103 horn and there might not be enough room for both (one could tell be looking at a SL5 LNB assembly, which I do not have).

There would be an additional cost for a "SL6" and possibly there aren't enough international customers that there would be a net savings over using two dishes.

Additionally, I suspect that 95 may not be in Directv's (USA, not Latin America) long-range plans.

More ... you missed post#13 (or ignoring it ?).

#19 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 14 January 2011 - 02:20 PM

True, but it would have to be quite close to the 99/101/103 horn and there might not be enough room for both (one could tell be looking at a SL5 LNB assembly, which I do not have).

I do have one and measured it.
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#20 OFFLINE   BattleZone

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Posted 14 January 2011 - 02:23 PM

I have removed my SL3 lnb from my dish and can *hold* the 95lnb in the proper position and get a pretty good reading on my birdog. So it's entirely possible for the slimline to feed enough signal to the LNB.


The proper position being to the side of the 99 LNB, or in the center?

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