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Adding modulated signals to distribution


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17 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   deocder

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 01:14 PM

Hello,

I have spent a few hours trying to read up on my particular issue and want to clarify my understanding.

I'm trying to add 3 modulated signals into a whole house system. The ssytem has a TERK BMS58 with a single coax going to each TV where each has an HR24. If I add the modulated channels coming from a ChannelPlus 5445 into a combiner (combining with an antenna) then into the OTA input of the TERK, is it correct to assume I will need filters to prevent channel overlap?

At each HR24, do I need to use a diplexer to pull out the OTA and run to the antenna in on the TV's?

Is any of this correct?

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#2 OFFLINE   carl6

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 01:29 PM

First off, are you really using a 5x8 multiswitch? That does not pass all of the signals needed by the HD receivers/DVRs. With an HR24, you should have either an SWM installation (for a single coax feed), or a Zinwell WB68 multiswitch (for a two-coax installation), to each HD DVR.

While there are some ways to work around the issue, in general it is not possible and/or not recommended to diplex OTA (or modulated) signals on the same coax carrying the satellite signals. You best solution is to have a second coax to each TV location for the modulated signals.

If you do find a way to diplex them, then yes you will need a diplexer at each location to break them back out.

#3 OFFLINE   BattleZone

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Posted 27 January 2011 - 11:07 AM

I agree. We need more information, especially more detail on exactly what equipment you currently have as well as what equipment/features you want to end up with.

Commercial & Residential Satellite System Design & Installation
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#4 OFFLINE   cabletech

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Posted 27 January 2011 - 01:22 PM

Besides the OTA signal, what other modulated video are you looking at? Using the Terk BMS 58 is the same as using the zinwell as it has 4 inputs from the dish and a input for OTA and then at your tv location you use a sat duplexer to feed the DTV reciever with the power passing side then from the reciever to tv with HDMI and the tv with the other side to the rf port on the tv. This will allow you to use your tv remote and switch from HDMI to 'cable' input to view your channels. You WILL NOT be able to see OTA thru the DTV reciever unless you add the aim21.

#5 OFFLINE   ekgermann

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Posted 27 January 2011 - 02:20 PM

... and the AM21 will not tune the 3 channels you've modulated as it ONLY tunes what DTV puts in the Guide (which in turn is really provided by Tribune Media, not DTV). The AM21 will not blind scan.

I learned this from the School of Hard Knocks, where I got my PhD.

#6 OFFLINE   deocder

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Posted 27 January 2011 - 06:11 PM

Ok, here's what I've got:

3 D12-700's with BSF'S

5 H24's with BSF's

these are fed by the BMS-58 outputs
the only thing on the inputs is Sat A and uhf/vhf that is being fed by a diplexer with an antenna going into one side and nothing on the other. Also each tv has a diplexer feeding the sat boxes and tv...

The end goal is to be able to view direct tv, ota broadcasts, and the three modulated signals coming off the channel plus...

Edited by deocder, 27 January 2011 - 06:21 PM.
adding info


#7 OFFLINE   litzdog911

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Posted 27 January 2011 - 08:03 PM

What dish type do you have? Do you care about HiDef channels? Just wondering why you have HD Receivers since you can't get any HD channels with your current setup. And why the BSFs?
HD DVRs: HR34-700; HR24-500; (2) HR20-700 + WD eSATA 1TB drive/Antec MX1 case; HR21-700; HR21-200 w/AM21
Receivers: H25-500 HD Receiver; H21-100 HD Receiver
Mobile Devices: Nomad

Additional equipment configuration details

Sun & moon help site your satellite dish


#8 OFFLINE   deocder

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Posted 27 January 2011 - 08:24 PM

I was wondering the same thing when it was mentioned earlier in the thread about the terk. At this point I just want to make it work even if its standard definition. Beyond that, what would it take to make high def come through? I'm not sure what the satellite is, but will take a look.

Up to now I have been able to get the modulated signals through by splitting into the antenna input, but I ak not sure what I am losing in the process in regards to channel overlap, etc... I'm trying to modulated onto empty tv stations to avoid overlap....

#9 OFFLINE   cabletech

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Posted 27 January 2011 - 08:37 PM

so again I will ask...what video source's are you going to try and modulate thru the channel plus? Look on the back of your tv and tell why many and what type inputs you have. Unless you have a tv that is 5yrs or older you should have enough inputs that you will not need the channel plus. Just your tv remote for switching inputs. If you plan on hi def, then depending on your dish you should be fine. You need to start at the dish (type) to grd block to ?? to receivers at tv's. go to solidsignal .com and compare what dish you have with what they show and then go from there.

#10 OFFLINE   BattleZone

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Posted 27 January 2011 - 08:38 PM

Okay.

First, you need a dish upgrade to a Slimline (Ka/Ku) dish. I would go ahead and use a SWM (single wire multiswitch) LNB unless you know you may add additional tuners at some point, as you are already at the max of 8 tuners for a SWM LNB.

Then, you need to run a second cable to any TV you want to get OTA from a central location, where you will use a combiner (like a splitter backwards) to combine your OTA signals with the 3 modulated channels you are adding. Feed those lines directly to the coax inputs of your TVs. Obviously, only TVs with digital tuners will get the OTA signals, but all could get the 3 modulated channels.

IF you go with a SWM system, and IF you never plan to use "Whole Home DVR", then you *could* diplex in the OTA signals to your system, but I strongly recommend against doing this.

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#11 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 27 January 2011 - 08:57 PM

On each PC we have MS Paint - somebody could draw quick sketch for him ...

#12 OFFLINE   houskamp

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Posted 27 January 2011 - 09:13 PM

can be done.. in certain areas, depending on local channels.. takes some serious research to verify none of the freqs overlap.. much easier to run second cable if at all possible..

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#13 OFFLINE   deocder

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Posted 28 January 2011 - 11:28 AM

Thanks for everyone's input. So if I stay standard def for now, I can get the modulated signals to pass through by using deplexing. I need to check to see what type of dish is installed to see if high def is even an option, correct? Can anyone figure out why there were BSF's installed? Running a second line to each location is not an option at the moment, that would be a serious project. Therefore I am trying to make this work with the existing cabling...

BTW, the modulated inputs are from cctv cameras and a computer (yes I'm ok with the poor resolution from the computer). Interesting that the signals going into the channel plus modular are in color but when it shows up on the tv's they are black and white...

#14 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 28 January 2011 - 12:50 PM

Thanks for everyone's input. So if I stay standard def for now, I can get the modulated signals to pass through by using deplexing. I need to check to see what type of dish is installed to see if high def is even an option, correct? Can anyone figure out why there were BSF's installed? Running a second line to each location is not an option at the moment, that would be a serious project. Therefore I am trying to make this work with the existing cabling...

BTW, the modulated inputs are from cctv cameras and a computer (yes I'm ok with the poor resolution from the computer). Interesting that the signals going into the channel plus modular are in color but when it shows up on the tv's they are black and white...

"The Bandstop filter blocks 475 to 625 MHz, which is needed to block the DECA signal from over powering the tuner."

#15 OFFLINE   dsw2112

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Posted 28 January 2011 - 12:58 PM

Who installed the setup for you?
SL3-Slimline to SWM16 - DECA
HR34-700, HR24-500, & HR22-100

#16 OFFLINE   dsw2112

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Posted 28 January 2011 - 01:00 PM

"The Bandstop filter blocks 475 to 625 MHz, which is needed to block the DECA signal from over powering the tuner."


Yes, but he doesn't have a SWM setup so it's curious why they're there.
SL3-Slimline to SWM16 - DECA
HR34-700, HR24-500, & HR22-100

#17 OFFLINE   carl6

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Posted 28 January 2011 - 01:07 PM

Interesting that the signals going into the channel plus modular are in color but when it shows up on the tv's they are black and white...


A number of possible causes. Slightly off channel, insufficient component video level signal into the modulator, insufficient rf modulated signal out of the modulators (especially when you are mixing/combining several then feeding through a distribution system like you are).

I'm mixing the output of six dual-channel channel plus modulators and doing whole-home distribution of that, and it works fine, with color. However I'm not diplexing - this is all on dedicated coax.

#18 OFFLINE   deocder

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 08:59 AM

I was able to get the modulated signal through to all TV's over the weekend. I just cant figure out why everything is in black and white. I believe its a problem with the channel plus since it's black and white directly out of the box even before going into the distribution.

The setup was installed by an electritian who apparently didn't really understand how to wire the system properly...




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