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>>> DirecTV does NOT promise any specific model of receiver! <<<


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#226 OFFLINE   Laxguy

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 10:33 AM

When a customer interacts with an employee of a company, any company, that employee IS the company to that customer.


Quite true, and it's important. However, it doesn't mean that employee can bind the company.

Extreme example: Employee of ABCD luxury cars agrees to swap a new car when the brakelight goes out. Or two for one, or free etc. etc.
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#227 OFFLINE   Laxguy

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 10:39 AM

But D* CSRs are promising that a certain model of DVR will be installed. Common sense says that's within their authority even though it is technically not. And that's where the problem lies.


Well, yes, but first it's a small number of CSRs. And a small number of customers who really insist on an HR24. So it's a problem that's manageable, and wouldn't exist if customers informed themselves fully [as well as CSRs undergoing additional training.]
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#228 ONLINE   Mike Bertelson

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 12:18 PM

When a customer interacts with an employee of a company, any company, that employee IS the company to that customer.

It may be the perception but is not the legal reality.

Mike

Edited by Mike Bertelson, 07 June 2011 - 12:24 PM.

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#229 OFFLINE   Shades228

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 03:40 PM

1. If the CSR can't ever make a binding promise, why am I giving a complete stranger my CC information? Why does a third party review the order and have me do things that clearly indicate a verbal agreement has been reached? I assume a D* CSR has the authority to set up an installation. I assume that billing has the authority to help resolve billing disputes.


Because you choose to give them your CC. You don't have to you can pay online. The website doesn't make a binding promise to you does it? A third party verifies the order so that they can say they added another place where your agreement is covered.

I assume that retention has the authority to cancel my service (part of my TWC lawsuit). Retention also seems to offer deals "above and beyond" the average deals. But if they promise me a year's worth of free Showtime to stay as long as I sign a one-year agreement, and I never get free Showtime, should I be charged an ETF for leaving?


Yes if they offered to fix the issue and give you what you agreed to.

2. There is usually no written agreement between the time you first contact a CSR and the the time the installer leaves. If they buy it at Best Buy, there is a written agreement. But without a signature, there is only a verbal agreement. Unless you mean we're verbally agreeing to the written agreement. Isn't that circular logic?


Installers provide, or are required, the paperwork and have you sign it when appropriate.

3. Most calls are recorded NOW. Did you ever wonder WHY? I do assume the CSR who promised something they should not have gets fired. But where does that leave my agreement with D*? Should I get charged any fees for changing my mind once the error has been discovered? And it isn't like the D* CSR is promising me free D* stock with a DVR purchase. Common sense says they can't do that. But D* CSRs are promising that a certain model of DVR will be installed. Common sense says that's within their authority even though it is technically not. And that's where the problem lies.


They tell you why calls are recorded. They are done so for quality purposes just like any company. You assume a lot in your post. The problem doesn't exist in your assumption of common sense it stems from someone doing something they shouldn't for whatever reason they did.

#230 OFFLINE   NR4P

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 04:33 PM

I don't think most calls are recorded. I live in Florida where it's absolutely illegal to record audio without all parties consent. When I call in, I am not informed of any recordings and given any option to call a non recorded line.

That aside for a moment, even when something is recorded, storing, cataloging them and retrieving them is no small task.

#231 OFFLINE   Shades228

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 05:03 PM

I don't think most calls are recorded. I live in Florida where it's absolutely illegal to record audio without all parties consent. When I call in, I am not informed of any recordings and given any option to call a non recorded line.

That aside for a moment, even when something is recorded, storing, cataloging them and retrieving them is no small task.


You're told at the beginning of the call when it's transfering you to a department. You aren't given the option to call a non recording number you just hang up if you don't agree.

#232 OFFLINE   Laxguy

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 05:16 PM

You're told at the beginning of the call when it's transfering you to a department. You aren't given the option to call a non recording number you just hang up if you don't agree.


Do some folks actually have a problem with a business transaction being recorded? (When they've been informed that is.)
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#233 OFFLINE   wingrider01

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 04:54 AM

When a customer interacts with an employee of a company, any company, that employee IS the company to that customer.


a representative of the company with no powers outside of what is mandated and stated by the company - unless their job description gives them enough authority to modify or ignore company mandates then they are not able to make ANY promises that are legally binding to the company.

#234 OFFLINE   SWORDFISH

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 01:35 AM

Well, yes, but first it's a small number of CSRs. And a small number of customers who really insist on an HR24. So it's a problem that's manageable, and wouldn't exist if customers informed themselves fully [as well as CSRs undergoing additional training.]


Excluding the majority of posters here, how do most people inform themselves ?
.............call customer service.


SF
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#235 OFFLINE   bobcamp1

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 07:55 AM

Because you choose to give them your CC. You don't have to you can pay online. The website doesn't make a binding promise to you does it? A third party verifies the order so that they can say they added another place where your agreement is covered.

Yes if they offered to fix the issue and give you what you agreed to.

Installers provide, or are required, the paperwork and have you sign it when appropriate.

They tell you why calls are recorded. They are done so for quality purposes just like any company. You assume a lot in your post. The problem doesn't exist in your assumption of common sense it stems from someone doing something they shouldn't for whatever reason they did.


You dodged all my questions. None of your answers address what happens when a CSR or someone at D* with authority does something they shouldn't do, and later D* refuses to honor it.

I think all that should happen is that any agreements should be dissolved, don't charge the customer any fee or penalty to cancel, and both parties go on their merry way.

FYI, the website DOES constitute a written agreement as you have to click a confirmation button, but if you call there is no written agreement until the installer shows up.

Finally, the problem with common sense is that violating it gets you into a lot of trouble at a jury trial.

#236 OFFLINE   bobcamp1

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 08:10 AM

a representative of the company with no powers outside of what is mandated and stated by the company - unless their job description gives them enough authority to modify or ignore company mandates then they are not able to make ANY promises that are legally binding to the company.


My only addition to that is if something is reasonably within the representative's realm of authority, then that promise could be legally binding regardless of company mandates. Another way to look at it is how a jury would rule if the case ever went to trial.

It is odd that a CSR who has the authority to order equipment, even different types of equipment, does not have the authority to order a specific model. If they do not have the authority, they need to immediately state that whenever such an attempt is made by the customer. D* just needs to add it to their script and/or need to emphasize it more in their training.

#237 OFFLINE   RunnerFL

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 08:22 AM

It is odd that a CSR who has the authority to order equipment, even different types of equipment, does not have the ability to order a specific model.


Fixed that for you...
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#238 OFFLINE   Joe C

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 11:33 AM

I think it would be cheaper for Directv to just give the customer the DVR they request the first time around. Just recently I added a HDDVR to my account. I called Directv and asked for one. I asked about the HR24. The CSR told me I would most likely get one as I had 2 other HR24s and MRV. Yes, I know the policy but I figured I'll play the game and see what shows up on the doorstep. I said great, I'll take it and paid $125($99 for the DVR + tax and shipping). The next day I get a HR21 with b band converters instead of a Deca module. I imediately call to complain. They agree to refund the entire $125 to my credit card upon return of the HR21. I also get a $100 credit towards the HR24 that I want. I have called a total of 5 times to different departments to get credits authorized and to make sure that they actually get posted to my account. I really think it would have been cheaper for Directv if the man/woman in the warehouse just went to the pallet with the HR24s a pulled one for me. After all someone is handling the equipment and repackaging things as the HR21 came to me with a sealed bag of accessories such as b band converters.

#239 OFFLINE   Shades228

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 03:23 PM

You dodged all my questions. None of your answers address what happens when a CSR or someone at D* with authority does something they shouldn't do, and later D* refuses to honor it.

I think all that should happen is that any agreements should be dissolved, don't charge the customer any fee or penalty to cancel, and both parties go on their merry way.

FYI, the website DOES constitute a written agreement as you have to click a confirmation button, but if you call there is no written agreement until the installer shows up.

Finally, the problem with common sense is that violating it gets you into a lot of trouble at a jury trial.



You answered your own question of what happens if DIRECTV refuses to honor what that person said. The answer is nothing unless you choose to do something else.

You say words like think and assume and you somehow believe that it would translate to something with in a law.

The confirmation button is there to ensure that you double check what you entered because it's going to happen. Imagine if you just entered the amount and then it processed it the instance you clicked out of that field.

If you think our legal system is common sense then perhaps you should read some legal cases or become a lawyer. What you're really doing is arguing because it's how you want it to be. Just because you want something to be a certain way doesn't mean it's going to be that nor does it mean that it's going to be that way.

Companies would never absolve an agreement because of misinformation, because then people would just make stuff up to try and get out of it. People also like to hear what they want to hear rather than what is being said.

For instance someone saying "You'll get an advanced HD DVR" most of the time equates to you'll get a NIB HR 24.

#240 OFFLINE   bobcamp1

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 03:57 PM

You answered your own question of what happens if DIRECTV refuses to honor what that person said. The answer is nothing unless you choose to do something else.

You say words like think and assume and you somehow believe that it would translate to something with in a law.

The confirmation button is there to ensure that you double check what you entered because it's going to happen. Imagine if you just entered the amount and then it processed it the instance you clicked out of that field.

If you think our legal system is common sense then perhaps you should read some legal cases or become a lawyer. What you're really doing is arguing because it's how you want it to be. Just because you want something to be a certain way doesn't mean it's going to be that nor does it mean that it's going to be that way.

Companies would never absolve an agreement because of misinformation, because then people would just make stuff up to try and get out of it. People also like to hear what they want to hear rather than what is being said.

For instance someone saying "You'll get an advanced HD DVR" most of the time equates to you'll get a NIB HR 24.


I've already done something very similar to this in court and won. The legal system itself isn't common sense at all, but common sense is often used during jury trials and civil trials in general. Juries don't understand the law, but they understand common sense. Well, most of them do anyway. That's why companies now put arbitration clauses in their contracts. An arbitrator is much more likely to follow the law than common sense.

Stores often honor agreements that do not favor them if there has been evidence of a misunderstanding. If the stock boy, who has no authority to set prices, accidentally puts something on sale, a manager (who does have authority) will allow the discounted price to keep you as a customer. However, the manager is also responsible for the stock boy performing his job properly. If there is a trend of the store marking things on sale when they are not and the manager does NOT honor those prices, that's false advertising and against the law. So the manager is also honoring the discounted price to cover his you-know-what.

Some people were promised a DVR with a 500 GB hard drive. Some were promised an HR-24. This thread says that the CSR cannot do that. If you want avoid all kinds of headaches, be aware of it.

#241 OFFLINE   bobcamp1

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 04:02 PM

It is odd that a CSR who has the authority to order equipment, even different types of equipment, does not have the authority to order a specific model.


Fixed that for you...


I don't care what their ability is. It's a computer system ... fix it. You can't defend yourself with a flawed computer system. ("I'm sorry your honor, but our system does not allow us to issue checks for billing errors. We'll be happy to give him the $10,000 in credit due to our billing error....")

Plus, some CSRs (in retention) apparently *DO* have this ability, perhaps because they also have the authority. Or do they not have the authority but are allowed to do it anyway?

#242 OFFLINE   RunnerFL

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 05:41 PM

I don't care what their ability is. It's a computer system ... fix it.


It's not broken. It's specifically designed the way DirecTV wants it, there's nothing to fix.
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#243 OFFLINE   wingrider01

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 06:20 PM

I don't care what their ability is. It's a computer system ... fix it. You can't defend yourself with a flawed computer system. ("I'm sorry your honor, but our system does not allow us to issue checks for billing errors. We'll be happy to give him the $10,000 in credit due to our billing error....")

Plus, some CSRs (in retention) apparently *DO* have this ability, perhaps because they also have the authority. Or do they not have the authority but are allowed to do it anyway?


retention is not a tier 1 csr, so it is logical that they have additional abilities then front line tier 1 csr's.

#244 OFFLINE   Shades228

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 07:32 PM

I don't care what their ability is. It's a computer system ... fix it. You can't defend yourself with a flawed computer system. ("I'm sorry your honor, but our system does not allow us to issue checks for billing errors. We'll be happy to give him the $10,000 in credit due to our billing error....")

Plus, some CSRs (in retention) apparently *DO* have this ability, perhaps because they also have the authority. Or do they not have the authority but are allowed to do it anyway?


See RunnerFL's response to "fixing" the sytem. Retention reps cannot order a specific receiver. That's the whole point of this thread.

It's not broken. It's specifically designed the way DirecTV wants it, there's nothing to fix.


+1

retention is not a tier 1 csr, so it is logical that they have additional abilities then front line tier 1 csr's.


Again they cannot do so so just because they're answering disconnect requests doesn't mean anything when it comes down to how DIRECTV intentionally has setup their order and inventory management.

The bottom line is any agent that you speak with when you call in to customer care cannot guarantee a model number, with exceptions of replacement receiver rules built into the system, and if someone did get a model number they were "promised" it was a 20% chance they got lucky on.

I'm not sure why it's a difficult concept. If you want a specific model don't call DIRECTV go through an online dealer. Fighting the system will get you nothing but frustration. If you want to change DIRECTV's policies then become the next CEO.

#245 OFFLINE   wingrider01

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 06:47 AM


Again they cannot do so so just because they're answering disconnect requests doesn't mean anything when it comes down to how DIRECTV intentionally has setup their order and inventory management.

The bottom line is any agent that you speak with when you call in to customer care cannot guarantee a model number, with exceptions of replacement receiver rules built into the system, and if someone did get a model number they were "promised" it was a 20% chance they got lucky on.

I'm not sure why it's a difficult concept. If you want a specific model don't call DIRECTV go through an online dealer. Fighting the system will get you nothing but frustration. If you want to change DIRECTV's policies then become the next CEO.


Have never gone through Directv to get the recievers, not worth my time to play csr roulete to get a discount on the cost of the device, bought all my devices when I installed back years ago before they went to the lease model, have the PP so they get replaced with units that are flagged owned

retention is not a tier 1 custoemr service level, they have a lot more abilities and less restrictions then the front line service personnel, just like the access card people do, now those iI have dealt with a lot because the majority of my units are owned and not lease.

Bottom line - want a specific reciever, tighten the belt and go to a outside source and play the full price for the lease, want a discounted price, call direct tv and negotiate with them, but take what they give you. Also - if you screw the installers by ordering, having them come out and refuse the service call becasue they don't have the reciever you want on their truck then those people sould pay for the service call if they turn them away.

This is not Burger King you don;t get it the way you want it

#246 OFFLINE   subeluvr

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 03:41 PM

Fighting the system will get you nothing but frustration. If you want to change DIRECTV's policies then become the next CEO.


Just having run the obstacle course at DTV regarding a specific receiver model that I was promised numerous times by different DTV agents at different levels here are the facts...

No 1st tier CSR or TSA or supervisor or retention agent or case manager has the ability to place an order for a specific version of any DTV receiver. Regardless of what they tell you or promise you that option does not exist on their computer screen. It is that simple.

A note requesting a specific model can be made on the order and smart installers who like being tipped are smart to call the customer when they are at the warehouse and give the customer a choice of what is available. When you get treated right by an installer treat them right... it really is a good investment

An order for a specific model of a DTV receiver can be placed but only at the highest level and only on rare occasion and it is quite involved so it is rarely done. It is so rarely done that few people know that it can be done.

The thing is that DTV agents at every level seem to indicate that it can and will be done but make no notes in the customer's account so they can not be held accountable when the customer blows his/her top.

There is only one reality in this discussion that everyone has to get their head around... DirecTV does not exist for the convenience of the customer... the customer exists for the convenience of DirecTV

This is today's business model and DirecTV is not the only company using it. If you don't like it, and you shouldn't, then you have to vote with your wallet because that is the only language corporate America understands... market share and P&L, and corporate America will listen... sooner or later :rolleyes:

UPDATE: As it turns out, even an assurance from the highest executive level (that customers can get to) that a specific model of a receiver will be shipped doesn't make it happen. The wrong model arrived today.

Edited by subeluvr, 19 June 2011 - 02:49 PM.


#247 OFFLINE   tCdragon

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Posted 22 June 2011 - 02:41 AM

I have worked both in the call center and now in the field, there is no way to guarantee what model you will get or if it will be new or a refurbished. When i get the equipment for the day we get what they give us. Sometimes we will have hr24s and others hr21s. So if a csr says the can guarantee you a specific model don't believe it. Your going to get what you get or you can reschedule your install or upgrade and hope that we have what you want next time.

#248 OFFLINE   TheJ3RK

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Posted 19 July 2011 - 12:34 PM

Wow. 10 pages.

#249 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 19 July 2011 - 02:19 PM

Wow. 10 pages.


Of redundancy...:lol:

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#250 OFFLINE   hombresoto

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Posted 19 July 2011 - 02:51 PM

I 'guarantee' that my customers get HR24s by refusing to accept any less in my bi-weekly trip for inventory. I also am subject to chargebacks so it is in MY best interest to not install a 5 year old DVR. I also do not get a 'pre-bundled' truckload of equipment each week like HSP employees. My principal loads up a couple of times a week and I go to his warehouse and pick the models I want. I ask before I go to load up if 24s are available. If not I have them delivered.
And no, I am not taking any of those H20's or , believe it or not, the D10s that crept their way back into the refurb cycle a couple of years ago.
It is that simple in my situation... My customers are happy to get good equipment and I am happy to not install equipment that may or may not fail in the first 90 days, or work out of the box for that matter...
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