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The Battle is on! My landlord now demands I remove my dish


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1070 replies to this topic

#1001 OFFLINE   landlordking360

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 10:47 PM

I was looking up laws on the removal of the dish and wires.

According to Federal Communication Commission:

What Types of Antennas Are Covered Under the OTARD Rules?

The following antennas or dishes are covered by these rules:

A "dish" antenna one meter (39.37 inches) or less in diameter (or any size dish if located in Alaska), designed to receive direct broadcast satellite service, including direct-to-home satellite service, or to receive or transmit fixed wireless signals via satellite.
An antenna that is one meter or less in diameter and is designed to receive video programming services via broadband radio service (wireless cable), or to receive or transmit fixed wireless signals other than via satellite.
An antenna that is designed to receive local television broadcast signals. Antennas used for AM/FM radio, amateur (“ham”) radio, CB radio, Digital Audio Radio Services (“DARS”) or antennas used as part of a hub to relay signals among multiple locations are not covered by these rules.

What Types of Properties Are Covered?

Under the OTARD rules, an owner or a tenant has the right to install an antenna (that meets size limitations) on property that he owns or over which he has exclusive use or control. This includes single family homes, condominiums, cooperatives, townhomes and manufactured homes. In the case of condominiums, cooperatives and rental properties, the rules apply to “exclusive use” areas, like terraces, balconies or patios. “Exclusive use” refers to an area of the property that only the renter and people allowed by the renter may enter and use. If the area is shared with others or accessible without the renter’s permission, it is not considered to be an exclusive use area.
(( If thers is no areas that any renter has for Exclusive use areas in your apartments))
OTARD rules do not apply to common areas that are owned by a landlord, a community association or jointly by condominium owners. These common areas may include the roof or exterior walls of a multiple dwelling unit. Under certain conditions, if a common antenna is available for use by residents, then the community association or landlord may prohibit the installation of an individually-owned antenna or satellite dish, provided the signal quality from the central antenna is as good as the signal quality from an individually-owned antenna or dish, and the costs of using the central antenna are no greater than the costs of an individually-owned antenna or dish.
((then by by satellites))

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#1002 OFFLINE   Lord Vader

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 10:53 PM

I don't believe any of this was ever in dispute.

FAITH: I find the lack of it disturbing.

Opinions are my own but should be those of all Americans, who would be much better off intellectually, psychologically, and emotionally if that were the case.


#1003 OFFLINE   iceman2a

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 10:05 AM

I was looking up laws on the removal of the dish and wires.

According to Federal Communication Commission:

What Types of Antennas Are Covered Under the OTARD Rules?

The following antennas or dishes are covered by these rules:

A "dish" antenna one meter (39.37 inches) or less in diameter (or any size dish if located in Alaska), designed to receive direct broadcast satellite service, including direct-to-home satellite service, or to receive or transmit fixed wireless signals via satellite.
An antenna that is one meter or less in diameter and is designed to receive video programming services via broadband radio service (wireless cable), or to receive or transmit fixed wireless signals other than via satellite.
An antenna that is designed to receive local television broadcast signals. Antennas used for AM/FM radio, amateur (“ham”) radio, CB radio, Digital Audio Radio Services (“DARS”) or antennas used as part of a hub to relay signals among multiple locations are not covered by these rules.

What Types of Properties Are Covered?

Under the OTARD rules, an owner or a tenant has the right to install an antenna (that meets size limitations) on property that he owns or over which he has exclusive use or control. This includes single family homes, condominiums, cooperatives, townhomes and manufactured homes. In the case of condominiums, cooperatives and rental properties, the rules apply to “exclusive use” areas, like terraces, balconies or patios. “Exclusive use” refers to an area of the property that only the renter and people allowed by the renter may enter and use. If the area is shared with others or accessible without the renter’s permission, it is not considered to be an exclusive use area.
(( If thers is no areas that any renter has for Exclusive use areas in your apartments))
OTARD rules do not apply to common areas that are owned by a landlord, a community association or jointly by condominium owners. These common areas may include the roof or exterior walls of a multiple dwelling unit. Under certain conditions, if a common antenna is available for use by residents, then the community association or landlord may prohibit the installation of an individually-owned antenna or satellite dish, provided the signal quality from the central antenna is as good as the signal quality from an individually-owned antenna or dish, and the costs of using the central antenna are no greater than the costs of an individually-owned antenna or dish.
((then by by satellites))


:confused: :confused: :confused:

What?
What am I missing?
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Slimline5 ODU
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2 H21-200

#1004 ONLINE   harsh

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 08:52 AM

I was looking up laws on the removal of the dish and wires.

OTARD doesn't specify the removal of anything. Quite the opposite, it empowers the tenant do do what they need to do to receive a signal.

The "law" you're looking for must be incorporated (directly or by reference) into the rental/lease contract. Most contracts have some manner of no attachments or restoration to original condition clause.

If your contract doesn't include any such language, you're out of luck.

Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. -- JFK


#1005 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 10:02 AM

Why do not keep dish and wires ? - your next tenant most likely would be interested in sat TV.

#1006 OFFLINE   Phil T

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 11:20 AM

My daughter got notice Tuesday to remove her dish by Thursday because the apartment complex wants to replace the deck railing. (glad she wasn't on vacation). They also notified her they will be enforcing rules that the dish cannot be attached to any part of the building, tripod only. This sucks for her because I have tried a tripod and it will not work because of the soffit overhang. I installed a DirecTV rail mount that has worked fine for 2 years. The dish has to be as close to the rail as possible to clear the soffit. Even 1 ft. difference gives her LOS. Any ideas on how to get the 2" pipe as close to the rail as possible without touching it? Could Comcast be behind this because this will probably eliminate 20+ dishes that are rail mounted. Funny they have no issue with Comcast drilling holes and running wires everywhere. :(

#1007 OFFLINE   VDP07

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 11:50 AM

......Could Comcast be behind this because this will probably eliminate 20+ dishes that are rail mounted. Funny they have no issue with Comcast drilling holes and running wires everywhere. :(


Wouldn't suprise me if that were the case. I used to service many customers at a local 360 unit complex. About 3 years ago, without giving any reason, the manager informed me that I was no longer allowed to install dishes on the property. I had become friends with one of the maintainance guys over the previous few years. He told me that the manager had struck a deal with Charter Comm. where he would get paid up to $100 for each resident that signed up for service. A large number of the tenants are South Asian and Arabic. The manager would not even allow me to post info about DISH's new DishWorld IPTV International Programming service. (no dish required)

#1008 OFFLINE   carl6

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 03:06 PM

Any ideas on how to get the 2" pipe as close to the rail as possible without touching it?


You could probably build some type of custom rig that sits on a non-pen base. Weight the base enough to keep the assembly from tipping toward the extension arm the dish would be mounted on.

O-----| extension arm
_____|___ base

#1009 OFFLINE   Beerstalker

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 10:05 AM

I'm assuming Carl is talking about something like this non-pen mount.
http://www.solidsign...ku=615798395483

Not that actual one though, since it is only a 1.66" OD tube (Slimline needs a 2" tube).
Sometimes when I reflect back on all the beer I drink I feel ashamed. Then I look into the glass and think about the workers in the brewery and all of their hopes and dreams. If I didn’t drink this beer, they might be out of work and their dreams would be shattered. Then I say to myself, "It is better that I drink this beer and let their dreams come true than be selfish and worry about my liver."
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#1010 OFFLINE   Phil T

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 11:04 AM

Thanks for the ideas! I ordered this one yesterday. It is a little pricey but will be worth it if I get it to work. I am concerned at the 3 ft height. The pole I use now is 4 ft to clear the railing. I might have to do some modification to get the dish at a 4ft height.

http://www.amazon.co...ting dish mount

#1011 OFFLINE   Lord Vader

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 11:47 AM

I'm assuming Carl is talking about something like this non-pen mount.
http://www.solidsign...ku=615798395483

Not that actual one though, since it is only a 1.66" OD tube (Slimline needs a 2" tube).


That's the one I used in my setup. Pics are located earlier in this thread.

FAITH: I find the lack of it disturbing.

Opinions are my own but should be those of all Americans, who would be much better off intellectually, psychologically, and emotionally if that were the case.


#1012 OFFLINE   Phil T

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 12:11 PM

I saw your picks (Page 27). I have to have a straight pole and the LNB will have to extend over the rail to hit the satellites. The letter I saw yesterday said the dish could not be attached but nothing about extending over.

It is funny that I saw at least 5 installations on apartments that had the new railing installed. Their enforcement person is going to be busy. :D

#1013 OFFLINE   Lord Vader

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 12:13 PM

I believe that technically, nothing is permitted to extend over and that a landlord can require one's entire dish, including the LNB, to be within one's exclusive property. Nevertheless, I'd let your landlord worry about that.

FAITH: I find the lack of it disturbing.

Opinions are my own but should be those of all Americans, who would be much better off intellectually, psychologically, and emotionally if that were the case.


#1014 OFFLINE   Phil T

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 12:39 PM

I also saw something so dumb I could not believe it yesterday. When I took down the dish I needed to set up a OTA antenna (rabbit ears) so my daughter at least has some TV to watch. Her Westinghouse 46" LCD TV would not do a OTA channel scan without getting an access code from Westinghouse! I did a web search and found you could sent a text message to get a code. Tried that and it did not work, but they gave you a phone number to call. Tried that and it didn't work but it gave a web address. Finally was able to get a code by putting in the model number and serial number. Why in the world would they require an access code to get a TV to scan for OTA channels? I don't get it.

#1015 OFFLINE   studechip

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 01:25 PM

I also saw something so dumb I could not believe it yesterday. When I took down the dish I needed to set up a OTA antenna (rabbit ears) so my daughter at least has some TV to watch. Her Westinghouse 46" LCD TV would not do a OTA channel scan without getting an access code from Westinghouse! I did a web search and found you could sent a text message to get a code. Tried that and it did not work, but they gave you a phone number to call. Tried that and it didn't work but it gave a web address. Finally was able to get a code by putting in the model number and serial number. Why in the world would they require an access code to get a TV to scan for OTA channels? I don't get it.


I've never heard of something so stupid. Okay, I have, but this is right up there.

#1016 OFFLINE   jadebox

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 04:25 PM

I also saw something so dumb I could not believe it yesterday. When I took down the dish I needed to set up a OTA antenna (rabbit ears) so my daughter at least has some TV to watch. Her Westinghouse 46" LCD TV would not do a OTA channel scan without getting an access code from Westinghouse! I did a web search and found you could sent a text message to get a code. Tried that and it did not work, but they gave you a phone number to call. Tried that and it didn't work but it gave a web address. Finally was able to get a code by putting in the model number and serial number. Why in the world would they require an access code to get a TV to scan for OTA channels? I don't get it.


According to their web site:

Q: Why do I need to enter a tuner code for my television to receive over-the-air broadcasts?
A: This enables Westinghouse users to choose a feature that most TV users do not use, receiving over-the-air broadcasts. This choice simplifies TV operation for users who do not intend to receive such broadcasts, such as by avoiding unnecessary channel scans. The access code input enables Westinghouse to accurately count the end users who seek to enable the ATSC tuner, for purposes of royalty reporting (but for the end user, this activation is free). This looks to the future of television design: Digital televisions are beginning to include installable hardware or software features.


http://westinghoused...ctivation-faqs/

I love the little editorial at the end - "this looks to the future of television design." They are comparing this to downloadable apps and plug-in hardware. It's a feature! :-)

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#1017 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 05:20 PM

They are just try to monetize where is no money should be spend by customers. Bad, very bad.

#1018 OFFLINE   Phil T

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 09:33 PM

Nice find jadebox! I did not see that when I was searching for the code.

#1019 OFFLINE   Herdfan

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 09:36 AM

The access code input enables Westinghouse to accurately count the end users who seek to enable the ATSC tuner, for purposes of royalty reporting (but for the end user, this activation is free).


Can they really get away with only paying ATSC tuner royalties on the customers that actually use the tuner?

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#1020 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 09:58 AM

Can they really get away with only paying ATSC tuner royalties on the customers that actually use the tuner?


Nay. Only counts officially activated tuners. Regardless of using or not.

#1021 OFFLINE   bigglebowski

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 10:13 AM

Entering a code to use a basic feature of the TV has got to be the dumbest feature that an end user has to deal with. Of course this would apply to somebody just programming a basic cable TV lineup with it too, not just ATSC.

At the price point of Westinghouse, got to wonder if more people are using it this way rather than set top box.

#1022 OFFLINE   HarleyD

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 01:56 PM

I would bet that they are considering offering Monitor TVs that have no onboard ATSC tuners. That would eliminate any ATSC tuner royalties and would probably be all a large segment of the public wants or needs. This use of codes that they have to issue for performing channel scans allows them to quantify the market before they gear up for any kind of manufacturing numbers.

I know in my kitchen I have a simple 23" ASUS Monitor hooked up via HDMI with a pair of cheap USB powered speakers providing sound. It was cheaper than a full-featured TV would have been.

And I can honestly say I don't use the ATSC tuners on any of my other sets. I get quite a range of OTA channels but I am using the AM21 instead of onboard tuners for the purpose of integration with my satellite service.

I've wondered for a while why more manufacturers didn't have a wider offering of TV size monitors. Maybe the industry is finally figuring it out.

The ATSC tuner could become and add-on product.
"Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible."
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#1023 OFFLINE   gov

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 10:27 AM

Early plasma sets had no OTA, quite a few early HD sets had only NTSC/analog cable tuners. Olevia had a few models with no tuner of any kind. I have a client that bought a set at an AF PX and it is such an off brand beast it had no tuner of any kind, no speakers, and the remote code has never been included in any Dish remote. Hate these sets, and I'm not happy reading here about the new Westinghouse tuner access code. They are now on my don't buy/don't recommend/get rid ASAP list. I encounter enough unforeseen problems without 'idjit' manufacturers going out of their way to make installs/servicing harder.

Seems like I recall the neighbors down the street from me have a ED set with no tuners, and no speakers. Glad ED sets never got popular, continuing price drops of 720Ps and 1080s run them from the marketplace.

#1024 OFFLINE   kenglish

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 12:08 PM

Seems kinda funny that they would blame this on "paying royalties", since they give you a code right on the screen for QAM.
QAM uses similar royalties, so they must be already paying them.

I wonder how many people would never activate their tuner, and then curse their local stations for not being there in an emergency, when Cable TV and satellite are not working.

We joked about this in the newsroom, and figured it's "like a fire extinguisher that has to be activated by phone or internet". :rolleyes:

#1025 OFFLINE   HarleyD

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 01:18 PM

The difference being that a vast number of folks have no antenna at all and couldn't use their ATSC tuners in an emergency if they wanted to.

For most people, being cable subscribers, the display and QAM tuner are all they need, and if you subscribe to satellite you don't even need the QAM tuner.

If you could get the same set for $50+ less without an ATSC tuner that you wouldn't/couldn't use would you not consider it?
"Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible."
--Frank Zappa




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