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Guest Message by DevFuse

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The Battle is on! My landlord now demands I remove my dish


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1048 replies to this topic

#1021 OFFLINE   bigglebowski

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 10:13 AM

Entering a code to use a basic feature of the TV has got to be the dumbest feature that an end user has to deal with. Of course this would apply to somebody just programming a basic cable TV lineup with it too, not just ATSC.

At the price point of Westinghouse, got to wonder if more people are using it this way rather than set top box.

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#1022 OFFLINE   HarleyD

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 01:56 PM

I would bet that they are considering offering Monitor TVs that have no onboard ATSC tuners. That would eliminate any ATSC tuner royalties and would probably be all a large segment of the public wants or needs. This use of codes that they have to issue for performing channel scans allows them to quantify the market before they gear up for any kind of manufacturing numbers.

I know in my kitchen I have a simple 23" ASUS Monitor hooked up via HDMI with a pair of cheap USB powered speakers providing sound. It was cheaper than a full-featured TV would have been.

And I can honestly say I don't use the ATSC tuners on any of my other sets. I get quite a range of OTA channels but I am using the AM21 instead of onboard tuners for the purpose of integration with my satellite service.

I've wondered for a while why more manufacturers didn't have a wider offering of TV size monitors. Maybe the industry is finally figuring it out.

The ATSC tuner could become and add-on product.
"Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible."
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#1023 OFFLINE   gov

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 10:27 AM

Early plasma sets had no OTA, quite a few early HD sets had only NTSC/analog cable tuners. Olevia had a few models with no tuner of any kind. I have a client that bought a set at an AF PX and it is such an off brand beast it had no tuner of any kind, no speakers, and the remote code has never been included in any Dish remote. Hate these sets, and I'm not happy reading here about the new Westinghouse tuner access code. They are now on my don't buy/don't recommend/get rid ASAP list. I encounter enough unforeseen problems without 'idjit' manufacturers going out of their way to make installs/servicing harder.

Seems like I recall the neighbors down the street from me have a ED set with no tuners, and no speakers. Glad ED sets never got popular, continuing price drops of 720Ps and 1080s run them from the marketplace.

#1024 OFFLINE   kenglish

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 12:08 PM

Seems kinda funny that they would blame this on "paying royalties", since they give you a code right on the screen for QAM.
QAM uses similar royalties, so they must be already paying them.

I wonder how many people would never activate their tuner, and then curse their local stations for not being there in an emergency, when Cable TV and satellite are not working.

We joked about this in the newsroom, and figured it's "like a fire extinguisher that has to be activated by phone or internet". :rolleyes:

#1025 OFFLINE   HarleyD

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 01:18 PM

The difference being that a vast number of folks have no antenna at all and couldn't use their ATSC tuners in an emergency if they wanted to.

For most people, being cable subscribers, the display and QAM tuner are all they need, and if you subscribe to satellite you don't even need the QAM tuner.

If you could get the same set for $50+ less without an ATSC tuner that you wouldn't/couldn't use would you not consider it?
"Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible."
--Frank Zappa

#1026 OFFLINE   kenglish

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 09:13 AM

Just because they "don't have an antenna" shouldn't always be a problem...
A couple of pieces of wire would work in an emergency.
Might not be perfect, but it would get them some info on what is going on.

#1027 OFFLINE   racermd

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 11:21 AM

Have you actually tried that? Tuning a digital OTA signal on an ATSC tuner isn't like an old analog NTSC tuner. You either get enough signal to get a picture or you get nothing at all. If you get into that hazy in-between area, you may get some blocks of picture sporadically with some choppy audio and that means you're close to getting enough signal to get a good picture.

But you're not going to get a fuzzy-but-readable picture with an ATSC tuner. A little bit of wire might be enough in a dense urban area where you're close to the transmission sources. But get out into the suburbs a little bit and you'll start needing proper antennas, maybe even directional ones, and possibly even a signal amplifier.

#1028 OFFLINE   Upstream

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 10:14 AM

I'm located about 35 miles away from the TV transmitters in my area. I have received digital signals using cheap rabbit ears available for less than $20 from Radio Shack or Walmart.

In case of emergency, if cable is out or sat dish is blown out of alignment, it is helpful to have OTA as a backup.

#1029 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 12:44 PM

Can we, please, stay on the topic ?
:backtotop:

#1030 OFFLINE   mikemyers

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 04:39 PM

I just read about half of this thread. It's fascinating, and I'm glad it worked out well in the long run.

I keep thinking though, that in a fight like this, one can "win the battle", but "lose the war". I've got a similar situation, sort of, in that people in my building hate having satellites interfere with how nice they want the building to look. If I get the FCC to force them to go along with something they don't want, life won't be as pleasant in the future as it has been.

Someone sent me a current list of all the DTV mounting systems, and one is a "non penetrating sled mount". I'm going to try to use that, assuming DTV can get me one. I'm hoping that the installer can find a good place on my balcony where the dish can see "over" the railing, but not be blocked by the concrete slab from the balcony over mine.

#1031 ONLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 04:04 AM

I just read about half of this thread. It's fascinating, and I'm glad it worked out well in the long run.

I keep thinking though, that in a fight like this, one can "win the battle", but "lose the war". I've got a similar situation, sort of, in that people in my building hate having satellites interfere with how nice they want the building to look. If I get the FCC to force them to go along with something they don't want, life won't be as pleasant in the future as it has been.

Someone sent me a current list of all the DTV mounting systems, and one is a "non penetrating sled mount". I'm going to try to use that, assuming DTV can get me one. I'm hoping that the installer can find a good place on my balcony where the dish can see "over" the railing, but not be blocked by the concrete slab from the balcony over mine.


You own or rent?

And you can always check solid signal for all kinds of mounts too.

#1032 OFFLINE   kenglish

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 11:45 AM

Have you actually tried that? Tuning a digital OTA signal on an ATSC tuner isn't like an old analog NTSC tuner. You either get enough signal to get a picture or you get nothing at all. If you get into that hazy in-between area, you may get some blocks of picture sporadically with some choppy audio and that means you're close to getting enough signal to get a good picture.

But you're not going to get a fuzzy-but-readable picture with an ATSC tuner. A little bit of wire might be enough in a dense urban area where you're close to the transmission sources. But get out into the suburbs a little bit and you'll start needing proper antennas, maybe even directional ones, and possibly even a signal amplifier.


Yes, I have tried all of that stuff. I've been playing with antennas for about 50 years, and I'm the "go-to-guy" in our DMA for antenna issues, having helped hundreds of people with reception issues.
I don't expect a clip lead to work in every instance, but some creative "playing" can often get enough signal in an emergency...clipping to a rain gutter, tossing an extension cord on to the roof and hooking to the plug, etc.
If the rooftop antenna is a passive one, you can just plug it in to the TV. If it's amplified, you can try a battery (I'd recommend that people out in the country make up a couple of adapter cables for this type of thing, in their "preparedness kit").
Many Hams are now using battery packs, and have standardized on Anderson Power-Pole connectors for everything. I always cut the cables on wall-warts, and add the Power-Poles in line on all my radio and TV gear. That way, you can just plug things in normally, or in to battery packs and distribution blocks.
I never rely on a single source for communications.

#1033 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 09:00 AM

All of the experience in makeshift antennas in an NTSC world doesn't much apply to the ATSC world. What used to be snowy or ghosted may now yield fits and spurts of noise and picture fragments.

If emergency reception is likely to be necessary, a workable system needs to be identified and tested well in advance of an event.

Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. -- JFK


#1034 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 09:54 AM

Would we return to the topic finally ?
:backtotop

#1035 OFFLINE   kenglish

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 10:27 AM

Would we return to the topic finally ?
:backtotop


We're just treading water, waiting for the latest update from Lord Vader. :)

#1036 OFFLINE   Lord Vader

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 12:31 PM

What is their to update? So far, all is calm.

FAITH: I find the lack of it disturbing.

Opinions are my own but should be those of all Americans, who would be much better off intellectually, psychologically, and emotionally if that were the case.


#1037 OFFLINE   kenglish

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 02:27 PM

That's what I figured...so, we all got off topic. :D

#1038 OFFLINE   Lord Vader

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 07:04 AM

I see Swanni has a piece on this issue here.


FAITH: I find the lack of it disturbing.

Opinions are my own but should be those of all Americans, who would be much better off intellectually, psychologically, and emotionally if that were the case.


#1039 OFFLINE   Lord Vader

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 05:49 PM

Two weeks ago I went to sign my lease renewal, and one of the forms they wanted me to sign was a "satellite addendum". So I tell the office gal, "This is moot, because what you have here in print is unenforceable and a violation of federal law. My signing it is really irrelevant because I'm not bound by this when it's contrary to the law."

 

I'm quickly gaining a reputation as a satellite dish instigator.  :grin:


FAITH: I find the lack of it disturbing.

Opinions are my own but should be those of all Americans, who would be much better off intellectually, psychologically, and emotionally if that were the case.


#1040 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 06:22 PM

what is in the form ? can you scan it and post here ?






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