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No B Band Converters?


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36 replies to this topic

#21 OFFLINE   Stuart Sweet

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Posted 20 January 2011 - 01:25 PM

I think that's a bit harsh but I do think that if you're going to self-install you do need to do the research. DIRECTV, just like any other technology provider, is constantly updating its service and that requires changes in hardware.

The BBC itself was never intended to be a permanent solution. SWiM technology is now four years old and has been the default install technology for quite some time. When you ordered the HR24, it makes sense that it work, out of the box, with any dish installed in the last 18 months. I think that's about how long SWiM installs have been the default.

I have been through a lot of system upgrades myself, not only with DIRECTV equipment but with all sorts of computers. In my opinion anything older than 18 months old should be considered to be a potential compatibility issue with new hardware.
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#22 OFFLINE   tcusta00

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Posted 20 January 2011 - 06:19 PM

Should I have to wait that long to get something for free or any other price?


Yes. It's legacy equipment. They don't need to make them anymore except to replace bad ones on old installs or support people that decide to install new equipment on older infrastructure.

#23 OFFLINE   joed32

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 08:18 AM

"Getting you?" I think that's a bit harsh. But non-SWiM systems are now considered "legacy" and any major change to your system, like adding HD or adding multi-room viewing, now implies a switch to SWiM technology.

I agree with you on the composite cables, but I suspect that's changing as well. I disagree on the comparative costs of the HDMI vs. BBC. HDMI cables are being made all the time and it's easy to find them for under $6. BBCs would have to be custom manufactured for DIRECTV and I suspect they really don't want or need to place a new order for them with Zinwell.


When I tried to add MRV over Deca (twice) they did not include SWM. Since I have 11 tuners their computer assumes that I already have it and will not put it on the work order. The second time I talked to different departments all day and my installer was trying to work through his company to change it. It seems that no one can change a work order and no one can manually put SWM on a work order. Every one I talked to did their best to help me but they could not. I know that I have posted this before, sorry about that, but when you say any major change gets you a SWM set up it just opens up the wound.

#24 OFFLINE   mluntz

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 10:46 AM

You've been active here 8+ years, the OP 4+ years. To simply not know how things are done in the DirecTv world for an active enthusiast is a piss poor excuse at best.

If someone wants to go outside of normal channels, then they assume all the pitfalls that come with it.


So the bottom line is that anyone with active HD service who requests a DVR from D* should automatically recieve an HR24? We know that's not the case! Are HR20,21,22,and 23's considered "legacy" recievers now too?

Are they going to send external DECA's with those recievers, assuming I already have a SWiM system with MRV, or do I have to be "competent" enough to know I have to order them seperately?

If and when external DECA's get phased out too, just like BBC's, then I assume Hr24's, or whatever comes next, will be the only recievers sent out.

Not everbody reads forums like this, and has pertenant information readily available. Nor is everyone fortunate enough to be able to upgrade to the "latest and greatest" every time something new comes out.
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#25 OFFLINE   RobertE

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 10:54 AM

So the bottom line is that anyone with active HD service who requests a DVR from D* should automatically recieve an HR24? We know that's not the case! Are HR20,21,22,and 23's considered "legacy" recievers now too?

Are they going to send external DECA's with those recievers, assuming I already have a SWiM system with MRV, or do I have to be "competent" enough to know I have to order them seperately?

If and when external DECA's get phased out too, just like BBC's, then I assume Hr24's, or whatever comes next, will be the only recievers sent out.

Not everbody reads forums like this, and has pertenant information readily available. Nor is everyone fortunate enough to be able to upgrade to the "latest and greatest" every time something new comes out.


Where are you getting that automatic HR24 stuff? I never said that, in fact, my post history is quite the contrary.

As for getting a deca shipped with a non-Hx24. That I can't say, as I don't know. I would like to think that if all the applicable flags are set in ones account, then the system should be smart enough to send it out. But, I don't think it is.

Next, I'm not making a general case here. I'm talking about people that DO read this site, know what they are doing, know how DirecTv and Dish do things, and yet are somehow surprised when it happens to them. Crazy.

Frankly, I wish they wouldn't drop ship any receivers other than replacements for bad boxes. Fixing DIY'ers mess gets old.
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#26 OFFLINE   mashandhogan

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 12:14 PM

Hey, I'm an DIY:D

I ran into a similar case. When I ordered a HDDVR, when I recieved the HR24-500, there was no bbands. took only 3 days to recieve them. I think that DTV may think my legacy setup is a SWM setup, because I was able to activate my DIY wholehome online.
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#27 OFFLINE   mluntz

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 01:26 PM

Frankly, I wish they wouldn't drop ship any receivers other than replacements for bad boxes. Fixing DIY'ers mess gets old.


First of all, It's not a mess, it's an inconveniance. Second of all, I've never had a D* installer in my house, and I've been a customer since 1996.

I purchased my last HR24 less than 4 months ago, and the BBC's were included in the box. Now all of a sudden they're not. If SWiM"s been around for 4 years, who decides when it becomes "legacy equipment"?

You can't assume everyone has a SWiM system, that's all I'm saying.
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#28 OFFLINE   Stuart Sweet

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 01:30 PM

Who decides? DIRECTV decides. It's not like there's a council or a law. DIRECTV probably saw that their stock of BBCs was running low and decided not to put them in new boxes instead of commissioning more of them.
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#29 OFFLINE   TomCat

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Posted 22 January 2011 - 08:12 PM

You've been active here 8+ years, the OP 4+ years. To simply not know how things are done in the DirecTv world for an active enthusiast is a piss poor excuse at best.

If someone wants to go outside of normal channels, then they assume all the pitfalls that come with it.

OK, now we finally know what name the CEO of DirecTV has been posting under.

Chill. No one is making excuses, and no one said they didn't understand how things are done at DirecTV. What we said is we don't think its a very smart policy. And I can't begin to imagine what you are referring to as "outside normal channels". It seems to me that drop shipping a DVR is a pretty normal and common way to get a failed DVR replaced.

But even if that were "outside normal channels", no one is saying that there should not be expected pitfalls. We're all adults and know the risks of doing business. What I am saying is that this particular pitfall is ridiculous and easy to fix, never should ever happen, and is a complete no-brainer, yet DirecTV still screws the pooch regularly by perpetuating it.

If you as CEO do not agree with that, then that's a piss-poor excuse for a CEO. At best.

Edited by TomCat, 22 January 2011 - 08:21 PM.

It's usually safe to talk honestly and openly with people because they typically are not really listening anyway.

#30 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 22 January 2011 - 08:55 PM

What we said is we don't think its a very smart policy. And I can't begin to imagine what you are referring to as "outside normal channels". It seems to me that drop shipping a DVR is a pretty normal and common way to get a failed DVR replaced.

But even if that were "outside normal channels", no one is saying that there should not be expected pitfalls. We're all adults and know the risks of doing business. What I am saying is that this particular pitfall is ridiculous and easy to fix, never should ever happen, and is a complete no-brainer, yet DirecTV still screws the pooch regularly by perpetuating it.

Tom, I don't get this.
The options normally for a replacement receiver are:

  • an installer brings one out during a service call
  • DirecTV drop ships one.
In #1, the tech should have a BBC.
In #2, even in the "old days" replacements didn't come with BBCs, since you'd reuse your old ones.

SWiM systems have been used more and more for installs and I believe have become the norm of late.
The 24s with their internal DECA weren't made for non SWiM system, though they can be used with them and need BBCs.
As has been posted before in this thread, it makes sense to only supply BBCs "upon request".

While you may feel every receiver should be sent out with every accessory any customer should ever need, this isn't how DirecTV does business.
I'd say most of us by now, being here, know that the DirecTV system is flawed, but issues/problems can be resolved.

Let's not start fighting amongst ourselves over this.
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#31 OFFLINE   TomCat

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Posted 23 January 2011 - 12:15 AM

Tom, I don't get this.
The options normally for a replacement receiver are:

  • an installer brings one out during a service call
  • DirecTV drop ships one.
In #1, the tech should have a BBC.
In #2, even in the "old days" replacements didn't come with BBCs, since you'd reuse your old ones.

SWiM systems have been used more and more for installs and I believe have become the norm of late.
The 24s with their internal DECA weren't made for non SWiM system, though they can be used with them and need BBCs.
As has been posted before in this thread, it makes sense to only supply BBCs "upon request".

While you may feel every receiver should be sent out with every accessory any customer should ever need, this isn't how DirecTV does business.
I'd say most of us by now, being here, know that the DirecTV system is flawed, but issues/problems can be resolved.

Let's not start fighting amongst ourselves over this.

I am not picking the fight, if there actually is one (I was unaware of any fight); I have no dog in this fight, if there is one. I have an opinion about why I think this is poor policy, and that is all, and I am defending that. Nothing more.

Defending position becomes necessary when one is mischaracterized, such as when you say that I feel every receiver should be sent out "with every accessory any customer should ever need". That is a gross distortion, and I never said that or anything even close to that or took a position anything of the kind. That you would say that indicates that you are just not paying attention, and paying attention is a prerequisite if you are going to chime in, so either do both or don't do either. Pick a lane.

SWM is completely beside the point, and is a separate discussion. You telling me what their policy is is completely unnecessary. I understand all too well what their policy is, and that is exactly why I am taking the position that it is wrong-headed. I would appreciate it if you would not talk down to me; you are not exactly dealing with a chimp here.

BBCs are not accessories, they are an integral part of the STB and are needed for it to work properly. This is different than not including a HDMI cable or batteries for the remote.

And I disagree completely that BBCs should be sent out only on request. The customer knows less about whether these are needed than the CSR does, and it is the responsibility of the company to see that the customer gets them, not the responsibility of the customer. That would be as ludicrous as going to Lowe's to buy an air conditioner and making it the customer's responsibility to make sure it has freon in it. The receiver should work out of the box.

If I have a HR23 or a HR10-250 that fails, and DTV in their infinite wisdom sends me a replacement which is a HR20, I may have never even heard of BBCs before. If I can't quickly lay my hands on a crystal ball, who knows what is really needed? DTV does, that's who. They know going in that my HR23 or my HR10-250 did not have BBCs, and that if they replace it with a HR20 that it will need them. How can that concept be any simpler? And how can they not take responsibility to make sure that the DVR will work out of the box?

They can make this problem go away completely if they want to. Problem is, they don't want to. This is a classic case of the right hand not knowing what the left hand is doing, but it is compounded by the fact that they know it is an ongoing problem that greatly frustrates their paying customers and are still completely unwilling to address it. That is disrespect piled on top of stupidity. Its 30 seconds of the CSR's time to determine what the outgoing and incoming models are, and indicate whether BBCs will be needed to the shipping department. Problem solved. They are obviously just plain dead wrong not to do this. It's a terrible business decision, and only incompetent idiots make business decisions this terrible. You do the math. That is, if you're paying attention. If not, don't bother.
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#32 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 23 January 2011 - 12:47 AM

Defending position becomes necessary when one is mischaracterized, such as when you say that I feel every receiver should be sent out "with every accessory any customer should ever need". That is a gross distortion, and I never said that or anything even close to that or took a position anything of the kind. That you would say that indicates that you are just not paying attention, and paying attention is a prerequisite if you are going to chime in, so either do both or don't do either. Pick a lane.

What I typed:

While you may feel...

No lane picking needed here,
"but pot meet kettle".
I was only suggesting that you "might" feel this way, and not that you had posted this.
CSRs have NO clue what receiver will be shipped as a replacement.
While the H/HR23s don't need/come with BBCs, ALL H/HR-20/21/22s have had them on old systems.
The HR10-250 is now considered an SD DVR, so not sure why this would be replaced with something needing a BBC anyway.

First you tore into Robert, and now you're trying to get a piece of me, over what "at best" is a couple of days inconvenience, for what might be very few customers, having DirecTV ship BBCs on request. :nono:

Edited by veryoldschool, 23 January 2011 - 12:56 AM.

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#33 OFFLINE   RobertE

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Posted 23 January 2011 - 08:17 AM

OK, now we finally know what name the CEO of DirecTV has been posting under.

Chill. No one is making excuses, and no one said they didn't understand how things are done at DirecTV. What we said is we don't think its a very smart policy. And I can't begin to imagine what you are referring to as "outside normal channels". It seems to me that drop shipping a DVR is a pretty normal and common way to get a failed DVR replaced.

But even if that were "outside normal channels", no one is saying that there should not be expected pitfalls. We're all adults and know the risks of doing business. What I am saying is that this particular pitfall is ridiculous and easy to fix, never should ever happen, and is a complete no-brainer, yet DirecTV still screws the pooch regularly by perpetuating it.

If you as CEO do not agree with that, then that's a piss-poor excuse for a CEO. At best.



First, I guess I need to talk with the ladies in HR because may paycheck surely doesn't reflect that of CEO.

Second, I resent the accusations you directed specificaly at me.

The drop shipping of receivers to customers is set up to be like-for-like replacements. Thats why the only included accessories are the power cord and the remote. Sometimes people get lucky and get shipped the "retail" or "dealer" packout which includes the accessories. With a like-for-like replacement BBCs are not needed and would be wasted ($).


All I'm saying is, for those that have been around for years, know how the system works, also know how to work the system. Otherwise, how are they getting the box shipped to them in the first place? Since they know how to work the system, I find it laughable that they are *shocked* to find no BBCs. Cry me a river already.
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#34 OFFLINE   The Merg

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Posted 23 January 2011 - 08:49 AM

The drop shipping of receivers to customers is set up to be like-for-like replacements. Thats why the only included accessories are the power cord and the remote. Sometimes people get lucky and get shipped the "retail" or "dealer" packout which includes the accessories. With a like-for-like replacement BBCs are not needed and would be wasted ($).


I think his point is that if you have an HR23 and it gets replaced with a HR22, your typical customer is not going to know that they also now need BBC's. The system does need to be setup up somehow so that when the replacement is sent out, if an HR23 is being replaced with a non-HR23, BBC's should be shipped out as well.

I definitely see DirecTV's point of it, as shipping BBC's with every receiver would be large expense over time.

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#35 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 23 January 2011 - 09:16 AM

I think his point is...

And yet, the first post/topic has to do with the HR24.
I don't think anyone here is suggesting the DirecTV system doesn't need/couldn't use, improvement.
To make such a point out of the H/HR-23, also doesn't make much sense since out of all the models and manufacturers of all the H/HR2x, only one H, and one HR are the only ones that don't use BBCs on a non SWiM legacy system. I'm not going to try to throw out numbers/percentages, as I have no idea of how many are out there, "but" just by model and manufacturer, the H2x is 4 to 1, and the HR2x is 8 to 1, not counting the 24s.
So even with one model of each not coming with BBCs, how many are going to be swapped by another model for a legacy system?
"If I had a nickel for every one", I'd still be broke. :lol:
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#36 OFFLINE   RobertE

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Posted 23 January 2011 - 09:18 AM

Since this topic has been asked and answered and is now going down the personal attack road, perhaps it's time to close this one.
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#37 OFFLINE   Mike Bertelson

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Posted 23 January 2011 - 11:31 AM

Ok. Asked and answered so I think we're done.

Mike

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