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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Dish Needs to Get Moving on 3D


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615 replies to this topic

Poll: What is your current interest in 3D? (151 member(s) have cast votes)

What is your current interest in 3D?

  1. I own a 3DTV and am anxious for more 3D content (36 votes [23.68%])

    Percentage of vote: 23.68%

  2. I don't yet own a 3DTV but am planning to buy within the next 6 months (5 votes [3.29%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.29%

  3. I own a 3DTV but am not really interested in 3D content (17 votes [11.18%])

    Percentage of vote: 11.18%

  4. I don't own a 3DTV and am not planning on investing in 3D in the near future (94 votes [61.84%])

    Percentage of vote: 61.84%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#141 OFFLINE   RAD

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Posted 24 August 2011 - 04:41 AM

Saw yesterday that DirecTV is dropping ESPN 3D. Not many subscribers willing to pay for it.


Where did you see this? DIRECTV does not charge any extra for the 3D channels, you just need to have the HD access charge.

See post My Setup for configuration info.


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#142 OFFLINE   BillJ

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Posted 24 August 2011 - 09:46 AM

Where did you see this? DIRECTV does not charge any extra for the 3D channels, you just need to have the HD access charge.


You're right. My brain doesn't work well early in the morning. It was AT&T U-verse, not DirecTV. Sorry.

#143 OFFLINE   RAD

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Posted 24 August 2011 - 10:12 AM

You're right. My brain doesn't work well early in the morning. It was AT&T U-verse, not DirecTV. Sorry.


NP. Yea, charge $10/month for one channel and then they're surprised not that many folks sign up to take it.

See post My Setup for configuration info.


#144 OFFLINE   Paul Secic

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Posted 24 August 2011 - 12:22 PM

PBS has good OTA broadcasts that I receive, about 8 miles East of the Bay Bridge. 9.1-9.5. Hoping you can get OTA without additional stress!


I live behind The Bay Fair Mall and my neighbor put an digital antenna on his roof, but couldn't get any signals. I think we live too far away.

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#145 OFFLINE   HDlover

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Posted 24 August 2011 - 08:42 PM

DISH has 3D VOD on the 922 ... if one really wants 3D one can pay (revenue source) for an upgrade to a 922.

There are other upgrades to DISH's system which would be a greater revenue source and expanding 3D to other receivers.


I ment more than just an occasional movie. Like hbo-3d, espn3d, etc. Then people might upgrade.

#146 OFFLINE   evnow

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Posted 24 August 2011 - 09:38 PM

I ment more than just an occasional movie. Like hbo-3d, espn3d, etc. Then people might upgrade.


Right.

Not sure many people are gamers here (I'm not) - but it looks like gamers are going to 3D in a big way. We now have both NVidia and ATI supporting 3D with most of their cards. Many games are being made in 3D. That will drive the market.

The 3D projectors are coming down in price - with Optoma just announcing HD33 for just 1.5K - a 1080p DLP that does 3D.

I don't look at 3D as a gimick - no more than surround sound. It will just become part of the content and add another layer of realism.

#147 OFFLINE   wwtech

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Posted 02 September 2011 - 04:36 PM

At the moment 3D is an over hyped diverse non-established "universal" specification that is no different than the HDMI group, Betamax/VHS or Blu-ray/HDDisc fighting matches. It's the movie theaters that have a set, somewhat, format that may not translate to LCD 3D. It will to my DLP. Because that's what they are using.


Well, there are standards that everyone is using. Digital cinema have theirs, BluRay has it's standard, HDMI has a standard and satellite and cable distribution has one.

DLP in the cinema is not like a home DLP. Cinemas use full chips and polarizers, and 99% of the home DLPs use a standard called checkerboard. Nothing like each other.

Dish could adopt one of the pre-specs that may not work with your particular 3D TV because they're not the same.



No, the standard for satellite distribution (and cable) is Side By Side. It looks like a standard HD signal to all the equipment down to your receiver. ANY receiver that can output HD can output 3D. It may not be able to flag the video so the TV knows it is SbS, but that TV could be switched into 3D manually. I do it all the time.

Until they come up with a solid set specification, which means you may need to buy a new TV, it's basically a crap shoot/moot point. Although they do have several levels of hardware, i.e., HDMI 1.4 and the 4k DLP projection (which Mitsubishi uses) that is in place but may not work in trickle down conversion. But until they are firm standards on the market, it is foolish for any "3rd party" vendor (DISH) to latch on to a format.


No there is a standard. Any 3D TV made for the past year will work with any 3D source.
And what 4K is Mitsubishi using? I went to one of their demos, and they were using one chip and it was checkerboard.

It could end up being "not the one" in the end. It is way to early in the game for a group such as DISH to grab a format. If they what to broadcast something that is already 3D, I trust it may be "this image may not appear as intended".

PLUS, it is being found out that 3D may not be the best thing for the human condition. They have found may idiosyncrasies that the human body just can't assimilate to. For instance, Johnny Depp, as there are many, did not go to the opening of the last Pirates 3D premier, because he can not see 3D as it is at the moment. The situation is so early in its infancy for anyone to really jump in and go for it and expect it to last for the long run. But what with the fastly growing population of those that really want it, the process of finalizing and final standard shouldn't be long off.


There are plenty of stories of how 3D affects SOME people, but MOST of us see it just fine, and some of us even enjoy it. It just appears the haters are more vocal.

Again, they only standard that mattered was the HDMI and BluRay ones, and they have been set for over a year. I watched the World Cup last summer in side by side, and I and my friends enjoyed it.

The only thing that is killing 3D is the really bad movies that are being released. Most are awful. Most are for children. A lot are not even real 3D, but poor conversions from 2D to jump on the bandwagon. Those will give you a headache! The studios are not releasing 3D content as fast as the 2D releases. And some releases are at outrageous prices because they force you to buy 4 copies of the movie! (DVD, BluRay, 3D and the digital copy).

I wish Dish could at least get ESPN, but they are in a dispute with Disney, so no way. Discovery Networks also has a channel. And if it is a "no" for financial reasons, Panasonic is sponsoring a channel on DirecTV. Surely Charlie could get some of that money from Panasonic!

As for me, I hope to enjoy the US Open in 3D this weekend.

...sorry for the long winded post...

#148 OFFLINE   evnow

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Posted 02 September 2011 - 11:29 PM

After being with Dish for more than 10 years, I'm now actively thinking about jumping to Directv - because of lack of 3D channels. Not just lack of 3D channels - but they aren't even paying lip service.

Every new BD player, TV, Projector, AV receiver that is being made now (i.e. anything that isn't bottom of the barrel) now supports 3D. Not sure which planet Dish execs live on.

#149 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 03 September 2011 - 12:13 AM

After being with Dish for more than 10 years, I'm now actively thinking about jumping to Directv - because of lack of 3D channels. Not just lack of 3D channels - but they aren't even paying lip service.

Every new BD player, TV, Projector, AV receiver that is being made now (i.e. anything that isn't bottom of the barrel) now supports 3D. Not sure which planet Dish execs live on.


How much 3D is there on DirecTV?

I know they have ESPN3D... but is there anything else besides PPVs in 3D?

-- I like to go fast (not really)


#150 OFFLINE   RAD

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Posted 03 September 2011 - 06:18 AM

How much 3D is there on DirecTV?

I know they have ESPN3D... but is there anything else besides PPVs in 3D?


They have the n3D channel which they partner with Panasonic on. Tons of recycled (nicer way of saying repeats) but they do throw a new one out there every now and then. They also have the occasional special, I think the US Open tennis will be there and in the past they've done some other special sports programming, US Open golf last summer was another.

There is also the 3Net channel with is a partnership of Sony, Discovery and IMAX. They used to have three new programs every Friday, Saturday and Sunday but that hasn't happened for awhile, might just be because of 'summer reruns'.

There's also an On Demand channel, they used to have about 20 programs out there, now it's down to only two, that's very disappointing. It would be nice if they could get the rights to the 3D content that HBO and Starz has on their On Demand channels, probably that's hung up with $'s somewhere.

So far all this is free as long as you have HD Access (except for the PPV's) and any HR21/H21 or newer receiver can get the 3D channels, only the HR20/H20 can't and DIRECTV will swap those out for free if needed.

See post My Setup for configuration info.


#151 OFFLINE   evnow

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Posted 03 September 2011 - 12:20 PM

How much 3D is there on DirecTV?

I know they have ESPN3D... but is there anything else besides PPVs in 3D?

Well, when we started on HDTV - we had but 2 channels - mostly with upconverted content. 3D is slightly better (or about the same) now on Directv.

But the problem is - Dish not only doesn't have anything - they also don't seem to have any plans of getting any. So, when the HDNet comes up with their 3D channels, Dish won't have it. FTV is now out of dish and they want to go to 3D - so likely they will go with Directv.

Basically, Dish no longer seems to be competing with Directv at the technical edge. They just want to get people who want programming some 5 or 10 bucks cheaper.

Edited by evnow, 03 September 2011 - 12:31 PM.


#152 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 03 September 2011 - 01:48 PM

From what I can see, it doesn't seem like there is much 3D content available right now.

Also... not all Dish receivers can support 3D... and consumers are not likely to want to pay for that upgrade right now either.

It just doesn't seem like a smart investment to me at the moment. IF 3D ever takes off, Dish could add channels the next day and still be right in the mix... so I don't see any urgency here.

-- I like to go fast (not really)


#153 OFFLINE   tampa8

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Posted 03 September 2011 - 03:11 PM

I still see replies from those who want 3d when asked just how much is available not have good answers. It's mostly this channel is planning to or when this channel launches. The amount of 3d let alone the overall disinterest by most according to most everything I read online tells me Dish is better to wait on this and continue in adding HD and channels like MLB as they are doing.

#154 OFFLINE   evnow

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Posted 03 September 2011 - 04:02 PM

From what I can see, it doesn't seem like there is much 3D content available right now.

Also... not all Dish receivers can support 3D... and consumers are not likely to want to pay for that upgrade right now either.

It just doesn't seem like a smart investment to me at the moment. IF 3D ever takes off, Dish could add channels the next day and still be right in the mix... so I don't see any urgency here.


Replace 3D above with HD - it is just deja vu all over again.

Except, Dish was not a laggard in HD. Infact HD was a lot more of an investment - one HD channel ate the bandwidth of 6 SD channels.

I still see replies from those who want 3d when asked just how much is available not have good answers. It's mostly this channel is planning to or when this channel launches. The amount of 3d let alone the overall disinterest by most according to most everything I read online tells me Dish is better to wait on this and continue in adding HD and channels like MLB as they are doing.


You could have said exactly the same thing with HD a few years back (and you probably did).

Dish can continue to wait and gather the reputation of a laggard, bleed customers & market share hoping to earn all that back "sometime" in the future. There is no place for laggards in the marketplace. You can never underestimate the speed at which markets can take off.

Dish already has a problem with the current channels being Directv exclusives. If Dish continues to show no interest content providers will not hesitate to sign exclusive multiyear deals with Directv.

Edited by evnow, 03 September 2011 - 04:10 PM.


#155 OFFLINE   356B

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Posted 03 September 2011 - 04:20 PM

From what I can see, it doesn't seem like there is much 3D content available right now.

Also... not all Dish receivers can support 3D... and consumers are not likely to want to pay for that upgrade right now either.

It just doesn't seem like a smart investment to me at the moment. IF 3D ever takes off, Dish could add channels the next day and still be right in the mix... so I don't see any urgency here.

Every other movie this summer offered 3D......the horror, fantasy and cartoon crowd must be buying tickets or the movie makers wouldn't be messing with it.
Thank you and
Best of luck

#156 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 03 September 2011 - 05:39 PM

Replace 3D above with HD - it is just deja vu all over again.


I think you are both right and wrong here :)

You are right... some said the same thing about HD too... and to be honest, as much as I love my HD... HD was available via OTA in my market before anywhere else since WRAL was the first channel to broadcast digital HD OTA in the US... but when I signed on with Dish in 2002, I didn't even have an HDTV.

I didn't get an HDTV for another year or two after that... and didn't get an HD receiver from Dish until another year after that... by which time arguably HD had been around nearly 10 years! And Dish was the HD leader at that time... with the 5 channels that were available!

So... IF you are going to make the comparison of 3D and HD... this 3D technology right now is barely a year or two old in terms of an available channel. Dish and DirecTV were nearly 10 years late to the HD party in some respects!

I would say waiting to see if 3D is around for 5 years might be prudent AND would still put Dish ahead of the HD adoption curve.

Infact HD was a lot more of an investment - one HD channel ate the bandwidth of 6 SD channels.


All things being equal, though... doesn't a 3D channel take the same space as 2 HD channels, given the left/right frames? Or is it not quite twice the bandwidth due to compression efficiency?

Every other movie this summer offered 3D......the horror, fantasy and cartoon crowd must be buying tickets or the movie makers wouldn't be messing with it.


Perhaps... but how is the box office doing on all those movies?

Avatar was a big hit, mostly because people liked the movie AND also because it was 3D... so Hollywood jumped into 3D development after that and we are seeing the fruits of that labor this summer... but I guarantee you if box office draw continue to underwhelm for most of those 3D films, we won't see the trend continue in subsequent years.

Like when a particular sitcom or drama hits it big... then next season each network tries 2 versions of that same formula... and most of them crash and burn. Check out the super-hero movie trend.

Marvel started with Blade, X-Men... Spider-Man, stumbled a bit with the first Hulk movie, then had Iron Man and has been back on a high... DC countered with another Superman that floundered and a Batman that hit highs, but had a Green Lantern that missed horribly this year.

As long as more super-hero movies make big money... they will keep making them... AND they will make more, even for less-popular characters... but a few more flops like Green Lantern, and Hollywood will decide to turn away from super-heroes again for a few years.

That's what has historically happened with 3D... It comes around, makes a splash, then gets overused for bad movies... then goes away again. It remains to be seen if 3D is here to stay this time OR is just another glitch.

-- I like to go fast (not really)


#157 OFFLINE   RAD

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Posted 03 September 2011 - 05:53 PM

Stewart, the side by side format that DBS and cable uses doesn't take anymore bandwidth then a 2D channel. A 1920x1080 channel effectively becomes a 960x1080 channel with each eye's picture getting half the frame.

See post My Setup for configuration info.


#158 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 03 September 2011 - 08:18 PM

Stewart, the side by side format that DBS and cable uses doesn't take anymore bandwidth then a 2D channel. A 1920x1080 channel effectively becomes a 960x1080 channel with each eye's picture getting half the frame.


Ah... ok, thanks for that. I knew of a wide range of 3D options... ranging from the half-res version to the full 1080p version.

I didn't know what the 3D channels on cable/sat might be using.

So... no bandwidth issue then... but 3D comes at the expense of trading away half of the horizontal resolution.

-- I like to go fast (not really)


#159 OFFLINE   RAD

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Posted 03 September 2011 - 08:34 PM

Ah... ok, thanks for that. I knew of a wide range of 3D options... ranging from the half-res version to the full 1080p version.

I didn't know what the 3D channels on cable/sat might be using.

So... no bandwidth issue then... but 3D comes at the expense of trading away half of the horizontal resolution.


NP.

And for folks that use passive 3D sets it gets even worst since they cut the resolution in half again.

See post My Setup for configuration info.


#160 OFFLINE   evnow

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Posted 03 September 2011 - 09:47 PM

So... IF you are going to make the comparison of 3D and HD... this 3D technology right now is barely a year or two old in terms of an available channel. Dish and DirecTV were nearly 10 years late to the HD party in some respects!

Well, Dish (and Directv) started HD broadcasts before you joined the crowd. Infact Dish was the leader.

The first HDTV set was on sale in Nov, 1998.

http://www.ce.org/Pr...EA_Pubs/928.asp

In January 1998, TV manufacturers showed off the first HDTVs at the Consumer Electronics Show (CES). By September, the first HDTV sets, from Mitsubishi and Panasonic, reached stores � just in time for the first HDTV network broadcasts, due to begin November 1. CBS was ahead of schedule when, on October 29, it broadcast the launch of the John Glenn space shuttle mission.


Dish released the first tuner in Jan, 1999 i.e. within 3 months ! Not after 10 years. I got Dish 6000 in 2000, as soon as it came out. IIRC, we had Showtime HD and HBO HD at that time.

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Dishnetwork

Investing for the future

In January 1999, the company released the industry's first High-definition television (HDTV) tuner. In August 2003, the company launched Echostar IX, the first satellite equipped with commercial Ka band payload for broadband service over the United States. This led the company in 2004 to be the first satellite TV service to offer local channels to all 50 states. In that year, the company also introduced the nation's first interactive TV multiple picture-in picture application for the Olympic Games, offering coverage from multiple channels at once. This year the company also acquired its 10 millionth customer.


When you consider the amount of hardware support now available - and at prices barely above 2D HD hardware, you have to wonder what Dish is upto. They have basically given up their challenge to Directv and happy to be the poor cousin of Directv.

Edited by evnow, 03 September 2011 - 09:58 PM.





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