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Pro Installation Questions


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83 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   Rik756

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Posted 02 July 2011 - 12:59 PM

Hi all,

After some reading here I am still pretty lost as to what the "Pro Installer" did vs what he should have done. It all may be on the up and up but since he has to come back to install a modem of some sort, I wanted to arm myself with a little more knowledge.

Here's the situation:
Upgrading from HD service to HD DVR with Whole Home and the Cinema kit.

I had two H21-100 but swapped the living room RX to an HR24-200 with a new RC65RX remote. In the bedroom, he installed the "Connected Home Adapter" DECA 1MR0-01 to the remaining H21-100.

The installer changed the LNB on the dish from one with three nodes to one with a single node. He also cut one of the two wires coming from the dish into the house and capped it. He didn't install the retaining nuts on the new LNB and when I asked about it, he said they weren't necessary. He took both of them off to remove the old one.

In the attic he installed a "Power Inserter" on the sat line and a DPD2 diplexer on the internet line. He said that since I have Comcast internet instead of AT&T he would have to install their modem despite me having a Netgear wireless router. Of course despite the 9 day advanced notice of installation he didn't have the modem available... He said he would have to install a second diplexer downstairs with my current Comcast Surfboard SB4200 modem.

My questions are:
Is what he is telling me accurate or am I being fed some crap? I don't understand the need for the diplexers and additional modem. The run from my router to the HD DVR would be about 80' and have to be fished through the walls to go with a hard wire or I would do that myself. I have wireless so if the RX is wireless, why do I need the other modem?

1. Are the bolts on the LNB really optional or was he just lazy?

2. Given the equipment I have and that he installed, does it appear to be done correctly or do any of you notice any issues?

3. Will all this diplexing hurt my internet service? I play online games (COD, BFBC etc) so speed is very important to me. I have three computers on almost full time and three Nintendo DSI's sporadically running on the net already lol.

4. He told me I could just throw away the old LNB. Is that normal? Seems like a waste when it appeared to otherwise work fine.

The old remote I have works fine with my Olevia TV, but no matter what I do I can't get the current remote (RC65RX) to turn the TV off. I think he was supposed to have programmed it but did not... Are there any known issues with the new remotes? None of the listed codes nor 11191 scan code worked for me. I don't remember what we used on the old remote. Is the new remote even necessary or that much better?

Overall the picture quality is great and the DVR function works fine. I can't test the Cinema part until I get their modem though.

Any help, input or advice is appreciated. I included pics since a lot of the posts I read asked the poster to confirm they were listing the right parts or models.

Thanks,
Rick

Attached Thumbnails

  • Old LNB.JPG
  • New LNB.JPG
  • New HD DVR.JPG
  • In attic.JPG
  • Splitter in attic.JPG
  • LAN diplexer in attic.JPG
  • Behind H21 in bedroom.JPG
  • HD RX in bedroom.JPG

Edited by Rik756, 02 July 2011 - 03:17 PM.
Added question


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#2 OFFLINE   joe diamond

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Posted 02 July 2011 - 01:49 PM

Hi all,

After some reading here I am still pretty lost as to what the "Pro Installer" did vs what he should have done. It all may be on the up and up but since he has to come back to install a modem of some sort, I wanted to arm myself with a little more knowledge.

Here's the situation:
Upgrading from HD service to HD DVR with Whole Home and the Cinema kit.

I had two H21-100 but swapped the living room RX to an HR24-200 with a new RC65RX remote. In the bedroom, he installed the "Connected Home Adapter" DECA 1MR0-01 to the remaining H21-100.

The installer changed the LNB on the dish from one with three nodes to one with a single node. He also cut one of the two wires coming from the dish into the house and capped it. He didn't install the retaining nuts on the new LNB and when I asked about it, he said they weren't necessary. He took both of them off to remove the old one.

In the attic he installed a "Power Inserter" on the sat line and a DPD2 diplexer on the internet line. He said that since I have Comcast internet instead of AT&T he would have to install their modem despite me having a Netgear wireless router. Of course despite the 9 day advanced notice of installation he didn't have the modem available... He said he would have to install a second diplexer downstairs with my current Comcast Surfboard SB4200 modem.

My questions are:
Is what he is telling me accurate or am I being some some crap I don't have to have with all the diplexers and additional modem? The run from my router to the HD DVR would be 80' and have to be fished through the walls to go hard wire.

1. Are the bolts on the LNB really optional or was he just lazy?

2. Given the equipment I have and that he installed, does it appear to be done correctly or do any of you notice any issues?

3. Will all this diplexing hurt my internet service? I play online games (COD, BFBC etc) so speed is very important to me. I have three computers on almost full time and three Nintendo DSI's sporadically running on the net already lol.

The old remote I have works fine with my Olevia TV, but no matter what I do I can't get the current remote (RC65RX) to turn the TV off. I think he was supposed to have programmed it but did not... Are there any known issues with the new remotes? None of the listed codes nor 11191 scan code worked for me. I don't remember what we used on the old remote. Is the new remote even necessary or that much better?

Overall the picture quality is great and the DVR function works fine. I can't test the Cinema part until I get their modem though.

Any help, input or advice is appreciated. I included pics since a lot of the posts I read asked the poster to confirm they were listing the right parts or models.

Thanks,
Rick


How about if I do #1 and state a principle?

#1. Sure the little bolts are ok to have but they do nothing. The LNB fits into the arm with enough friction that it will go nowhere. IF it should be hit...deer...kid...lawn mower driver.....it will just pop out and you can slide it back in without tools or adjustment. IF it is bolted in there is a better chance the arm will be broken off or the whole dish will rotate, requiring a little repointing. So I score that one as not necessary....do make marks on the dish and mast so you can realingn things if the rig gets bumped. Forget the bolts.

And the principle; Directv provides signal & equipment. They do their best to make it compatible with all the AV equipment in North America. They do what they can but there is no promise it will work. Somewhere in there with the cat5 wire, internet signal, diplexing internet and remote control programming you are on your own,

I'll also watch as others with recent experience comment on your other concerns.

Joe

#3 OFFLINE   Rik756

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Posted 02 July 2011 - 03:10 PM

How about if I do #1 and state a principle?

#1. Sure the little bolts are ok to have but they do nothing. The LNB fits into the arm with enough friction that it will go nowhere. IF it should be hit...deer...kid...lawn mower driver.....it will just pop out and you can slide it back in without tools or adjustment. IF it is bolted in there is a better chance the arm will be broken off or the whole dish will rotate, requiring a little repointing. So I score that one as not necessary....do make marks on the dish and mast so you can realingn things if the rig gets bumped. Forget the bolts.

And the principle; Directv provides signal & equipment. They do their best to make it compatible with all the AV equipment in North America. They do what they can but there is no promise it will work. Somewhere in there with the cat5 wire, internet signal, diplexing internet and remote control programming you are on your own,

I'll also watch as others with recent experience comment on your other concerns.

Joe

Thank you, I appreciate the bit about the bolts anyway. I was more concerned that it would blow out as we have some pretty nasty storms here in Memphis.

I guess the underlying cause of my concern is that I did EVERYTHING possible to ensure my house was ready when the guy got here and to make it as easy as possible and comfortable for him. He still rushed through absolutely every part with little or no conversation or explanation. I had my ladder set up at the dish waiting for him (the dish is on the corner of the roof), when he called and said he was on his way I hung a drop light, opened the door to let AC in and set a fan in the attic to cool it off and make it more comfortable while he worked in there and I moved everything out away from all the receivers and cleaned it all off. When he got here I offered him bottled water, Pepsi and Bud Light, all of which he declined.

He was here to install and didn't make time for any conversations or explanations about any of it. He also called the job in as complete to whoever they call despite me not having the modem installed. He "hoped" he would be able to get it to me sometime next week after the holiday. All told, he might have spent 25 minutes from first knock to out the door. He also said they would send a recover box for my old rx instead of him taking it. I don't know if that is standard or not.

Anyway, his huge rush and lack of explanations is why I am concerned that he may have cut corners rather than taking the time to do it right.

Thanks,
Rick

#4 OFFLINE   Yoda-DBSguy

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Posted 02 July 2011 - 04:30 PM

Not putting the retaining bolts/nuts back in that hold the lnb sounds more like laziness to me as an installer and the fact that he though he was done on the roof and didn't want to setup and get back up there "yet again"....

Although diplexing can work with certain swm setups; it is not recommended nor supported with HD setups. It is always better to run an entirely different dedicated coaxial line as to not cause problems down the line with either satellite reception, OTA reception, or cable modem/internet issues.

#5 OFFLINE   joe diamond

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Posted 02 July 2011 - 04:40 PM

Thank you, I appreciate the bit about the bolts anyway. I was more concerned that it would blow out as we have some pretty nasty storms here in Memphis.

I guess the underlying cause of my concern is that I did EVERYTHING possible to ensure my house was ready when the guy got here and to make it as easy as possible and comfortable for him. He still rushed through absolutely every part with little or no conversation or explanation. I had my ladder set up at the dish waiting for him (the dish is on the corner of the roof), when he called and said he was on his way I hung a drop light, opened the door to let AC in and set a fan in the attic to cool it off and make it more comfortable while he worked in there and I moved everything out away from all the receivers and cleaned it all off. When he got here I offered him bottled water, Pepsi and Bud Light, all of which he declined.

He was here to install and didn't make time for any conversations or explanations about any of it. He also called the job in as complete to whoever they call despite me not having the modem installed. He "hoped" he would be able to get it to me sometime next week after the holiday. All told, he might have spent 25 minutes from first knock to out the door. He also said they would send a recover box for my old rx instead of him taking it. I don't know if that is standard or not.

Anyway, his huge rush and lack of explanations is why I am concerned that he may have cut corners rather than taking the time to do it right.

Thanks,
Rick


Hey Rick,

Yup, the rush is part of the game. I found that to do everything and have conversations with the customer two installations a day were about it. As Directv takes over installations from the gentlemen who were previously demanding four jobs a day Directv is discovering how much an installation costs.

So you get ..."wham, bam & thank you mame..." They run until the see their checks & quit. (IMHO) of course.

The diplexers will kick you off the internet in many instances.

Joe

#6 OFFLINE   The Merg

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Posted 02 July 2011 - 05:16 PM

I'm not following what he did with your Internet line in the attic. Did the installer put in the DPD2 diplexer? Which way is it going? Was he splitting out the SAT signal or adding it in there? Also, there would have to be another diplexer to split the signals back apart. Where is that one?

The modem the installer is referring to that he did not have is not really a modem. It the Cinema Connection Kit. Basically, it is a "switch" that connects to a coax from the satellite dish and bridges the coax network to your home network. So one end has the coax going in and the other end has an ethernet cable that goes to your router.

In most cases, they try to install this near your router as it makes things easier. If you have a receiver near the router, it is an easy setup. If you don't have a receiver near the router, they can run a coax to there to set this up. There is also a new version of the CCK that can connect back to your router wirelessly, so this means they don't need to worry about where it is being installed.

As for what type of Internet service you have doesn't really matter. The CCK will be connecting to whatever router you are currently using and will use that router to get your receivers connected to the Internet.

- Merg

Today's problems don't worry me, I haven't solved yesterday's yet.

SlimLine-3 Dish w/ SWM16 (HD Service / WHDVR) / Full Setup
HR34-700 / Panasonic TC-P50G25 HDTV / HDMI / Networked - DECA / Family Room
HR44-700 / Samsung HCM5525W HDTV / Component / Networked - DECA / Bedroom

HR24-100 / Samsung HCM5525W HDTV / Component / Networked - DECA / Bedroom


#7 OFFLINE   Rik756

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Posted 02 July 2011 - 06:06 PM

I'm not following what he did with your Internet line in the attic. Did the installer put in the DPD2 diplexer? Which way is it going? Was he splitting out the SAT signal or adding it in there? Also, there would have to be another diplexer to split the signals back apart. Where is that one?

The modem the installer is referring to that he did not have is not really a modem. It the Cinema Connection Kit. Basically, it is a "switch" that connects to a coax from the satellite dish and bridges the coax network to your home network. So one end has the coax going in and the other end has an ethernet cable that goes to your router.

In most cases, they try to install this near your router as it makes things easier. If you have a receiver near the router, it is an easy setup. If you don't have a receiver near the router, they can run a coax to there to set this up. There is also a new version of the CCK that can connect back to your router wirelessly, so this means they don't need to worry about where it is being installed.

As for what type of Internet service you have doesn't really matter. The CCK will be connecting to whatever router you are currently using and will use that router to get your receivers connected to the Internet.

- Merg


Joe- NOT what I wanted to hear about the diplex issue :-( I was hoping that prepping everything and being as helpful as I could I might garner a little extra attention from the guy. Such was NOT the case for sure.

Merg-

He installed the diplexer between the main cable line coming into the house and the SWM. He said he would have to install another diplexer down by the modem and my router somewhere. My comcast modem and router are in my office; the HD DVR is in the living room which is at least a 60-80' cable run away and that line does not exist yet. I thought the cinema kit would allow me to connect via wireless right from the DVR... Guess not.

See the below pic for a better explanation of how the lines are run. Hope it helps you, to help me! The "To Router" actually goes to the Comcast cable modem and then to my router. There is also what appears to be a ground wire attached to the main satellite cable, but it was just cut off and left hanging.

Thanks,
Rick

Attached Thumbnails

  • Lines.JPG

Edited by Rik756, 02 July 2011 - 06:16 PM.


#8 OFFLINE   mini1

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Posted 02 July 2011 - 06:33 PM

Are you running (or trying to) cable internet and satellite with SWM over the same coax line?

#9 OFFLINE   Rik756

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Posted 02 July 2011 - 06:42 PM

Are you running (or trying to) cable internet and satellite with SWM over the same coax line?

I don't really know the answer to that.

I believe that is what he did with the diplexor and the SWM based on the above pic though. Maybe you can tell me?

Thanks,
Rick

#10 OFFLINE   joe diamond

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Posted 02 July 2011 - 08:56 PM

Joe- NOT what I wanted to hear about the diplex issue :-( I was hoping that prepping everything and being as helpful as I could I might garner a little extra attention from the guy. Such was NOT the case for sure.

Merg-

He installed the diplexer between the main cable line coming into the house and the SWM. He said he would have to install another diplexer down by the modem and my router somewhere. My comcast modem and router are in my office; the HD DVR is in the living room which is at least a 60-80' cable run away and that line does not exist yet. I thought the cinema kit would allow me to connect via wireless right from the DVR... Guess not.

See the below pic for a better explanation of how the lines are run. Hope it helps you, to help me! The "To Router" actually goes to the Comcast cable modem and then to my router. There is also what appears to be a ground wire attached to the main satellite cable, but it was just cut off and left hanging.

Thanks,
Rick


Again,

Rather than cancel your work the guy just skipped the grounding aspect. No big deal. That little wire does ground the system but is NOT lightning protection. The static charge will disapate if one even develops...need much wind & time for that.

FYI....... that little ground wire should be attached to a ground block with the Sat to Receiver line. From the ground block & within 20 ft there should be a bigger ground wire going to the main ground bond with the telco & the house electric. It is a code thing.

Anyone?

Joe

#11 OFFLINE   Rik756

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Posted 02 July 2011 - 10:05 PM

Also just realized that if I record something in the bedroom(HD RX), it will change the channel to the recorded one in the living room (HD DVR) and not let you change channels in the living room until you stop the recording. Surely that can't be right is it?

#12 OFFLINE   houskamp

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Posted 02 July 2011 - 10:18 PM

it is if it's already recording one show

AKA: SMOKE
MRV was all that's left on my wishlist (wishlist done) :D


#13 OFFLINE   The Merg

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Posted 02 July 2011 - 10:47 PM

Joe- NOT what I wanted to hear about the diplex issue :-( I was hoping that prepping everything and being as helpful as I could I might garner a little extra attention from the guy. Such was NOT the case for sure.

Merg-

He installed the diplexer between the main cable line coming into the house and the SWM. He said he would have to install another diplexer down by the modem and my router somewhere. My comcast modem and router are in my office; the HD DVR is in the living room which is at least a 60-80' cable run away and that line does not exist yet. I thought the cinema kit would allow me to connect via wireless right from the DVR... Guess not.

See the below pic for a better explanation of how the lines are run. Hope it helps you, to help me! The "To Router" actually goes to the Comcast cable modem and then to my router. There is also what appears to be a ground wire attached to the main satellite cable, but it was just cut off and left hanging.

Thanks,
Rick


The one cable you have labeled TO SWM, what do you mean by that? It appears that you have a SWM LNB installed, so I'm not sure what that TO SWM is supposed to go to. Do you mean the Cinema Connection Kit? If so, I don't believe you can diplex SWM/DECA on a coax line that is carrying cable Internet. If VOS is around, he could probably clarify that.

As for connecting back to your router wirelessly, that is a possibility. The new Cinema Connection Kit from DirecTV would be installed behind one of your receivers. It would then connect wirelessly back to your router to give you Internet access to all of your receivers. There is no need to run a coax cable to where your router is or diplex the satellite coax with the cable coax.

As for the ground wire, that should be connected per code.

Also just realized that if I record something in the bedroom(HD RX), it will change the channel to the recorded one in the living room (HD DVR) and not let you change channels in the living room until you stop the recording. Surely that can't be right is it?


As houskamp mentioned, if you are already recording something on the DVR and then record something else via the HD receiver, the DVR will change channels to the recording. Also, if for some reason you are only working on one tuner on the DVR, the same thing will happen. To test the latter, start to record something on the DVR while nothing else is recording. Change the channel, if you can do that you are using both tuners.

- Merg

Today's problems don't worry me, I haven't solved yesterday's yet.

SlimLine-3 Dish w/ SWM16 (HD Service / WHDVR) / Full Setup
HR34-700 / Panasonic TC-P50G25 HDTV / HDMI / Networked - DECA / Family Room
HR44-700 / Samsung HCM5525W HDTV / Component / Networked - DECA / Bedroom

HR24-100 / Samsung HCM5525W HDTV / Component / Networked - DECA / Bedroom


#14 OFFLINE   dplantz

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Posted 03 July 2011 - 02:12 AM

Your install is not going to work correctly the way the installer did it. You comcast modem should not be diplexed at all, that is going to cause problems and mav and directv cinema will not work. Is your internet working right now at all? Get rid of the diplexer and run the comcast line directly to your modem. You will need one line from swim to the cinema connection kit to get internet to your dvrs. That can connect wirelessly to your network. BTW a deca can be used to add a switch to your network for more than one device. I have one that powers my second dvr, tv, Att Mircrocell, and blue ray player, unsupported by directv, but works great and says running an another hardline eathernet. Good luck.

#15 OFFLINE   Rik756

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Posted 03 July 2011 - 06:30 AM

Well, it sounds like my fear were correct about the shotty install...

The one cable you have labeled TO SWM, what do you mean by that? It appears that you have a SWM LNB installed, so I'm not sure what that TO SWM is supposed to go to. Do you mean the Cinema Connection Kit? If so, I don't believe you can diplex SWM/DECA on a coax line that is carrying cable Internet. If VOS is around, he could probably clarify that.

Perhaps I should have said from the SWM Splitter? The line named To SWM is between the diplexor and the SWM Splitter. The line labled Bedroom goes to the DECA thing that is behind the H21 in the bedroom.

Your install is not going to work correctly the way the installer did it. You comcast modem should not be diplexed at all, that is going to cause problems and mav and directv cinema will not work. Is your internet working right now at all? Get rid of the diplexer and run the comcast line directly to your modem. You will need one line from swim to the cinema connection kit to get internet to your dvrs. That can connect wirelessly to your network. BTW a deca can be used to add a switch to your network for more than one device. I have one that powers my second dvr, tv, Att Mircrocell, and blue ray player, unsupported by directv, but works great and says running an another hardline eathernet. Good luck.

EDIT HERE:
My internet WAS working fine, but now it has dropped me off 4-5 times in the last couple of hours. I don't know what he removed from between the Cable IN and the line to my office, but they are both male connectors so I'm not sure how to remove the diplexor. HELP?


FYI....... that little ground wire should be attached to a ground block with the Sat to Receiver line. From the ground block & within 20 ft there should be a bigger ground wire going to the main ground bond with the telco & the house electric. It is a code thing.

It's not connected to anything. The line that comes from the sat has a drip loop under the eave and then straight in the house and connects to the single port of SWM Splitter. He cut the small ground line so short that there's no way I could attach it to anything unless I splice it.

The new Cinema Connection Kit from DirecTV would be installed behind one of your receivers.

Is that the DECA thing behind the H21 in the pics from my first post? It appears to be for network.

I guess I'll just have to work-around the recording issue.

Thanks for all the info guys, but now I'm even more confused and I won't be here when the guy comes back. I'll be on business for the next two weeks. If I were to leave him a note or call DTV back, what exactly would I even say?

Edited by Rik756, 03 July 2011 - 07:16 AM.


#16 OFFLINE   joe diamond

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Posted 03 July 2011 - 07:47 AM

Well, it sounds like my fear were correct about the shotty install...


Perhaps I should have said from the SWM Splitter? The line named To SWM is between the diplexor and the SWM Splitter. The line labled Bedroom goes to the DECA thing that is behind the H21 in the bedroom.


EDIT HERE:
My internet WAS working fine, but now it has dropped me off 4-5 times in the last couple of hours. I don't know what he removed from between the Cable IN and the line to my office, but they are both male connectors so I'm not sure how to remove the diplexor. HELP?



It's not connected to anything. The line that comes from the sat has a drip loop under the eave and then straight in the house and connects to the single port of SWM Splitter. He cut the small ground line so short that there's no way I could attach it to anything unless I splice it.


Is that the DECA thing behind the H21 in the pics from my first post? It appears to be for network.

I guess I'll just have to work-around the recording issue.

Thanks for all the info guys, but now I'm even more confused and I won't be here when the guy comes back. I'll be on business for the next two weeks. If I were to leave him a note or call DTV back, what exactly would I even say?


The diplexer merges signal from two sources and allows them to share a single cable. Because the frequencies do not conflict they run on the same cable. Where they are needed at the other end of the cable another diplexer will separate the signals.

It had been observed that the frequencies needed for internet use are not compatible and a best practice is to run a separate line for the internet. In practice whoever gets there first gets to use the existing cable. The new guy gets to run another line.

The diplexer has been fine for years where CATV & Sat use was wanted. Your internet interruptions show this issue has not changed.

From your description of the outside cable from the dish it sounds like the dish location made grounding at the cable entrance point impractical and was skipped; happens.

Joe

#17 OFFLINE   Rik756

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Posted 03 July 2011 - 07:55 AM

Well, as sad as it is, I stole the cable wall jack from one of the upstairs bedrooms to use as a connector and installed it between the main cable line and the line to my office. Works fine now; just looks like crap since I didn't bother to remove the wall plate lol.

I guess I'll have to pay to have them run a lan cable from my router in my office to the HD DVR unless someone has a better solution. I thought this is where the wireless cinema kit would help though.

Will it hurt to leave the port that went from the SWM Splitter to the diplexor open? I don't know much about signal bleed etc...

Thanks,
Rick

#18 OFFLINE   admdata

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Posted 03 July 2011 - 08:25 AM

Well, as sad as it is, I stole the cable wall jack from one of the upstairs bedrooms to use as a connector and installed it between the main cable line and the line to my office. Works fine now; just looks like crap since I didn't bother to remove the wall plate lol.

I guess I'll have to pay to have them run a lan cable from my router in my office to the HD DVR unless someone has a better solution. I thought this is where the wireless cinema kit would help though.

Will it hurt to leave the port that went from the SWM Splitter to the diplexor open? I don't know much about signal bleed etc...

Thanks,
Rick



Yes with Swm all ports must be used or capped!
Account closed by Directv on 7/7/2011
All leased equipment returned

On 7/8/2011 Directv charges me for 2 receivers one DVR at ($175.00) and a Standard STB for ($45.00), good grief!!


Note: Directv did reverse the equipment charges

#19 OFFLINE   Rik756

Rik756

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Posted 03 July 2011 - 08:39 AM

Yes with Swm all ports must be used or capped!


And the hits just keep on coming... :nono:

#20 OFFLINE   Rik756

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Posted 03 July 2011 - 10:33 AM

After a lengthy call to DTV, they said that the first diplexer is installed correctly. They said that the SWM and cable (internet) must be connected. The only part they say I am missing is the DECA box that plugs into my router. They said once that is installed, I should be all set. The couldn't/wouldn't explain why I had to bypass the diplexer to get my internet to work again.

I guess i just have to wait until the guys get back out here next week and I get back from my trip to see what happened. I'll be on sporadically between now and the 16th when I get back if anyone else has any suggestions.

Thanks for all the help fellas.

Rick




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