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Installer states no LOS. Should I pursue further?


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#21 OFFLINE   4120 woodrow ct

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 01:23 PM

As a former Field Supervisor I would definitely request a second opinion. I know it sounds bad, but a lot of installers are lazy. If there is too much work required to do the job they will use a Line of Sight issue to get out of doing a job. Or maybe the installer has a date tonight, or its just too hot in his mind... I found that over 90% I could find a valid line of sight that fit the guidelines required by DirecTV

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#22 OFFLINE   joe diamond

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 02:38 PM

As a former Field Supervisor I would definitely request a second opinion. I know it sounds bad, but a lot of installers are lazy. If there is too much work required to do the job they will use a Line of Sight issue to get out of doing a job. Or maybe the installer has a date tonight, or its just too hot in his mind... I found that over 90% I could find a valid line of sight that fit the guidelines required by DirecTV


4120,

Everything you say is true except the lazy part.

HSPs and Directv get paid for results so they have no problem overbooking the techs. The way the game is played...offer six installations that are miles apart. The guy hits two or three....no problem...back charge him for being late for the other two or three.

So instead of getting more production out of non employee contractors you get less. They try blowing through the hard ones and quit when you screw with their money.

You can whip the horse and add to the load...the horse will try until the horse dies. Then the whip won't work anymore.

And you are right about the other thing. The only installations I do these days are after a Directv or DISH guy...and a supervisor...has decided it can't be done. Sometimes they are right but I get some.

Directv still gets the business.

Joe

Edited by joe diamond, 20 July 2011 - 02:41 PM.
typo


#23 OFFLINE   Tusin

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 03:58 PM

So do you guys suggest I contact DirecTV then and request a supervisor, or contact the local (I think what you guys call HSP's?) and request one? I am assuming the former as when my wife called, the lady told her (according to my wife, with a wee bit of attitude) that this tech is the only one that services our area and there is no one else, because we did request someone else yesterday.

And I try to shy away from calling any lazy. But I am sure our install would have taken longer than a standard one (I don't believe due to extra equipment, but then again the installer never gave us options). But like I said before, he couldn't get out of the driveway fast enough.

#24 OFFLINE   1953

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 04:32 PM

Don't cut ant trees just yet! Call DirecTV then say "Retention". The retention department is an upper level of sales support. Give them all the details about dealing with your local installer. They want you as a customer so they will guide you in your stressful process. Note that your DirecTV may have other installers available to you. Good luck. Please keep us updated.

#25 OFFLINE   Shades228

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 04:42 PM

Don't cut ant trees just yet! Call DirecTV then say "Retention". The retention department is an upper level of sales support. Give them all the details about dealing with your local installer. They want you as a customer so they will guide you in your stressful process. Note that your DirecTV may have other installers available to you. Good luck. Please keep us updated.


Retention could care less if he's not an active customer. Plus they have nothing they can do about this situation so he'd just be wasting his time.

Call customer service and find out the reason the tech canceled the work order, or put it on hold, and if it's due to line of site they will automatically send out a sup to do a site survey. If the sup agrees they will notate it and you can just cancel the order. If they disagree the local office should contact you to reschedule.

You also have to remember that techs are going to follow the rule of always CYA. If there's a chance that doing this install could get them a back charge due to technical problems they'll pass.

You could call a local dealer and see what they say however as they said if you get it installed you're in a 24 mo agreement and if you lose LoS once you're activated that's on you.

#26 OFFLINE   bigglebowski

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 04:46 PM

I see you updated your location.. I show these to be your settings for the above site survey:
Elevation: 10.0°


Got to be rough being in the dish business in AK, even for Dish west arc too.

#27 OFFLINE   Tusin

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 05:29 PM

Retention could care less if he's not an active customer. Plus they have nothing they can do about this situation so he'd just be wasting his time.

Call customer service and find out the reason the tech canceled the work order, or put it on hold, and if it's due to line of site they will automatically send out a sup to do a site survey. If the sup agrees they will notate it and you can just cancel the order. If they disagree the local office should contact you to reschedule.

You also have to remember that techs are going to follow the rule of always CYA. If there's a chance that doing this install could get them a back charge due to technical problems they'll pass.

You could call a local dealer and see what they say however as they said if you get it installed you're in a 24 mo agreement and if you lose LoS once you're activated that's on you.


Ok so I should call Customer Service and try to get a Sup out to my place? And not call retention's.

I get they will try to CYA. But I may be readining your post incorrectly.

Send to last paragraph you said they will be careful as they do not want a charge back. So I am assuming, if problems arise after the install (like not being able to get channels), I could fight DirecTV to cancel and then the installer would get a charge back.

But in the last sentence, I read it as if I do have them install and I lose LOS I am SOL and stuck in the contract. OR are you saying, see if the installer will agree that even if I lose LOS they cannot be held responsible?

Sorry, I am just trying to get as much information as possible before I do anything. But in the end, I do not see why it would hurt to ask to get a second opinion.

#28 OFFLINE   Shades228

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 08:51 PM

Ok so I should call Customer Service and try to get a Sup out to my place? And not call retention's.

I get they will try to CYA. But I may be readining your post incorrectly.

Send to last paragraph you said they will be careful as they do not want a charge back. So I am assuming, if problems arise after the install (like not being able to get channels), I could fight DirecTV to cancel and then the installer would get a charge back.

But in the last sentence, I read it as if I do have them install and I lose LOS I am SOL and stuck in the contract. OR are you saying, see if the installer will agree that even if I lose LOS they cannot be held responsible?

Sorry, I am just trying to get as much information as possible before I do anything. But in the end, I do not see why it would hurt to ask to get a second opinion.


If you have a service call within a specified time frame of an installation the technicians get charged a fee. Basically in a nutshell the technicians are going to want to do the job so they get paid unless it can't get done or if there is a possibility that you'll lose LoS.

#29 OFFLINE   Tusin

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 09:47 PM

Ok but like others have said (or at least as I understand it). If the install takes longer than they would like, they could easily pass and move on to the next. Based on what my wife told me, it sounded like he had multiple other installs to do and it was already late in the day.

Regardless, to update. I did call into DirecTV customer service. Spoke with a very nice lady. So they reopened the service order. They cannot do the scheduling for Alaska, but did add notes for when the installer calls to schedule.

I did ask her some very specific questions and got VERY specific answers. I can have the installer do the install even if the installer says "iffy". And we are NOT bound (or stuck) in the contract regardless of the outcome. We have 24 hours after install/activation to cancel for any reason. And if outside of 24 hours, and if after that we are having issues. We have to let DirecTV try to fix it, and if it cannot be fixed we get out of contract.

I asked her, "so when the installer told my wife, if he installs it, we are bound to the contract regardless, is false"? She said 100% yes.

Also, let's say some of the channels don't come in properly. Well we honestly do not watch that much TV. My wife likes some of the "women channels", we like TLC/Food/Travel. Could care less about locals (can just do OTA). And for me, as long as I can get ESPN/NFL/Sunday Ticket I am good.

One other thing, (and again I am hating this 3rd party stuff, but should be resolved soon). He gave her the impression that they can only install in the center of the roof. Anyone have an idea why? There are houses near ours (same very slight angle roof) that have dishes in various places on the roof.

Anyways, will keep this updated.

#30 OFFLINE   joe diamond

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 12:02 AM

Ok but like others have said (or at least as I understand it). If the install takes longer than they would like, they could easily pass and move on to the next. Based on what my wife told me, it sounded like he had multiple other installs to do and it was already late in the day.

Regardless, to update. I did call into DirecTV customer service. Spoke with a very nice lady. So they reopened the service order. They cannot do the scheduling for Alaska, but did add notes for when the installer calls to schedule.

I did ask her some very specific questions and got VERY specific answers. I can have the installer do the install even if the installer says "iffy". And we are NOT bound (or stuck) in the contract regardless of the outcome. We have 24 hours after install/activation to cancel for any reason. And if outside of 24 hours, and if after that we are having issues. We have to let DirecTV try to fix it, and if it cannot be fixed we get out of contract.

I asked her, "so when the installer told my wife, if he installs it, we are bound to the contract regardless, is false"? She said 100% yes.

Also, let's say some of the channels don't come in properly. Well we honestly do not watch that much TV. My wife likes some of the "women channels", we like TLC/Food/Travel. Could care less about locals (can just do OTA). And for me, as long as I can get ESPN/NFL/Sunday Ticket I am good.

One other thing, (and again I am hating this 3rd party stuff, but should be resolved soon). He gave her the impression that they can only install in the center of the roof. Anyone have an idea why? There are houses near ours (same very slight angle roof) that have dishes in various places on the roof.

Anyways, will keep this updated.


Tusin,

A mid roof mast is an invitation to a roof leak and interior damage. Directv may have a policy for their CSRs (Customer Service Representatives) like..."no problem."

Each state has different laws about home sales. In some if you initiate the sale there is no try out period. In others there is a buyers remorse period. Check state laws where you are...you cannot sign away your legal rights. Also you should know the position of a vendor in your state.

There are special techniques for attaching a mast & dish to a roof...............monopoles etc. but the installation manual says to avoid over-living-space installations. Since the Alaska dish size is bigger than down south your fun with high winds will be greater. How do you feel about climbing out on your roof to remove snow from the dish? It does snow a little in Alaska, right?

The subcontractor (Home Service Provider= HSP) has to eat the damage. IF for any reason you cancel your installation the seller (HSP or retailer) gets a 100% charge back of sales commission & installation fees.

The installer, further down the food chain, gets a charge back even if he is late or, after you have your installation activated, you call Directv for any reason....... even to get his address to send him a thank you note & tip.

Add to that just the driving costs & time involved. I have seen shows about Alaska but have no knowledge of the state. Here in rural east Maryland I have computed my driving costs and will not travel one way more than about forty miles without nearby installations or some other reasonable routing.

These are some of the considerations.

Joe

Edited by joe diamond, 21 July 2011 - 12:21 AM.
typo


#31 OFFLINE   Tusin

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 11:54 AM

Maybe I mis worded my post. The installer led my wife to believe the only place they are allowed to install a dish in the middle of the roof. Which I don't understand as I have a decent sized roof. It is not metal and is not a crazy angle (not flat, just slopped enough for snow to fall).

I have had DirecTV in the past (old place a few years back). The Dish was NOT in the center of the roof. And never had issue with no what so ever.

And I may get some flak from some of you. But chargebacks etc.... Are not my concern. The HSP took on the contract for DirecTV. It is part of doing business. I guarentee due to the contact, they have made more money (even with issues/chargebacks/overall challenges) if they did not have the DirecTV contact.

My company is a sub-contracter as well. We run into the same exact thing. But, due to this contract even when we have to eat bills, deal with politics, etc.... It has grown our business ten fold.

Ok so now here is the new info. The HSP just called my wife. And started aruging with her. They refuse to send anyone out for a second opinion etc.... Told her they do not have to follow DTV's rules. Pretty much went off on her. We are not saying we going to "force them to install the dish". But the entire point was, I was supposed to be home when the installer was there. And they agreed to call 30 minutes before (which they did not). So I was not home.

I am off to call DirecTV again..... Blah.

#32 OFFLINE   Tusin

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 12:05 PM

Oh and to touch on your point about driving. I am again only assuming here. But I have a feeling this tech services what we call the "Valley". Which is Palmer/Wasilla. But also out town Eagle River is sometimes considered the "Valley", even though Palmer Wasilla is 30 miles away and Anchorage (the main city) is only 10 miles away.

I work in Anchorage. It takes me 15 minutes to get to work in mild traffic. 25 in moderate. But can take up to 2 hours after the first snow fall;)

#33 OFFLINE   TwoPhases

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 11:31 PM

Installers may think "Installs that may earn me a chargeback, is not my concern. Off to the next one". I guess it works both ways.

#34 OFFLINE   Tusin

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Posted 22 July 2011 - 04:56 PM

Actually not really.... Being a sub-contractor can REALLY stink sometimes. But as long as the positives, out-weigh the negatives then it is good business.

If DirecTV tells the sub-contractor, you MUST do this. Well then the sub-contractor has a decision. Risk the contract being pulled, or do it. It is part of business.

I do wan't to make it clear. I am NOT trying to force them to install it. I am not a (you know what). All I am requesting is a second opinion. Even more so while I am there (like it is was supposed to be in the first place). But the local place is refusing to do ANYTHING. And broke it for me, was when they were very rude and disrespectful to my wife. That just does not fly with me.

So anyways, spoke more in depth with DirecTV directly, and I guess they have corporate looking into it. Because I did file a complaint, not really because "I am not getting what I want". But due to the lack of professionalism and harshness they treated my wife with.

#35 OFFLINE   TwoPhases

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Posted 22 July 2011 - 11:20 PM

That story is all too familiar Tusin. That's how it was with me. Tech "surveyed" my property. 5 minutes later he proclaims no LOS. Too many evergreen trees. Like you I wanted a 2nd opinion and got nowhere with Directv. So I registered here. Did some reading. Asked around a bit. I found several spots around my property that do have LOS. I scored a free Slimline dish from craigslist which took me about 3 days to install, was handed down 2 H20 receivers that were owned. I signed up for an account with no contract. Now when I'm on the phone with Directv's retention department, I clear my throat, they credit my account, I cough, they credit it again, I sneeze, another credit. It's great to be in control.

#36 OFFLINE   1953

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Posted 23 July 2011 - 07:40 AM

The ultimate contact at DirecTV: http://www.directv.c...ssetId=P4960016

#37 OFFLINE   Matt9876

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Posted 23 July 2011 - 12:53 PM

The DirecTV main cluster at 99,101,103 is easy to hit if you have a gap in the trees and do a pole mount in the correct spot, I have installed many a customer that were told they have NLOS.

Sometimes it's not easy but in one case the customer removed twenty trees up the side of a mountain to get DirecTv HD service.:)

#38 OFFLINE   Shades228

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Posted 23 July 2011 - 01:07 PM

The OP is in Alaska it's a whole different ball game up there for line of site issues. They have to use larger dish's to begin with. The installers up there are going to know what's going on. If they've already stated a couple of times that he won't get LoS why would they magically change their opinion? Telling him to contact the office of the president at this point isn't going to help him. It's not like they're going to fly out there to check themself. They're going to call the installer and he's going to say the same thing to them.

#39 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 23 July 2011 - 01:50 PM

The OP is in Alaska it's a whole different ball game up there for line of site issues. They have to use larger dish's to begin with. The installers up there are going to know what's going on. If they've already stated a couple of times that he won't get LoS why would they magically change their opinion? Telling him to contact the office of the president at this point isn't going to help him. It's not like they're going to fly out there to check themself. They're going to call the installer and he's going to say the same thing to them.

Dishpointer shows this for Eagle River, AK:

99 EL 9.2º
103 EL 10.6º
119 EL 16º

This doesn't give much of a "look up" angle to clear trees/mountains, etc.

This is "the ball game" up there, and the larger dishes are merely because they need the gain.

Now if you move to Belingham WA, the EL is 29.9º for 99. ;)
A.K.A VOS

#40 OFFLINE   bigglebowski

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Posted 23 July 2011 - 04:56 PM

Dishpointer shows this for Eagle River, AK:

99 EL 9.2º
103 EL 10.6º
119 EL 16º

This doesn't give much of a "look up" angle to clear trees/mountains, etc.

This is "the ball game" up there, and the larger dishes are merely because they need the gain.

Now if you move to Belingham WA, the EL is 29.9º for 99. ;)


This is even in the southern part of the state, Eagle River AK. For 99 sat youve got to be over 300 feet back to clear a 50 foot object. Compared to 80' to clear 50' in Belingham, WA which looks to be about as far north in conus.




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