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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Interactive Beam Footprint Library Update 4/17/2015


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#51 ONLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 03:05 PM

gct, can you have maybe spears61 check on the issue of the PR spotbeam in my post here?

http://www.dbstalk.c...532#post3022532

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#52 OFFLINE   Gary Toma

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 03:53 PM

Here is a spears61 response to us before I could even contact him.

HoTat2 - is this making good sense to you?

From spear61:

I dug around a little bit in the schedule S file and extracted the data on this excel sheet. (see attached) You can separate the two tables and do a sort by column on the bigger table to get a good idea of how they can use it. Remember, a frequency range can not be used twice on any spot beam simultaneously. You can see how they can load up an area. It also explains Panama City (no duplicate frequency).

Attached Files


Edited by gct, 26 May 2012 - 07:47 PM.



#53 ONLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 04:31 PM

Here is a spears61 response to us before I could even contact him.

HoTat2 - is this making good sense to you?

From spears61:

I dug around a little bit in the schedule S file and extracted the data on this excel sheet. (see attached) You can separate the two tables and do a sort by column on the bigger table to get a good idea of how they can use it. Remember, a frequency range can not be used twice on any spot beam simultaneously. You can see how they can load up an area. It also explains Panama City (no duplicate frequency).


Extracting the data to the excel sheet certainly makes viewing and managing the data easier, thanks to spears61 for that.

But I still don't see how this answers the two apparent spotbeams listed for Puerto Rico, "B23" and "B24."

Assuming there is an answer to be had from this database of course. :)

#54 OFFLINE   spear61

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 07:05 PM

Extracting the data to the excel sheet certainly makes viewing and managing the data easier, thanks to spears61 for that.

But I still don't see how this answers the two apparent spotbeams listed for Puerto Rico, "B23" and "B24."

Assuming there is an answer to be had from this database of course. :)


From the data tables:
B24 is 19770 Right
B23 is 19730 Left

So b24 must be the "R" in the LR label for b23 and shares the same beam footprint. It is common practice in the filing to only publish one footprint when right and left polarity do not change the footprint.

#55 OFFLINE   doctor j

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 02:59 PM

Extracting the data to the excel sheet certainly makes viewing and managing the data easier, thanks to spears61 for that.

But I still don't see how this answers the two apparent spotbeams listed for Puerto Rico, "B23" and "B24."

Assuming there is an answer to be had from this database of course. :)


Things are a bit MORE confusing.

Trying to assimilate all of the data ( by the way 2 additional files are available on the FCC site about D-14. The Schedule S tech file and another Schedule S/ Beam Access file which seems to "Protected')

There are 43 spot beams on the standard US 48 State geography, with one also for Alaska.
2 spots are labled for Puerto Rico and appear as if 2 TPN's (B-23 and B-24)will be used for HD LIL's to Puerto Rico (they are in the TPN 1-8 "spot" range)

The retransmitted CONUS TPN's #'s 9 thru 24 appear to be redirected thru Beam B-23 and B-24 also for Puerto Rico, and a separate Antenna C01 (TPN's 9 thu 24) for Hawaii. Alaska is covered by a "lobe" on the NATIONAL beam.
No specific spots for Hawaii. There is a spot for Alaska A-21 with one additional TPN for Alaska HD LIL's.

The Schedule S Tech Report shows a total of 92 TPN's. 76 Spots and 16 CONUS. However the 16 CONUS are redirected to PR and HI. Does that mean they are using 124 TWTA's??

Confusing, Yes. But that's what the data says.

Doctor j

Edited by doctor j, 25 May 2012 - 03:01 PM.
correction

MFH-2 System : 2 Major Viewing Areas. 2 x HR20-700's & H21 in each area via E2/SWM-8. Hardwire gigabit switch to 30 mb/sec internet.


#56 OFFLINE   doctor j

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 03:13 PM

Here is a spears61 response to us before I could even contact him.

HoTat2 - is this making good sense to you?

From spears61:

I dug around a little bit in the schedule S file and extracted the data on this excel sheet. (see attached) You can separate the two tables and do a sort by column on the bigger table to get a good idea of how they can use it. Remember, a frequency range can not be used twice on any spot beam simultaneously. You can see how they can load up an area. It also explains Panama City (no duplicate frequency).


But this data makes Panama City spots even more confusing.
Spots B06 and B08 are 2 TPN per Spot beams. That give 4 TPN's to that area which is fairly small and couldn't be more than 2 DMA's (Panama City, FL and Dothan, AL). Beam is too small to cover Albany, GA or Tallahassee, FL or Mobile, AL/Pensacola, FL.

Doctor j

MFH-2 System : 2 Major Viewing Areas. 2 x HR20-700's & H21 in each area via E2/SWM-8. Hardwire gigabit switch to 30 mb/sec internet.


#57 ONLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 04:49 PM

... There are 43 spot beams on the standard US 48 State geography, with one also for Alaska.
2 spots are labled for Puerto Rico and appear as if 2 TPN's (B-23 and B-24)will be used for HD LIL's to Puerto Rico (they are in the TPN 1-8 "spot" range)


That's the way I'm reading the data as two separate spotbeams for Puerto Rico. B23 for even numbered redirected nationals and 1 even SB transponder and B24 for odd numbered redirected nationals and 1 odd numbered SB transponder. Yet spear61's list has this data resulting in only one PR beam B23LR, carrying both even/odd national and SB transponders.

... The retransmitted CONUS TPN's #'s 9 thru 24 appear to be redirected thru Beam B-23 and B-24 also for Puerto Rico, and a separate Antenna C01 (TPN's 9 thu 24) for Hawaii. Alaska is covered by a "lobe" on the NATIONAL beam.
No specific spots for Hawaii. There is a spot for Alaska A-21 with one additional TPN for Alaska HD LIL's.


Same interpretation here.

... The Schedule S Tech Report shows a total of 92 TPN's. 76 Spots and 16 CONUS. However the 16 CONUS are redirected to PR and HI. Does that mean they are using 124 TWTA's??

Confusing, Yes. But that's what the data says.


I imagine D14 will use a similar if not exact TWTA arrangement for both the P.R. and HI. spotbeam that D10, 11, and 12 use for the redirected nationals on their Hawaiian spotbeam. They somehow apportion the 14 or 16 redirected national transponders over four active TWTAs (with four others as spares).

Whether that means 3-4 national transponders are assigned to each TWTA or some other I don't know. But obviously less TWTAs are necessary since the higher PFD of a SB largely compensates for having multiple transponders share 1 TWTA as opposed to the two parallel 130w TWTAs needed for each national transponder on the CONUS beam.

Edited by HoTat2, 25 May 2012 - 05:01 PM.


#58 ONLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 04:53 PM

But this data makes Panama City spots even more confusing.
Spots B06 and B08 are 2 TPN per Spot beams. That give 4 TPN's to that area which is fairly small and couldn't be more than 2 DMA's (Panama City, FL and Dothan, AL). Beam is too small to cover Albany, GA or Tallahassee, FL or Mobile, AL/Pensacola, FL.

Doctor j


I'm reading 3 SB transponders each for A06 and A08 in the database, for a total of six. :confused:

#59 OFFLINE   spear61

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 10:29 AM

That's the way I'm reading the data as two separate spotbeams for Puerto Rico. B23 for even numbered redirected nationals and 1 even SB transponder and B24 for odd numbered redirected nationals and 1 odd numbered SB transponder. Yet spear61's list has this data resulting in only one PR beam B23LR, carrying both even/odd national and SB transponders.
.


You are mixing terms. In this filing, the term beam was used for both beam and coverage maps but they put a L or R marker at the end of the beam name when identifying a beam "map". A beam "map" may be served by any number of transponders and polarities, depending on design, ie; a conus satellite with all transponders on one beam "map".

So, for Puerto Rico, there is only one beam "map", B23RL, which shows the coverage area and contours for whatever transponders and polarities are associated with coverage of that area.

#60 OFFLINE   spear61

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 10:35 AM

But this data makes Panama City spots even more confusing.
Spots B06 and B08 are 2 TPN per Spot beams. That give 4 TPN's to that area which is fairly small and couldn't be more than 2 DMA's (Panama City, FL and Dothan, AL). Beam is too small to cover Albany, GA or Tallahassee, FL or Mobile, AL/Pensacola, FL.

Doctor j


I would not be surprised to see a correction issued. It sure looks like they may have inadvertently duplicated a gxt file when compiling the data for submission.

#61 ONLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 08:30 PM

You are mixing terms. In this filing, the term beam was used for both beam and coverage maps but they put a L or R marker at the end of the beam name when identifying a beam "map". A beam "map" may be served by any number of transponders and polarities, depending on design, ie; a conus satellite with all transponders on one beam "map".

So, for Puerto Rico, there is only one beam "map", B23RL, which shows the coverage area and contours for whatever transponders and polarities are associated with coverage of that area.


OK, so if I'm understanding this correctly even though there will actually be two physical overlapping spotbeams beams carrying even and odd channel sets covering Puerto Rico, only one beam "B23" is used to represent both on the coverage map since the two are identical?

#62 OFFLINE   spear61

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 07:51 AM

Yes, of course no specific transponder frequency can be used twice in any bean "map" area to avoid interferece.

#63 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 09:39 AM

Yes, of course no specific transponder frequency can be used twice in any bean "map" area to avoid interferece.


Isn't using different polarity of same frequency could allow to do that ?

#64 OFFLINE   spear61

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 10:13 AM

Isn't using different polarity of same frequency could allow to do that ?

Yes, you are correct, frequency AND polarity can not be duplicated or there will be interference.

#65 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 07:56 PM

Looks to me like they will finally have a spot beam big enough to cover all of Utah for HD LIL which they don't have now.

This is just amazing work guys! Awesome Job! Thanks!

#66 OFFLINE   Sunner73

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 10:24 PM

I'm looking for the spot beam map for D7. SD Locals only
Directv customer since 2001
1 HR34-50" Projection TV
2 HR24-27" HDTV/Monitor & 27" CRT
2 DSR704 DTivo's (no locals)-32" CRTs
1 DSR7000 DTivo-27" CRT
Only the 2 DSR704's MRV'ed

Upgraded to AU9 Slimline w/SWM16 w/uS575 stacker feeding a LAL20a amp supplying single coax to each of the 3 DSR's w/dual destackers.

#67 OFFLINE   Gary Toma

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 10:33 PM

I'm looking for the spot beam map for D7. SD Locals only


For the Bay Area, all your SD locals are on D4S/D9S @ 101. Look at the Spot Beam Map CB20, under the D9S listing early in this thread.

I know it is frustrating, because we don't have beam footprints for the old sats. Please read post #1 carefully - then you will understand...

:)


#68 ONLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 11:58 PM

I'm looking for the spot beam map for D7. SD Locals only


And if your still interested, try here for beam maps of DIRECTV-7S;

http://www.satstar.n...ites/dtv7s.html

While not interactive like the files posted here that work with Google Earth, they're still very informative.

Edited by HoTat2, 12 June 2012 - 12:05 AM.


#69 OFFLINE   Gary Toma

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 09:57 PM

...I know it is frustrating, because we don't have beam footprints for the old sats. Please read post #1 carefully - then you will understand...
:)


Your quest for Beam Footprints for D7S inspired our 'Beam Professor Emeritus', spear61. He ultimately has been successful in retrieving the "pre-web-era" data from the FCC filing system. With the payment of some fees and a great deal of time and work, he has made it possible to add to our Directv Beam Footprint Repository:

26 Beam Footprints for D4S - see post #14
30 Beam Footprints for D7S - see post #16


#70 ONLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 11:13 PM

Your quest for Beam Footprints for D7S inspired our 'Beam Professor Emeritus', spear61. He ultimately has been successful in retrieving the "pre-web-era" data from the FCC filing system. With the payment of some fees and a great deal of time and work, he has made it possible to add to our Directv Beam Footprint Repository:

26 Beam Footprints for D4S - see post #14
30 Beam Footprints for D7S - see post #16


Great work! ... :)

Many thanks to spear61 for his tireless work digging this old and largely forgotten material up given the emphasis on the HD birds nowadays.

These are posted on the Satstar site I posted above earlier as well. But much better to have them in google earth files for interactivity and 3D modeling.

BTW: Its 27 beams total for D4S. ;)

EDIT: Since the CONUS beam from D4S is reportedly turned off in exchange for coverage from the D9S national beam, I suppose its CONUS beam map is only of academic interest making D4S effectively 26 beams. Solely of spotbeams that is.

Edited by HoTat2, 12 July 2012 - 11:28 PM.


#71 OFFLINE   spear61

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 09:29 AM

The International Bureau Policy Division also scanned the original narrative/ technical documents into pdf format and have added them to the respective LOA web links.

#72 ONLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 09:59 AM

The International Bureau Policy Division also scanned the original narrative/ technical documents into pdf format and have added them to the respective LOA web links.


Mind posting those links spear61 for all us interested in this important history, but who cannot navigate the FCC site very well? :)

Again, thanks for all the hard work ...

#73 OFFLINE   spear61

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 11:50 AM

Easier for me this way. 4S and 7S narratives

https://docs.google....aGhxRF9hTm13d0U

https://docs.google....SnhhUTJCdUdrY28

#74 OFFLINE   Gary Toma

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 05:44 PM

Beam footprint maps for the forthcoming KU-76 satellite at 76W have just been published.

See Post #20 of this thread.

KU-76 is providing 'Continental Mexico' CONMEX beams for this extremely fast growing market.


#75 OFFLINE   Gary Toma

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 09:35 PM

Just published the Beam Footprint maps for INTELSAT-30, which will become a workhorse for DIRECTV Latin America in the near future.

Thanks again, spear61!!

See Post #19 of this thread.





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