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>>> DirecTV does NOT promise any specific model of receiver! <<<


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#51 OFFLINE   ndole

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Posted 15 April 2011 - 07:33 PM

The policy (when it comes to truck rolls) is to replace like for like [or newer]. Obviously with the inventory system being what it is, we have what's on the truck, and there's nothing we can do about that. So that physically can't always be the case, but it is the guideline. There is consideration taken as to the replacement model in the field.
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#52 OFFLINE   liquidctv

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 02:17 PM

So how do you explain to a customer why they have to pay up-front for a leased receiver? Is it because it would be more expensive otherwise? Like, do HD-DVRs cost $500 to manufacture?

The couple of times I compared it to a leased car, it just made them angry.

Also, does DirecTV guarantee replacements for failed equipment? The contract terms and the existence of protection plan seems to imply that in some cases, you could be s.o.l. if your receiver dies.

#53 OFFLINE   Beerstalker

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 02:30 PM

The up front lease is the only lease you pay on the receiver. If you weren't leasing the receiver the up front cost would be closer to $500 for an owned HD-DVR. Here's a refurbished owned receiver for $430.
http://www.solidsign...1PRO)&c=DIRECTV

Yes defective leased receivers get replaced for free with another leased receiver. Without the protection plan you are supposed to pay $20 for shipping, but sometimes you can get that waived too. These replacements do not require a new 2 year agreement, although sometimes the CSRs mess up and activate them incorrectly. If you have a 2 year agreement started incorrectly you will have to deal with them to get it removed and it can take some work to do so (usually emailing Ellen's office gets it fixed pretty quickly though).

DirecTV does not guarantee that you will get the same exact model as a replacement though. For example if you have an HR23 you could end up with an HR21 as a replacement. They do however try to replace HR20s with HR20s if you tell them that you use OTA, and they supposedly try to replace HR24s with HR24s if you have Whole Home DVR on your account.
Sometimes when I reflect back on all the beer I drink I feel ashamed. Then I look into the glass and think about the workers in the brewery and all of their hopes and dreams. If I didn’t drink this beer, they might be out of work and their dreams would be shattered. Then I say to myself, "It is better that I drink this beer and let their dreams come true than be selfish and worry about my liver."
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#54 OFFLINE   liquidctv

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 04:19 PM

>Yes defective leased receivers get replaced for free with another leased receiver. Without the protection plan you are supposed to pay $20 for shipping, but sometimes you can get that waived too.

Good info bro, ty.

#55 OFFLINE   BattleZone

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 09:21 PM

It's instructive to note that, back in the day when the HR10-250 MPEG2-only HD TiVo first came out, and for about 2 years afterwards, the cost for that HD-DVR was $999! Obviously, you owned it at that price, but customers had to cough up a grand UP-FRONT to get an HD-DVR. Eventually the price came down to $699, and finally, once everyone already knew that HD would require MPEG4, and the HR20 was about to be released, they dropped the price down to $399 to get rid of them. Yes, that $399 was a CLEARANCE PRICE for an about-to-be-obsolete HD-DVR.

Currently, an HD-TiVo v3 is $449 on sale (normally $499), and it can't even work with satellite. So, yes, $499 is a very realistic price of what an HR2x would cost if DirecTV was selling them outright. Of course, you'd always get a new one, but who wants to pay $500 upfront PER HD-DVR, only to have a new model come out in a year and have no one wanting the old one (value drops big time)? Ask iPad owners how this works.

DirecTV's system is a benefit for the vast majority of people, and has greatly increased HD adoption and up-take on the other advanced features that require HD-DVRs. Sure, a few people may not be as happy as they could be, but if you tried to go back to $500 "owned" HD-DVRs, you'd find that far more people would be upset.

Plus, the $500 owned HD-DVR is still fully available if you want it: just call DirecTV, ask for the Access Card department, and tell them you want to order a brand new HR24 to OWN, and they can set you right up. What's that? You don't want to pay that much? Exactly.

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#56 OFFLINE   dirtyblueshirt

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 09:54 PM

I was promised an HRMC57-9000 and got an HR22-100 instead. I feel cheated.








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#57 OFFLINE   Sim-X

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 07:53 AM

What a bad system they have. They make you sign a 2 year deal, pay up front costs to get everything installed and you can't even pick a model number. Imagine going to the car dealership, signing a 2 year lease and they just give you whatever car they see fit. Giving people garbage pos refurb boxes when you are paying up front lease costs and signing a 2 year contract is just outrageous. Most people could care less what model they get, so why not let the few of us who want certain models just get them. DirecTV needs to seriously rethink how they distribute boxes. I can't tell you how many times I have read posts with people being upset on what boxes they got. Now if you are getting the boxes for free, fine they have a case. When they are charging you $200 a box? Give me a break, they way they run it is an absolute joke.

#58 OFFLINE   dirtyblueshirt

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 08:11 AM

What a bad system they have. They make you sign a 2 year deal, pay up front costs to get everything installed and you can't even pick a model number. Imagine going to the car dealership, signing a 2 year lease and they just give you whatever car they see fit. Giving people garbage pos refurb boxes when you are paying up front lease costs and signing a 2 year contract is just outrageous. Most people could care less what model they get, so why not let the few of us who want certain models just get them. DirecTV needs to seriously rethink how they distribute boxes. I can't tell you how many times I have read posts with people being upset on what boxes they got. Now if you are getting the boxes for free, fine they have a case. When they are charging you $200 a box? Give me a break, they way they run it is an absolute joke.


You do understand that DirecTV is not the only company doing this, right? Cable companies are also prime offenders of this. I've seen Scientific Atlanta boxes from Cox here in San Diego that are in far worse "refurbished" shape that the worst refurb DirecTV box I've ever seen. Plus, Cox charges over $17 for the HD DVR (plus service) per month, and that's just their basic HD DVR with no MRV and a 250GB Hard Drive. DirecTV isn't "scamming" people, they're just in line with everyone else.
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#59 OFFLINE   Sim-X

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 09:29 AM

You do understand that DirecTV is not the only company doing this, right? Cable companies are also prime offenders of this. I've seen Scientific Atlanta boxes from Cox here in San Diego that are in far worse "refurbished" shape that the worst refurb DirecTV box I've ever seen. Plus, Cox charges over $17 for the HD DVR (plus service) per month, and that's just their basic HD DVR with no MRV and a 250GB Hard Drive. DirecTV isn't "scamming" people, they're just in line with everyone else.

First off cable doesn't make you sign a 2 year bit unless your doing some price promo bundle. On or off contract they don't charge up front lease fees for equipment. When I had comcast I wanted the new moto dcx box. I brought my old box in to local office, walked out with a new one. They could care less. Sure maybe I got lucky but still they aren't charging people $200 PER BOX and then make people sign a 2 year deal just to give it back when you quit.

DirecTV can do whatever they want, it's just the way they do things right now is bad business.

#60 OFFLINE   spartanstew

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 10:19 AM

What a bad system they have. They make you sign a 2 year deal, pay up front costs to get everything installed and you can't even pick a model number. Imagine going to the car dealership, signing a 2 year lease and they just give you whatever car they see fit. Giving people garbage pos refurb boxes when you are paying up front lease costs and signing a 2 year contract is just outrageous. Most people could care less what model they get, so why not let the few of us who want certain models just get them. DirecTV needs to seriously rethink how they distribute boxes. I can't tell you how many times I have read posts with people being upset on what boxes they got. Now if you are getting the boxes for free, fine they have a case. When they are charging you $200 a box? Give me a break, they way they run it is an absolute joke.


Seriously? That argument again?

It is COMPLETELY different. Car leases are for a specific length of time and have value at the end.

Although it's also different, it's closer to a Car rental (but no upfront fee). You sign up for a certain car CLASS, and that's what you get.

You (and I) might not agree with the way they do it, but it makes very good business sense, and if I were in charge (or you), it would probably work the same way.

I'm sure Directv can't wait to get their hands on your unit.

 
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#61 OFFLINE   matt

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 10:28 AM

You know, it is very much like a car rental. They have different classes; compact, midsize, full. D* had SD, DVR, HD, HD DVR. The rental car quits working, you get one of the same size that drives fine but doesn't have glossy paint and has a big dent in the door for no cost. The IRD quits working and you get one of the same class that works fine but has a matte finish instead of glossy and scratch in the lid for no cost (or maybe shipping).

Nobody has yet to convince me that free replacement of a relatively short lifespan piece of electronics any time that you need it is bad customer service. You aren't required to pay for any kind of extended warranty, and many times they will waive the shipping charge for you. Sure, you pay $199 and agree to 2 years of service to get in the door, but once you have the unit you are guaranteed to have a working one for as long as you want to have it. What other company offers that?
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#62 OFFLINE   Laxguy

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 11:05 AM

+1 [Matt]

Plus BZ reminds us that some of us paid big bucks for units we owned but became rather obsolete with the switch to MPEG4.....
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#63 OFFLINE   Mike Bertelson

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 11:17 AM

First off cable doesn't make you sign a 2 year bit unless your doing some price promo bundle. On or off contract they don't charge up front lease fees for equipment. When I had comcast I wanted the new moto dcx box. I brought my old box in to local office, walked out with a new one. They could care less. Sure maybe I got lucky but still they aren't charging people $200 PER BOX and then make people sign a 2 year deal just to give it back when you quit.

DirecTV can do whatever they want, it's just the way they do things right now is bad business.

I disagree with your argument because even with the upfront cost it’s actually cheaper over time with DirecTV. Especially if you only have one receiver, there is no monthly fee...I’m just sayin’ :grin:

While they don’t usually charge an upfront fee, Comcast, here at least, wants to charge me $56.80/mo for hardware (3 HD/DVRs and 1 HD receiver, matches what I have now).

With DirecTV I pay $18/mo but with Comcast it's $38/mo more. No upfront cost but someone would have paid more than twice in hardware costs with Comcast then a similar DirecTV new customer promo (currently DirecTV's website lists one free HD DVR and one HD receiver).

Twice the money and your are more likely to get used/refrub equipment with Comcast as a new customer than with DirecTV. A friend down the street went from Dish to Comcast and both of his “new” receivers were refurbs...both of them. :nono:

IIRC, this has been the way cable has done it for...well as least as far back as when I first had cable in 1981 so I don’t understand why it’s a big deal. :shrug:

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#64 OFFLINE   ndole

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 11:18 AM

Precisely. Would you rather pay $500 for the new boxes, that have the same reliability, the same rate of failure, and then be stuck holding the bill every time one goes bad? Keep in mind that they will ALL fail eventually, for one reason or another.
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#65 OFFLINE   Beerstalker

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 12:53 PM

Not to mention a lot of the time you don't even have to pay any lease fees for the equipment, or you get deals on how much you have to pay. For example I think new subscribers right now can get one HD-DVR and 2 HD receivers for free. No lease fees at all.

Then, at least in my experience, it is pretty easy to add an additional HD receiver for free each once year, or get a $100 discount on a HD-DVR once each year.

I know when I first signed up I was able to get 2 HD-DVRs for $99 each, and one standard receiver for free. Since then I've added another HD receiver and another HD-DVR, and haven't paid anything for either of them.
Sometimes when I reflect back on all the beer I drink I feel ashamed. Then I look into the glass and think about the workers in the brewery and all of their hopes and dreams. If I didn’t drink this beer, they might be out of work and their dreams would be shattered. Then I say to myself, "It is better that I drink this beer and let their dreams come true than be selfish and worry about my liver."
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#66 OFFLINE   bobcamp1

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 02:11 PM

Sure, you pay $199 and agree to 2 years of service to get in the door, but once you have the unit you are guaranteed to have a working one for as long as you want to have it. What other company offers that?


Actually, everybody does. And most of them do it without an upfront lease fee or an extra commitment. And instead of charging $20 to ship their own broken box back, you get a free service call instead.

The problem with D* is if you have the DVR a month or two and decide you don't like it. The benefit is that it is cheaper.

#67 OFFLINE   Beerstalker

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 02:25 PM

Dish Network makes you pay up front for the recievers too.

Cable companies don't charge up front but they charge you large monthly rental fees that add up to way more than the up front lease fee is ever going to cost you. $17/month for 24 months is $408, compared to $199 if you actually had to pay the lease fee up front from DirecTV. Not to mention if you keep the service for more than 2 years you still have to keep paying that $17 to Comcast, where your D* box was paid for long ago.

As far as service calls go most cable companies are charging for them now too, so it's not just the sat companies that are doing that.
Sometimes when I reflect back on all the beer I drink I feel ashamed. Then I look into the glass and think about the workers in the brewery and all of their hopes and dreams. If I didn’t drink this beer, they might be out of work and their dreams would be shattered. Then I say to myself, "It is better that I drink this beer and let their dreams come true than be selfish and worry about my liver."
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#68 OFFLINE   bobcamp1

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 02:35 PM

Nobody has yet to convince me that free replacement of a relatively short lifespan piece of electronics any time that you need it is bad customer service.


Sorry to double-post on your same comment. That's what happens when I type too fast. :grin:

First, it's not free, it's $20. It's their broken equipment -- if they want it back they should pay for shipping or come and pick it up.

I also take issue with anytime you need it. It's not anytime you want it. If one gets a new box and another gets a 5-year-old box, then two years later the boxes will be 2 and 7 years old. The 2 year box is OK. The 7 year old box will be in need of a tech. refresh, yet D* will force another upfront lease fee + 2 yr agreement to replace an old working box with the latest model.

Also, if I start a 2-year agreement with a new box, it will have all the new features. If it breaks within a month and is replaced with a 5-year-old unit, I won't be happy. It won't have all the new features I got used to with the new box. And I can't change providers because of the 2-year commitment. That's borderline fraud.

I like the lease model for DVRs, but why not charge different rates for different levels of DVRs? Those who want the latest box will gladly pay more, and those who don't will be happy to save some money.

#69 OFFLINE   Sim-X

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 02:36 PM

You guys can sit there and defend them all you want. It's a stupid business decision. Is it more profitable for them? Sure but I have read countless posts of very unhappy customers not getting the model they want.

Think if the cell phone companies started doing this. You want a new evo4G and they hand you a refurbished hero instead. Then when your done you have to give it back. It's stupid the way they do it. I assure you DirecTV could easily figure out a way to make sure that the very small % of customers who request a certain model get one. Instead they have some moron that came up with this leasing program who I'm sure gets plenty of extra money in his bank account. So I guess the people who came up with this win.

If you guys think that DirecTV can't figure out a way to give customers the models they want when they are PAYING for them and signing a 2 year bit, then maybe you guys should go apply for a job at DTV so you can help keep the craptastic leasing program alive for years to come. DTV would still make plenty of cash.

How on earth you guys can sit there and justify the way DTV runs the lease program is beyond me. When I call DTV to order another HD-DVR and dishing out $200 bucks, I am going to make sure it's an HR-24 or guess what it's getting refused. You guys that love this policy so much can have all the crap refurb boxes that's just fine by me. More HR24's for the rest of us who think the policy is complete crap.

I'm not arguing that they can't do what they are doing, I'm saying it's a horrible policy that makes a lot of people upset. Let's see, what would make people happy keeping the current policy or letting people request a model they would like. Gee I wonder

#70 OFFLINE   bobcamp1

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 02:40 PM

Dish Network makes you pay up front for the recievers too.

Cable companies don't charge up front but they charge you large monthly rental fees that add up to way more than the up front lease fee is ever going to cost you. $17/month for 24 months is $408, compared to $199 if you actually had to pay the lease fee up front from DirecTV. Not to mention if you keep the service for more than 2 years you still have to keep paying that $17 to Comcast, where your D* box was paid for long ago.

As far as service calls go most cable companies are charging for them now too, so it's not just the sat companies that are doing that.


What's that $7/month DVR fee + $6/month equipment fee D* charges? $13/month + upfront fee + 2 yr agreement vs. $20/month + nothing else. D* is cheaper but not as much as you think.

Plus, companies can't charge for a service call if the reason is leased equipment malfunction. At least they're not SUPPOSED to charge for it. You never know with cable companies....

#71 OFFLINE   Mike Bertelson

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 02:52 PM

You guys can sit there and defend them all you want. It's a stupid business decision. Is it more profitable for them? Sure but I have read countless posts of very unhappy customers not getting the model they want.

<snip>

Referring to the bolded statement, I’ve heard the same thing about other service providers. Maybe things are different where you live, but in my area (CT, RI) both Cox and Comcast will not give the customer choice of receiver/DVR. A guy I work with tried for months to get the DVR with the larger drive (Cox) and they told him that they don't swap working receivers and they don't guarantee which DVR is sent to customer for installation. Just like DirecTV, Cox and Comcast in my area will send out what’s on the shelf. I can’t tell you number of people I know who are complaining about being limited to 40 hours of HD, knowing their company has a DVR with a bigger drive, but they can’t get the one they want (in one case the with Cox in RI the guy is limited to 20 hours...he switched to FiOS).

Maybe in you neck of the woods the service providers have abundant supplies and can guarantee a particular model but I’m pretty sure that’s not how it works in most places. At any rate, for me, no matter which service provider I chose, as far as hardware is concerned I'm the same boat...I'm not sure about Dish.

Mike

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#72 OFFLINE   Sim-X

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 02:59 PM

Referring to the bolded statement, I’ve heard the same thing about other service providers. Maybe things are different where you live, but in my area (CT, RI) both Cox and Comcast will not give the customer choice of receiver/DVR. A guy I work with tried for months to get the DVR with the larger drive (Cox) and they told him that they don't swap working receivers and they don't guarantee which DVR is sent to customer for installation. Just like DirecTV, Cox and Comcast in my area will send out what’s on the shelf. I can’t tell you number of people I know who are complaining about being limited to 40 hours of HD, knowing their company has a DVR with a bigger drive, but they can’t get the one they want (in one case the with Cox in RI the guy is limited to 20 hours...he switched to FiOS).

Maybe in you neck of the woods the service providers have abundant supplies and can guarantee a particular model but I’m pretty sure that’s not how it works in most places. At any rate, for me, no matter which service provider I chose, as far as hardware is concerned I'm the same boat...I'm not sure about Dish.

Mike


They are also not charging you $200 for a box and making you sign a 2 year lease. Yes I know the monthly fee is higher but there is still NO UP FRONT fee on these or a 2 year deal.

#73 OFFLINE   dirtyblueshirt

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 03:06 PM

They are also not charging you $200 for a box and making you sign a 2 year lease. Yes I know the monthly fee is higher but there is still NO UP FRONT fee on these or a 2 year deal.


So you'd rather pay more over time?
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#74 OFFLINE   Mike Bertelson

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 03:07 PM

They are also not charging you $200 for a box and making you sign a 2 year lease. Yes I know the monthly fee is higher but there is still NO UP FRONT fee on these or a 2 year deal.

What I don't understand is what does the upfront fee matter if the overall cost for the hardware is cheaper.

A guy gets an gets an extra HD DVR for $199 and pays $6/mo which comes to about $343 for a two year commitment. The Comcast HD DVR over the same two years would cost over $400. It seems to me that the DirecTV HD DVR is a better deal.

I really don't undertand what I'm missing so I'm hoping you clear it up for me.

Mike

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Since it costs 1.66¢ to produce a penny, my 2¢ worth is really 3.32¢ worth.  That 3.32¢ is my own and not the 3.32¢ of DIRECTV, Dish, or anyone else for that matter.


#75 OFFLINE   sigma1914

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 03:07 PM

You guys can sit there and defend them all you want. It's a stupid business decision. Is it more profitable for them? Sure but I have read countless posts of very unhappy customers not getting the model they want.

So, it's a stupid business decision yet it's profitable? How's a higher profit stupid business?

I assure you DirecTV could easily figure out a way to make sure that the very small % of customers who request a certain model get one. Instead they have some moron that came up with this leasing program who I'm sure gets plenty of extra money in his bank account. So I guess the people who came up with this win.

If you guys think that DirecTV can't figure out a way to give customers the models they want when they are PAYING for them and signing a 2 year bit, then maybe you guys should go apply for a job at DTV so you can help keep the craptastic leasing program alive for years to come. DTV would still make plenty of cash.

That avenue exists...Solid Signal, Weakknees, etc.

How on earth you guys can sit there and justify the way DTV runs the lease program is beyond me. When I call DTV to order another HD-DVR and dishing out $200 bucks, I am going to make sure it's an HR-24 or guess what it's getting refused. You guys that love this policy so much can have all the crap refurb boxes that's just fine by me. More HR24's for the rest of us who think the policy is complete crap.

Why not use existing ways to guarantee a HR24? You're obviously willing to pay the $199.

I'm not arguing that they can't do what they are doing, I'm saying it's a horrible policy that makes a lot of people upset. Let's see, what would make people happy keeping the current policy or letting people request a model they would like. Gee I wonder


Correction...it makes a few people upset. You even acknowledged it's a "very small % of customers who request a certain model."


I always felt the best idea would be:
If you're paying the standard lease fee of $99 (H) or $199 (HR), then you should be able to specify the model.
If you receive any discount, then you get whatever you get.
If you stop responding to them or put them on ignore, then eventually they'll go away.




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