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>>> DirecTV does NOT promise any specific model of receiver! <<<


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#61 OFFLINE   matt

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 10:28 AM

You know, it is very much like a car rental. They have different classes; compact, midsize, full. D* had SD, DVR, HD, HD DVR. The rental car quits working, you get one of the same size that drives fine but doesn't have glossy paint and has a big dent in the door for no cost. The IRD quits working and you get one of the same class that works fine but has a matte finish instead of glossy and scratch in the lid for no cost (or maybe shipping).

Nobody has yet to convince me that free replacement of a relatively short lifespan piece of electronics any time that you need it is bad customer service. You aren't required to pay for any kind of extended warranty, and many times they will waive the shipping charge for you. Sure, you pay $199 and agree to 2 years of service to get in the door, but once you have the unit you are guaranteed to have a working one for as long as you want to have it. What other company offers that?
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#62 OFFLINE   Laxguy

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 11:05 AM

+1 [Matt]

Plus BZ reminds us that some of us paid big bucks for units we owned but became rather obsolete with the switch to MPEG4.....
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#63 OFFLINE   Mike Bertelson

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 11:17 AM

First off cable doesn't make you sign a 2 year bit unless your doing some price promo bundle. On or off contract they don't charge up front lease fees for equipment. When I had comcast I wanted the new moto dcx box. I brought my old box in to local office, walked out with a new one. They could care less. Sure maybe I got lucky but still they aren't charging people $200 PER BOX and then make people sign a 2 year deal just to give it back when you quit.

DirecTV can do whatever they want, it's just the way they do things right now is bad business.

I disagree with your argument because even with the upfront cost it’s actually cheaper over time with DirecTV. Especially if you only have one receiver, there is no monthly fee...I’m just sayin’ :grin:

While they don’t usually charge an upfront fee, Comcast, here at least, wants to charge me $56.80/mo for hardware (3 HD/DVRs and 1 HD receiver, matches what I have now).

With DirecTV I pay $18/mo but with Comcast it's $38/mo more. No upfront cost but someone would have paid more than twice in hardware costs with Comcast then a similar DirecTV new customer promo (currently DirecTV's website lists one free HD DVR and one HD receiver).

Twice the money and your are more likely to get used/refrub equipment with Comcast as a new customer than with DirecTV. A friend down the street went from Dish to Comcast and both of his “new” receivers were refurbs...both of them. :nono:

IIRC, this has been the way cable has done it for...well as least as far back as when I first had cable in 1981 so I don’t understand why it’s a big deal. :shrug:

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#64 OFFLINE   ndole

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 11:18 AM

Precisely. Would you rather pay $500 for the new boxes, that have the same reliability, the same rate of failure, and then be stuck holding the bill every time one goes bad? Keep in mind that they will ALL fail eventually, for one reason or another.
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#65 OFFLINE   Beerstalker

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 12:53 PM

Not to mention a lot of the time you don't even have to pay any lease fees for the equipment, or you get deals on how much you have to pay. For example I think new subscribers right now can get one HD-DVR and 2 HD receivers for free. No lease fees at all.

Then, at least in my experience, it is pretty easy to add an additional HD receiver for free each once year, or get a $100 discount on a HD-DVR once each year.

I know when I first signed up I was able to get 2 HD-DVRs for $99 each, and one standard receiver for free. Since then I've added another HD receiver and another HD-DVR, and haven't paid anything for either of them.
Sometimes when I reflect back on all the beer I drink I feel ashamed. Then I look into the glass and think about the workers in the brewery and all of their hopes and dreams. If I didn’t drink this beer, they might be out of work and their dreams would be shattered. Then I say to myself, "It is better that I drink this beer and let their dreams come true than be selfish and worry about my liver."
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#66 OFFLINE   bobcamp1

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 02:11 PM

Sure, you pay $199 and agree to 2 years of service to get in the door, but once you have the unit you are guaranteed to have a working one for as long as you want to have it. What other company offers that?


Actually, everybody does. And most of them do it without an upfront lease fee or an extra commitment. And instead of charging $20 to ship their own broken box back, you get a free service call instead.

The problem with D* is if you have the DVR a month or two and decide you don't like it. The benefit is that it is cheaper.

#67 OFFLINE   Beerstalker

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 02:25 PM

Dish Network makes you pay up front for the recievers too.

Cable companies don't charge up front but they charge you large monthly rental fees that add up to way more than the up front lease fee is ever going to cost you. $17/month for 24 months is $408, compared to $199 if you actually had to pay the lease fee up front from DirecTV. Not to mention if you keep the service for more than 2 years you still have to keep paying that $17 to Comcast, where your D* box was paid for long ago.

As far as service calls go most cable companies are charging for them now too, so it's not just the sat companies that are doing that.
Sometimes when I reflect back on all the beer I drink I feel ashamed. Then I look into the glass and think about the workers in the brewery and all of their hopes and dreams. If I didn’t drink this beer, they might be out of work and their dreams would be shattered. Then I say to myself, "It is better that I drink this beer and let their dreams come true than be selfish and worry about my liver."
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#68 OFFLINE   bobcamp1

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 02:35 PM

Nobody has yet to convince me that free replacement of a relatively short lifespan piece of electronics any time that you need it is bad customer service.


Sorry to double-post on your same comment. That's what happens when I type too fast. :grin:

First, it's not free, it's $20. It's their broken equipment -- if they want it back they should pay for shipping or come and pick it up.

I also take issue with anytime you need it. It's not anytime you want it. If one gets a new box and another gets a 5-year-old box, then two years later the boxes will be 2 and 7 years old. The 2 year box is OK. The 7 year old box will be in need of a tech. refresh, yet D* will force another upfront lease fee + 2 yr agreement to replace an old working box with the latest model.

Also, if I start a 2-year agreement with a new box, it will have all the new features. If it breaks within a month and is replaced with a 5-year-old unit, I won't be happy. It won't have all the new features I got used to with the new box. And I can't change providers because of the 2-year commitment. That's borderline fraud.

I like the lease model for DVRs, but why not charge different rates for different levels of DVRs? Those who want the latest box will gladly pay more, and those who don't will be happy to save some money.

#69 OFFLINE   Sim-X

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 02:36 PM

You guys can sit there and defend them all you want. It's a stupid business decision. Is it more profitable for them? Sure but I have read countless posts of very unhappy customers not getting the model they want.

Think if the cell phone companies started doing this. You want a new evo4G and they hand you a refurbished hero instead. Then when your done you have to give it back. It's stupid the way they do it. I assure you DirecTV could easily figure out a way to make sure that the very small % of customers who request a certain model get one. Instead they have some moron that came up with this leasing program who I'm sure gets plenty of extra money in his bank account. So I guess the people who came up with this win.

If you guys think that DirecTV can't figure out a way to give customers the models they want when they are PAYING for them and signing a 2 year bit, then maybe you guys should go apply for a job at DTV so you can help keep the craptastic leasing program alive for years to come. DTV would still make plenty of cash.

How on earth you guys can sit there and justify the way DTV runs the lease program is beyond me. When I call DTV to order another HD-DVR and dishing out $200 bucks, I am going to make sure it's an HR-24 or guess what it's getting refused. You guys that love this policy so much can have all the crap refurb boxes that's just fine by me. More HR24's for the rest of us who think the policy is complete crap.

I'm not arguing that they can't do what they are doing, I'm saying it's a horrible policy that makes a lot of people upset. Let's see, what would make people happy keeping the current policy or letting people request a model they would like. Gee I wonder

#70 OFFLINE   bobcamp1

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 02:40 PM

Dish Network makes you pay up front for the recievers too.

Cable companies don't charge up front but they charge you large monthly rental fees that add up to way more than the up front lease fee is ever going to cost you. $17/month for 24 months is $408, compared to $199 if you actually had to pay the lease fee up front from DirecTV. Not to mention if you keep the service for more than 2 years you still have to keep paying that $17 to Comcast, where your D* box was paid for long ago.

As far as service calls go most cable companies are charging for them now too, so it's not just the sat companies that are doing that.


What's that $7/month DVR fee + $6/month equipment fee D* charges? $13/month + upfront fee + 2 yr agreement vs. $20/month + nothing else. D* is cheaper but not as much as you think.

Plus, companies can't charge for a service call if the reason is leased equipment malfunction. At least they're not SUPPOSED to charge for it. You never know with cable companies....

#71 OFFLINE   Mike Bertelson

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 02:52 PM

You guys can sit there and defend them all you want. It's a stupid business decision. Is it more profitable for them? Sure but I have read countless posts of very unhappy customers not getting the model they want.

<snip>

Referring to the bolded statement, I’ve heard the same thing about other service providers. Maybe things are different where you live, but in my area (CT, RI) both Cox and Comcast will not give the customer choice of receiver/DVR. A guy I work with tried for months to get the DVR with the larger drive (Cox) and they told him that they don't swap working receivers and they don't guarantee which DVR is sent to customer for installation. Just like DirecTV, Cox and Comcast in my area will send out what’s on the shelf. I can’t tell you number of people I know who are complaining about being limited to 40 hours of HD, knowing their company has a DVR with a bigger drive, but they can’t get the one they want (in one case the with Cox in RI the guy is limited to 20 hours...he switched to FiOS).

Maybe in you neck of the woods the service providers have abundant supplies and can guarantee a particular model but I’m pretty sure that’s not how it works in most places. At any rate, for me, no matter which service provider I chose, as far as hardware is concerned I'm the same boat...I'm not sure about Dish.

Mike

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#72 OFFLINE   Sim-X

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 02:59 PM

Referring to the bolded statement, I’ve heard the same thing about other service providers. Maybe things are different where you live, but in my area (CT, RI) both Cox and Comcast will not give the customer choice of receiver/DVR. A guy I work with tried for months to get the DVR with the larger drive (Cox) and they told him that they don't swap working receivers and they don't guarantee which DVR is sent to customer for installation. Just like DirecTV, Cox and Comcast in my area will send out what’s on the shelf. I can’t tell you number of people I know who are complaining about being limited to 40 hours of HD, knowing their company has a DVR with a bigger drive, but they can’t get the one they want (in one case the with Cox in RI the guy is limited to 20 hours...he switched to FiOS).

Maybe in you neck of the woods the service providers have abundant supplies and can guarantee a particular model but I’m pretty sure that’s not how it works in most places. At any rate, for me, no matter which service provider I chose, as far as hardware is concerned I'm the same boat...I'm not sure about Dish.

Mike


They are also not charging you $200 for a box and making you sign a 2 year lease. Yes I know the monthly fee is higher but there is still NO UP FRONT fee on these or a 2 year deal.

#73 OFFLINE   dirtyblueshirt

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 03:06 PM

They are also not charging you $200 for a box and making you sign a 2 year lease. Yes I know the monthly fee is higher but there is still NO UP FRONT fee on these or a 2 year deal.


So you'd rather pay more over time?
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#74 OFFLINE   Mike Bertelson

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 03:07 PM

They are also not charging you $200 for a box and making you sign a 2 year lease. Yes I know the monthly fee is higher but there is still NO UP FRONT fee on these or a 2 year deal.

What I don't understand is what does the upfront fee matter if the overall cost for the hardware is cheaper.

A guy gets an gets an extra HD DVR for $199 and pays $6/mo which comes to about $343 for a two year commitment. The Comcast HD DVR over the same two years would cost over $400. It seems to me that the DirecTV HD DVR is a better deal.

I really don't undertand what I'm missing so I'm hoping you clear it up for me.

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#75 OFFLINE   sigma1914

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 03:07 PM

You guys can sit there and defend them all you want. It's a stupid business decision. Is it more profitable for them? Sure but I have read countless posts of very unhappy customers not getting the model they want.

So, it's a stupid business decision yet it's profitable? How's a higher profit stupid business?

I assure you DirecTV could easily figure out a way to make sure that the very small % of customers who request a certain model get one. Instead they have some moron that came up with this leasing program who I'm sure gets plenty of extra money in his bank account. So I guess the people who came up with this win.

If you guys think that DirecTV can't figure out a way to give customers the models they want when they are PAYING for them and signing a 2 year bit, then maybe you guys should go apply for a job at DTV so you can help keep the craptastic leasing program alive for years to come. DTV would still make plenty of cash.

That avenue exists...Solid Signal, Weakknees, etc.

How on earth you guys can sit there and justify the way DTV runs the lease program is beyond me. When I call DTV to order another HD-DVR and dishing out $200 bucks, I am going to make sure it's an HR-24 or guess what it's getting refused. You guys that love this policy so much can have all the crap refurb boxes that's just fine by me. More HR24's for the rest of us who think the policy is complete crap.

Why not use existing ways to guarantee a HR24? You're obviously willing to pay the $199.

I'm not arguing that they can't do what they are doing, I'm saying it's a horrible policy that makes a lot of people upset. Let's see, what would make people happy keeping the current policy or letting people request a model they would like. Gee I wonder


Correction...it makes a few people upset. You even acknowledged it's a "very small % of customers who request a certain model."


I always felt the best idea would be:
If you're paying the standard lease fee of $99 (H) or $199 (HR), then you should be able to specify the model.
If you receive any discount, then you get whatever you get.
If you stop responding to them or put them on ignore, then eventually they'll go away.

#76 OFFLINE   futureformercsr

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 03:47 PM

You guys can sit there and defend them all you want. It's a stupid business decision. Is it more profitable for them? Sure but I have read countless posts of very unhappy customers not getting the model they want.

I assure you DirecTV could easily figure out a way to make sure that the very small % of customers who request a certain model get one. I'm not arguing that they can't do what they are doing, I'm saying it's a horrible policy that makes a lot of people upset. Let's see, what would make people happy keeping the current policy or letting people request a model they would like. Gee I wonder


Businesses always do what is profitable for them, whenever a small percentage of customers has an impact on the profits, then policies change. Not just with this issue, but with any business, the needs of the many outweigh the complaints of a few. So if you really want to get this policy changed, get yourself and everybody else that doesn't like the policy and email the office of the president so he knows your upset. Just don't expect the industry to change unless the majority of customers for all the carriers start expressing complaints.
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#77 OFFLINE   wingrider01

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 03:55 PM

What's that $7/month DVR fee + $6/month equipment fee D* charges? $13/month + upfront fee + 2 yr agreement vs. $20/month + nothing else. D* is cheaper but not as much as you think.

Plus, companies can't charge for a service call if the reason is leased equipment malfunction. At least they're not SUPPOSED to charge for it. You never know with cable companies....


Not sure what cable company you deal with or have dealt with but here charter will not charge for a truck roll unless they determine the problem is inside your house, if they determine that it is inside the house (including equipment) and you do not have the monthly wiring insurance the base charge is 65.00 then a per hour charge after that.

#78 OFFLINE   Sim-X

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 04:16 PM

So, it's a stupid business decision yet it's profitable? How's a higher profit stupid business?


It's not, but there is more to running a business than just making profit. Sure charging people full price for refurb models is profitable, how can it not be? Does that mean it is the right decision in the long run? Of course not, I'm sure a lot of people have dumped DTV because of it.

That avenue exists...Solid Signal, Weakknees, etc.


I'm sure the average customer knows they have to go on to solid signal and mail order a box because dtv can't make any promises. :rolleyes:

Why not use existing ways to guarantee a HR24? You're obviously willing to pay the $199.

It's principal. Here is a clue, a brand new HR24 & a refurb HR22 are NOT the same. Do DTV gets to decide who to give the "GT" model to and who not to and charge the exact same price? It's bad business.

Correction...it makes a few people upset. You even acknowledged it's a "very small % of customers who request a certain model."

It is a small %, so why not give those customers what they want? It wouldn't cost them that much more if anything to small % that wants it. Let's say they piss a customer off because they want to give them a refurb hr22 instead of a hr24. That customer walks because of it. Kiss the monthly income goodbye. Sure they are a huge company is it worth it to loose a customer possibly forever over a box model? Stupid, your talking thousands of dollars in revenue over the life of the average customer.

I always felt the best idea would be:
If you're paying the standard lease fee of $99 (H) or $199 (HR), then you should be able to specify the model.
If you receive any discount, then you get whatever you get.

You could at least justify that, people that are paying should certainly be able to pick the model.

Businesses always do what is profitable for them, whenever a small percentage of customers has an impact on the profits, then policies change. Not just with this issue, but with any business, the needs of the many outweigh the complaints of a few. So if you really want to get this policy changed, get yourself and everybody else that doesn't like the policy and email the office of the president so he knows your upset. Just don't expect the industry to change unless the majority of customers for all the carriers start expressing complaints.


I agree, if enough people leave and complain it will change. The problem you have people here that stand by the horrible policy and try and justify DTV's actions even know it's complete bs. DTV has such a bad reputation, "F" rating BBB, yea that's great for your company imagine. I don't need to hear trolls saying the BBB is stupid bla bla. I actually kinda agree it is, but the bottom line people use the bbb all the time and trust them. The BBB understands a business will have complaints. If complaints are properly resolved, there is no way you will have an "F" rating. Clearly they are not doing something right.

I don't know how you guys can sit here and defend an "F" rated company. The policy is wack and you guys know it. This policy by no means helps the business rating.

Edited by Sim-X, 19 April 2011 - 04:21 PM.


#79 OFFLINE   matt

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 04:39 PM

I'd be doing it the same way if I were running it. The vast majority of customers probably don't even know the difference, it's just a friggin' box!

Look at my sig; I wanted a specific model, I went and got it. If you don't like the way the lease program works, don't participate in it. It's not hard, I promise you! My only leased unit is the one that came with the system. Pay the extra cost that it's worth to you to get what you want, and do whatever you need to do to maintain it.
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#80 OFFLINE   Beerstalker

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 04:43 PM

What's that $7/month DVR fee + $6/month equipment fee D* charges? $13/month + upfront fee + 2 yr agreement vs. $20/month + nothing else. D* is cheaper but not as much as you think.

Plus, companies can't charge for a service call if the reason is leased equipment malfunction. At least they're not SUPPOSED to charge for it. You never know with cable companies....


Don't know if we can really include the $7 DVR fee in the comparison because that is only per account. I have 3 HD-DVR and only pay that $7 once. On Comcast I would have to pay $17/month for each of the HD-DVRs.

I guess you could kind of count the $6/month but that isn't really a lease fee. It's a mirroring fee that has to be paid for each receiver after your primary receiver no matter if it is owned or leased.

I'll go ahead and make a full comparison though in my case. My costs with DirecTV are $7 for DVR and 3 x $6 for my 3 additional HD-DVRs/receivers. That's a total of $25/month. I paid $198 up front for my 2 HD-DVRs. Over 2 years my total cost was 198 + (24 x 25) = $798.

On Comcast the same setup of 3 HD-DVRs ($17/mo) and one HD receiver (9/mo) would run me $60/mo. So in 2 years my total equipment cost would be $1440.

Thats $642 in savings over 2 years. Even if I had paid the full up front lease fees (3 x 198 + 99 = $693), and included both the DVR and mirroring fees I would still have only paid $1293 in 2 years, and have saved $147.

The leasing model makes sense for both DirecTV and the consumer. Those of you who think that Comcast/Dish/etc. only use brand new boxes or let you pick and choose at will which exact model you get need to look into it more. I finally convinced my parents to upgrade their Comcast to HD about 3 years ago and we had to go through 3 HD-DVRs before we got one to work. The first two were the same model HD-DVR I had when I got rid of Comcast over 3 years ago, and they definitely looked it. Scratched, dented, and dirty as could be. Finally I was able to go into the office myself when I was visiting and got them a newer model after I specifically saw it sitting on the shelf and asked for it. It was still a used one though and had scratches on it.

Edited by Beerstalker, 19 April 2011 - 04:50 PM.

Sometimes when I reflect back on all the beer I drink I feel ashamed. Then I look into the glass and think about the workers in the brewery and all of their hopes and dreams. If I didn’t drink this beer, they might be out of work and their dreams would be shattered. Then I say to myself, "It is better that I drink this beer and let their dreams come true than be selfish and worry about my liver."
-by Jack Handy




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