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>>> DirecTV does NOT promise any specific model of receiver! <<<


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#76 OFFLINE   futureformercsr

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 03:47 PM

You guys can sit there and defend them all you want. It's a stupid business decision. Is it more profitable for them? Sure but I have read countless posts of very unhappy customers not getting the model they want.

I assure you DirecTV could easily figure out a way to make sure that the very small % of customers who request a certain model get one. I'm not arguing that they can't do what they are doing, I'm saying it's a horrible policy that makes a lot of people upset. Let's see, what would make people happy keeping the current policy or letting people request a model they would like. Gee I wonder


Businesses always do what is profitable for them, whenever a small percentage of customers has an impact on the profits, then policies change. Not just with this issue, but with any business, the needs of the many outweigh the complaints of a few. So if you really want to get this policy changed, get yourself and everybody else that doesn't like the policy and email the office of the president so he knows your upset. Just don't expect the industry to change unless the majority of customers for all the carriers start expressing complaints.
The views expressed by me are solely my own and not those of DirecTV.

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#77 OFFLINE   wingrider01

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 03:55 PM

What's that $7/month DVR fee + $6/month equipment fee D* charges? $13/month + upfront fee + 2 yr agreement vs. $20/month + nothing else. D* is cheaper but not as much as you think.

Plus, companies can't charge for a service call if the reason is leased equipment malfunction. At least they're not SUPPOSED to charge for it. You never know with cable companies....


Not sure what cable company you deal with or have dealt with but here charter will not charge for a truck roll unless they determine the problem is inside your house, if they determine that it is inside the house (including equipment) and you do not have the monthly wiring insurance the base charge is 65.00 then a per hour charge after that.

#78 OFFLINE   Sim-X

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 04:16 PM

So, it's a stupid business decision yet it's profitable? How's a higher profit stupid business?


It's not, but there is more to running a business than just making profit. Sure charging people full price for refurb models is profitable, how can it not be? Does that mean it is the right decision in the long run? Of course not, I'm sure a lot of people have dumped DTV because of it.

That avenue exists...Solid Signal, Weakknees, etc.


I'm sure the average customer knows they have to go on to solid signal and mail order a box because dtv can't make any promises. :rolleyes:

Why not use existing ways to guarantee a HR24? You're obviously willing to pay the $199.

It's principal. Here is a clue, a brand new HR24 & a refurb HR22 are NOT the same. Do DTV gets to decide who to give the "GT" model to and who not to and charge the exact same price? It's bad business.

Correction...it makes a few people upset. You even acknowledged it's a "very small % of customers who request a certain model."

It is a small %, so why not give those customers what they want? It wouldn't cost them that much more if anything to small % that wants it. Let's say they piss a customer off because they want to give them a refurb hr22 instead of a hr24. That customer walks because of it. Kiss the monthly income goodbye. Sure they are a huge company is it worth it to loose a customer possibly forever over a box model? Stupid, your talking thousands of dollars in revenue over the life of the average customer.

I always felt the best idea would be:
If you're paying the standard lease fee of $99 (H) or $199 (HR), then you should be able to specify the model.
If you receive any discount, then you get whatever you get.

You could at least justify that, people that are paying should certainly be able to pick the model.

Businesses always do what is profitable for them, whenever a small percentage of customers has an impact on the profits, then policies change. Not just with this issue, but with any business, the needs of the many outweigh the complaints of a few. So if you really want to get this policy changed, get yourself and everybody else that doesn't like the policy and email the office of the president so he knows your upset. Just don't expect the industry to change unless the majority of customers for all the carriers start expressing complaints.


I agree, if enough people leave and complain it will change. The problem you have people here that stand by the horrible policy and try and justify DTV's actions even know it's complete bs. DTV has such a bad reputation, "F" rating BBB, yea that's great for your company imagine. I don't need to hear trolls saying the BBB is stupid bla bla. I actually kinda agree it is, but the bottom line people use the bbb all the time and trust them. The BBB understands a business will have complaints. If complaints are properly resolved, there is no way you will have an "F" rating. Clearly they are not doing something right.

I don't know how you guys can sit here and defend an "F" rated company. The policy is wack and you guys know it. This policy by no means helps the business rating.

Edited by Sim-X, 19 April 2011 - 04:21 PM.


#79 OFFLINE   matt

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 04:39 PM

I'd be doing it the same way if I were running it. The vast majority of customers probably don't even know the difference, it's just a friggin' box!

Look at my sig; I wanted a specific model, I went and got it. If you don't like the way the lease program works, don't participate in it. It's not hard, I promise you! My only leased unit is the one that came with the system. Pay the extra cost that it's worth to you to get what you want, and do whatever you need to do to maintain it.
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#80 ONLINE   Beerstalker

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 04:43 PM

What's that $7/month DVR fee + $6/month equipment fee D* charges? $13/month + upfront fee + 2 yr agreement vs. $20/month + nothing else. D* is cheaper but not as much as you think.

Plus, companies can't charge for a service call if the reason is leased equipment malfunction. At least they're not SUPPOSED to charge for it. You never know with cable companies....


Don't know if we can really include the $7 DVR fee in the comparison because that is only per account. I have 3 HD-DVR and only pay that $7 once. On Comcast I would have to pay $17/month for each of the HD-DVRs.

I guess you could kind of count the $6/month but that isn't really a lease fee. It's a mirroring fee that has to be paid for each receiver after your primary receiver no matter if it is owned or leased.

I'll go ahead and make a full comparison though in my case. My costs with DirecTV are $7 for DVR and 3 x $6 for my 3 additional HD-DVRs/receivers. That's a total of $25/month. I paid $198 up front for my 2 HD-DVRs. Over 2 years my total cost was 198 + (24 x 25) = $798.

On Comcast the same setup of 3 HD-DVRs ($17/mo) and one HD receiver (9/mo) would run me $60/mo. So in 2 years my total equipment cost would be $1440.

Thats $642 in savings over 2 years. Even if I had paid the full up front lease fees (3 x 198 + 99 = $693), and included both the DVR and mirroring fees I would still have only paid $1293 in 2 years, and have saved $147.

The leasing model makes sense for both DirecTV and the consumer. Those of you who think that Comcast/Dish/etc. only use brand new boxes or let you pick and choose at will which exact model you get need to look into it more. I finally convinced my parents to upgrade their Comcast to HD about 3 years ago and we had to go through 3 HD-DVRs before we got one to work. The first two were the same model HD-DVR I had when I got rid of Comcast over 3 years ago, and they definitely looked it. Scratched, dented, and dirty as could be. Finally I was able to go into the office myself when I was visiting and got them a newer model after I specifically saw it sitting on the shelf and asked for it. It was still a used one though and had scratches on it.

Edited by Beerstalker, 19 April 2011 - 04:50 PM.

Sometimes when I reflect back on all the beer I drink I feel ashamed. Then I look into the glass and think about the workers in the brewery and all of their hopes and dreams. If I didn’t drink this beer, they might be out of work and their dreams would be shattered. Then I say to myself, "It is better that I drink this beer and let their dreams come true than be selfish and worry about my liver."
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#81 OFFLINE   Sim-X

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 04:45 PM

I'd be doing it the same way if I were running it. The vast majority of customers probably don't even know the difference, it's just a friggin' box!

Look at my sig; I wanted a specific model, I went and got it. If you don't like the way the lease program works, don't participate in it. It's not hard, I promise you! My only leased unit is the one that came with the system. Pay the extra cost that it's worth to you to get what you want, and do whatever you need to do to maintain it.


Just a box, yup your right Matt my HR22 was just as quick if not FASTER than my HR24. Charging people the same price for a pos refurb and a HR24 yea that's fair. Great policy right? No kidding I can go buy my own, I know it's not hard but a lot of people get the shaft because they don't know they have to go online to buy a box. I agree with you, most people don't know the difference at all so why is it so hard for them to give you a certain model if most people could care less?

#82 OFFLINE   matt

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 04:46 PM

Why not just quit with new boxes? That's what the cable company seems to have done here. They are all old, nasty, and slow.

Scrap all HR20s. Done, no more go out, any that are off can't be turned on, but can be traded in for this following model. No more HR24s, send those back for a once in a lifetime lease fee refund. Yank the drives, scrap the rest of the parts. From now on, remove all badging from the remaining units. Switch all HD DVR customers over to SWM so BBCs will not be required. Put the same 500GB in all units, since they are now all the same. Never change the faceplate or housing no matter the condition. Now all the 21/22/23 units are identical, and that's all that's available.

Now everyone is happy, right?
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#83 ONLINE   Beerstalker

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 05:05 PM

Just a box, yup your right Matt my HR22 was just as quick if not FASTER than my HR24. Charging people the same price for a pos refurb and a HR24 yea that's fair. Great policy right? No kidding I can go buy my own, I know it's not hard but a lot of people get the shaft because they don't know they have to go online to buy a box. I agree with you, most people don't know the difference at all so why is it so hard for them to give you a certain model if most people could care less?


I'm pretty sure the cable companies all charge the same amount for their HD-DVRs no matter which model you get, or how fast they are, how big the hard drives are (and some of the hard drives are tiny, I think my parents can only record 10-15hrs of HD). And like I've said before they don't exactly let you pick and choose the model at will.

In order for DirecTV to start letting people pick and choose exactly which receiver they want it would be a major overhaul to their entire inventory and processing system. They have millions or receivers in (dozens? of) warehouses all over the US that would need to be kept track of seperately for each model instead of just as a HD receiver and HD-DVR. That is a huge expenditure that just wouldn't be feasible to do for the very small number of people who would even care about it. That is not a good business decision.
Sometimes when I reflect back on all the beer I drink I feel ashamed. Then I look into the glass and think about the workers in the brewery and all of their hopes and dreams. If I didn’t drink this beer, they might be out of work and their dreams would be shattered. Then I say to myself, "It is better that I drink this beer and let their dreams come true than be selfish and worry about my liver."
-by Jack Handy

#84 OFFLINE   spartanstew

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 05:06 PM

I'm sure the average customer knows they have to go on to solid signal and mail order a box because dtv can't make any promises. :rolleyes:


Your logic is circular.

Correct, the average customer does not know about solid signal. The average customer also does not know about the difference between boxes.

The small minority that know the differences between boxes, also know (or should know) about solid signal and that if they want a specific box for $200, there's a way to get it.

The current business model satisfies both of those customer types.

I'm sure Directv can't wait to get their hands on your unit.

 
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#85 OFFLINE   dirtyblueshirt

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 05:12 PM

It's not, but there is more to running a business than just making profit. Sure charging people full price for refurb models is profitable, how can it not be? Does that mean it is the right decision in the long run? Of course not, I'm sure a lot of people have dumped DTV because of it.


$199 for an HD DVR is not full price.
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#86 ONLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 05:16 PM

$199 for an HD DVR is not full price.

Don't bring facts/reality into this as it's makes it harder to have a good rant. :lol:
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#87 OFFLINE   Mike Bertelson

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 05:35 PM

Just a box, yup your right Matt my HR22 was just as quick if not FASTER than my HR24. Charging people the same price for a pos refurb and a HR24 yea that's fair. Great policy right? No kidding I can go buy my own, I know it's not hard but a lot of people get the shaft because they don't know they have to go online to buy a box. I agree with you, most people don't know the difference at all so why is it so hard for them to give you a certain model if most people could care less?

I ask again...why is it so unfair when it costs less than cable boxes which, while being more expensive over time, are just as likely to be refurbs?

It’s almost a double standard. On one hand you think it’s ok for cable go give people refurbs. On the other hand, even though the out of pocket is less, since DirecTV wants an upfront fee, that’s not ok. :scratchin

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Since it costs 1.66¢ to produce a penny, my 2¢ worth is really 3.32¢ worth.  That 3.32¢ is my own and not the 3.32¢ of DIRECTV, Dish, or anyone else for that matter.


#88 OFFLINE   Davenlr

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 05:40 PM

Yea, bet the car dealers would do really well leasing 2002 Taurus for the same price as a 2012 Focus. Hey, they both use gas, and go 55 on the freeway. How about signing that new 2 yr cell phone contract and letting AT*T or Verizon decide what used phone they give you. It is totally amazing people are gullible enough to allow the cable and sat industries to give them used/refurbed equipment for the same price as new.

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#89 OFFLINE   spartanstew

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 05:41 PM

Yea, bet the car dealers would do really well leasing 2002 Taurus for the same price as a 2012 Focus. Hey, they both use gas, and go 55 on the freeway. How about signing that new 2 yr cell phone contract and letting AT*T or Verizon decide what used phone they give you.


Oh brother, it's pointless.

I'm sure Directv can't wait to get their hands on your unit.

 
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#90 OFFLINE   dirtyblueshirt

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 05:44 PM

Yea, bet the car dealers would do really well leasing 2002 Taurus for the same price as a 2012 Focus. Hey, they both use gas, and go 55 on the freeway. How about signing that new 2 yr cell phone contract and letting AT*T or Verizon decide what used phone they give you. It is totally amazing people are gullible enough to allow the cable and sat industries to give them used/refurbed equipment for the same price as new.


First off, we've gone through this before. You're talking apples to oranges. DirecTV isn't recycling 10 year old DVRs. There is an extent to the refurb cycle, and there is much more to electronics refurb than to auto resale.

Second, your cell phone analogy is flawed, since you own the phone despite the contract.
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#91 OFFLINE   Davenlr

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 05:49 PM

First off, we've gone through this before. You're talking apples to oranges. DirecTV isn't recycling 10 year old DVRs. There is an extent to the refurb cycle, and there is much more to electronics refurb than to auto resale.

Second, your cell phone analogy is flawed, since you own the phone despite the contract.


You can defend the policy if you like. *I* wont be using refurb or used equipment on a new install for anything, cable or sat. Xfinity had NO problem giving me a brand new in box leased unit, brand new in box cable modem, and the other unit was a new Tivo I purchased myself. I always had new DirecTv equipment as well. They were always willing to credit my account for going to Best Buy to get my upgrades.

Tivo Premier XL4, Tivo Premier, Tivo HD whole home on Xfinity HD, DirecTv Whole Home with 39" high gain KaKu dish, Roku3,SageTv 8 TB Win8 Server -> DVDO Edge-> Denon AVR, Klipsch KB15's/Panasonic 55ST60 plasma"


#92 OFFLINE   dirtyblueshirt

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 05:50 PM

You can defend the policy if you like. *I* wont be using refurb or used equipment on a new install for anything, cable or sat. Xfinity had NO problem giving me a brand new in box leased unit, brand new in box cable modem, and the other unit was a new Tivo I purchased myself. I always had new DirecTv equipment as well. They were always willing to credit my account for going to Best Buy to get my upgrades.


And that's your choice, So why complain?
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#93 OFFLINE   Davenlr

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 05:52 PM

And that's your choice, So why complain?


I am not complaining about anything. Just stating my opinion like everyone else on this board does.

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#94 OFFLINE   Mike Bertelson

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 05:52 PM

Yea, bet the car dealers would do really well leasing 2002 Taurus for the same price as a 2012 Focus. Hey, they both use gas, and go 55 on the freeway. How about signing that new 2 yr cell phone contract and letting AT*T or Verizon decide what used phone they give you. It is totally amazing people are gullible enough to allow the cable and sat industries to give them used/refurbed equipment for the same price as new.

That's nowhere near the same thing. Cable companies have been doing it for decades. When we needed a box we went down to the office and we got one off the shelf and it was likely one that someone else had returned. This is nothing new so I'm not sure why everyone is so up in arms over it.

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Since it costs 1.66¢ to produce a penny, my 2¢ worth is really 3.32¢ worth.  That 3.32¢ is my own and not the 3.32¢ of DIRECTV, Dish, or anyone else for that matter.


#95 OFFLINE   dirtyblueshirt

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 05:56 PM

I am not complaining about anything. Just stating my opinion like everyone else on this board does.


Complaint: (n) complaint (an expression of grievance or resent)

Yea, bet the car dealers would do really well leasing 2002 Taurus for the same price as a 2012 Focus. Hey, they both use gas, and go 55 on the freeway. How about signing that new 2 yr cell phone contract and letting AT*T or Verizon decide what used phone they give you. It is totally amazing people are gullible enough to allow the cable and sat industries to give them used/refurbed equipment for the same price as new.


Complaint.
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#96 OFFLINE   Mike Bertelson

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 05:57 PM

Discuss the Topic not Each Other.

:backtotop

Mike

Edited by Mike Bertelson, 20 April 2011 - 05:16 AM.

µß
Since it costs 1.66¢ to produce a penny, my 2¢ worth is really 3.32¢ worth.  That 3.32¢ is my own and not the 3.32¢ of DIRECTV, Dish, or anyone else for that matter.


#97 OFFLINE   TomCat

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 07:40 PM

...DirecTV requires a 2-year programming commitment, starting from the activation date of any leased receiver...

...DirecTV does NOT promise, advertise, or guarantee that you will receive any particular model or submodel of receiver.

...in markets that don't have HD locals available via satellite, if you plan to use an OTA antenna for HD locals, you can advise DirecTV that you need your receiver to have OTA capability, and they will send you a refurb H20 or HR20, which are the only models to have built-in OTA tuners...

I'm sure we all appreciate the amount of work that went in to your post.

Unfortunately, and I really don't want to be a skunk at your garden party here, but some of the information is just not accurate.

For example, a 2-year commitment is typical for new customers or for customers moving from SD to HD (even though they gouge us another $10 for that privilege), but adding a new receiver does not necessarily restart the clock, whether you are within the 2-year period or already out of it. I am living proof of both of those scenarios not causing further commitment.

It is also not true that they don't promise; they sometimes do, yet fail to keep that promise. It appears that quite often (if the forums are any guide) poorly-informed CSRs may innocently promise and then be later over-ruled by the shipping department (CSRs should read your post more than anyone).

They also promise and sometimes keep the promise: and requesting (successfully) a HR20 is also possible even if you live in a "served" market. I am fond of the HR20 (comparatively speaking) and have requested the HR20 twice as a replacement, been promised an HR20, and had them follow through on that promise each time. And I live in a top-5 city with 18 locals including all that carry HD available on sat (this is not DISH, after all), so it is unlikely that I just got lucky twice (with 5 models available, odds are 25 to 1 against). Again, living proof. I was careful to mention that the reason I wanted an HR20 was because I wanted to receive subchannels that DTV does not carry; maybe that is the key. Each time the CSR indicated they would write that on the order and assured me it would not likely be a problem to get the HR20. And each time, the HR20 was what showed up (they even doulble shipped me once, so I have replacement parts available on the shelf).

But never fear, the forum has editing capability.

Edited by TomCat, 19 April 2011 - 07:46 PM.

It's usually safe to talk honestly and openly with people because they typically are not really listening anyway.

#98 OFFLINE   dirtyblueshirt

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 07:45 PM

It is also not true that they don't promise; they sometimes do, yet fail to keep that promise. It appears that quite often (if the forums are any guide) poorly-informed CSRs may innocently promise and then be later over-ruled by the shipping department (CSRs should read your post more than anyone).


DirecTV, as a company, does not promise a specific model. This is stated over and over again in their sales literature. Granted, it's poor training when CSRs promise something, but you simply have no way of knowing if their promises are due to a lack of training, laziness to read corporate policy, or impatience to get you off the phone to improve their call stats.
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#99 OFFLINE   ndole

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 07:50 PM

At least the saving grace of this thread is that it draws all of this empty headedness away from the rest of the forum :D
"He that is good for making excuses is seldom good for anything else."

#100 ONLINE   sigma1914

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Posted 19 April 2011 - 07:50 PM

...


They also promise and sometimes keep the promise: and requesting (successfully) a HR20 is also possible even if you live in a "served" market. I am fond of the HR20 (comparatively speaking) and have requested the HR20 twice as a replacement, been promised an HR20, and had them follow through on that promise each time. And I live in a top-5 city with 18 locals including all that carry HD available on sat (this is not DISH, after all), so it is unlikely that I just got lucky twice (with 5 models available, odds are 25 to 1 against). Again, living proof. I was careful to mention that the reason I wanted an HR20 was because I wanted to receive subchannels that DTV does not carry; maybe that is the key. Each time the CSR indicated they would write that on the order and assured me it would not likely be a problem to get the HR20. And each time, the HR20 was what showed up (they even doulble shipped me once, so I have replacement parts available on the shelf).

But never fear, the forum has editing capability.


I guess you didn't see this part:

*Yes, there ARE a handful of exceptions where specific models are sent out. For example, in markets that don't have HD locals available via satellite, if you plan to use an OTA antenna for HD locals, you can advise DirecTV that you need your receiver to have OTA capability, and they will send you a refurb H20 or HR20, which are the only models to have built-in OTA tuners. Of course, you give up certain capabilities: the H20 has no networking capabilities (no Whole Home service) and the HR20 can't do 3D.


If you stop responding to them or put them on ignore, then eventually they'll go away.




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