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Sports Bar, Install Help Needed


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46 replies to this topic

#26 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 25 January 2011 - 11:46 PM

Everyone is answering most your questions, I would also note that you may want to make sure that all receivers are easily hooked up to a network with wireless acess.. And then the owner can get an ipad, mount it at the bar, and control all of the receivers via CoPilot, which is directvs upcoming ipad ap (which I think will work via ip control) to control their dvrs... Then no more need to have 7 remotes and having to remember things.. It looks like you can scroll through guides, etc with the co pilot.. Of course its not out just yet, But it has been announced, screen shots have been shown, and its probably coming soonish... Just something to consider for longer term.. If this is done, I would suspect it be easiest to get one switch, a basic router, and set it the receivers on their own network so they don't interfere with anything else...

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#27 OFFLINE   Exerd

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 12:31 AM

Everyone is answering most your questions, I would also note that you may want to make sure that all receivers are easily hooked up to a network with wireless acess.. And then the owner can get an ipad, mount it at the bar, and control all of the receivers via CoPilot, which is directvs upcoming ipad ap (which I think will work via ip control) to control their dvrs... Then no more need to have 7 remotes and having to remember things.. It looks like you can scroll through guides, etc with the co pilot.. Of course its not out just yet, But it has been announced, screen shots have been shown, and its probably coming soonish... Just something to consider for longer term.. If this is done, I would suspect it be easiest to get one switch, a basic router, and set it the receivers on their own network so they don't interfere with anything else...


Do they make that app for Android?

The owner of the course (it's a new golf course with sports bar) has a Droid phone, and is considering buying an Android tablet. He seems to dislike Apple products, so that would be great if that program was available on Android.

Anyways, it's getting late and I'm very tired, so I will have to re-read some posts here in the morning and come back to respond about a few other things.

#28 OFFLINE   Walter Lawrence

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 01:53 PM

Is there any reason the client would not want to mount the boxes behind the TVs?

This would make the install extremely simple. One KA/KU, one SWM16 switch, one pi-29 power inserter, two sws8 splitters. Done

This would give each tv HD and all the channels as well as cut the cost of the HDMI cable which drops signal over distance.

As far as remotes toss on an mx-800 or the like and you can control all the boxes you want.

K.I.S.S

#29 OFFLINE   matt

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 04:09 PM

Is there any reason the client would not want to mount the boxes behind the TVs?

This would make the install extremely simple. One KA/KU, one SWM16 switch, one pi-29 power inserter, two sws8 splitters. Done

This would give each tv HD and all the channels as well as cut the cost of the HDMI cable which drops signal over distance.

As far as remotes toss on an mx-800 or the like and you can control all the boxes you want.

K.I.S.S


They OP says 7 tuners, so why not a SWM LNB Ka/Ku, one 21 volt PI, and one 8-way splitter? Done.

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#30 OFFLINE   joe diamond

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 09:26 PM

Is there any reason the client would not want to mount the boxes behind the TVs?

This would make the install extremely simple. One KA/KU, one SWM16 switch, one pi-29 power inserter, two sws8 splitters. Done

This would give each tv HD and all the channels as well as cut the cost of the HDMI cable which drops signal over distance.

As far as remotes toss on an mx-800 or the like and you can control all the boxes you want.

K.I.S.S

Walter,

The "set top box" idea has been presented. It is elegant in its' simplicity and low cost (EZ$). Such an installation in a graduate school lounge would sell. As you go down the ladder the conduct and needs of the customers of the client change.

As I mentioned early on..."sports bars are worse that any junior high school in the world..." You have drunken ass holes betting on stuff and screaming as the boys run around on the field. Cut them ass holes loose with a remote and, after they change the input feed, they will wreck the place in the name of sports. They will even have intercourse* with horses that win, place or show.

Joe

Edited by joe diamond, 26 January 2011 - 11:21 PM.
typo + removed ****


#31 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 10:51 PM

Do they make that app for Android?

The owner of the course (it's a new golf course with sports bar) has a Droid phone, and is considering buying an Android tablet. He seems to dislike Apple products, so that would be great if that program was available on Android.

Anyways, it's getting late and I'm very tired, so I will have to re-read some posts here in the morning and come back to respond about a few other things.


Like I said, its only announced at the moment, not out yet.. Apple will definetly be first up no mater what. I would not be surprised if we don't see an andriod version at some point, but who knows.

#32 OFFLINE   Mr-Rick

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Posted 27 January 2011 - 08:20 PM

I have to side with simplicity. My commercial installs put the satellite receiver mounted to the back of the television. (I make a custom mount and it fits perfect on suspended TV's). So put a receiver (7) at each TV. The customer should be using commercial flat panels that can be programmed to lock out the buttons so inputs cant be changed if he thinks this will be an issue. I would then put an 8th receiver in the back for "house sound". This could be music or a game later on. With Directv commercial choice plus (public) there won't be monthly charges for additional receivers upto 15 or 20.

Two guys can "bust this out" in 6 hours tops.

As an aside, years ago I used S-video matrix switchers for some sports bars. All the boxes were in a central location and used Cat5 and baluns to run lines to the TV's. Each TV had an S-video signal and the picture was better than any modulated channel. Cat5 is great and I had some long runs with NO problems! Never had a balun go bad either. New employees had to learn it but they caught on quick. Face it, in a sports bar, the channels are fixed on the ESPNS and regional sports networks. Not much changing around. Sunday would be different for NFLST.

#33 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 27 January 2011 - 11:26 PM

Personally, I think its very simple to just run hdmi to all the tv's and locate all the receivers in your server room...

Just make sure you label all the boxes so you can easily tell which one goes to which...

#34 OFFLINE   dsw2112

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Posted 27 January 2011 - 11:41 PM

...In the back room I put in a 'headend' system where all recievers were in a 19" rack, I then ran from that location to all TV locations, one RG6 and one cat5 to standard wall plates. In the equipment rack have all DTV recievers going to commerical demods to a combiner which all tv locations were then connected. Now, with this setup, the owner can put ANY channel on ANY tv OR all TV's on the same channel using the channel control on the TV....


By going this route wouldn't there have to be a receiver for each individual channel (i.e. one receiver dedicated to ESPN, one to ESPN2, etc...?) If that's the case it could make for a lot more receivers than the 7 required in other suggestions.
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#35 OFFLINE   RobertE

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Posted 28 January 2011 - 06:04 AM

By going this route wouldn't there have to be a receiver for each individual channel (i.e. one receiver dedicated to ESPN, one to ESPN2, etc...?) If that's the case it could make for a lot more receivers than the 7 required in other suggestions.


No.

It would only require as many boxes equal to the total number of seperate channels needing to be viewed at the same time. So in this case, with 7 tvs, only 7 boxes are needed. Any more wouldn't be viewed...anywhere.
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#36 OFFLINE   ffemtreed

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Posted 28 January 2011 - 08:48 AM

If this was my sports bar I would have a headend system that the channels can be multiplexed into my own little TV station. I would have a local basic cable and an antenna on the roof all blended in with the 7 satellite channels I would want to watch.

#37 OFFLINE   cabletech

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Posted 28 January 2011 - 10:31 AM

dsw- these last two posts kinda of answers your question. No, you would not NEED more recievers, but you can put in as many as you like and as ffemtreed says "make my own cable system", that is what it is all about, easy to service and add to the system.

#38 OFFLINE   ffemtreed

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Posted 28 January 2011 - 10:40 AM

dsw- these last two posts kinda of answers your question. No, you would not NEED more recievers, but you can put in as many as you like and as ffemtreed says "make my own cable system", that is what it is all about, easy to service and add to the system.


Just remember with that solution HD is going to be hard to achieve.

#39 OFFLINE   dsw2112

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Posted 28 January 2011 - 10:42 AM

dsw- these last two posts kinda of answers your question. No, you would not NEED more recievers, but you can put in as many as you like and as ffemtreed says "make my own cable system", that is what it is all about, easy to service and add to the system.


Interesting. I was able to take a look at a headend system (in a hotel) about a year back, and it was a bit different than what you're describing. Basically they had each receiver in the rack locked to a set channel, then fed each receiver into a multiplexor. Since the receiver's were "locked-in" they needed a receiver for each individual channel a guest wanted to watch. If they wanted a guest to be able to watch 35 D* channelse they needed 35 receivers. It worked just like a "cable" system at the guest's end.

It sounds like you could perform this type of "cable interface" now as long as the number of receivers equal the number of Tv's?
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#40 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 28 January 2011 - 11:30 AM

It sounds like you could perform this type of "cable interface" now as long as the number of receivers equal the number of Tv's?

Wouldn't this really be "switched video"?
I see two structures here:

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  • All channels are available all the time.
The receiver count will vary between these two.
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#41 OFFLINE   dsw2112

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Posted 28 January 2011 - 11:37 AM

Wouldn't this really be "switched video"?...


Yeah, I'm not sure I fully understand cabletech's usage of the multiplexor in the OP's scenario. The straightforward approach would seem to be 7 receivers in the server room with an HDMI cable to each Tv. I can see the multiplexor use in a hotel, but it seems overkill for a bar.
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#42 OFFLINE   BattleZone

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Posted 28 January 2011 - 11:38 AM

The equipment costs alone (no installation or configuration, just the parts) for an HD headend run in the neighborhood of $1500 per channel, vs $100 per channel to use a receiver at each location. I assure you that no bar owner is going to build an HD headend to run 7 TVs. Headends only make sense when you have a lot of TVs to feed, and can spread the cost across all of them. For an SD headend to make financial sense, you need a ratio of 1.1 or more TVs in the system per head-end channel. For HD, you need more like 5:1 or greater.

That's one of several reasons why most hotels/motels don't have HD headends already. The costs are too high.

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#43 OFFLINE   Exerd

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 02:38 AM

OK, so how many CAT6 cables are needed to make up for 1 HDMI cable when using them with the blauns?

I want to use the Cat6 cables with blauns. Trying to figure out how many total feet of cable I need to purchase tomorrow.

Thanks

#44 OFFLINE   Yoda-DBSguy

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 08:27 AM

OK, so how many CAT6 cables are needed to make up for 1 HDMI cable when using them with the blauns?

I want to use the Cat6 cables with blauns. Trying to figure out how many total feet of cable I need to purchase tomorrow.

Thanks


It depends on which blauns you purchase. Some only need one CAT5 cable to function while others need 2 runs of CAT5.

I'd suggest runing 2 cables as some of the adapters will also pass IR back to the receiver.

Besides, it never hurts to run an extra lead for future functionality down the line....

#45 OFFLINE   Exerd

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 02:12 PM

OK, I am still a little confused by this.

What "blaun" jacks do I need to order, to run 2 CAT6 cables to each, and terminate the cables so that I end up with HDMI output ports on the wall?

I am not worried about the IR signal right now. I just want to get it wired for HDMI to the televisions.

Thanks

#46 OFFLINE   joe diamond

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 02:28 PM

OK, I am still a little confused by this.

What "blaun" jacks do I need to order, to run 2 CAT6 cables to each, and terminate the cables so that I end up with HDMI output ports on the wall?

I am not worried about the IR signal right now. I just want to get it wired for HDMI to the televisions.

Thanks

HDMI plugs have a min of 19 pins. So you need enough cable for 10 pairs minimum. Add pair for a telco connection.

I have never attempted this......pretested & cut to length cables have served for the few HDMI long runs I have done.

Good luck,.......try these guys: L-com Connectivity Products .........25 Years - Cables, Connnectors and Supplies - 1982-2007

Joe

Edited by joe diamond, 04 February 2011 - 06:38 AM.
add a source


#47 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 10:41 PM

I'd buy hdmi cables from monoprice, and maybe add one coax run and one cat6 run to your runs to each tv just in case you need it in the future. But I'd only be using the hdmi directv to a directv receiver right now.




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