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Guest Message by DevFuse

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system never grounded????

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23 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   4putt

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Posted 13 April 2011 - 08:56 PM

Hi,

i have had directv since 2000. Original dish was installed by a roommate after a move. It was not grounded but everything worked fine. When i upgraded to HD directv replaced the dish but still nothing was ever grounded. I am in Arizona. The dish is on my porch roof. AT-9 old side car style. Will this cause problems? I have recently had 771 errors only on my hd reciever and people on here have suggested bad lnb's. My SD D-10 on a separate cable never has problems. For instance my H20-600 sometimes loses SD 248 channel yet is works on the D-10. I have flip flopped the cables, so that's not it. Ideas?

Thanks,
Family room: H24-200 HDMI
Mitsubishi 65" DLP

Bedroom: D-10 SD

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#2 OFFLINE   ben4715

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Posted 13 April 2011 - 08:58 PM

Another upgrade in your future. New dish.

#3 OFFLINE   longrider

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Posted 14 April 2011 - 08:06 AM

You do have other issues, the grounding of the dish is strictly a safety issue and does not affect reception.

My Setup


#4 OFFLINE   Cyber36

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Posted 14 April 2011 - 10:10 AM

If your hit by lightning, the charge will coarse through the coax cables frying everything in it's path instead of being harmlessly discharged into the ground........

#5 OFFLINE   matt

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Posted 14 April 2011 - 10:16 AM

Yeah, that 18 AWG steel messenger wire can also be used to ground your lighting rods. :sure:

Someone once told me that when wind blows across the dish charges can collect on the surface of the dish and cause interference. Since you have an AT-9, while there are many thousands out there working fine, they are getting up there in age. Probably time for a service call to get a slimline put up.
Slimline 5 with SWM-16
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HR34-700!
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Owned H25-700 and H24-700 off and packed for the move.

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#6 OFFLINE   mobandit

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Posted 14 April 2011 - 10:19 AM

If your hit by lightning, the charge will coarse through the coax cables frying everything in it's path instead of being harmlessly discharged into the ground........


If the dish is hit by lightning...everything will fry anyway, regardless of the grounding situation...

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#7 OFFLINE   raoul5788

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Posted 14 April 2011 - 10:57 AM

If your hit by lightning, the charge will coarse through the coax cables frying everything in it's path instead of being harmlessly discharged into the ground........


You should know better than to post this as if it is gospel, it's not.

#8 OFFLINE   joe diamond

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Posted 14 April 2011 - 11:58 AM

Yeah, that 18 AWG steel messenger wire can also be used to ground your lighting rods. :sure:

Someone once told me that when wind blows across the dish charges can collect on the surface of the dish and cause interference. Since you have an AT-9, while there are many thousands out there working fine, they are getting up there in age. Probably time for a service call to get a slimline put up.


Matt,

I got the urban legend on that one. According to this story the DEW (Defense Early Warning) radar rigs were installed out in the northern boonies to detect Russian ICBMs. While working and servicing these huge dishes static electricity did build on the dishes. When the techs showed up to service them they got significant shocks as they grounded the units with their bodies, They improved the ground strap at the ladder and the problem went away.

But the electric code picked up another issue...GROUND PARABOLIC DISH ANTENNAE! The DEW dishes were huge & steel with wire mesh exposed to high winds for weeks at a time. Directv dishes are small plastic poker chips but still the code prevails.

Just a little spin,

Joe

#9 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 14 April 2011 - 12:24 PM

Matt,

I got the urban legend on that one. According to this story the DEW (Defense Early Warning) radar rigs were installed out in the northern boonies to detect Russian ICBMs. While working and servicing these huge dishes static electricity did build on the dishes. When the techs showed up to service them they got significant shocks as they grounded the units with their bodies, They improved the ground strap at the ladder and the problem went away.

But the electric code picked up another issue...GROUND PARABOLIC DISH ANTENNAE! The DEW dishes were huge & steel with wire mesh exposed to high winds for weeks at a time. Directv dishes are small plastic poker chips but still the code prevails.

Just a little spin,

Joe

A bit of correction:
http://en.wikipedia....ly_Warning_Line

The Early Warning provided was useless against ICBMs...

It was for detection of manned bombers that would have been one way missions.

DirecTV dishes aren't made of plastic, but in cold weather may also have static buildup, which when it discharges, has been reported to give audio pops.
A.K.A VOS

#10 OFFLINE   joe diamond

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Posted 14 April 2011 - 12:40 PM

A bit of correction:
http://en.wikipedia....ly_Warning_Line
It was for detection of manned bombers that would have been one way missions.

DirecTV dishes aren't made of plastic, but in cold weather may also have static buildup, which when it discharges, has been reported to give audio pops.


VOS,

Correct again!

I was in early (1950s) elementary school when all this went on....... but you are correct. Radar to find and hit manned bombers; ICBM were a mid 1960s fav. Another part of the urban legend was that the NIKE program with surface to air missiles and radar to guide them...had nukes aboard that were going into the bomber fleets and nuking them in the air before they could nuke us on the ground.

That made the "Duck & Cover" drills make sense. Air bursts would break windows etc. Nukes on a town would . . .

We did deep knee bends in HS so in the event of an attack we could kiss our asses good by. And we built bomb shelters to keep our bombs from rusting.

What was the question?

Oh, yeah...the static build up. Those DEW rigs were huge. DTV antennae are small and FG. (not plastic) Is there measurable static build up on the sat dishes? I always ascribed any grounding issues to technical conformity to electric codes that did not apply to small stuff.

But I am wrong on a regular basis.

What do ya tink?

Joe............+ audio pop = something you drink while listening to loud jazz...right?

Edited by joe diamond, 14 April 2011 - 12:43 PM.
changed 1050 to 1950 + audio pop


#11 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 14 April 2011 - 01:19 PM

VOS,

Correct again!

I was in early (1950s) elementary school when all this went on....... but you are correct. Radar to find and hit manned bombers; ICBM were a mid 1960s fav. Another part of the urban legend was that the NIKE program with surface to air missiles and radar to guide them...had nukes aboard that were going into the bomber fleets and nuking them in the air before they could nuke us on the ground.

That made the "Duck & Cover" drills make sense. Air bursts would break windows etc. Nukes on a town would . . .

We did deep knee bends in HS so in the event of an attack we could kiss our asses good by. And we built bomb shelters to keep our bombs from rusting.

What was the question?

Oh, yeah...the static build up. Those DEW rigs were huge. DTV antennae are small and FG. (not plastic) Is there measurable static build up on the sat dishes? I always ascribed any grounding issues to technical conformity to electric codes that did not apply to small stuff.

But I am wrong on a regular basis.

What do ya tink?

Joe............+ audio pop = something you drink while listening to loud jazz...right?

there are urban legends and urban myths.
Airborne nuclear blasts were more than a myth, just as are/were nuclear torpedoes.
Remember at the time they'd put a nuclear warhead on just about anything: http://en.wikipedia....nuclear_device)
[edit] and http://www.designati.../dusrm/r-2.html
As for the DirecTV dish, dry weather [very low humidity] and wind causes static buildup. A larger dish may "charge" faster, but both can/should buildup a charge.

Edited by veryoldschool, 14 April 2011 - 01:43 PM.

A.K.A VOS

#12 OFFLINE   joe diamond

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Posted 14 April 2011 - 01:44 PM

there are urban legends and urban myths.
Airborne nuclear blasts were more than a myth, just as are/were nuclear torpedoes.
Remember at the time they'd put a nuclear warhead on just about anything: http://en.wikipedia....nuclear_device)

As for the DirecTV dish, dry weather [very low humidity] and wind causes static buildup. A larger dish may "charge" faster, but both can/should buildup a charge.


Hmmmmmmm!

As a test I would like to connect some 10 ga to the genitals of the Directv wonk who laughed and reported that Directv doesn't get involved in issues with subcontractor contracts. We hook him up to a dish with the 10ga and put his feet in a bucket of water. See how involved he gets when the wind blows.

Or is that over the top a little?

Joe

#13 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 14 April 2011 - 01:52 PM

Hmmmmmmm!

As a test I would like to connect some 10 ga to the genitals of the Directv wonk who laughed and reported that Directv doesn't get involved in issues with subcontractor contracts. We hook him up to a dish with the 10ga and put his feet in a bucket of water. See how involved he gets when the wind blows.

Or is that over the top a little?

Joe

I don't think you'd get what you're looking for with that setup.
You might have played with one of these in science class: http://en.wikipedia....raaff_generator

In the winter in New England, reaching for the doorknob to my room in USAF barracks, I'd get zapped, which was uncomfortable, but not much more.
A.K.A VOS

#14 OFFLINE   joe diamond

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Posted 14 April 2011 - 03:36 PM

I don't think you'd get what you're looking for with that setup.
You might have played with one of these in science class: http://en.wikipedia....raaff_generator

In the winter in New England, reaching for the doorknob to my room in USAF barracks, I'd get zapped, which was uncomfortable, but not much more.


That is where we are really going. I gotta find a better way to zap people I disagree with.

And, while thanking you for your service, know that not me but my son is now the tip of the spear. Just got back from TX where we watched Airman 1st Diamond complete BMT and enter the ranks in the wild blue yonder.

For several years he was my inside man for Directv installations. He read the books between jobs

Perhaps I could get him to steer a Hellfire out to CA......

Joe

#15 OFFLINE   4putt

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Posted 15 April 2011 - 04:56 AM

This got a little off topic but thanks for the suggestions guys. I like to try to do things myself but I think I will finally call the retention department and try for new dish and reciever.
Family room: H24-200 HDMI
Mitsubishi 65" DLP

Bedroom: D-10 SD

#16 OFFLINE   joe diamond

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Posted 15 April 2011 - 07:05 AM

This got a little off topic but thanks for the suggestions guys. I like to try to do things myself but I think I will finally call the retention department and try for new dish and reciever.


Probably right,

The only service issue I ever heard concerning grounding had to do with Caller ID not working with ungrounded installations.

Also, know that the "footprint" for the 101 sat that SD transmissions use is huge and strong. The sats at 99 & 103 ( on either side of the 101 sat) have different characteristics. They need more precise tuning and are more prone to disruption by weather.

In the absence of test equipment and spare parts.....that is where you are. Unless you can reproduce the defect by shaking cables you need a service
visit.

Joe

#17 OFFLINE   Shades228

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Posted 15 April 2011 - 02:31 PM

This got a little off topic but thanks for the suggestions guys. I like to try to do things myself but I think I will finally call the retention department and try for new dish and reciever.


You need a service call and they can take care of it on that. Ordering a receiver through them will make you have an agreement and burn any offers you have just for a technical problem. Call the right department for the right reasons.

#18 OFFLINE   Manctech

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Posted 16 April 2011 - 02:16 PM

I've seen a dish hit by lightning. I was quite amazed at how little dmg there was. It was a Slimline 3. The LNB bolts had star char patterns around them. The ground wire "blew out" half way down the side of the house (1 story). There was a large char mark on the side of the house and the exterior of the 18g ground wire had melted and exposed the copper. It was grounded to a cold water pipe.

The only dmg was to the two HD recievers and the LNB. Funny enough the SL-3 LNB still worked but signal was maxed at 85 despite perfect positioning.

TWC Technician (Huntersville, Cornelius, Davidson Area)


#19 OFFLINE   AntAltMike

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Posted 16 April 2011 - 06:57 PM

An uncle of mine bought me a Van De Graaff generator kit back around 1964. It required actually winding the motor armature coils to complete it. I don't remember who the manufacturer was and have not as yet located it on eBay. It worked a lot better than did my home-made Tesla Coil.

#20 OFFLINE   liquidctv

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 02:43 PM

Joe: >Is there measurable static build up on the sat dishes?

These dishes are pummeled with 18V on a regular basis. They can sometimes deliver a buzz.

Mantech: >the exterior of the 18g ground wire had melted and exposed the copper.

It's cool that the wire survived.

I checked out an old 18" dish on a golf course that was struck by lightning. It vaporized the first 30' of RG-6 going into the attic. You could see the dust from the PVC jacket lying on the attic floor.

Singed the wooden cupola near the dish too. Clearly, for a moment, the dish was on fire.

What's funny is that after a certain point, the vaporized RG-6 was fine. I barreled it off. Probably cut off ten inches just to be safe.





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