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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Dish Needs to Get Moving on 3D


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615 replies to this topic

Poll: What is your current interest in 3D? (155 member(s) have cast votes)

What is your current interest in 3D?

  1. I own a 3DTV and am anxious for more 3D content (38 votes [24.36%])

    Percentage of vote: 24.36%

  2. I don't yet own a 3DTV but am planning to buy within the next 6 months (5 votes [3.21%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.21%

  3. I own a 3DTV but am not really interested in 3D content (18 votes [11.54%])

    Percentage of vote: 11.54%

  4. I don't own a 3DTV and am not planning on investing in 3D in the near future (95 votes [60.90%])

    Percentage of vote: 60.90%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#151 OFFLINE   evnow

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Posted 03 September 2011 - 12:20 PM

How much 3D is there on DirecTV?

I know they have ESPN3D... but is there anything else besides PPVs in 3D?

Well, when we started on HDTV - we had but 2 channels - mostly with upconverted content. 3D is slightly better (or about the same) now on Directv.

But the problem is - Dish not only doesn't have anything - they also don't seem to have any plans of getting any. So, when the HDNet comes up with their 3D channels, Dish won't have it. FTV is now out of dish and they want to go to 3D - so likely they will go with Directv.

Basically, Dish no longer seems to be competing with Directv at the technical edge. They just want to get people who want programming some 5 or 10 bucks cheaper.

Edited by evnow, 03 September 2011 - 12:31 PM.


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#152 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 03 September 2011 - 01:48 PM

From what I can see, it doesn't seem like there is much 3D content available right now.

Also... not all Dish receivers can support 3D... and consumers are not likely to want to pay for that upgrade right now either.

It just doesn't seem like a smart investment to me at the moment. IF 3D ever takes off, Dish could add channels the next day and still be right in the mix... so I don't see any urgency here.

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#153 OFFLINE   tampa8

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Posted 03 September 2011 - 03:11 PM

I still see replies from those who want 3d when asked just how much is available not have good answers. It's mostly this channel is planning to or when this channel launches. The amount of 3d let alone the overall disinterest by most according to most everything I read online tells me Dish is better to wait on this and continue in adding HD and channels like MLB as they are doing.

#154 OFFLINE   evnow

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Posted 03 September 2011 - 04:02 PM

From what I can see, it doesn't seem like there is much 3D content available right now.

Also... not all Dish receivers can support 3D... and consumers are not likely to want to pay for that upgrade right now either.

It just doesn't seem like a smart investment to me at the moment. IF 3D ever takes off, Dish could add channels the next day and still be right in the mix... so I don't see any urgency here.


Replace 3D above with HD - it is just deja vu all over again.

Except, Dish was not a laggard in HD. Infact HD was a lot more of an investment - one HD channel ate the bandwidth of 6 SD channels.

I still see replies from those who want 3d when asked just how much is available not have good answers. It's mostly this channel is planning to or when this channel launches. The amount of 3d let alone the overall disinterest by most according to most everything I read online tells me Dish is better to wait on this and continue in adding HD and channels like MLB as they are doing.


You could have said exactly the same thing with HD a few years back (and you probably did).

Dish can continue to wait and gather the reputation of a laggard, bleed customers & market share hoping to earn all that back "sometime" in the future. There is no place for laggards in the marketplace. You can never underestimate the speed at which markets can take off.

Dish already has a problem with the current channels being Directv exclusives. If Dish continues to show no interest content providers will not hesitate to sign exclusive multiyear deals with Directv.

Edited by evnow, 03 September 2011 - 04:10 PM.


#155 OFFLINE   356B

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Posted 03 September 2011 - 04:20 PM

From what I can see, it doesn't seem like there is much 3D content available right now.

Also... not all Dish receivers can support 3D... and consumers are not likely to want to pay for that upgrade right now either.

It just doesn't seem like a smart investment to me at the moment. IF 3D ever takes off, Dish could add channels the next day and still be right in the mix... so I don't see any urgency here.

Every other movie this summer offered 3D......the horror, fantasy and cartoon crowd must be buying tickets or the movie makers wouldn't be messing with it.
Thank you and
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#156 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 03 September 2011 - 05:39 PM

Replace 3D above with HD - it is just deja vu all over again.


I think you are both right and wrong here :)

You are right... some said the same thing about HD too... and to be honest, as much as I love my HD... HD was available via OTA in my market before anywhere else since WRAL was the first channel to broadcast digital HD OTA in the US... but when I signed on with Dish in 2002, I didn't even have an HDTV.

I didn't get an HDTV for another year or two after that... and didn't get an HD receiver from Dish until another year after that... by which time arguably HD had been around nearly 10 years! And Dish was the HD leader at that time... with the 5 channels that were available!

So... IF you are going to make the comparison of 3D and HD... this 3D technology right now is barely a year or two old in terms of an available channel. Dish and DirecTV were nearly 10 years late to the HD party in some respects!

I would say waiting to see if 3D is around for 5 years might be prudent AND would still put Dish ahead of the HD adoption curve.

Infact HD was a lot more of an investment - one HD channel ate the bandwidth of 6 SD channels.


All things being equal, though... doesn't a 3D channel take the same space as 2 HD channels, given the left/right frames? Or is it not quite twice the bandwidth due to compression efficiency?

Every other movie this summer offered 3D......the horror, fantasy and cartoon crowd must be buying tickets or the movie makers wouldn't be messing with it.


Perhaps... but how is the box office doing on all those movies?

Avatar was a big hit, mostly because people liked the movie AND also because it was 3D... so Hollywood jumped into 3D development after that and we are seeing the fruits of that labor this summer... but I guarantee you if box office draw continue to underwhelm for most of those 3D films, we won't see the trend continue in subsequent years.

Like when a particular sitcom or drama hits it big... then next season each network tries 2 versions of that same formula... and most of them crash and burn. Check out the super-hero movie trend.

Marvel started with Blade, X-Men... Spider-Man, stumbled a bit with the first Hulk movie, then had Iron Man and has been back on a high... DC countered with another Superman that floundered and a Batman that hit highs, but had a Green Lantern that missed horribly this year.

As long as more super-hero movies make big money... they will keep making them... AND they will make more, even for less-popular characters... but a few more flops like Green Lantern, and Hollywood will decide to turn away from super-heroes again for a few years.

That's what has historically happened with 3D... It comes around, makes a splash, then gets overused for bad movies... then goes away again. It remains to be seen if 3D is here to stay this time OR is just another glitch.

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#157 OFFLINE   RAD

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Posted 03 September 2011 - 05:53 PM

Stewart, the side by side format that DBS and cable uses doesn't take anymore bandwidth then a 2D channel. A 1920x1080 channel effectively becomes a 960x1080 channel with each eye's picture getting half the frame.

See post My Setup for configuration info.


#158 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 03 September 2011 - 08:18 PM

Stewart, the side by side format that DBS and cable uses doesn't take anymore bandwidth then a 2D channel. A 1920x1080 channel effectively becomes a 960x1080 channel with each eye's picture getting half the frame.


Ah... ok, thanks for that. I knew of a wide range of 3D options... ranging from the half-res version to the full 1080p version.

I didn't know what the 3D channels on cable/sat might be using.

So... no bandwidth issue then... but 3D comes at the expense of trading away half of the horizontal resolution.

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#159 OFFLINE   RAD

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Posted 03 September 2011 - 08:34 PM

Ah... ok, thanks for that. I knew of a wide range of 3D options... ranging from the half-res version to the full 1080p version.

I didn't know what the 3D channels on cable/sat might be using.

So... no bandwidth issue then... but 3D comes at the expense of trading away half of the horizontal resolution.


NP.

And for folks that use passive 3D sets it gets even worst since they cut the resolution in half again.

See post My Setup for configuration info.


#160 OFFLINE   evnow

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Posted 03 September 2011 - 09:47 PM

So... IF you are going to make the comparison of 3D and HD... this 3D technology right now is barely a year or two old in terms of an available channel. Dish and DirecTV were nearly 10 years late to the HD party in some respects!

Well, Dish (and Directv) started HD broadcasts before you joined the crowd. Infact Dish was the leader.

The first HDTV set was on sale in Nov, 1998.

http://www.ce.org/Pr...EA_Pubs/928.asp

In January 1998, TV manufacturers showed off the first HDTVs at the Consumer Electronics Show (CES). By September, the first HDTV sets, from Mitsubishi and Panasonic, reached stores � just in time for the first HDTV network broadcasts, due to begin November 1. CBS was ahead of schedule when, on October 29, it broadcast the launch of the John Glenn space shuttle mission.


Dish released the first tuner in Jan, 1999 i.e. within 3 months ! Not after 10 years. I got Dish 6000 in 2000, as soon as it came out. IIRC, we had Showtime HD and HBO HD at that time.

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Dishnetwork

Investing for the future

In January 1999, the company released the industry's first High-definition television (HDTV) tuner. In August 2003, the company launched Echostar IX, the first satellite equipped with commercial Ka band payload for broadband service over the United States. This led the company in 2004 to be the first satellite TV service to offer local channels to all 50 states. In that year, the company also introduced the nation's first interactive TV multiple picture-in picture application for the Olympic Games, offering coverage from multiple channels at once. This year the company also acquired its 10 millionth customer.


When you consider the amount of hardware support now available - and at prices barely above 2D HD hardware, you have to wonder what Dish is upto. They have basically given up their challenge to Directv and happy to be the poor cousin of Directv.

Edited by evnow, 03 September 2011 - 09:58 PM.


#161 OFFLINE   evnow

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Posted 03 September 2011 - 10:05 PM

An amusing blast from the past.

http://www.hometheat...tvsattuners/67/

While DirecTV offers more sports programming, DISH Network offers as many or more movie channels and twice as many HDTV channels. OK, so "twice as many" means two more than the competition. DISH Network offers Showtime and HBO, a demo channel for retail displays, and a dedicated 24-hour pay-per-view movie channel. DirecTV offers only HBO and a second channel that displays demo material during the day for retailers and pay-per-view programs in the evening. Regardless, for high-definition-display-owning, non-sports-enthusiast movie lovers like me, the extra HD channels are a big bonus.



#162 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 04 September 2011 - 01:37 PM

But we're still talking about "early days"...

Even as your examples hold... there was a time when Dish had a couple of HD channels and DirecTV did not... but I don't remember gloom and doom predicted for DirecTV because Dish was "way ahead of them on HD" at that time.

That was my point... that there wasn't significant investment in HD until much later.

Dish has a receiver capable of 3D today... The 922 gets some 3D PPV movies. So... Dish has a 3D-capable receiver if you want one and some 3D viewing, limited to be sure.

DirecTV sounds like it has a couple of channels... and that's about it.

So... there just isn't leaps and bounds of 3D anywhere right now... and it is early in the game.

IF 3D is around in a few years and there are some more channels, then Dish will probably get on board then.

There's no need to make a huge investment now in something that may or may not be popular for the long-run.

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#163 OFFLINE   RAD

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Posted 04 September 2011 - 02:06 PM

DirecTV sounds like it has a couple of channels... and that's about it.


Just to be clear, DIRECTV has four full time 3D channels, n3D, 3net, ESPN 3D and a PPV channel, plus an On Demand channel. Yes a lot of the content gets repeated, just like the early days of HD, but it's growing.

See post My Setup for configuration info.


#164 OFFLINE   kucharsk

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Posted 07 September 2011 - 12:10 AM

Just FYI, AT&T UVerse recently dropped ESPN 3D, and ESPN has publicly stated that they're trying to determine whether the channel itself will continue operations.

3D movies are not doing well at the box office these days (the upcharge often being $5 or more) and 3D-capable sets just aren't selling all that well yet, or at least not for their 3D capabilities (e.g. most people buying 3D sets don't care about 3D but want the best TV, and that often comes with 3D capabilities.)

It's likely that while HD followed a more DVD-like adoption curve, 3D is likely to be more like Blu-ray, or worse, like DVD-A or SACD.

#165 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 07 September 2011 - 07:48 AM

... and ESPN has publicly stated that they're trying to determine whether the channel itself will continue operations.

A link to this public statement is imperative.

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#166 OFFLINE   evnow

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Posted 07 September 2011 - 08:37 AM

3D movies are not doing well at the box office these days (the upcharge often being $5 or more)

Ofcourse Hollywood is finding out that they still need to make decent movies. 3D won't sell by itself.

3D-capable sets just aren't selling all that well yet, or at least not for their 3D capabilities (e.g. most people buying 3D sets don't care about 3D but want the best TV, and that often comes with 3D capabilities.)

Speculation stated as fact.

#167 OFFLINE   HobbyTalk

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Posted 07 September 2011 - 02:03 PM

A few negative stories below... Was going to post some positive ones but couldn't find any.

http://www.businessi...on-3d-tv-2011-9

http://www.nypost.co...zccfxYzpDLXx4iN

http://www.dmwmedia....decline-in-2011

http://www.tvpredict...sonic090711.htm

http://www.homemedia...-adoption-23611

http://www.wired.co....sales-hollywood

http://www.usatoday....time/50296416/1

http://www.investorp...asonic-toshiba/
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#168 OFFLINE   Joe Bernardi

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Posted 07 September 2011 - 02:30 PM

I'm not interested in 3D, but those who are might enjoy reading this article about Toshiba's no-glasses 3D, viewable from 9 different locations.

http://news.cnet.com...et/?tag=nl.e702

#169 OFFLINE   Inkosaurus

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Posted 07 September 2011 - 06:34 PM

Majority of consumers always flock around the next big gimmick. 3d sales are floundering in there main market (theaters) already, i find it doubtful that many channels are really going to make the investment to offer 3d if things keep going the way they are. Especially with the few 3d channels we have around now not being anything particularly special.

Since the new wave of 3d movies there really have only been 3 or 4 movies to even do it right and make it worth the upsell (imo, avatar, Tron:legacy and a few others), the majority of everything else was just 3d tacked onto a movie to grab a sell (clash of the titans). Or just straight up gimmick garbage like Shark Night 3d and Piranha 3d.

People are getting tired of paying extra money to see Thors hammer thrown at you in one scene of a movie. Honestly, 3D is a big farse and im glad more and more people are starting to see its a big waste of time and money.

#170 OFFLINE   evnow

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Posted 07 September 2011 - 06:51 PM

A few negative stories below... Was going to post some positive ones but couldn't find any.

Find me a few positive stories about HD from around 2000 and I'll checkout the links you posted.

Majority of consumers always flock around the next big gimmick.

You mean like surround sound ?!

In reality few can really figure out right now what will happen in the future. You can look at the past and pull out examples to match your expectations. There is always a SACD for every BD.

The point is not whether 3D WILL succeed. The point is Dish should embrace the new format as an investment for the future - considering all the hardware support. Just like they did with HD (when the hardware support was much less). Nothing is certain in this world - success or failure of 3D is no different.

#171 OFFLINE   SayWhat?

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Posted 07 September 2011 - 07:04 PM

3D = BetaMax

Days are numbered from the start.
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#172 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 01:16 AM

The point is not whether 3D WILL succeed. The point is Dish should embrace the new format as an investment for the future


Actually, from a business standpoint... Dish should consider whether or not 3D will succeed before investing a lot of money.

IF they don't feel 3D is going to stay around or grow rapidly... then they would be fools to invest in it now.

IF 3D succeeds, then all the technology will be cheaper 5 years from now than it is today and Dish could save money by not being an early adopter themselves!

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#173 OFFLINE   AZ.

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 07:11 AM

3D = BetaMax

Days are numbered from the start.


??? Not even close!

BetaMax was top quality video, stereo, and the best pause in the industry, its only demise was due to hi quality it gave less recording time....So lets be honest, it was the cheap population that cared more about recording time than they did quality!!!!

Were that has anything to do with 3D is an apple to a orange!!

What about Lazer Disks?

#174 OFFLINE   RasputinAXP

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 07:15 AM

what about them? They're dead too. They were a high end product with low adoption and was surpassed by newer, cheaper technology.

Much like I expect the current batch of 3D TVs to go, really.

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#175 OFFLINE   evnow

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 08:33 AM

IF 3D succeeds, then all the technology will be cheaper 5 years from now than it is today and Dish could save money by not being an early adopter themselves!

Not really - remember they don't need to invest a lot.

The big problem Dish will have is people will leave in droves as 3D catches on and it is much more difficult (and costly) to get them back.

Also, more time Dish procrastinates, more channels will go Directv exclusive. Then, where is dish going to get content from ?

I see this as a low risk, low investment option.




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