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Installer states no LOS. Should I pursue further?


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#51 OFFLINE   Davenlr

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 07:51 PM

A couple last things. Driving around my neighborhood, there are a lot of Sat dishes. Nearly all look like DirecTV 1.3m Dish. But they all seem to be pointing a different direction than what Dishpointer.com and the app tells me where the Sats are. Am I missing something?.


Magnetic deviation. Its high up there. If dishpointer gives you true degrees, your compass degrees might be way different.

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#52 OFFLINE   wallfishman

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 02:10 PM

IF your roof "valley" is pointing down the LOS you can construct a pallet like structure that spans the valley and , with some weight, mount the mast on the bridge across the valley you can build.

I have done a few just using a wooden pallet. The wood will not damage a shingle roof but can blow away without weight added.

Good luck,

Joe


Sir Ill be back in 10 minutes i gotta run up behind the supermarket and find you a non pen pallet ...

theres an apartment complex around here where they have pallets with sandbags up on the flatroofs for installing dishes . works good

#53 ONLINE   harsh

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 02:35 PM

Magnetic deviation.

The term is "magnetic declination"; the difference between True North and magnetic North.

If dishpointer gives you true degrees, your compass degrees might be way different.

dishpointer.com gives both the magnetic and actual compass headings and makes a clear distinction between the two with (magn.) and (true) designations.

ATM, the OP's approximate declination is 18°43' east and moving 18' west/year. If you look at the dishpointer.com numbers, you'll find that they're about 19° apart.

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#54 OFFLINE   joe diamond

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 03:32 PM

Sir Ill be back in 10 minutes i gotta run up behind the supermarket and find you a non pen pallet ...

theres an apartment complex around here where they have pallets with sandbags up on the flatroofs for installing dishes . works good


That is about how it worked!

One of the little details that is not explained in the FREE INSTALLATION ads is the costs for non standard installations. So you have a little old lady who does not have any money for anything and you need a pole or "non pen roof pallet" (good one!). The job looks like crap but is activated.

For awhile I got messages on my answering machine from a local MASTEC hack who had to fix my "field expedient" installations. When we both worked from the same company I fixed his crap so......fair to me!

What it comes to is you have invested in the drive time...you can walk away or do it quick and dirty in the absence of cash to do it right. And no, you can't do it right for FREE.

Craftsmanship is for hobbyists these days.

Joe

#55 OFFLINE   Sam_I_Am

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 09:02 PM

That is about how it worked!

One of the little details that is not explained in the FREE INSTALLATION ads is the costs for non standard installations. So you have a little old lady who does not have any money for anything and you need a pole or "non pen roof pallet" (good one!). The job looks like crap but is activated.

For awhile I got messages on my answering machine from a local MASTEC hack who had to fix my "field expedient" installations. When we both worked from the same company I fixed his crap so......fair to me!

What it comes to is you have invested in the drive time...you can walk away or do it quick and dirty in the absence of cash to do it right. And no, you can't do it right for FREE.

Craftsmanship is for hobbyists these days.

Joe


We have a warranty on our roof and if it leaked who ever drilled the holes would be on the hook for it. So Smart Circle picked up the tab for a under eave mount. ;)

#56 OFFLINE   joe diamond

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 11:51 PM

We have a warranty on our roof and if it leaked who ever drilled the holes would be on the hook for it. So Smart Circle picked up the tab for a under eave mount. ;)


Exactly,

But the dudes sent out in the past do not understand, and have never been told that if they **** up a building in any way...they are responsible for fixing it.
Their mind is focused on keeping on schedule.....Wish I had a vid of a Directv van operated by MASTEC running through Church Creek, MD years ago. Sixty MPH easy!...He was late...so the school zone was not an issue.

The FREE basic installation is not everything. As money shrinks guess who takes up the slack?

Glad it worked for you.

Joe

#57 OFFLINE   Tusin

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 11:38 AM

hahah ya'll crack me up. Still waiting on the DirecTV installer (it is only 9:30am in Alaska right now).

I did drive around a little bit this morning and was going to take some pictures of other installs, but then I got the "creepy man" feeling. As in, would not be surprised if someone calls the cops, cause I am driving around taking pictures of their Dishes lol!

I did snap one, which is a pretty good example what I see a LOT of around here. i.e. based on what I have read, I do not see how on gods green earth these dishes get a signal, surrounded by trees. And yes, even though not shown, trees are IN FRONT of that dish as well. I am not nearly as bad as the dish in the pic. Also the closest tree to me, is a good 50'+ away.

Pulled out some cash for tip, have a credit card if they need to do anything funky. Wish me luck:)

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#58 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 11:40 AM

The LNB has a "bounce angle" of about 25º, so the signal "to the dish" comes in higher than you'd think.
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#59 OFFLINE   Tusin

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 11:49 AM

Ok, well that "should" mean I am eve more in the clear.

#60 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 12:13 PM

Ok, well that "should" mean I am eve more in the clear.

:lol: The SATs are still in the same place, so this only is "what the dish looks like". :lol:
If a SAT is only 10º above the horizon, and the dish has a 25º "bounce angle", then the reflector may be pointing slightly [2.5º] down.
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#61 OFFLINE   AntAltMike

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 12:22 PM

Are you capable of testing reception spots yourself? You can buy an 18" dish and a really old receiver on eBay for maybe ten or 20 dollars and take a TV and extension cord around your property and find an area where the signal strength meter gets you up to whatever is normal for your region. You probably should "calibrate" this test rig by peaking the dish in a parking lot somewhere, running off your car inverter.

Once you find a spot on your property where you can match the signal strength you measured in the parking lot, you should then start moving the dish laterally to see just how wide your reception window is, and to be able to advise an installer where the middle of it is.

Edited by AntAltMike, 30 July 2011 - 03:57 PM.


#62 OFFLINE   Tusin

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 12:41 PM

Just got a call from the installer. Same guy they sent out the first time. Seriously WTF. They say he is the only one that services my area. IDK, my "area" is 10 miles away from the main City (Anchorage).

One the plus side, he is a very nice guy. And did say he is more than willing to go over ideas that I have. Which is cool, I guess. Hopefully we are one of his last stops of the day (will be here at Noon, so in about a hour and a half). So he is not as rushed as the first time.

#63 OFFLINE   Tusin

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 12:43 PM

Are you capable of testing reception spots yourself? You can buy an 18" dish and a really old receiver on eBay for maybe ten or 20 dollars and take a TV and extension cord around your property and find an area where the signal strength meter gets you up to whatever is normal for your region. You probably should "calubrate" this test rig by peaking the dish in a parking lot somewhere, running off your car inverter.

Once you find a spot on your property where you can match the signal strength you measured in the parking lot, you should then start moving the dish laterally to see just how wide your reception window is, and to be able to advise an installer where the middle of it is.


I have actually thought about that. I have no doubts that I could install a system myself. Issue being, is that I am stuck to craigslist to buy at least the dish. Shipping from the lower 48 to Alaska private party (i.e. Fedex/UPS/USPS) would be crazy expensive.

#64 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 01:25 PM

Just got a call from the installer. Same guy they sent out the first time. Seriously WTF. They say he is the only one that services my area. IDK, my "area" is 10 miles away from the main City (Anchorage).

One the plus side, he is a very nice guy. And did say he is more than willing to go over ideas that I have. Which is cool, I guess. Hopefully we are one of his last stops of the day (will be here at Noon, so in about a hour and a half). So he is not as rushed as the first time.

And according to the Dishpointer Pro app that I purchased


I think showing him what this shows will help a bunch. I doubt he's aware of what it shows.
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#65 OFFLINE   TwoPhases

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 02:31 PM

Good luck!

#66 OFFLINE   Tusin

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 03:07 PM

Ok so no go.... Still not 100% sold on the tech or the LOS issue. But I guess more sold on it....

So a little more clarification on why he is the only one. Our local install place, does not do installs. They ONLY use Sub-Contractors. Which is what he is. So DirecTV uses a Subcontractor, and then that Subcontractor uses a Subcontractor.

We got up on the roof together. And there is a tree 160' away (across the street) that is giving the issues. He told me that up here we need to see 9/9.5/10 degrees elevation for the sats. 10 is fine, 9.5 is fine, but at about 9.2 the top of the tree is in the way.

He also said the Dispointer App for the Iphone is inaccurate. And according to the Dishpointer all while I am on the roof, this tree (or any trees) are an issue.

He explained to me about this point system that they are graded on. And by doing an install that could have issues, he could be docked points and get less jobs. Which I appreciate. If that is your way of life, you need jobs to make money.

But then he told me that if I still wanted to pursue it, to call another company, and they would probably do the install. Mainly because they are known for just "wanting to get paid".

But this is why I couldn't get a second opinion. Because the local contractor, doesn't contract with anyone else in my "area".

So I am THINKING of calling this other place (they are only open M-F). At least to try a second opinion. On their web-site they do re-sell DirecTV, just not sure how that would work out. As in are they able to just take the Work Order from DirecTV?

Opinions? Even if that opinion is, stick with cable. I will take that ;)

#67 OFFLINE   Sam_I_Am

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 03:17 PM

How tight are with the people across the street? Is it possible to take the problem tree down or maybe just 'top' it. Where there's a will there's away, it just costs money.

#68 OFFLINE   Tusin

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 03:21 PM

I don't even know them. The tree is across the main road and 160' away. And pretty freaking tall. But yeah, if I could top it, we would be jamming:)

#69 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 03:35 PM

I don't even know them. The tree is across the main road and 160' away. And pretty freaking tall. But yeah, if I could top it, we would be jamming:)

"The tree" sounds like you have the option to move the dish location such that "the tree" isn't in the way.
I've got more than "one tree" in the way here:

http://www.dbstalk.c...=1&d=1312061610

And what I had to do was use a pole mount about 50' from the house that you can't see in the picture, marked.

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#70 OFFLINE   Tusin

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 05:27 PM

Well to miss that tree, then other tress get in the way. i.e. we have to shoot through a gap (the gap I was talking about earlier) in back yard. But in that gap, is where the tree is. I never really took that tree into account, as it is 160' + away etc....

The main thing that I am the most irritated about. Is that I still never got what I asked for. i.e. a second opinion. I got a second opinion, but from the same tech. It is like going to a Doctor, getting diagnosed with something. And going back to the same doctor for a second opinion. Doesn't make sense.

What is your feeling on the tech saying that the Dishpointer app on the Iphone is inaccurate?

#71 ONLINE   eakes

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 05:28 PM

At a distance of 160 ft the difference between 9.2 and 10 degrees elevation is less than 4 ft. If an actual measurement of elevation to top of the tree is 9.2, then raising the dish four feet above the height of the measurement point would provide clearance above the tree (at least until the tree grew 4 ft taller).

Another approach would be to move farther away from the tree. Horizontal distance added between the dish and obstruction point means less height required at the antenna to clear the obstruction. If your back yard is clear and you have ample property, a pole mount somewhere in the yard may provide sufficient clearance.

#72 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 07:45 PM

What is your feeling on the tech saying that the Dishpointer app on the Iphone is inaccurate?

I would question it [the statement] myself. Down here, Dishpointer site is fairly accurate, but I haven't used the app.
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#73 OFFLINE   RobertE

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 08:12 PM

What is your feeling on the tech saying that the Dishpointer app on the Iphone is inaccurate?


I would question it [the statement] myself. Down here, Dishpointer site is fairly accurate, but I haven't used the app.


Yes and no.

Accuracy varies by phone, how it's held and how well the magnatometers (I think thats whats in the phone, if not, lets just call them the magic bits) are calibrated for that phone. While it should be pretty good for 99% of cases out there, when it comes down to threading that needle, you need something that is dead on. A real compass and inclinometer is required.
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#74 OFFLINE   Tusin

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 10:16 PM

Well guys I think I may let it die (for now). My main reason was for football (die hard fan). But the benefits of saving money over cable was pretty high up there too.

With that being I just found out that DirecTV this year is selling the Sunday Ticket "To-Go" to customers that cannot get DirecTV (I know they did a test last year in NY). So it looks like that is what I will be doing. Even though freaking expensive, the option is there.

#75 OFFLINE   Steve

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Posted 31 July 2011 - 07:07 AM

We got up on the roof together. And there is a tree 160' away (across the street) that is giving the issues. He told me that up here we need to see 9/9.5/10 degrees elevation for the sats. 10 is fine, 9.5 is fine, but at about 9.2 the top of the tree is in the way.

Did you talk to the installer about locating the dish elsewhere on your property, other than the roof?
/steve




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