Jump to content


Welcome to DBSTalk


Sign In 

Create Account
Welcome to DBSTalk, like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community, but don't worry this is a simple free process that requires minimal information for you to signup. Be a part of DBSTalk by signing in or creating an account.
  • Start new topics and reply to others
  • Subscribe to topics and forums to get email updates
  • Get your own profile page and make new friends
  • Send personal messages to other members.
 
Guest Message by DevFuse

Photo
- - - - -

No audio on just some channels


  • Please log in to reply
17 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   MMSis

MMSis

    New Member

  • Registered
  • 4 posts
Joined: Jun 21, 2011

Posted 21 June 2011 - 10:55 AM

I have DTV High Def receivers on three tv's in my home. On two of the three tv's everything works perfectly. On the third one, all of a sudden, I am not getting sound on some of the channels. The pictures are perfectly clear. I figured it couldn't be an audio issue with the tv or I would not get sound on any channels. I am not "techy" at all. Where should I start to try to solve this?

...Ads Help To Support This SIte...

#2 OFFLINE   Scott Kocourek

Scott Kocourek

    On the edge

  • Super Moderators
  • 8,879 posts
  • LocationWisconsin
Joined: Jun 13, 2009

Posted 21 June 2011 - 11:50 AM

Always start with a simple reset.

Menu > Parental, Favs & Setup > Reset. Give that a shot.

Opinions expressed by me are my own and do not necessarily reflect
those of DBSTalk.com, DIRECTV, Dish Network, or any other company.
Become a DBSTalk.com member or join the CE program HERE


#3 OFFLINE   Carl Spock

Carl Spock

    Superfly

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 4,567 posts
Joined: Sep 03, 2004

Posted 21 June 2011 - 11:52 AM

My question is what channels are you getting audio on and what aren't you?

I'd suspect if it is a TV problem, somehow the television got switched into the SAP (Separate Audio Programing) mode. Start hunting around for that in the TV's manual, remote or menus.
hangin' with the bros at 40 Eridani A

#4 OFFLINE   Mike Greer

Mike Greer

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 1,612 posts
  • LocationSalt Lake City, Utah
Joined: Jan 20, 2004

Posted 21 June 2011 - 11:53 AM

Dolby Digital trouble? Maybe try the oposite of what it is now and then back again?

#5 OFFLINE   MMSis

MMSis

    New Member

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered
  • 4 posts
Joined: Jun 21, 2011

Posted 21 June 2011 - 11:54 AM

Thank you Scott. I will try that.

#6 OFFLINE   MMSis

MMSis

    New Member

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered
  • 4 posts
Joined: Jun 21, 2011

Posted 21 June 2011 - 11:56 AM

Carl-
I checked all of the tv settings and I don't think that is the case but I will check. I don't know all of the channels without sound because I created a custom list. But, for instance, QVC and AETV are two that are silent.

#7 OFFLINE   MMSis

MMSis

    New Member

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered
  • 4 posts
Joined: Jun 21, 2011

Posted 21 June 2011 - 11:58 AM

Not sure what you mean Mike. Check where? Sorry, told you I'm not very savvy on this stuff. :-(

#8 OFFLINE   Mike Greer

Mike Greer

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 1,612 posts
  • LocationSalt Lake City, Utah
Joined: Jan 20, 2004

Posted 21 June 2011 - 12:16 PM

Not sure what you mean Mike. Check where? Sorry, told you I'm not very savvy on this stuff. :-(


Sorry - I meant if you have Dolby Digital on in audio settings then turn it off or if it is Off - turn it on just to see if it has something to do with Dolby Digital Channels...

#9 OFFLINE   Carl Spock

Carl Spock

    Superfly

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 4,567 posts
Joined: Sep 03, 2004

Posted 21 June 2011 - 01:28 PM

Carl-
I checked all of the tv settings and I don't think that is the case but I will check. I don't know all of the channels without sound because I created a custom list. But, for instance, QVC and AETV are two that are silent.

I don't know about QVC but A&E certainly broadcasts in Dolby Digital. If you don't have your system hooked up to a stereo for sound, but instead are using the TV speakers, having your audio set to Dolby Digital could be the problem.

Are you hooked up to your TV using a HDMI cable? If not, how is it hooked up?

And as for my original guess, if any of the channels have a Spanish audio track, then you are definitely in the SAP mode. You could still be in the SAP mode even if your aren't hearing Spanish.

Buena suerte!
hangin' with the bros at 40 Eridani A

#10 OFFLINE   litzdog911

litzdog911

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 11,377 posts
  • LocationMill Creek, WA
Joined: Jun 23, 2004

Posted 21 June 2011 - 02:06 PM

How is the "bad" Receiver's audio connected to your HDTV? What happens if you swap this "bad" Receiver with one of your "good" Receivers? Does the problem follow the "bad" Receiver?
HD DVRs: HR34-700; HR24-500; (2) HR20-700 + WD eSATA 1TB drive/Antec MX1 case; HR21-700; HR21-200 w/AM21
Receivers: H25-500 HD Receiver; H21-100 HD Receiver
Mobile Devices: Nomad

Additional equipment configuration details

Sun & moon help site your satellite dish


#11 OFFLINE   Teacherman

Teacherman

    Mentor

  • Registered
  • 36 posts
Joined: Oct 20, 2006

Posted 21 June 2011 - 06:22 PM

I'm having the same type of problem. My HR24-500 is connected via HDMI to my Denon 3310. Some channels such as SunSports have no audio while others such as NBC drop audio during commercials or during some segments of news shows. Turning Dolby digital off gives me sound, but it kind of dumb watching an HD channel without digital sound. I have tried connecting hdmi to the Samsung lcd and optical to the Denon, still the same result. I am assuming it must be a handshake issue between the HR24 and the Denon. It's driving the wife crazy which of course means my life is affected:(

#12 OFFLINE   OptimusPrime

OptimusPrime

    Legend

  • Registered
  • 150 posts
Joined: Apr 26, 2008

Posted 21 June 2011 - 06:54 PM

I'm having the same type of problem. My HR24-500 is connected via HDMI to my Denon 3310. Some channels such as SunSports have no audio while others such as NBC drop audio during commercials or during some segments of news shows. Turning Dolby digital off gives me sound, but it kind of dumb watching an HD channel without digital sound. I have tried connecting hdmi to the Samsung lcd and optical to the Denon, still the same result. I am assuming it must be a handshake issue between the HR24 and the Denon. It's driving the wife crazy which of course means my life is affected:(


I'm no expert, but the same happens to me on an LG television, without an AVR connected. Yes, probably an HDMI handshake issue, but if I were to guess, it's the DTV equipment, not your AVR. Power down, power up usually resolves my problem, or RBR.
My setup:

HR21-700, LG 42" 42LB5D (HDMI)

R22-200 w/HD, RCA 32" tube (S-video)

HR22-100, Samsung 58" PN58B550 (HDMI)
Xbox 360 (HDMI)
Denon AVR 2311CI (7.2)
MonoPrice in-wall speakers

#13 OFFLINE   Teacherman

Teacherman

    Mentor

  • Registered
  • 36 posts
Joined: Oct 20, 2006

Posted 22 June 2011 - 04:50 PM

Update on my HR24-500 audio drops: moved to Component and Toslink, now only NBC news shows such as The Today Show and Nightly News lose commercials and the Fox Sports channels have no audio at all without turning off DD on the HR24. Weird!

#14 OFFLINE   LollyOllie

LollyOllie

    New Member

  • Registered
  • 1 posts
Joined: Jul 27, 2011

Posted 27 July 2011 - 09:26 PM

CARL SPOCK IS CORRECT!!!

A few days ago we noticed that our 3yr old RCA didnt have sound on all the channels. Most of the channels had sound, but not all the channels had sound. Some of the effected channels would have sound only during the commercials and others channels had no sound even during the commercials.

while some channels had no sound ....there was one channel that was in SPANISH... but only one channel!!!

I did a google search and found alot of comcast people saying that the " Lang " button on the comcast remote could accidentally get pushed. .... But I dont have comcast (i have charter cable) and my remote doesnt have a " lang " button!!! NO HELP!!!!

A little more research and I found one person saying that they had solved this problem by changing the SAP feature to off. I went to menu> audio> and found SAP under the MTS
Our MTS didnt have an off, but it did have the option to switch it from SAPto STR.
.... our MTS was on SAP and we switched it to STR and our Television now has sound on all the channels. PROBLEM SOLVED!!!!

We dont know how the setting got accidentally changed to SAP. It is just me and my husband, and we never fool with the settings. Anyway I wanted to put this on a forum because I didnt see a fix for this problem on many tv forums.

I later found a charter site that said the charter remote had a SAP button (Second Audio Programming) , but I have charter and my remote doesnt have a SAP button. Since I didnt have a Second Audio Programming (SAP) button on my remote I had to go to the onscreen (on screen menu) and change the (SAP) setting to STR.

tag: some tv television channels dont have sound except during the commercial RCA no sound Charter cable Spanish English language lang

Edited by LollyOllie, 27 July 2011 - 09:33 PM.


#15 OFFLINE   ThomasM

ThomasM

    RF Engineer

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 4,317 posts
  • LocationMilwaukee, WI
Joined: Jul 20, 2007

Posted 28 July 2011 - 05:46 PM

Very weird....and interesting!

Now that everything is digital (including OTA channels) is there even such a thing as SAP? SAP (secondary audio program) was a feature introduced into NTSC broadcasts when stereo was introduced. There was also a PRO (professional) audio channel used by broadcasters.

Many "cable" channels offered second language programming which could be selected by the cable/satellite box but it had nothing to do with NTSC SAP programming.

Is the problem that these TV's are somehow changing their (digital) configuration to pick up a secondary language program? If so, that is odd because when NTSC TV's were set to receive the SAP channel, if it didn't exist on certain broadcasts, the MAIN audio channel would automatically be selected.

3LNB Phase III Dish * 2-R15-300 * R22-200 * D12-100 * DirecTV Subscriber since Y2K


#16 OFFLINE   MJfromMD

MJfromMD

    New Member

  • Registered
  • 3 posts
Joined: Jan 10, 2008

Posted 13 July 2012 - 12:40 PM

I know this thread is old, but so is this problem. I wonder if anyone else out there is just living with it, as we are. I have 3 DirecTv receivers in my home, and the newest one is a DVR. I use the DVR in our main room as the TV source for our Home Theater (HT) system. However, in troubleshooting I swapped the DVR with 2 "older" H21/H22 receivers - and all exhibit the problem identically.

"The problem" is strictly audio - and noted only when the Dolby Digital (DD) audio format set to "on" in the DirecTv receiver. This problem is that “SOME” – (but not all) DirecTv channels have "faulty" D.D. audio. "Faulty" is defined as either a constant "skipping" in/out, (at about 1-2 second rate - blip, blip, blip, etc.) - or audio on a channel may be absent altogether.

I use a Denon AVR-1802 as my Home Theater (HT) surround amplifier. It drives a healthy JBL "Northbridge" 5.1 speaker system. (We don't use the TV's internal speakers and leave them switched “off”).

The TV used in this setup employs a very nice 55" LED/LCD display, with a 480Hz video refresh rate. (I am purposely omitting the mfgr. to avoid focus on the video or considering the TV as a potential factor. It has proven to be irrelevant to this issue).

The Denon AVR unit has no HDMI input, so either the fiber optic or digital coax outputs are utilized to directly transport the DVR's audio to the AVR's input, when using DirecTv. It has discrete coaxial inputs for providing lossless audio from other capable (decoded) sources, but that is not relative to the issue at hand.

I have read forums where others also reported experiencing this problem, particularly those having older Denon AVRs, but it has never been explained how it can occur, nor has it been proven to be an actual problem with Denon's units.

I have provided EVERYTHING concerning the issue in writing, to both DirecTv AND Denon technical staff members, (yes - if you search long and hard enough, DirecTv DOES actually have some)!

De-selecting Dolby Digital in the DirecTv receiver and reverting back to only PCM audio output DOES cure the problem, (but then -you get no DD audio :()

Configuration Note: The DirecTv Video is transferred directly to the TV over the HDMI cable. The Audio could obviously be transferred over this same cable as well, but then it must be again cabled from the TV "audio outputs" to the Denon AVR's audio inputs. This option for cabling the audio via the TV has been tried as an alternative for troubleshooting purposes, but the result was the same. The DD audio problem remained unchanged.

Here are the strangest details that make no sense to me:

1. Since it happens ONLY on certain of the satellite receiver channels, (yet consistently occurs on 3 individually-tested DirecTv HD DVR/receivers) it would seem to be some sort of a DirecTv "design bug" (whether software, hardware, or formatting). I theorize this because the audio quality experienced on the other "working" channels, (whether "local broadcast" or DirecTv's lineup) is fine, and correctly-recognized Dolby Digital 5.1 - and it sounds excellent.
2. Playback of recorded programs by the DirecTv DVR makes no difference to the erroneous indications. By de-selecting DD in the settings, the recorded data always plays fine as PCM, (i.e. Pro-logic II, stereo, mono, etc.).
3. Using my Oppo disc player as the "source" for input to the Denon AVR, all media’s audio sounds great. No problems have ever been encountered.
4. The killer: Changing the configuration and using the TV audio/speaker system alone, (without the HT AVR for audio processing) DOES NOT exhibit the audio problem! :confused:

Some may say that this one fact somehow indicts the Denon AVR Dolby Digital encoder. But how could the Denon AVR have such a problem, (i.e. decoding the DD audio incorrectly to cause error on only "some" satellite (DirecTv) channels)?

DirecTv says if others DO have this same problem, not enough have complained to warrant any efforts on their part to investigate the issue. Denon said that the symptoms themselves point ONLY to the satellite receiver system since the AVR receives only the audio stream and cares not about which channel the tuner has selected. They also point out that no other source/input, except the DirecTv satellite system has exhibited the problem.

A real mind-wrecker.

#17 OFFLINE   TomCat

TomCat

    Broadcast Engineer

  • Registered
  • 3,365 posts
Joined: Aug 31, 2002

Posted 14 July 2012 - 07:57 PM

...Turning Dolby digital off gives me sound, but it kind of dumb watching an HD channel without digital sound...

It's only dumb if you assume that:

1) ...analog audio in your living room is inferior to digital audio. It's not. The advantages of digital audio are that it does not degrade in a hostile environment and that it can carry 6 or more discrete channels.

Your living room is not a hostile environment to audio (although you did allude to some sort of "wife" factor), and analog audio which starts out with the same exact fidelity as digital audio (from this sort of consumer source), will not degrade in your living room assuming you have everything connected properly and everything is working properly. Just because local audio in your living room might be analog does not imply it will not have quality matching digital audio. It usually will.

The hostile environment is the trip up to the satellite and back down to your dish. That is where the advantage of digital is, because 46,000 miles later, the audio quality will be exactly the same as when it left the uplink.

And, its only dumb if you assume that:

2) ...converting digital audio to analog somehow degrades the fidelity. Done right, it doesn't, and you have to do that eventually to hear it anyway. In fact, it may have gone through a number of conversions to and from digital or analog and back before it ever gets to you, none of which appreciably degrade it. It certainly is digital as it is delivered to your living room, and a conversion to analog is both absolutely necessary and typically not problematic.

Now all bets are off (mostly) if you are getting 5.1 and for some reason you have to use the analog path which implies 2.0 only, but even that can be processed locally into a passable equivalent of 5.1. And still, the quality is the same; what is different is that the surround channels are no longer discrete, but are simulated from matrix decoding.

There is a huge misconception that digital content has quality better than analog content. There is also a huge misconception that DD is a significant improvement over analog audio or analog surround.

Part of that is because any change from analog to digital is coincidental with a change to better equipment; that new AVR sounds better mostly because it is a new AVR, not because it just also happens to have 5.1. It is also because it is poorly understood that the improvements that come with digital are not because it is digital and no longer analog (with the improper conclusion that digital must then be better), but because the original quality is preserved by digital during transport, which is something analog is not very good at. The quality is the same, but digital can preserve that quality during transport while analog typically can't. But we typically only hear consumer audio after transport, so all analog usually sounds worse than all digital to consumers as it arrives.

Even so, that does not imply that analog is inferior, in many ways it is inherently superior to digital, which is really only tiny samples of the whole enchilada. The reason is the degradation in transport; not that digital is somehow magically better. It's neither magical nor better.

Edited by TomCat, 14 July 2012 - 08:04 PM.

It's usually safe to talk honestly and openly with people because they typically are not really listening anyway.

#18 OFFLINE   TomCat

TomCat

    Broadcast Engineer

  • Registered
  • 3,365 posts
Joined: Aug 31, 2002

Posted 14 July 2012 - 08:35 PM

..."The problem" is strictly audio - and noted only when the Dolby Digital (DD) audio format set to "on" in the DirecTv receiver. This problem is that “SOME” – (but not all) DirecTv channels have "faulty" D.D. audio. "Faulty" is defined as either a constant "skipping" in/out, (at about 1-2 second rate - blip, blip, blip, etc.) - or audio on a channel may be absent altogether.

I use a Denon AVR-1802 as my Home Theater (HT) surround amplifier. It drives a healthy JBL "Northbridge" 5.1 speaker system. (We don't use the TV's internal speakers and leave them switched “off”)...

...I have read forums where others also reported experiencing this problem, particularly those having older Denon AVRs, but it has never been explained how it can occur, nor has it been proven to be an actual problem with Denon's units.

...Some may say that this one fact somehow indicts the Denon AVR Dolby Digital encoder. But how could the Denon AVR have such a problem, (i.e. decoding the DD audio incorrectly to cause error on only "some" satellite (DirecTv) channels)?

DirecTv says if others DO have this same problem, not enough have complained to warrant any efforts on their part to investigate the issue. Denon said that the symptoms themselves point ONLY to the satellite receiver system since the AVR receives only the audio stream and cares not about which channel the tuner has selected. They also point out that no other source/input, except the DirecTv satellite system has exhibited the problem.

A real mind-wrecker.

Here is an example where analog is MUCH superior to digital. The two main factors are:

1) digital technology is in its infancy, while analog is mature.

2) the nature of analog is that problems can be tracked through the system easily in comparison to digital. Digital allows any number of ways of doing things, many sophisticated and complex, while analog is constrained into a few methods, all of which are not all that sophisticated or complex.


We have had over a hundred years to perfect analog techniques for recording and reproducing sound and later video, and in transporting it to consumers. We are pretty good at understanding it and in implementing it.

Digital in audio and video only appeared 30 years ago, and the conversion to digital really only began less than 20 years ago, while many systems are still just beginning to transition to digital.

Things take time to settle. A long time. It took the TV industry two full decades after color was introduced before we could reliably expect that we would not have to constantly adjust it. Color was introduced in 1953 but in the early seventies it was still common that one show would be tinted too magenta while the next would be tinted too green. They put the knob right on the front of the set so we could have a handle on that, and it wasn't until they finally figured out themselves how to control it that that knob finally disappeared. Twenty years later.

Its going to take more years before consumer digital audio, closed captioning, even HD itself finally settles down and is no longer problematic.

And digital standards have an Achilles heel, which is that to keep them from becoming obsolete there is no strict instruction on how the standards are implemented. This has the positive effect of embracing new ways of doing things as they emerge, but it has the negative effect of those who implement these things still being in the wild, wild west era of implementation.

Denon is an example. While they make fine products, they are notorious for not handling digital audio sources smoothly. Often folks need a firmware upgrade to get them working and compatible with all of the many ways audio is implemented.

Another example is that in the analog era a TV or radio broadcaster could buy a TV or radio to monitor their own signal and use that as a reliable way to know that the audience could receive their signal. Today there are so many paths of delivery and so many different ways of designing a digital tuner that just being confident the signal receives properly on TV A has no bearing at all on whether it will receive on TV B.

There can be a tiny typo in a UI for setting up PSIP, for example, that can kill reception completely for just a single manufacturer, or a single model of TV. The station won't know there is a problem until you call them, and until the problem reaches critical mass (like Denon and DTV compatibility is just beginning to) not much can be done to fix it very quickly.

Pioneers get the arrows; settlers end up with the land. If you are on the cutting edge, and everyone who tries to use digital audio distribution in their home still kind of is, you will get with that a certain amount of aggravation that will not plague those who are using tried and true methods. That will always be the reality of immature technology.

Its getting better, but not quickly, and there is still a long way to go.

Edited by TomCat, 14 July 2012 - 08:42 PM.

It's usually safe to talk honestly and openly with people because they typically are not really listening anyway.




spam firewall