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#76 OFFLINE   Gary Toma

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Posted 23 November 2013 - 07:43 PM

D5 Beam Footprint Update

 

This thread has been updated with the new Beam Footprint map for D5/Puerto Rico based upon Directv's recent FCC filing.

 

I know spear61 (and we do thank you) can only work with the data he is given; but this may be the ugliest  Beam splat we have seen.




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#77 OFFLINE   slice1900

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 01:46 PM

Question:

 

Post 4 shows a beam footprint for RB-2. That was never built/launched, was it? I thought that was the application originally filed for BSS before the FCC's guidelines were complete, and Directv launched RB-2A with its four spots on D12 (post 8) as a sort of placeholder and for further testing beyond that provided by D11's "experimental BSS payload"?

 

Maybe RB-2 will finally be launched on D15, assuming it ends up at 103, since it has a BSS payload identical to D14's?


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#78 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 12:47 PM

Question:

 

Post 4 shows a beam footprint for RB-2. That was never built/launched, was it? I thought that was the application originally filed for BSS before the FCC's guidelines were complete, and Directv launched RB-2A with its four spots on D12 (post 8) as a sort of placeholder and for further testing beyond that provided by D11's "experimental BSS payload"?

 

Maybe RB-2 will finally be launched on D15, assuming it ends up at 103, since it has a BSS payload identical to D14's?

Post number 2 actually ... :)

 

And yes post #2 appears to be the original 2006 filing for RB-2 (S2712), formally titled "BSS-103W" at that time. 

 

The later amendment ("AMD") and modification ("MOD") applications for RB-2 filed in 2008 and 2011 respectively to bring RB-2 more inline with the future FCC rulemaking and orders (R&O) as well as other modifications like only 18 CONUS transponders instead of 20 in the original filing, also do not contain any mention of the 24 transponder payloads and beams for the Mexico and L.A.

 

Gary and Spear61 may want to look at this for any needed updates and/or corrections here.     


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#79 OFFLINE   slice1900

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 01:23 PM

Post number 2 actually ... :)

 

And yes post #2 appears to be the original 2006 filing for RB-2 (S2712), formally titled "BSS-103W" at that time. 

 

The later amendment ("AMD") and modification ("MOD") applications for RB-2 filed in 2008 and 2011 respectively to bring RB-2 more inline with the future FCC rulemaking and orders (R&O) as well as other modifications like only 18 CONUS transponders instead of 20 in the original filing, also do not contain any mention of the 24 transponder payloads and beams for the Mexico and L.A.

 

Gary and Spear61 may want to look at this for any needed updates and/or corrections here.     

 

I wondered about the 18 transponders thing, since D14 (and D15, if it becomes RB-2) have 24 transponders, with transponders 19 and 20 switchable to 24 MHz operation so they can be used in the US. If the original filing listed 20 and it was amended to 18, I guess they must have decided they didn't need that extra 48 MHz for CONUS.

 

Did anyone ever learn what the four spot beams coming from RB-2A on D12 are doing? Are they just being used for testing, or are there earth stations in the places they're aimed at (i.e. perhaps being used for internal needs like Ka on 101?)


SL5, PI-6S, SA-6AL, 3xSWM16; 21 H20-100, 1 H20-600, 7 H24-700/AM21


#80 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 04:00 PM

it's a classified info - you must work in certain DTV dept to know it


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#81 OFFLINE   BooneDocks

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 10:34 AM

Wow, I think I have finally found what I have been looking for. About 8 months ago I started living full time in an RV and I travel about the country. I have a Winegard slimline traveler HD auto sat dish on the roof with Directv HD service. I haven't applied for DNS as I don't really want to pay the extra monthly cost. So far, I have had success with calling DTV and having them change my service address, but I spent six weeks in Myrtle Beach and 4 months in one location of Florida. I am under the impression that DTV won't change my locals too often but I haven't gotten a good line on just how often I can or can't change them. I view these maps as a way of selecting service address location that will keep me within the footprint of spot beams that generally correspond to my travels. For example, I plan to slowly travel this spring/summer up the east coast and into the Canadian Maritimes. It looks to me that if I first chose DC it would cover me from about NC up through NY. And then if I gave a Boston service address, I would be good for NY on up into Canada.

Do I have this all correct?

Just an update to say that I have been able to call in an get my DTV locals changed about four times a year over the last 2 1/2 years.  I use these google earth maps to plan out my changes and they have worked very well for me.  So glad they are available here.  

 

My travels are more north/south which helps to minimize the number of times I have to call in and change.  If I was racing back and forth across the country I would be calling in all the time and I doubt they would make that many changes for me.

 

Bottom line, travel patterns permitting, you can work with DTV to change your locals from time to time and avoid the fee for DNS service.



#82 OFFLINE   Gary Toma

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 06:57 PM

SATELLITE DIRECTV DLA-2 / INTELSAT-31 @95W
 
Beam Footprint: IS31_CBCR
Beam Footprint: IS31_PRLD
Beam Footprint: IS31_PRRD
Beam Footprint: IS31_R1LD
Beam Footprint: IS31_R1RD
Beam Footprint: IS31_R2LD
Beam Footprint: IS31_R2RD
Beam Footprint: IS31_R3LD
Beam Footprint: IS31_R3RD
Beam Footprint: IS31_R4LD
Beam Footprint: IS31_R4RD
Beam Footprint: IS31_TCNR




#83 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 03 May 2014 - 02:38 PM

SATELLITE INTELSAT-30 @95W

This is the first of two forthcoming satellites for DIRECTV-Latin America

 

 

Beam Footprint: IS30_CBCL

Beam Footprint: IS30_PRLD

Beam Footprint: IS30_PRRD

Beam Footprint: IS30_R1LD

Beam Footprint: IS30_R1LD

Beam Footprint: IS30_R2RD

Beam Footprint: IS30_R3LD

Beam Footprint: IS30_R3RD

Beam Footprint: IS30_R4LD

Beam Footprint: IS30_R4RD

Beam Footprint: IS30_TCNL

Hey Gary;

 

Thanks for posting this update, but I'm still somewhat confused on the beam listings for IS30 here. As they should read (for the related downlinks above);

 

CBCL - California Broadcast Center Left Circular (downlink).

PRLD - Pan-Regional Left (Circular) Downlink

PRRD - Pan-Regional Right (Circular) Downlink

R1RD - Region 1 Right (Circular) Downlink

R1LD - Region 1 Left (Circular) Downlink

R2RD - Region 2 Right (Circular) Downlink

R2LD - Region 2 Left (Circular) Downlink

R3RD - Region 3 Right (Circular) Downlink

R3LD - Region 3 Left (Circular) Downlink

R4RD - Region 4 Right (Circular) Downlink

R4LD - Region 4 Left (Circular) Downlink

TCNL - Trans-Continental? Left (Circular Downlink) 

 

Located in files GXT26, GXT23, 24, GXT15-22,  and GXT25, respectively at IS30's FCC menu of filings;

 

http://licensing.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/ib/forms/attachment_menu.hts?id_app_num=99684&acct=783256&id_form_num=15&filing_key=-249857

 


Edited by HoTat2, 03 May 2014 - 06:19 PM.

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#84 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 10 May 2014 - 09:11 AM

Intelsat-31  Directv Latin America

 

Panamericana

 

Post #94 now provides the Beam Footprint Maps for Intelsat-31

 

Thanks once again to spear61 for his time and work !

Yep, thanks Gary and especially to spear61 for his diligent work here;

 

Both Intelsat beam listings read correctly now.

 

Though in a note of clarification to readers, it seems the TCNL/R beams on the satellites should not be mistaken as dedicated downlink beams for the TCN transponder, but utilize the "Pan-Regional" downlink beams on their respective birds.

 

That is to say, the d/l beam "TCNL" on IS-30 is actually the "PRLD" beam. And beam "TCNR" is really "PRRD" on IS-31.

 

Now as with a similar 10 MHz wide version aboard the current G3C satellite, for what an only 8 MHz wide Ku transponder as this "TCN" tp. is will to be used for that can be relevant to DTH TV service, even for internal testing purposes, I haven't a clue. :)   


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#85 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 10:47 AM

I also wish I could figure out why the engineering statements and Schedule S forms for IS-30 and 31 continue to list the total Ku band transponders for DTH service as only "73," to which I assume comes from 72 24/36 MHz wideband tps. + the 1 special narrowband TCN transponder.

 

This also may be why in early press releases for the DLA birds, it quoted the total of "144" tps. (or 72 x 2 ignoring the TCN tps.) combined for IS-30 and 31.

 

But from every count I can see in those documents, the total comes to "80" 24/36 MHz tps. + "1" TCN tp. for each satellite which should come to combined figure of "160" or "162" depending on whether the TCN transponders are counted.

 

That's for each bird;

 

16 - 24 MHz total tps. for Pan-regional H/LHCP up/down

16 - 24 MHz total tps. for Pan-regional V/RHCP up/down

12 - 36 MHz total tps. for Region 1 or 2 H/LHCP up/down

12 - 36 MHz total tps. for Region 1 or 2 V/RHCP up/down

12 - 36 MHz total tps. for Region 3 or 4 H/LHCP up/down

12 - 36 MHz total tps. for Region 3 or 4 V/RHCP up/down

 

1 - 8 MHz TCN tp. H/LHCP up/down for IS-30 and V/RHCP up/down for IS-31 

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Total: 80(81) transponders.

 

So what gives? :confused:

 


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#86 OFFLINE   slice1900

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 03:33 PM

Don't most satellites have spare transponders they can bring up if they have a failure?


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#87 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 10:33 PM

Don't most satellites have spare transponders they can bring up if they have a failure?

Yes, but spare transponders (at least usually) are not assigned specific frequencies among those listed in the FCC documentation. But are designed to be tuned to any of the transponder frequencies of the ones on the list they back up to take over for whichever of those when necessary.

 

i'm beginning to think that perhaps the discrepancy is simply that while there are a total of 80(81) possible transponders for the Ku band payload, only 72(73) of them are leased by Intelsat to DIRECTV LA ?

 

The problem is in the 12/12/13 investor day conference material, it list "80" transponders total as the actual count indicates.

 

Untitled.png

 

So I'm still not sure ....


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#88 OFFLINE   slice1900

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 11:06 PM

Maybe those Pan-regional 24 MHz transponders can be switched to 36 MHz operation, so rather than 16 24 MHz transponders they switch 4 off and run 12 at 36 MHz wide, and strategy was changed at some point along the way. Make that change for both H and V and you go from 80 operating transponders to 72.

 

D14 and D15's RDBS transponders work this way. They are all 36 MHz wide, but tpns 19 and 20 can be switched to 24 MHz operation to allow them to be used in the US, or they can use the full 36 MHz width if they're used only outside the US. The reason for that is that 17.7 to 17.8 GHz can't be used in the US, but can in Mexico/LA. Our RDBS bands are 400 MHz wide, theirs are 500 MHz.

 


SL5, PI-6S, SA-6AL, 3xSWM16; 21 H20-100, 1 H20-600, 7 H24-700/AM21


#89 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 11:12 AM

Maybe those Pan-regional 24 MHz transponders can be switched to 36 MHz operation, so rather than 16 24 MHz transponders they switch 4 off and run 12 at 36 MHz wide, and strategy was changed at some point along the way. Make that change for both H and V and you go from 80 operating transponders to 72.

 

Could be;

 

But I would think such a major feature of the satellite if it existed would receive some mention in at least the "Engineering Statement" submission.

   

... D14 and D15's RDBS transponders work this way. They are all 36 MHz wide, but tpns 19 and 20 can be switched to 24 MHz operation to allow them to be used in the US, or they can use the full 36 MHz width if they're used only outside the US. The reason for that is that 17.7 to 17.8 GHz can't be used in the US, but can in Mexico/LA. Our RDBS bands are 400 MHz wide, theirs are 500 MHz.

 

Are the RDBS transponders really going to work this way though?

 

As there's some confusion here since the original submission in 2006 for both the RB-1 RDBS payload to be used on board D14 titled "BSS-99W" to be positioned at long. 99.175W, and RB-2 titled "BSS-103W at 102.825W destined for D15?, includes Mexico and LA downlink beams in addition to the CONUS one, and therefore has this switchable transponder feature.

 

However the most recent submission for RB-1 and RB-2 in 2011 and now both titled the same way as "RB-1" and "RB-2" to be positioned at 99.235W and the same 102.825W respectively do not have Mex. and LA beams. Only a CONUS one.  


Edited by HoTat2, 16 May 2014 - 11:53 AM.

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#90 OFFLINE   slice1900

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 02:42 PM

The whole RB-1/RB-2 thing is too confusing to follow, I was just talking about the capabilities of the D14 and D15 satellites. Whether those capabilities are used after launch is a different matter.


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#91 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 03:12 PM

The whole RB-1/RB-2 thing is too confusing to follow, I was just talking about the capabilities of the D14 and D15 satellites. Whether those capabilities are used after launch is a different matter.

Yes I agree, confusing;

 

But to try and simplify anyhow, I'm just not sure the RDBS payloads to be used on D14 and 15 will have Mex. and LA beams. DIRECTV seems to have scrapped that idea for just a national beam covering CONUS, AL. HI. and the PR as indicated in the more recent 2011 filings for RB-1 and 2.


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#92 OFFLINE   slice1900

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 09:57 PM

Yes I agree, confusing;

 

But to try and simplify anyhow, I'm just not sure the RDBS payloads to be used on D14 and 15 will have Mex. and LA beams. DIRECTV seems to have scrapped that idea for just a national beam covering CONUS, AL. HI. and the PR as indicated in the more recent 2011 filings for RB-1 and 2.

 

The FCC filings don't show Mexico and LA only beams on frequencies not permitted in the US, do they? Transponders 19-24 may be aimed down south, but since 17.7 GHz - 17.8 GHz can't be used here there's no reason to show them in FCC filings.

 

The reason 95W Intelsat-30/31 beams are provided is because they're not just in Panamericana, they're in the US too, for people with the international dish.


SL5, PI-6S, SA-6AL, 3xSWM16; 21 H20-100, 1 H20-600, 7 H24-700/AM21


#93 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 07:03 AM

The FCC filings don't show Mexico and LA only beams on frequencies not permitted in the US, do they? Transponders 19-24 may be aimed down south, but since 17.7 GHz - 17.8 GHz can't be used here there's no reason to show them in FCC filings.

 

In the '06 filings for RB-1 and 2 originally titled as "BSS-99W" and "BSS-103W," the Schedule S documents list the CONUS+AL+HI+PR beam transponders as "AM1 - AM20" operated at 36 MHz except tps. AM19 and 20 which are operated in a 24 MHz mode.

 

The Mexico beam transponders are listed as "MX1 - MX24", all at 36 MHz.

 

And the Latin America beam tps. are listed as "LA1 - LA24," all at 36 MHz as well.

 

Attached File  BSS-99W Sched. S filed in 2006.pdf   73.62KB   28 downloads

 

Attached File  BSS-103W Sched. S filed in 2006.pdf   73.62KB   24 downloads

 

The '11 Schedule S filings however now titling them as "RB-1" and "RB-2" respectively list only a CONUS+AL+HI+PR beam with only 18 transponders, all at 36 MHz. No 24 MHz mode tps. 19 and 20 mentioned anywhere in the documents, nor are any Mexico or LA beam or tps. listed this time.

 

Attached File  RB-1 Sched. S filed 2011.pdf   57.21KB   32 downloads

 

Attached File  RB-2 Sched. S filed 2011.pdf   57.1KB   24 downloads

 

 

... The reason 95W Intelsat-30/31 beams are provided is because they're not just in Panamericana, they're in the US too, for people with the international dish.

 

 

Actually, as I posted in other threads, unlike G3C, there seems to be no provision for support of the 95W World Direct service on the new IS-30/31 birds. The only beam to be directed at N.A. is a spotbeam aimed at the southwestern U.S. to cover the Calif. Broadcast Center (CBC).

 

So either WD is to be still provided by G3C co-located with IS-30/31 for the remainder of its lifetime. Or WD service is to be moved to the main 99W-103W group, or the plan is for both these alternatives over time.    


Edited by HoTat2, 17 May 2014 - 07:24 AM.

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#94 OFFLINE   slice1900

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 01:25 PM

Well I have said for a while I expect that once D14 launches the content on 95W will be replicated on 99/103, so there will be no need for a second dish for new installs. But there will still be hundreds of thousands (millions?) of WD dishes out there, so they have to keep broadcasting it to the US until those would all be replaced. That may not happen until MPEG2 is retired, unless they want to migrate WD owners sooner. I would guess more of them are SD only subscribers than the national average, since if you watch a lot of WD content there's little point in paying Directv for HD service.

 

If G3C keeps broadcasting on the WD transponders, either the transponder frequencies or the footprint of those frequencies can't overlap. Unfortunately we don't seem to have G3C in the footprint library, so I can't tell if the transponders used for WD service are CONUS only. If they aren't, then the frequencies used for them can't be used by IS30 and IS31. Perhaps that accounts for the 72/80 transponder differential? 72 now, 80 at some future day when G3C is retired?


Edited by slice1900, 17 May 2014 - 01:25 PM.

SL5, PI-6S, SA-6AL, 3xSWM16; 21 H20-100, 1 H20-600, 7 H24-700/AM21


#95 OFFLINE   Gary Toma

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 09:14 PM

 

 

.....Unfortunately we don't seem to have G3C in the footprint library, so I can't tell if the transponders used for WD service are CONUS only.

 

Sorry, G3C was a June, 2002 launch.  We will be hard pressed to find any beam footprint data at all for this satellite.

:(




#96 OFFLINE   slice1900

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 10:09 PM

Sorry, G3C was a June, 2002 launch.  We will be hard pressed to find any beam footprint data at all for this satellite.

:(

 

Didn't mean that to sound like a criticism, I greatly appreciate the work you've done making these available with such a simple way to view them - well not so simple tonight since Google Earth keeps crashing on me! :bang

 

I did a little digging and found the beams at http://www.lyngsat.com/Galaxy-3C.html. If you look one of the Directv USA transponders and click on the "North American Ku" link, you visit http://www.lyngsat-m...America-Ku.html which shows the beams covering the US as well as Mexico. It is a bit weaker in Mexico, but pretty sure those same transponder frequencies couldn't be used by IS-30 or IS-31 unless they're hitting an EIRP of nearly 60.

 

IS-30/IS-31 are reported to have some spot beams, it might make sense to use the frequencies G3C does for some of the spots, then they could be beamed strongly enough and to locations where G3C's beam would be under the noise floor.

 

Gunter's space page says that they'll be co-located with G3C, which would seem to indicate G3C will stick around for a while. I found the original announcement for its launch, which stated it was planned for a 15 year life, so it should last until at least 2017. Given that Directv's older satellites look to be able to exceed their rated life, it may well last longer. So G3C should last long enough for Directv to migrate everyone off the WD dish, if not off MPEG2 entirely, before it has to be decommissioned.


Edited by slice1900, 17 May 2014 - 10:09 PM.

SL5, PI-6S, SA-6AL, 3xSWM16; 21 H20-100, 1 H20-600, 7 H24-700/AM21


#97 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 08:14 PM

 

 

... If G3C keeps broadcasting on the WD transponders, either the transponder frequencies or the footprint of those frequencies can't overlap. Unfortunately we don't seem to have G3C in the footprint library, so I can't tell if the transponders used for WD service are CONUS only. If they aren't, then the frequencies used for them can't be used by IS30 and IS31. Perhaps that accounts for the 72/80 transponder differential? 72 now, 80 at some future day when G3C is retired?

 


 

Sorry, G3C was a June, 2002 launch.  We will be hard pressed to find any beam footprint data at all for this satellite.

:(

 

Yeah...

 

Given G3C's early launch period before the FCC made the recent modifications to their filing system, we pretty much just have make to do with the various beam footprint illustrations listed in the G3C Technical data on file;

 

Thus, for the N.A. beam used by the WD service;

 

World Direct N.A.beam.png

 

And the transponder frequencies used by WD;

 

World Direct Transponder Frequencies .png

 

Note; the "green" colored outline are the range of available transponder frequencies used by WD, and the "Red" outline are the transponders being used at present for the service as indicated by the Network Decoder given in Gary's the latest TPN maps.

 

So while there will be a frequency overlap with the WD tps. and the upper set of transponders used by the regional beams of IS-30/31, there is of course no geographical overlap since the regional beams will all be far to the south covering S.A. 


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#98 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 04:19 AM

Also;

 

Here's a convenient illustration of the transponder numbering used by World Direct service as they appear on the DIRECTV receiver signal level screen and Network Decoder in the TPN maps.

 

As you can see any active tp. numbers for WD service correspond only with one the sixteen 27 MHz bandwidth tps. Never the larger 54 Mhz ones. The numbers with the green circles are the currently active tps. for WD service.

 

WD Transponder Numbering.png

 

 

 

 


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#99 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 09:50 AM

well, there is no one type of a sat tuner [chip] in consumer's receivers/DVRs has specs to utilize 54 MHz transponder, so far 36 MHz is the max bandwidth ... perhaps set by profitable level

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#100 OFFLINE   slice1900

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 11:26 AM

well, there is no one type of a sat tuner [chip] in consumer's receivers/DVRs has specs to utilize 54 MHz transponder, so far 36 MHz is the max bandwidth ... perhaps set by profitable level

 

So what are those 54 MHz tpns used for? Is it internal use like the 250 and 500 MHz wide tpns on Directv's 101/ka?


SL5, PI-6S, SA-6AL, 3xSWM16; 21 H20-100, 1 H20-600, 7 H24-700/AM21





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