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Pro Installation Questions


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83 replies to this topic

#21 OFFLINE   Beerstalker

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 07:02 AM

Whoever told you that is wrong. You cannot diplex the cable model signal and a DirecTV signal that is using Whole Home DVR (which you appear to be using).

Your cable modem line should be a straight shot from the incoming line to your modem. Get rid of the diplexer and the line to the SWM splitter. Terminate the port on the SWM splitter that is no longer used. A simple coax barrel connector that can be bought at Radio Shack or Walmart can be used to connect the incoming cable modem line, and the one that goes to your cable modem. It sounds like this is what you already did using the wall plate, but without removing the barrel from the wall plate. That was the correct way to fix your cable modem line.

To get your Whole Home DVR system access to the internet your easiest solution would be to get the wireless cinema connection kit. You can then put it in-line with the coax going to either one of your current DirecTV receivers, and it will hook up to your wireless home network to gain access to the internet.
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#22 OFFLINE   BattleZone

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 11:04 AM

FWIW, I've been a satellite (DirecTV and Dish, Residential and Commercial) installer for 7 years, and have worked on over 3000 installs. I have a bit of experience with these things.

1. Your cable modem MUST have its own, direct coax run. It MUST NOT be diplexed together with the satellite line. Yes, in the past, diplexing was possible, but it is no longer possible with "Whole Home DVR" services, and in fact, those WHDVR signals on the cable can burn out your cable modem. I say again: your cable modem MUST have its own, direct coax run.

As Joe correctly stated, the general rule is that whoever got their first gets to use the existing cable, so the installer should not have used your existing cable modem outlet for satellite. He should have run a new cable to that room. Now, there may be difficulties and limitations with how he could do that, and generally the "free" way means running cable on the outside of the house, drilling through an outside wall, and routing the cable inside. Anything beyond that is custom work which you have to pay to the tech. Wall fishing (running the line on the inside of the wall), for example, is custom work, and isn't always possible either.

2. The screws & nuts that hold on the LNB are REQUIRED. Yes, it can be argued that they are redundant, but it doesn't matter; DirecTV requires them, or the whole job will fail a QC inspection and result in a chargeback for the tech. It's a simple thing that should be done.

3. Any unused ports on the splitter must be terminated with a terminating resistor cap. The splitter is shipped with those caps in place already, so there's no excuse for them not to be installed.

4. I urge you in the strongest possible terms to be present for ALL technician visits. You may not be an expert, but you have a fairly good grasp of what's going on, and likely far better than anyone else in your household does. I would not schedule a repeat visit until you can be available.

5. Though DirecTV has taken over much of the installation business, and things have improved a bit for the installers who are now actual DirecTV employees, there are still large numbers of contractors who are doing installs under DirecTV's increasingly corrupt contractor system. The end result of that is that the (contractor) guy who is actually doing the work is woefully underpaid and seeing the complexity of the install continue to increase, with more steps, more parts, and more time needed, but with either no pay increase or more commonly, with pay cuts. The only way to survive is to work as fast as possible and shortcut what you can. It's a horrible way to do business, and DirecTV *HAS* addressed that by bringing more and more of the installation business in-house, but for the contractors that remain, it's a very difficult situation. I'm a contractor myself, and I no longer do residential work as a contractor because it's a financially losing proposition. Since I started, work-load per job has increased 2-3 times due to additional complexity and features, not to mention the increase in the amount and cost of materials over that time, and yet pay has only decreased and chargebacks significantly increased, even when the tech was not to blame.

So, though there are some issues with your install (the cable modem diplexing mainly), understand where your installer is coming from.

I would recommend calling DirecTV and asking for an internal, senior tech to resolve your issues. They aren't huge, but they need someone with some experience and training. And BE THERE to make sure it's done right.

Good luck.

Commercial & Residential Satellite System Design & Installation
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#23 OFFLINE   Rik756

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Posted 15 July 2011 - 02:58 PM

Guys,

I appreciate the info. I'm back in town had rescheduled the install for tomorrow at noon when I am here.

After talking to DTV several times and some "Pro Tech" manager, they are sending someone else out to finish the job. The guy I talked to said it would cost the other guy money, so I guess that is the chargeback you were referring to? I thought he said it was going to cost me money at first which is why I clarified when he said it!

Now my only problem is going to be trying to gently guide the guy into doing the right thing. I'm sure Battlezone and other installers would not find it amusing to have some yahoo tell them they are doing their job wrong based on what they read on the internet. No good way out for me on that one I don't guess.

Hopefully the new installer will have your knowledge and do it right. We'll see in about 24 hours!

Thanks all,

Rick

#24 OFFLINE   ronse

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Posted 17 July 2011 - 06:17 AM

My solution to get things the way I want them is bite the bullet and do it myself!
But you do have to know what you are doing.

Ronse

#25 OFFLINE   Rik756

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Posted 17 July 2011 - 07:37 AM

Ok, so the same guy comes out again. It was an hour later than the appointment window, but whatever. I just want to be done already.

He said that he knew Comcast didn't diplex well but he thought he would give it a try just in case. Since that didn't work my next alternative was to have him run a separate line (exterior) to the office where the router and cable modem are. I expressed some displeasure with that idea and asked if there were any other options. Exterior may be the end result, but he gets another idea instead...

He brainstorms that he can just hardwire the HD DVR and not need to go to the modem or router. So he diplexes the sat signal coming into the HD24 in the living room and installs the black DECA box thing right there between the dish and the RX. He gets all green lights and is pleased with himself. CinemaPlus shows up as a menu option so hey, maybe it worked?

I ask how that will work with the bedroom RX since it is an HD21 and not an HD24. He goes to his truck, gets out another DECA and another HD24 and does the same setup in the bedroom. He gets all green lights and again is pleased with himself. He calls it in, tells me they will send a recovery box and life is good according to him. What the hell, I just got an upgraded RX for my trouble right? :sure: However, do I get to pay extra per month for the new box now?

I just didn't mention the LNB bolts he left off last time but did ask for a barrell connector and terminator cap so I can tidy things up in the attic. He handed them right over.

My question is, are the DECA boxes really doing anything since nothing on my system is actually connected to the internet? Thinking that maybe they worked like a wifi card, I tried going through the setup to see if they would discover my wifi signal but that didn't seem to work.

I can see CinemaPlus as a menu option and I can see and have the option to buy the 400 movies they talk about, but I don't see the 4000 that are supposed to be free. Is that related to the internet by chance? Other than not seeing those, it seems to be working ok...

And your thoughts on this setup are ? ? ?

Thanks,
Rick

EDIT HERE:
To clarify, my real question is what do I need to do from here to be *completely* correct and operational? Do I still need to run a coax to the attic to the router so he can install something there? What did he really do by installing separate DECAs on each box? I'm even more confused now. Do I need the internet to be fully functional with Whole Home, CinemaPlus and VOD?

Edited by Rik756, 17 July 2011 - 07:53 AM.


#26 OFFLINE   kcaudiofx

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Posted 17 July 2011 - 07:53 AM

Ok, so the same guy comes out again. It was an hour later than the appointment window, but whatever. I just want to be done already.

He said that he knew Comcast didn't diplex well but he thought he would give it a try just in case. Since that didn't work my next alternative was to have him run a separate line (exterior) to the office where the router and cable modem are. I expressed some displeasure with that idea and asked if there were any other options. Exterior may be the end result, but he gets another idea instead...

He brainstorms that he can just hardwire the HD DVR and not need to go to the modem or router. So he diplexes the sat signal coming into the HD24 in the living room and installs the black DECA box thing right there between the dish and the RX. He gets all green lights and is pleased with himself. CinemaPlus shows up as a menu option so hey, maybe it worked?

I ask how that will work with the bedroom RX since it is an HD21 and not an HD24. He goes to his truck, gets out another DECA and another HD24 and does the same setup in the bedroom. He gets all green lights and again is pleased with himself. He calls it in, tells me they will send a recovery box and life is good according to him. What the hell, I just got an upgraded RX for my trouble right? :sure: However, do I get to pay extra per month for the new box now?

I just didn't mention the LNB bolts he left off last time but did ask for a barrell connector and terminator cap so I can tidy things up in the attic. He handed them right over.

My question is, are the DECA boxes really doing anything since nothing on my system is actually connected to the internet? Thinking that maybe they worked like a wifi card, I tried going through the setup to see if they would discover my wifi signal but that didn't seem to work.

I can see CinemaPlus as a menu option and I can see and have the option to buy the 400 movies they talk about, but I don't see the 4000 that are supposed to be free. Is that related to the internet by chance? Other than not seeing those, it seems to be working ok...

And your thoughts on this setup are ? ? ?

Thanks,
Rick


Check channel 1000 You will see (Should see) a LOT of channels passed 1000.. 1201, 1235, 1500, etc etc etc etc..

The whole "Bolt issue" is not an issue IMO, that LNB isnt going anywhere, wind or no wind.. if some kind of wind knocks those bolts out, its going to twist your dish first :)

#27 OFFLINE   Rik756

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Posted 17 July 2011 - 07:59 AM

Check channel 1000 You will see (Should see) a LOT of channels passed 1000.. 1201, 1235, 1500, etc etc etc etc..

The whole "Bolt issue" is not an issue IMO, that LNB isnt going anywhere, wind or no wind.. if some kind of wind knocks those bolts out, its going to twist your dish first :)


I do not. When I got to channel 1000, I see it, 1100 and then it goes to 9000 something. I can click on 1000 but only get the CinemaPlus advert. If I click on 1100 I get the VOD with $ behind each of the movies.

I assume that is not right then?

Thanks,
Rick

#28 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 17 July 2011 - 09:12 AM

I do not. When I got to channel 1000, I see it, 1100 and then it goes to 9000 something. I can click on 1000 but only get the CinemaPlus advert. If I click on 1100 I get the VOD with $ behind each of the movies.

I assume that is not right then?

Thanks,
Rick

I'm coming in here way late, so....
You have the whole home DVR service and you can share your playlist, right?
You don't have internet connected to your receivers, right?
You can't mix your cable modem with DirecTV and DECA, on the same coax.
To get internet to your receivers, you do need a DECA connected to your router, "but" there is a new wireless Cinema Connection kit that can be connected behind a receiver and connects to your router wirelessly.
This is so new, your tech may not know about it, so he was going to hardwire one to your router.
A.K.A VOS

#29 OFFLINE   houskamp

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Posted 17 July 2011 - 09:18 AM

my head hurts :lol:

1st diplexing cable internet is gonna be nothing but trouble..
2nd with all 24s there is no need for a deca by each box.. just one somewhere (should be off of a splitter) with powersupply and cat5 connected to your internet..

AKA: SMOKE
MRV was all that's left on my wishlist (wishlist done) :D


#30 OFFLINE   Rik756

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Posted 17 July 2011 - 09:34 AM

I'm coming in here way late, so....
You have the whole home DVR service and you can share your playlist, right? YES
You don't have internet connected to your receivers, right? Correct, no internet.
You can't mix your cable modem with DirecTV and DECA, on the same coax. Tried it, didn't work out.
To get internet to your receivers, you do need a DECA connected to your router, "but" there is a new wireless Cinema Connection kit that can be connected behind a receiver and connects to your router wirelessly. How do I make that connection? I have a wireless router.
This is so new, your tech may not know about it, so he was going to hardwire one to your router.


See above please for your questions. So are the recievers supposed to "see" my wireless network and connect since supposedly the HR24s have the wifi built in? If so, what I am missing or not doing to get them to connect? I checked the router settings (NETGEAR_WNDR3400) and SSID broadcast is on for both 2 and 5ghz connections. I even have guest network on for my kids DSI's but DTV doesn't seem to find them.

houskamp,
We ditched the diplexed internet. As stated above, I have a DECA at each RX now, but nothing connected to the internet.
Thanks!

Edited by Rik756, 17 July 2011 - 09:40 AM.


#31 OFFLINE   houskamp

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Posted 17 July 2011 - 09:38 AM

24s connect across the coax to each other, they do NOT have wireless internal.. then the "conection kit" (maybe a deca or the newer wireless kit) connects to your home network..

AKA: SMOKE
MRV was all that's left on my wishlist (wishlist done) :D


#32 OFFLINE   houskamp

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Posted 17 July 2011 - 09:41 AM

this is a deca: http://www.dbstalk.c...ad.php?t=170910

this is the new wireless kit: http://www.dbstalk.c...ad.php?t=193851

AKA: SMOKE
MRV was all that's left on my wishlist (wishlist done) :D


#33 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 17 July 2011 - 09:41 AM

You need to add one of these: http://www.dbstalk.c...ad.php?t=193851

This is so new that you'll need to get it from DirecTV: http://support.direc...etail/a_id/2993
A.K.A VOS

#34 OFFLINE   Rik756

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Posted 17 July 2011 - 09:42 AM

24s connect across the coax to each other, they do NOT have wireless internal.. then the "conection kit" (maybe a deca or the newer wireless kit) connects to your home network..


I assume that with a DECA at each RX, the RX should be able to discover my home network or do I still need "something" plugged into my router and diplexed into the sat signal?

#35 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 17 July 2011 - 09:47 AM

I assume that with a DECA at each RX, the RX should be able to discover my home network or do I still need "something" plugged into my router and diplexed into the sat signal?

Once you have a bridge from the DECA network to your home network, you'll have internet to all receivers. See post above.
A.K.A VOS

#36 OFFLINE   Rik756

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Posted 17 July 2011 - 09:53 AM

houskamp and veryoldschool,
Thank you for the info. I do in fact have a DECA at each RX (necessary or not) but I do not have the cinema connection kit. It seems that I will have to request that part. So based on the threads you both referenced, I will NOT have to run a wire to the router, that connection kit (modem?) will connect to the RX and IT will be the bridge that connects to my wireless network. Is that correct?

Assuming yes to the above, will I still need a DECA at both boxes or just the HD24 that is in the bedroom? Will I still need a DECA at all?

My order below shows that I should have had the modem/connection kit in the first place, right?

YOUR EQUIPMENT SELECTION
1 DIRECTV Plus® HD DVR $0.00
1 DIRECTV® Whole-Home DVR Upgrade $199.00
1 Cinema Connection Kit $0.00
1 Sales Order Credit -$100.00
Equipment Total $99.00



#37 OFFLINE   houskamp

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Posted 17 July 2011 - 09:59 AM

deca and the wireless kit do the same function: bridge to your internet.. one does it with cat5, other with wireless..

you only need ONE to bridge to your network.. no need for any for 24s as they have it built in..

Idealy you should have cable from dish to PI to splitter..
then one port to each reciever
one port to a deca/wireless kit

AKA: SMOKE
MRV was all that's left on my wishlist (wishlist done) :D


#38 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 17 July 2011 - 09:59 AM

houskamp and veryoldschool,
Thank you for the info. I do in fact have a DECA at each RX (necessary or not) but I do not have the cinema connection kit. It seems that I will have to request that part. So based on the threads you both referenced, I will NOT have to run a wire to the router, that connection kit (modem?) will connect to the RX and IT will be the bridge that connects to my wireless network. Is that correct?

Assuming yes to the above, will I still need a DECA at both boxes or just the HD24 that is in the bedroom? Will I still need a DECA at all?

My order below shows that I should have had the modem/connection kit in the first place, right?

Yes, "but" because the wireless one is so new, you installer may not have had one, or even known about them.
You might be able to call DirecTV and have them ship it to you [free] as you don't have the work order completed.

Now as to DECAs and receivers: any H/HR 24 receivers DON'T need/want to have a white DECA connected. Any other receiver needs to have one.
This is how all the receivers are networked, and then adding the CCK to this network is how the DECA "bridges" [not a modem] to your home network for internet.
A.K.A VOS

#39 OFFLINE   houskamp

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Posted 17 July 2011 - 10:02 AM

also a quick check to see if they are all on the network is that any pc you have should see them in network

AKA: SMOKE
MRV was all that's left on my wishlist (wishlist done) :D


#40 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 17 July 2011 - 10:03 AM

deca and the wireless kit do the same function: bridge to your internet.. one does it with cat5, other with wireless..

you only need ONE to bridge to your network.. no need for any for 24s as they have it built in..

Idealy you should have cable from dish to PI to splitter..
then one port to each reciever
one port to a deca/wireless kit

With a wireless DECA is gets even easier:

http://www.dbstalk.c...=1&d=1310680751
A.K.A VOS




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