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Installer states no LOS. Should I pursue further?


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#41 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 23 July 2011 - 06:30 PM

This is even in the southern part of the state, Eagle River AK. For 99 sat youve got to be over 300 feet back to clear a 50 foot object. Compared to 80' to clear 50' in Belingham, WA which looks to be about as far north in conus.


I wonder what the offset receiving angle on the AK-HI dish is? The standard ones for CONUS are an angle of +22.5 degrees to the dish face. But that can't be the same for the AL-HI dish.

Otherwise the dish face would actually have to point downward toward the ground, or have a negative depression angle in order to actually receive from an elevation of only around +10 degrees above the horizon.

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#42 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 23 July 2011 - 06:36 PM

I wonder what the offset receiving angle on the AK-HI dish is? The standard ones for CONUS are an angle of +22.5 degrees to the dish face. But that can't be the same for the AL-HI dish.

Otherwise the dish face would actually have to point downward toward the ground, or have a negative depression angle in order to actually receive from an elevation of only around +10 degrees above the horizon.

I don't think you have to worry about the offset. EL is EL, and even if the top of the dish overshadowed the bottom [pointing down], then it would have less snow retention. :lol:
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#43 OFFLINE   jackal24

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Posted 23 July 2011 - 10:37 PM

I wonder what the offset receiving angle on the AK-HI dish is? The standard ones for CONUS are an angle of +22.5 degrees to the dish face. But that can't be the same for the AL-HI dish.

Otherwise the dish face would actually have to point downward toward the ground, or have a negative depression angle in order to actually receive from an elevation of only around +10 degrees above the horizon.


Not sure about D*, but the dish that my company has at our housing in western AK for E* does appear to point at the ground.

#44 OFFLINE   Davenlr

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Posted 23 July 2011 - 10:40 PM

Im pretty sure at 9 degrees elevation, any offset dish is going to look like its pointed at the ground. A prime focus dish would not be very much above pointing at the horizon.

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#45 OFFLINE   Tusin

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 03:16 PM

Hey guys. Appreciate all the info. And sorry for not updating.

After my last post (when I called DirecTV to complain how the local company treated my wife), we got a call late last week saying they will be sending out their supervisor this coming Saturday.

To be honest with you all, I am not even sure if I care anymore. Which is huge for me to say as I am a die hard way out of market Football Fan (Tampa Bay Bucs). It has just been a headache.

But there is a gap in the trees. Not a HUGE gap, but not a tiny one either. And according to the Dishpointer Pro app that I purchased (figured why not), 99/101/103 is right in that gap. Will the dish need to be in the perfect location? Yes. But I honestly think it may be doable.

In regard to the dish "pointing down", the answer is pretty much. +10 degrees is not much. Dish sats are higher, and are pointed up. I had dish a few years back at a different place, and we used smaller dishes that DirecTV uses. But had to use two for HD and SD.

A couple last things. Driving around my neighborhood, there are a lot of Sat dishes. Nearly all look like DirecTV 1.3m Dish. But they all seem to be pointing a different direction than what Dishpointer.com and the app tells me where the Sats are. Am I missing something? Also some of the gaps between the trees are MUCH freaking smaller than mine. I will take some pics.

Nearly all Sat TV installs up here on on roofs. My roof is has a pretty slight grade with a high point in the center. So an upside down V (but not nearly that steep). If I were to put the dish on the front side of my roof and off to the side, then according to dishpointer.com I would not have any LOS issues. EXPECT my neighbor's roof (townhouse/duplex) which is about 6" (maybe a bit more) taller than mine. I need to do some more driving around and see what others are doing.....

#46 OFFLINE   joe diamond

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 03:35 PM

Hey guys. Appreciate all the info. And sorry for not updating.

After my last post (when I called DirecTV to complain how the local company treated my wife), we got a call late last week saying they will be sending out their supervisor this coming Saturday.

To be honest with you all, I am not even sure if I care anymore. Which is huge for me to say as I am a die hard way out of market Football Fan (Tampa Bay Bucs). It has just been a headache.

But there is a gap in the trees. Not a HUGE gap, but not a tiny one either. And according to the Dishpointer Pro app that I purchased (figured why not), 99/101/103 is right in that gap. Will the dish need to be in the perfect location? Yes. But I honestly think it may be doable.

In regard to the dish "pointing down", the answer is pretty much. +10 degrees is not much. Dish sats are higher, and are pointed up. I had dish a few years back at a different place, and we used smaller dishes that DirecTV uses. But had to use two for HD and SD.

A couple last things. Driving around my neighborhood, there are a lot of Sat dishes. Nearly all look like DirecTV 1.3m Dish. But they all seem to be pointing a different direction than what Dishpointer.com and the app tells me where the Sats are. Am I missing something? Also some of the gaps between the trees are MUCH freaking smaller than mine. I will take some pics.

Nearly all Sat TV installs up here on on roofs. My roof is has a pretty slight grade with a high point in the center. So an upside down V (but not nearly that steep). If I were to put the dish on the front side of my roof and off to the side, then according to dishpointer.com I would not have any LOS issues. EXPECT my neighbor's roof (townhouse/duplex) which is about 6" (maybe a bit more) taller than mine. I need to do some more driving around and see what others are doing.....


IF your roof "valley" is pointing down the LOS you can construct a pallet like structure that spans the valley and , with some weight, mount the mast on the bridge across the valley you can build.

I have done a few just using a wooden pallet. The wood will not damage a shingle roof but can blow away without weight added.

Good luck,

Joe

Edited by joe diamond, 28 July 2011 - 03:36 PM.
typo


#47 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 03:50 PM

Hey guys. Appreciate all the info. And sorry for not updating.

It isn't too surprising that you might have found a place.
I had a local installer survey my site. He looked/tried every trick he knew and came up with a blank. Good Guy too who'd been doing this for years.
After he tapped out, he asked where I thought it would work. Yep, good LOS, "but" with tree growth, I've needed to move it a couple of times, as that's been easier/cheaper than trimming the trees.
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#48 OFFLINE   Tusin

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 04:25 PM

Yeah we will see. Who ever ends up coming out (even if the "supervisor" ends up being the guy that came out last time, which for some reason I have a feeling it will be). I already plan on giving him a tip even if we cannot get it done, as long as he tries and I feel like he is not just "ditching the job", going to give him a much larger tip if the install goes and works.

Speaking of, I am thinking $20 for putting in a good effort (without installing anything), and $100 for "making it happen". Ya/Nay?

#49 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 05:06 PM

Can't make a comment about the tip, but would also suggest showing him the Dishpoint app "results".
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#50 OFFLINE   joe diamond

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 07:39 PM

Yeah we will see. Who ever ends up coming out (even if the "supervisor" ends up being the guy that came out last time, which for some reason I have a feeling it will be). I already plan on giving him a tip even if we cannot get it done, as long as he tries and I feel like he is not just "ditching the job", going to give him a much larger tip if the install goes and works.

Speaking of, I am thinking $20 for putting in a good effort (without installing anything), and $100 for "making it happen". Ya/Nay?


I think you are going in the right direction with the tip. That 10 degree el is a killer! The tech is going to have to work for it.

Of course here in MD there is a local internet system that uses local cell towers for links...their elevation is less than ten degrees and they make it happen. They also wash out jobs for trees & low buildings. They use a lot of antenna towers.

Good luck...report success!

Joe

#51 OFFLINE   Davenlr

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 07:51 PM

A couple last things. Driving around my neighborhood, there are a lot of Sat dishes. Nearly all look like DirecTV 1.3m Dish. But they all seem to be pointing a different direction than what Dishpointer.com and the app tells me where the Sats are. Am I missing something?.


Magnetic deviation. Its high up there. If dishpointer gives you true degrees, your compass degrees might be way different.

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#52 OFFLINE   wallfishman

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 02:10 PM

IF your roof "valley" is pointing down the LOS you can construct a pallet like structure that spans the valley and , with some weight, mount the mast on the bridge across the valley you can build.

I have done a few just using a wooden pallet. The wood will not damage a shingle roof but can blow away without weight added.

Good luck,

Joe


Sir Ill be back in 10 minutes i gotta run up behind the supermarket and find you a non pen pallet ...

theres an apartment complex around here where they have pallets with sandbags up on the flatroofs for installing dishes . works good

#53 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 02:35 PM

Magnetic deviation.

The term is "magnetic declination"; the difference between True North and magnetic North.

If dishpointer gives you true degrees, your compass degrees might be way different.

dishpointer.com gives both the magnetic and actual compass headings and makes a clear distinction between the two with (magn.) and (true) designations.

ATM, the OP's approximate declination is 18°43' east and moving 18' west/year. If you look at the dishpointer.com numbers, you'll find that they're about 19° apart.

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#54 OFFLINE   joe diamond

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 03:32 PM

Sir Ill be back in 10 minutes i gotta run up behind the supermarket and find you a non pen pallet ...

theres an apartment complex around here where they have pallets with sandbags up on the flatroofs for installing dishes . works good


That is about how it worked!

One of the little details that is not explained in the FREE INSTALLATION ads is the costs for non standard installations. So you have a little old lady who does not have any money for anything and you need a pole or "non pen roof pallet" (good one!). The job looks like crap but is activated.

For awhile I got messages on my answering machine from a local MASTEC hack who had to fix my "field expedient" installations. When we both worked from the same company I fixed his crap so......fair to me!

What it comes to is you have invested in the drive time...you can walk away or do it quick and dirty in the absence of cash to do it right. And no, you can't do it right for FREE.

Craftsmanship is for hobbyists these days.

Joe

#55 OFFLINE   Sam_I_Am

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 09:02 PM

That is about how it worked!

One of the little details that is not explained in the FREE INSTALLATION ads is the costs for non standard installations. So you have a little old lady who does not have any money for anything and you need a pole or "non pen roof pallet" (good one!). The job looks like crap but is activated.

For awhile I got messages on my answering machine from a local MASTEC hack who had to fix my "field expedient" installations. When we both worked from the same company I fixed his crap so......fair to me!

What it comes to is you have invested in the drive time...you can walk away or do it quick and dirty in the absence of cash to do it right. And no, you can't do it right for FREE.

Craftsmanship is for hobbyists these days.

Joe


We have a warranty on our roof and if it leaked who ever drilled the holes would be on the hook for it. So Smart Circle picked up the tab for a under eave mount. ;)

#56 OFFLINE   joe diamond

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 11:51 PM

We have a warranty on our roof and if it leaked who ever drilled the holes would be on the hook for it. So Smart Circle picked up the tab for a under eave mount. ;)


Exactly,

But the dudes sent out in the past do not understand, and have never been told that if they **** up a building in any way...they are responsible for fixing it.
Their mind is focused on keeping on schedule.....Wish I had a vid of a Directv van operated by MASTEC running through Church Creek, MD years ago. Sixty MPH easy!...He was late...so the school zone was not an issue.

The FREE basic installation is not everything. As money shrinks guess who takes up the slack?

Glad it worked for you.

Joe

#57 OFFLINE   Tusin

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 11:38 AM

hahah ya'll crack me up. Still waiting on the DirecTV installer (it is only 9:30am in Alaska right now).

I did drive around a little bit this morning and was going to take some pictures of other installs, but then I got the "creepy man" feeling. As in, would not be surprised if someone calls the cops, cause I am driving around taking pictures of their Dishes lol!

I did snap one, which is a pretty good example what I see a LOT of around here. i.e. based on what I have read, I do not see how on gods green earth these dishes get a signal, surrounded by trees. And yes, even though not shown, trees are IN FRONT of that dish as well. I am not nearly as bad as the dish in the pic. Also the closest tree to me, is a good 50'+ away.

Pulled out some cash for tip, have a credit card if they need to do anything funky. Wish me luck:)

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#58 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 11:40 AM

The LNB has a "bounce angle" of about 25º, so the signal "to the dish" comes in higher than you'd think.
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#59 OFFLINE   Tusin

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 11:49 AM

Ok, well that "should" mean I am eve more in the clear.

#60 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 12:13 PM

Ok, well that "should" mean I am eve more in the clear.

:lol: The SATs are still in the same place, so this only is "what the dish looks like". :lol:
If a SAT is only 10º above the horizon, and the dish has a 25º "bounce angle", then the reflector may be pointing slightly [2.5º] down.
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