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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Angle of surround speakers.


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22 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   Bradcny

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 05:23 PM

I have a 5.1 setup that, for now, uses speaker stands. I'm having the surround speakers wall mounted on Monday. I've read that the angle for surround speakers can be from 90 to 110 degrees. I've attached a photo of one side of my sofa because the 90 degree mark is a door. It appears to me that the wall that is slightly behind the sofa is well within the degree parameters. Does it look ok?

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  • image-1564229244.png


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#2 OFFLINE   spartanstew

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 05:34 PM

That would work fine. Will the other side be the same?

You'll want them about 2' higher than your head, and angled slightly toward the listening area.

I'm sure Directv can't wait to get their hands on your unit.

 
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#3 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 05:52 PM

Direct them to your ears.
Those channels are complimentary and suppose to deliver limited sound measuring by power and frequencies.

#4 OFFLINE   Carl Spock

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 07:12 PM

I'm more in favor of spartanstew's idea. I like it when I can't localize the surround speakers and their sound is bouncing around before I can hear them. I wouldn't have them pointing right at you.

But none of us can know. Only you can. Try them different ways. Mount them the way they sound the best. Play a movie tomorrow night. Try them in three or four different positions during the movie. Use the one that sounds the best.
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#5 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 07:59 PM

I'm more in favor of spartanstew's idea. I like it when I can't localize the surround speakers and their sound is bouncing around before I can hear them. I wouldn't have them pointing right at you.

But none of us can know. Only you can. Try them different ways. Mount them the way they sound the best. Play a movie tomorrow night. Try them in three or four different positions during the movie. Use the one that sounds the best.


That's killing all work of sound engineer ! Distorting background sound your way mean blur intended sound picture. :(

#6 OFFLINE   spartanstew

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 08:00 PM

Direct them to your ears.
Those channels are complimentary and suppose to deliver limited sound measuring by power and frequencies.


I guess this depends on what you mean.

They should be angled slightly forward, but they should not be angled down unless they're 4' or more above the ears. Put them 2' above and don't angle them down.

I'm sure Directv can't wait to get their hands on your unit.

 
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#7 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 08:03 PM

At least do not create direct line between those side speakers' axes. I mean don't point them to each other.

Edited by P Smith, 09 July 2011 - 11:41 PM.
wrong word used


#8 OFFLINE   spartanstew

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 09:05 PM

At least do not create direct line between those rear speakers' axes. I mean don't point them to each other.


Actually, the optimum placement for SIDE speakers in a 5.1 setup (there are no rears) is directly to the side of the listener with the speakers facing each other, but the OP doesn't have that option.

I'm sure Directv can't wait to get their hands on your unit.

 
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#9 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 11:41 PM

OK, side speakers ... The sound picture in part of sides' sources shouldn't based on confronting waves from parallel diffusers directed to each other. They should be angled slightly. That position what you pushing is just dictating by walls, not optimal placements.
Little behind, slightly upper, angled down and to head's of listeners - that would be proper setup for side speakers..

#10 OFFLINE   FarmerBob

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 11:58 PM

These are pages from the AV receiver owners manual that I install a lot that has a really good explanation of speaker placement for their new owners. They are quite informative. Click on the image below and then again to open it in a widow of its own and then again to max resolution for better reading. Right click to save to your computer. If you have any problems, post back. Page 2 upper right hand column is the most detailed.

Hope these pages work for you. They sure have made my life easier when trying to explain why what goes where.

. . . fb

Attached Thumbnails

  • SpeakerPlacement1.gif
  • SpeakerPlacement2.gif

Edited by FarmerBob, 10 July 2011 - 12:11 AM.


#11 OFFLINE   Carl Spock

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 05:02 AM

That's killing all work of sound engineer ! Distorting background sound your way mean blur intended sound picture. :(

I have seen many side surround speakers that shoot the sound out of their sides, rather than at the listener, these Polks for example:

Posted Image

Highlighting the work of the sound engineer is not my primary concern. While I want him to do his job well, motion pictures remain primarily a visual experience. When I hear the surround speakers too directly, it takes my mind off the screen. The sound should compliment the action on the screen, not distract from it.
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#12 OFFLINE   spartanstew

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 08:05 AM

OK, side speakers ... The sound picture in part of sides' sources shouldn't based on confronting waves from parallel diffusers directed to each other. They should be angled slightly. That position what you pushing is just dictating by walls, not optimal placements.
Little behind, slightly upper, angled down and to head's of listeners - that would be proper setup for side speakers..


Side speakers facing each other will not have confronting waves before reaching the listener, so that really doesn't come into play.

You can have them directly to the side facing each other or slightly behind and angled a bit forward, but they should not be angled down (unless they're very high). The human ear has a harder time locating sound sources that are above the head, so ideally they should be about 2' above head level allowing for the sound to travel above the listeners ear. This is not true of front speakers where directionality and sound identification is important, but for sides and/or rears the sounds you should not be able to localize the sound, as it's intended to be ambient, or atmospheric.

Here's a good diagram from Crutchfield:

Posted Image

and some good accompanying text:

Ideally, your primary pair of surround speakers should be placed to the left and right of your listening position

Surround speakers should be placed high enough so that the drivers do not fire directly at your ears when you're sitting down — one rule of thumb is to place them at ear level while standing. (If your surround speakers fire directly at your ears, they can overpower your front speakers.)

I'm sure Directv can't wait to get their hands on your unit.

 
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#13 OFFLINE   spartanstew

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 08:07 AM

I have seen many side surround speakers that shoot the sound out of their sides, rather than at the listener, these Polks for example:


That's my preferred speaker type for surrounds and backs Carl. I actually have Axiom (quad-poles) in my theater for sides and rears and they do a great job of complementing the action and creating atmosphere.

I'm sure Directv can't wait to get their hands on your unit.

 
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#14 OFFLINE   Carl Spock

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 09:26 AM

Here's a video on an Atlantic Technology THX Select Certified surround speaker that's set up a lot like the Polk I pictured above. In it, they make the argument that a speaker with this arrangement can simulate the multiple surround speakers you'd get in a movie theater.

video

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#15 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 11:59 AM

I would recommend you take a look into PDF in post#10.
Actually, Crutchfield diagram demonstrate possible (flat on a wall) location as on edge of recommended - still shown best positions: slightly behind listeners.

#16 OFFLINE   spartanstew

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 12:24 PM

I would recommend you take a look into PDF in post#10.
Actually, Crutchfield diagram demonstrate possible (flat on a wall) location as on edge of recommended - still shown best positions: slightly behind listeners.


I've looked at just about every speaker placement PDF ever made over the years, so there's no need for me to look at that one.

The point is that you said you should not point side speakers directly at each other. That is false. There is nothing wrong with doing that, and it's usually the preferred application. In almost every diagram you'll find, placing them to the side (90 degrees) and directly at each other is one of the preferred set-ups, if not the preferred (including THX standards and Dobly standards).

Yes, they can go slightly behind and angled forward as well, as in the OP's case. They should not however, be angled down, which you also stated (assuming their at the proper height).

There's many ways to place them and it often depends upon the room, but if given the choice, in a 5.1 set-up (7.1 would be different) and with no other parameters, I would place them directly to the side of the listening area, 2' above head height and pointed at each other.

I'm sure Directv can't wait to get their hands on your unit.

 
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#17 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 03:09 PM

From acoustics wave propagation it would be worst position;
it's pictured on those diagrams because 99% ppl will not bother with acoustics,
but it will show convenient way to place side speakers therefore they will buy more complicated 5.1 or 7.1 systems.
My side speakers mounted on special mounts what allow to tilt/pan those for better acoustic picture.

#18 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 05:06 PM

I want to add one more aspect of positioning side speakers: in 5.1 scheme those channels carry not just side but rear sounds too, that's why many diagrams (in favor sound picture, not your room configuration) put side speakers behind listeners. That would be more prone if you are watching contemporary movies.

#19 OFFLINE   spartanstew

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 05:11 PM

From acoustics wave propagation it would be worst position;
it's pictured on those diagrams because 99% ppl will not bother with acoustics,
but it will show convenient way to place side speakers therefore they will buy more complicated 5.1 or 7.1 systems.
My side speakers mounted on special mounts what allow to tilt/pan those for better acoustic picture.


Whatever you say.

I'm sure Directv can't wait to get their hands on your unit.

 
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#20 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 05:16 PM

Whatever you could say (as hypothetical example): front wheels should be installed in parallel for many reasons,
but all cars set them angled to important purpose - stability and self centering.
Just another example of something to argue for nothing...

#21 OFFLINE   tcusta00

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 06:06 PM

I have seen many side surround speakers that shoot the sound out of their sides, rather than at the listener, these Polks for example:

Posted Image

Highlighting the work of the sound engineer is not my primary concern. While I want him to do his job well, motion pictures remain primarily a visual experience. When I hear the surround speakers too directly, it takes my mind off the screen. The sound should compliment the action on the screen, not distract from it.


I used to own a set of Wharfedale's with the surround speakers in that setup and they were much better than the traditional Quads that I use now. Of course this is from a layperson's perspective.

#22 OFFLINE   RobertE

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 09:30 PM

Place them where it sounds best to you. Everyone else can piss off. :)
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#23 OFFLINE   Carl Spock

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Posted 11 July 2011 - 01:22 AM

^ Or wherever they look the best. I have a Craftsman style home with wonderful built-in woodworking and box beams going back a hundred years. During a recent remodel I built three old a/d/s/ speakers into the lath and plaster back wall of my living room, making a 6.1 set-up. It sounds good, not great, but it kept the integrity of the room's architectural design.

RobertE's larger point is spot on. Only you can hear where they sound right to you. Diagrams and speaker theory never trumps real world experience. It has to sound good to you.
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