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Manual recording for OTA subchannel with no guide info?


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36 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   FTA Michael

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Posted 13 May 2011 - 08:44 PM

One year later (http://www.dbstalk.c...ad.php?t=176337) I still have this problem.

First, Dish really ought to include listings for This and the other major sub-channels. Until that happens, my only choices to record a movie from the Denver This affiliate are recording a honking big hunk of time that includes the movie or doing without.

Dish response team and DBSTalk experts, are there any other good options?
Yes, FTABlog is active again. Why do you ask?

#2 OFFLINE   GravelChan

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Posted 13 May 2011 - 09:34 PM

One year later (http://www.dbstalk.c...ad.php?t=176337) I still have this problem.

First, Dish really ought to include listings for This and the other major sub-channels. Until that happens, my only choices to record a movie from the Denver This affiliate are recording a honking big hunk of time that includes the movie or doing without.

Dish response team and DBSTalk experts, are there any other good options?


You have to set up a manual timer. Press DVR three times, Timers, Manual timer, after you enter the channel to record you can enter start/end times.

#3 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 13 May 2011 - 09:53 PM

You could also try pestering Dish to add your OTA info to the uplink.

I have OTA EPG data for my "This" sub-channel in my DMA... so some of us have the EPG data while others don't.

I assume you do subscribe to locals via Dish in order to get the EPG data... and Dish carries locals in your market? That being the case, it's a matter of enough people bugging them to add the EPG data for the subchannels.

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#4 OFFLINE   pboggini

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Posted 11 July 2011 - 04:19 PM

Has anyone been successful in getting Dish to turn on the EPG data for their locals? I'm in a slightly different situation in that we have an old grandfathered in config where we don't have the locals since we've been getting them OTA all this time. Sounds like they don't offer than anymore but they've let us keep it. Anyway, for about a week, we were getting the guide info for the OTA channels but that went away a couple of days ago. Just wondering if anyone had any success in convincing Dish that they should flip this bit for us and keep it that way. I know that they are probably preferring to get the extra $$ for the locals but since they don't carry all the sub channels and I'd likely not get the quality I get from OTA, I'd prefer to just get guide info and not have them need to send me the locals.

Just hoping to get an idea on what response folks have gotten on this subject from Dish.

thanks peterb

#5 OFFLINE   CCarncross

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Posted 11 July 2011 - 10:28 PM

My understanding was always if you didnt pay for locals, you didnt get the guide data for OTA locals....was that not accurate or has something changed?

#6 OFFLINE   Ray C@DISH Network

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 09:38 AM

pboggini,

The EPG information available for OTA channels is streamed from our satellites along with the channel frequencies. When you subscribe to locals from us and you have an OTA connected, some of the EPG is provided for the OTA EPG but not all information. Normally you are not able to get OTA local EPG without the local feed from us so I don't know how you were able to get it for that short duration but that is the reason you do not get any EPG information now. If you have any further questions, please let us know.

#7 OFFLINE   Gio

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 10:05 AM

I received the EPG for about a week also and now it is gone as of a couple of days ago.

#8 OFFLINE   pboggini

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 10:29 AM

It seems reasonable that you'd stream the EPG info for the locals that someone subscribes to but since Dish doesn't provide all the sub channels, I prefer to get this OTA. Now, I know Dish knows how to get the EPG info from OTA because:

1) I have one of those $40 ATSC->NTSC boxes made by Dish that does this and
2) I was getting EPG info w/o subscribing to locals for a couple of weeks

So, I don't think it's a matter of getting the feed from the satellite, rather I think it's a matter of allowing the OTA broadcast EPG to show up in the guide rather than blocking it. I'm assuming this is a bit that gets flipped when they enable locals otherwise you'd just get EPG info for the channels that Dish provides and not the others which would be a bit odd.

I'd love to see Dish flip that bit for long time customers like me who are getting locals OTA rather than blocking it.

peterb

#9 OFFLINE   CCarncross

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 10:37 AM

Pony up the fee for locals like everyone else and you can have the guide data...you probably weren't supposed to be getting the data anyway...

#10 OFFLINE   pboggini

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 10:47 AM

Some of us not spend money unnecessarily. Yea, I know, I'm a dying bread but I already get the channels for free (well not free, I bought the antenna and put it up) and the broadcasters already send it for free. Dish charging for something that is given out for free seems a bit odd. I totally get it if i couldn't get locals and I got them from Dish, I'd be willing to pay. But, I'm not one of those suckers who just plops down money because someone else thinks it's a good idea. I'm fine with not having the EPG, I got along w/o it for awhile but it does seem a bit odd to me that it's out there for free and Dish is blocking it.

peterb

#11 OFFLINE   CCarncross

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 12:49 PM

They do not use the PSIP data, they buy their data from Tribune just like Directv does...this is the way both sat providers have always done it...it costs them money to get the guide data the way they do, they pass that cost onto the customer, and have been doing it for years...

#12 OFFLINE   pboggini

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 01:19 PM

Right, that's for the EPG data for the channels they provide which is a subset of the OTA's in my market at least likely others. My point is that the OTA channels already broadcast the EPG info (you can debate which is better and likely the Tribune stuff is better, shrug, but there is free EPG data being sent to an input attached to the 722. This is being blocked (I always assumed it, now I think it's been proven sine I had it for 2 weeks) by Dish. As mentioned, if I couldn't get locals, I'd be happy to pay Dish for them and would understand the corresponding costs for getting said signal and EPG info. I'm supplying my receiver with locals bearing the costs myself since it gets me locals to any TV attached to that cable and the corresponding OTA EPG info (which the TV's connected directly to that get). I just wish Dish wouldn't deliberately block that info in the hopes that I'd balk and pay for locals that I don't need. It's too bad others just caved and bought them since that rewards Dish for doing this. Oh well, it's their choice.

peterb

#13 OFFLINE   Michael P

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 03:31 PM

One year later (http://www.dbstalk.c...ad.php?t=176337) I still have this problem.

First, Dish really ought to include listings for This and the other major sub-channels. Until that happens, my only choices to record a movie from the Denver This affiliate are recording a honking big hunk of time that includes the movie or doing without.

Dish response team and DBSTalk experts, are there any other good options?

If you pay for your locals you will get some, but not all the subchannel guide data. In my DMA I get the data for THIS on WUAB 43.2.

Unfortunately there is still no data for Antenna TV on WJW 8.2. I understand the Antenna TV guide data is in the stream for other DMA's, why not for Cleveland?

I brought this up earlier in the year to a DIRT member when Antenna TV was brand new. I find it odd that THIS guide data came on the second day it was on the air. I wonder why there is this disparity? Could it be the ownership of THIS or WUAB (or both) pulled some strings to get the guide activated?
An E* subscriber continuously since February 1997.

#14 OFFLINE   pboggini

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 03:38 PM

If I subscribe to my locals I will not just get some of the EPG info, I'll get some of the channels.:-). I've had Dish for over 12 years and back then the only locals were the big 4 and a national PBS. At that time, I decided that in order to get all my locals (two PBS and two independent [ok WB and UPN back then]) I needed an antenna. I purchased the equipment and have been receiving locals since. Before we got the 722, I had a converter box made by Dish to convert the digital signal to analog and I got EPG info. When I got the 722, I figured I would too. Too bad Dish blocks it, sigh. Anyway, if Dish had all the channels and sub channels for my DMA and all the EPG info, then it might be worth the money to pony up. But, since they don't have everything, it's not.

peterb

#15 OFFLINE   Michael P

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 05:07 PM

If I subscribe to my locals I will not just get some of the EPG info, I'll get some of the channels.:-). I've had Dish for over 12 years and back then the only locals were the big 4 and a national PBS. At that time, I decided that in order to get all my locals (two PBS and two independent [ok WB and UPN back then]) I needed an antenna. I purchased the equipment and have been receiving locals since. Before we got the 722, I had a converter box made by Dish to convert the digital signal to analog and I got EPG info. When I got the 722, I figured I would too. Too bad Dish blocks it, sigh. Anyway, if Dish had all the channels and sub channels for my DMA and all the EPG info, then it might be worth the money to pony up. But, since they don't have everything, it's not.

peterb

You get a lot more local TV today delivered by Dish's satellites. Nearly every OTA station's main feed in SD, plus the "big 4" networks plus PBS in HD (at least in the larger markets). I even get a station my antenna could never pick up that is in my DMA.
An E* subscriber continuously since February 1997.

#16 OFFLINE   pboggini

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 06:24 PM

So I wasn't overly clear. When I first got dish I only got the 4 main networks and national PBS. Now, they have all the main stations but none of the substations. So I still get more channels via antenna in both HD and SD just not the guide info on the 722. The TVs with both dish and antenna feed, tv2 get the guide info. My beef is blocking something coming in. If the had all the subchannels and the guide info, it might be worth it.

Peterb

#17 OFFLINE   scooper

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 07:11 PM

So I wasn't overly clear. When I first got dish I only got the 4 main networks and national PBS. Now, they have all the main stations but none of the substations. So I still get more channels via antenna in both HD and SD just not the guide info on the 722. The TVs with both dish and antenna feed, tv2 get the guide info. My beef is blocking something coming in. If the had all the subchannels and the guide info, it might be worth it.

Peterb


When I first got Dish - there were few if any locals - it was a BIG DEAL to me when the Raleigh Big 4 were first available. Combining that with the national PBS, and the Superstations for WB / UPN - I was in hog heaven - it meant I could completely cutoff cable.

As for now - there's a good possibility that Dish maybe carrying the channel guide for at least your main stations (and maybe even their subchannels) - at least Stuart has said they carry our Raleigh Durham ones. As for the ones they don't - well - there's always online guides, and then you would program your DVR like a standard VCR - channel, Start time, duration - based on guide info you got elsewhere
You CAN put antennas on your owned and/or controlled property...

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

#18 OFFLINE   pboggini

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 11:58 AM

So yea, I know all that. Dish does not have any of the sub channels for my DMA nor my in-laws from what I can tell. There are two sources for guide info, the one Dish uses and the ones the OTA's send out. I don't mind not having the one Dish uses (and pays for) since I'm not paying Dish for locals. I do mind Dish blocking the one's the OTA's send out for "free" in addition to the OTA signals. To me, I'm looking to use something that the OTA's are providing for free (sure it's probably not as good as what Dish pays for which I'm fine with) and something that I had for a couple of weeks until Dish likely discovered and started blocking again.

This tells me that 1) it's available, 2) Dish can unblock just this w/o having to activate the locals and 3) they've made the choice to link the two to encourage folks to purchase locals that they may or may not actually need.

To repeat, one has choices on how to get locals. They are:

1) Dish, get likely all the main channels but no sub channels from what I see. Get guide info that Dish pays for. Since Dish pays carriage fees to the broadcasters, I'm cool with having to pay for this solution.

2) OTA, get all the channels broadcast including sub channels and guide info (which may or may not be as good). This is "free" assuming one pays for the antenna, cable, etc.

I've done 2 since when I signed up Dish did not have all the mains and since I wanted/needed channels that Dish didn't have. I would have hoped that Dish wouldn't use a tactic to try to encourage me to buy something I really don't need to get something I should get.

If anyone at Dish is reading this, I hope you can see what I'm talking about and encourage your company to not block something that the OTA's are sending out for their users to use.

peterb

#19 OFFLINE   scooper

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 12:56 PM

The other point is that if you change your current package - you won't have any choice but to take locals. We're talking the Top xxx / Dish America xxx packages that I'm pretty sure of on this.
You CAN put antennas on your owned and/or controlled property...

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

#20 OFFLINE   CCarncross

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 01:43 PM

So yea, I know all that. Dish does not have any of the sub channels for my DMA nor my in-laws from what I can tell. There are two sources for guide info, the one Dish uses and the ones the OTA's send out. I don't mind not having the one Dish uses (and pays for) since I'm not paying Dish for locals. I do mind Dish blocking the one's the OTA's send out for "free" in addition to the OTA signals. To me, I'm looking to use something that the OTA's are providing for free (sure it's probably not as good as what Dish pays for which I'm fine with) and something that I had for a couple of weeks until Dish likely discovered and started blocking again.

This tells me that 1) it's available, 2) Dish can unblock just this w/o having to activate the locals and 3) they've made the choice to link the two to encourage folks to purchase locals that they may or may not actually need.

To repeat, one has choices on how to get locals. They are:

1) Dish, get likely all the main channels but no sub channels from what I see. Get guide info that Dish pays for. Since Dish pays carriage fees to the broadcasters, I'm cool with having to pay for this solution.

2) OTA, get all the channels broadcast including sub channels and guide info (which may or may not be as good). This is "free" assuming one pays for the antenna, cable, etc.

I've done 2 since when I signed up Dish did not have all the mains and since I wanted/needed channels that Dish didn't have. I would have hoped that Dish wouldn't use a tactic to try to encourage me to buy something I really don't need to get something I should get.

If anyone at Dish is reading this, I hope you can see what I'm talking about and encourage your company to not block something that the OTA's are sending out for their users to use.

peterb


I believe you're still missing the point that the OTA tuner offerings from DISH arent blocking the what you call "free guide info already in the OTA data stream", the receivers dont understand it, because they were designed to use the data that DISH provides....besides isnt there there only like 2 hours of guide data in the PSIP?




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