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Installation/Upgrade Experience


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10 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   acheriff

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Posted 20 March 2011 - 11:24 AM

I took the plunge and updated to SWiM this weekend.

I had done a lot of reading on these forums to get an understanding of what was going to need to happen.

My pre-upgrade equipment consisted of four receivers: HR20, HR22, HR24, and old Philips DirecTivo. On the order, I had requested an R22 as the swap for the Tivo in anticipation of upgrading that viewing location to HD.

The installer was a very nice gentleman who was very patient with me since I knew enough to be dangerous and wanted to use all of my existing buried coax. runs. As predicted, I got a SWiM LNB and green label splitter.

It is interesting though that he was pretty misinformed or the DirecTV party line forces them into some non-helpful dogma.

First, he was adamant that no rg-59 could be in play anywhere in the SWiM set-up. I told him I believed this was untrue except for the run that delivered the power.

Second, he didn't even want to use the existing rg6 runs saying that only the new (?"vision") rg6 cable was certified by DirecTV. He ultimately yielded on that point.

Third, he talked me into believing that the R22 could neither be upgraded to HD nor work with whole home DVR. I was confident that he was wrong, but ultimately got nervous and decided to just decline the R22 and instead mirror that viewing location from one of the other receivers.

Lastly, he connected the broadband deca to an ethernet coming out of a wireless bridge, rather than another ethernet run coming straight out of a switch. This works, but seems to have been not ideal.

My overwhelming sense is that DirecTV must put a great deal of pressure on the technicians to only install under "ideal" conditions so as not to create ongoing support burdens. This, of course, makes sense.

Overall, I'm happy with the work, but thankful for the forums to really know the score.

My only question: If I decide to move the broadband deca, can it make use of a coax run that has rg-59?

Edited by acheriff, 20 March 2011 - 11:35 AM.


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#2 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 20 March 2011 - 11:28 AM

sure. DECA is low enough that RG-59 will work fine.
A.K.A VOS

#3 OFFLINE   RobertE

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Posted 20 March 2011 - 12:03 PM

1) If the job gets QC'ed, it will fail for using RG-59. So that will count against his stats, which can affect a number of thing$ for him. From everything from backcharge$ to job $ecurity, to hi$ daily route.

2) Some locations are on a witch hunt against any cable thats not solid copper. See #1 above.

3) That he was incorrect on. The R22 will support HD as long as there is another HD box on the account. It will NOT however be considered an HD receiver for replacement purposes. So if it croaks, it may be replaced with an R16.
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#4 OFFLINE   BattleZone

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Posted 20 March 2011 - 04:14 PM

RobertE is, as usual, right on. While RG59 does and will work fine (SWM was designed with its limitations in mind), that isn't the same thing as DirecTV allowing their HSP techs to use it. With so many techs and so many who don't know (or care) about when TO and when NOT TO use, say, RG59, DirecTV makes one rule that says "RG6 ONLY" and techs have to follow it or risk a big backcharge and lowered pay and routing rank.

And while this seems dumb, most of the time it is to the customer's benefit. Not too many years ago, there were virtually ZERO standards enforced for installs, and as a result, most installs were HORRIBLE. Today, standards are very high (though, still, not always met), and as a result, system reliability is much higher and more customers are happy and satisfied.

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#5 OFFLINE   acheriff

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Posted 20 March 2011 - 04:35 PM

Thanks all. This is very helpful. The technician actually did a very good job of expressing the fact that there was a distinction between what might work and what he is allowed to do based on installation standards.

I did not want to bully him into doing something that would reflect poorly on his installation record or ranking. I do get the need to minimize conditions that might cause a long-term support burden.

One follow-up:

I know that the HR20-100 is the one HD DVR that has the funky SWiM installation method, but I had thought that this was not true of the HR20-700.

The installer did the following:

Split the SWiM output at the receiver with a green label 1x2 splitter and ran one into the deca with its output to tuner 1 and the other into tuner 2.

This seems unnecessary for the HR20-700. It is working, though, and passes the system tests.

If I'm right can I just remove the splitter and connect the deca output directly to tuner 1?

Many thanks for the feedback!

#6 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 20 March 2011 - 04:41 PM

Thanks all. This is very helpful. The technician actually did a very good job of expressing the fact that there was a distinction between what might work and what he is allowed to do based on installation standards.

I did not want to bully him into doing something that would reflect poorly on his installation record or ranking. I do get the need to minimize conditions that might cause a long-term support burden.

One follow-up:

I know that the HR20-100 is the one HD DVR that has the funky SWiM installation method, but I had thought that this was not true of the HR20-700.

The installer did the following:

Split the SWiM output at the receiver with a green label 1x2 splitter and ran one into the deca with its output to tuner 1 and the other into tuner 2.

This seems unnecessary for the HR20-700. It is working, though, and passes the system tests.

If I'm right can I just remove the splitter and connect the deca output directly to tuner 1?

Many thanks for the feedback!

The -700 shouldn't have been done that way, and I didn't even know it would work that way.
DECA connected to SAT #1 and the coax to the DECA.
A.K.A VOS

#7 OFFLINE   acheriff

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Posted 20 March 2011 - 06:08 PM

I de-installed the splitter and the second input into sat 2 on the -700 and all is well. Thanks, again.

OK, last question (hopefully) before I give it a rest...

From looking at all the set-up diagrams posted I had envisioned that the power inverter was a dedicated coax run to the splitter (kind of like the old coax power adapters for pre-SWIM powered multi-switches).

However, looking at my install makes me think that the single coax run to my inverter is both sending power to the lnb and sending a sat output to one of my receivers.

I'm sure I'm using the term incorrectly, but almost like "diplexing" the power run.

Is this right? It sure would explain for me why I couldn't get the count of outputs on my splitter to match what I thought would happen if I needed a dedicated coax run to the PI.

#8 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 20 March 2011 - 06:22 PM

The PI [power inserter] sends DC to the SWiM. It also has a "back end" that sends out the RF to DECAs and/or receivers for the SAT signal.
I've got my PI right in the middle of my coax, with splitters on either side/end feeding receivers.
A.K.A VOS

#9 OFFLINE   BattleZone

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Posted 21 March 2011 - 08:29 AM

There are a number of ways to hook up the PI, and not all of them will have the PI on a dedicated line. It works fine either way.

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#10 OFFLINE   acheriff

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Posted 21 March 2011 - 10:04 AM

Thanks all. You guys are a tremendous resource.

I read in the installation images forum that having the PI too close to the receiver or DECA can cause problems.

Is it OK to have only a 2-3 inch coax connector between the PI and the DECA which in turn is only inches away from the receiver?

#11 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 21 March 2011 - 10:48 AM

Thanks all. You guys are a tremendous resource.

I read in the installation images forum that having the PI too close to the receiver or DECA can cause problems.

Is it OK to have only a 2-3 inch coax connector between the PI and the DECA which in turn is only inches away from the receiver?

"That image" is only for the H/HR24, and even then, not all have the problem.
The DC block in the PI seems to have an "odd" impedance for some devices, which can be resolved with either a splitter or a long [15'] coax. Some other [same] devices don't have this problem.
A.K.A VOS




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