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Getting Whole Home Setup Today - Any Tips?


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26 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   Insomniac2k

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Posted 22 July 2011 - 08:02 AM

I am getting the whole home upgrade today. I currently have a HR20-700 and DirecTivo. They are going to replace the DirecTivo with a new HD Receiver. (The TV isn't HD, but I know at a minimum the current HR20-700 I have has the outputs needed to connect to that TV.)

The representative initially started talking about a new dish, but when I asked she realized I already had the HD dish and was all set there. I assume they will be setting up DECA in the house?

Any tips or ideas of what I should expect the installer to have to do? Thanks!

Also--Does anyone know if I can still watch recordings off the old DirecTivo after it is disconnected?

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#2 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 22 July 2011 - 08:07 AM

I am getting the whole home upgrade today. I currently have a HR20-700 and DirecTivo. They are going to replace the DirecTivo with a new HD Receiver. (The TV isn't HD, but I know at a minimum the current HR20-700 I have has the outputs needed to connect to that TV.)

The representative initially started talking about a new dish, but when I asked she realized I already had the HD dish and was all set there. I assume they will be setting up DECA in the house?

Any tips or ideas of what I should expect the installer to have to do? Thanks!

If you currently have a Tivo, then they'll need to change the LNB [minimum] to SWiM, then redo your cabling for the single wire system.
The HR20 will get a DECA for networking and the receiver may have one too [may be internal depending on model].
Next make sure that you get a Cinema connection [kit] installed if you want internet access.
A.K.A VOS

#3 OFFLINE   Insomniac2k

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Posted 22 July 2011 - 08:25 AM

If you currently have a Tivo, then they'll need to change the LNB [minimum] to SWiM, then redo your cabling for the single wire system.
The HR20 will get a DECA for networking and the receiver may have one too [may be internal depending on model].
Next make sure that you get a Cinema connection [kit] installed if you want internet access.


So they will need to do that swap to the LNB on the current Dish (It's the 5-LNB DISH)? I have 2 cables to each location, it may make sense to just leave them that way and use only one?

I don't think they said anything about the Cinema Connection Kit. They asked me if I had Internet and wanted that connected and said yes. I have DSL connected to a router right now. My HR20-700 can be connected to bridged router (802.11g is probably not fast enough to stream full HD), but it runs so slow with an Internet connection I unplugged it.

Edited by Insomniac2k, 22 July 2011 - 08:30 AM.


#4 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 22 July 2011 - 08:30 AM

So they will need to do that swap to the LNB on the current DISH (It's the 5-LNB DISH)? I have 2 cables to each location, it may make sense to just leave them that way and use only one?

I don't think they said anything about the Cinema Connection Kit. They asked me if I had Internet and wanted that connected and said yes. I have DSL connected to a router right now. My HR20-700 can be connected to bridged router (802.11g is probably not fast enough to stream full HD), but it runs so slow with an Internet connection I unplugged it.

You will need to be converted to SWiM, for the DECA to work, so new LNB.
If you said "yes" to internet, then you will/should get the CCK.
The wireless isn't going to be streaming HD between receivers, so this would only be for DirecTV2PC if you used that to watch on your PC. Downloading OnDemand programs aren't streamed, so it should work fine.
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#5 OFFLINE   Insomniac2k

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Posted 22 July 2011 - 08:43 AM

You will need to be converted to SWiM, for the DECA to work, so new LNB.
If you said "yes" to internet, then you will/should get the CCK.
The wireless isn't going to be streaming HD between receivers, so this would only be for DirecTV2PC if you used that to watch on your PC. Downloading OnDemand programs aren't streamed, so it should work fine.


I'm not sure how I missed the DirecTV2PC thing (I recall something requiring Intel ViiV before), but that is pretty cool. I have a Slingbox hooked up, so that is possibly why I didn't seek that product out.

#6 OFFLINE   Insomniac2k

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Posted 22 July 2011 - 03:49 PM

They just arrived. He doesn't think a SWiM is necessary. I have 5 Slimline 5 LNB from what I saw on the diagnostic screen he checked. I think the SWM (no 'i') in the menu was grayed out. Said they were going to enable MRV by connecting a wireless box to the downstairs receiver (the new HR24) and one to the router connected to my DSL modem.

I guess we'll see what happens.

Edit/Update: They are doing a SWM now after checking with his boss or DirecTV and fixing the ground on my current Dish.

Edited by Insomniac2k, 22 July 2011 - 04:02 PM.


#7 OFFLINE   jdspencer

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Posted 22 July 2011 - 06:14 PM

...
Edit/Update: They are doing a SWM now after checking with his boss or DirecTV and fixing the ground on my current Dish.

So another installer got some in-field training. :lol:
DirecTV since '96, Waivers for ABC, CBS, NBC, & Fox, HR23-700 & HR24-500/AM21, using ethernet based MRV.

#8 OFFLINE   Insomniac2k

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Posted 22 July 2011 - 06:30 PM

So another installer got some in-field training. :lol:


He did the SWM swap, but has now gone out twice to do something. I'm not sure what, but it seems like it's not something simple. Thankfully, there is now shade on that side of the house and some wind blowing.

#9 OFFLINE   dsw2112

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Posted 22 July 2011 - 10:09 PM

Edit/Update: They are doing a SWM now after checking with his boss or DirecTV and fixing the ground on my current Dish.


So another installer got some in-field training. :lol:


Looks that way :nono2:

I'm curious to hear how this ended for the OP. It certainly didn't start very well...
SL3-Slimline to SWM16 - DECA
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#10 OFFLINE   Insomniac2k

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Posted 23 July 2011 - 11:11 AM

As far as I can tell, it all appears to be working. The technician was polite and made sure everything was settled. He ended up replacing the Dish because he said when he hooked up the second HD-DVR it just wasn't getting a good signal. He put in the new Dish and it all seemed to work. He said he was new to DirecTV (used to work for DISH) and he did make a mistake with my HR-20 by hooking up some extra device (needed for a non -700 model).

I forgot to ask him what would happen if I unplugged the extra box that is now connected to the HR20. Just so I know if that were ever to be a problem, what the problem would look like. I don't know if he'd know though.

The connection kit is essentially a wireless bridge and I guess all the traffic goes through the coax between the DVRs. I will be playing around with the Whole Home service this weekend.

#11 OFFLINE   Insomniac2k

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Posted 20 August 2011 - 05:09 PM

My network has had issues with file shares since getting the new setup and I wonder if something is wrong. The installer initially thought I had an HR20-100 when I had an HR20-700. I tried to read some threads and Google the DECA adapter to see if it is connected right. I didn't see anything about an external box that requires power. The black box is plugged into the wall. So it's basically this:

2 lines from the dish.
- Line 1 into black box, black box plugged into power outlet.
- Line 2 into DECA Adapter, Coax and Network into HR20-700.

Does anyone know what the black box is and why I need it? If I unplug it, the signal does go out on the HR20, so it does seem to do something. (Kind of a pain because I've run out of powered outlets on my UPS, so part of the purpose in having the DVR hooked up to it is ruined since the signal will go out during a quick outage.)

Thanks for your help guys!

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Edited by Insomniac2k, 20 August 2011 - 05:27 PM.


#12 OFFLINE   RobertE

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Posted 20 August 2011 - 05:50 PM

That black box is the power inserter that powers the dish. Make note of 2 things. 1) Look at where the cable is connected to it, note that it says power to SWM. 2) at the other end of the power plug, look at the white lable on it, follow what it says.
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#13 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 20 August 2011 - 06:52 PM

Humm ...

With a SWiMLNB and MRV there should be only one coax line coming from the dish to a main green label SWiM splitter. From there based on the photo and description of your setup earlier in this thread, it should be three lines or possibly four with the wired type CCK (actually the wireless-CCK may also be setup in a wired fashion as well) proceeding from the splitter to the two receivers, the PI (your "black box"), and maybe a CCK.

The PI should have a 75 ohm terminating cap on its opposite unused port labeled "Signal to IRD" in the photo.

EDIT: Make sure any unused ports on the main splitter are terminated with 75 ohm caps as well.

Edited by HoTat2, 20 August 2011 - 06:58 PM.


#14 OFFLINE   Insomniac2k

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Posted 20 August 2011 - 09:54 PM

Humm ...

With a SWiMLNB and MRV there should be only one coax line coming from the dish to a main green label SWiM splitter. From there based on the photo and description of your setup earlier in this thread, it should be three lines or possibly four with the wired type CCK (actually the wireless-CCK may also be setup in a wired fashion as well) proceeding from the splitter to the two receivers, the PI (your "black box"), and maybe a CCK.

The PI should have a 75 ohm terminating cap on its opposite unused port labeled "Signal to IRD" in the photo.

EDIT: Make sure any unused ports on the main splitter are terminated with 75 ohm caps as well.


I am going to have to have someone look around for all that. I assume that the splitter is outside. We had 4 lines run straight into the house from the original dish. 2 upstairs and 2 downstairs and that has not changed.

I also got the wireless DCCK. And reading the manual, I think that is connected wrong. It is connected to an HR24 and used ethernet. Should just be coax according to the manual.

Does MRV rely on ethernet at all?

I'm not sure where to get the cap. I don't think the installer left anything behind besides a manual for the DCCK.

(On a side note, how can I have MRV, but take the DVRs off my network? I want to eliminate the DVRs as a possible source of network issues.)

#15 OFFLINE   bobnielsen

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Posted 20 August 2011 - 10:16 PM

MRV does not rely on ethernet (except for the connection between the DECA adapter and earlier receiver models (not the HR24). I guess one could connect the HR24 to a DECA or WCCK via ethernet, but that doesn't make sense. With WHDVR, MRV should only go between the receivers over coax and will not be seen by your network (or slow down network traffic). Directv2PC, Media Share and On Demand will go over your network via the WCCK.

#16 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 20 August 2011 - 11:25 PM

I guess one could connect the HR24 to a DECA or WCCK via ethernet, but that doesn't make sense.

Not only does it not make "sense", but it also doesn't work.
Once the HR24 has an ethernet connection, it disables its internal DECA and you can't connect a white DECA, since the HR24 won't power it.
The WCCK, does have a pass through function which allows for the HR24's internal DECA to work with a WCCK also being connected in the pass through mode, but still no ethernet connection to the HR24.
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#17 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 21 August 2011 - 01:50 AM

I am going to have to have someone look around for all that. I assume that the splitter is outside. We had 4 lines run straight into the house from the original dish. 2 upstairs and 2 downstairs and that has not changed. ...


Yes, and the installer should have used three of those existing lines then (since you have the W-CCK) for runs to the two receivers and PI.

... I also got the wireless DCCK. And reading the manual, I think that is connected wrong. It is connected to an HR24 and used ethernet. Should just be coax according to the manual.


As VOS points out, there should be no ethernet connection to the HR24 in your setup. The W-CCK should be hooked up somewhere along the HR24's satellite coax run via it's coax pass-thru option.

.. Does MRV rely on ethernet at all?


Technically, depending on one's setup, MRV can rely on ethernet, DECA, or portions of both. However in your case and the way DIRECTV prefers and officially supports it, MRV only relies upon the DECA coax network except when MRV data needs to flow out of this "DECA cloud" through the CCK onto the home ethernet network for the DIRECTV2PC app.

... I'm not sure where to get the cap. I don't think the installer left anything behind besides a manual for the DCCK.


Try places like Radio Shack, many hardware stores, and of course an online search for 75 ohm terminator caps will quickly find them for order.

I get mine from Home Depot. :)

... (On a side note, how can I have MRV, but take the DVRs off my network? I want to eliminate the DVRs as a possible source of network issues.)


You can't, since the DVR acts as both MRV server and/or client, whereas the STB receiver is only a client.

An MRV session always requires a server and a client.

Edited by HoTat2, 21 August 2011 - 01:55 AM.


#18 OFFLINE   wallfishman

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Posted 21 August 2011 - 07:30 AM

Yes, and the installer should have used three of those existing lines then (since you have the W-CCK) for runs to the two receivers and PI.



As VOS points out, there should be no ethernet connection to the HR24 in your setup. The W-CCK should be hooked up somewhere along the HR24's satellite coax run via it's coax pass-thru option.



Technically, depending on one's setup, MRV can rely on ethernet, DECA, or portions of both. However in your case and the way DIRECTV prefers and officially supports it, MRV only relies upon the DECA coax network except when MRV data needs to flow out of this "DECA cloud" through the CCK onto the home ethernet network for the DIRECTV2PC app.



Try places like Radio Shack, many hardware stores, and of course an online search for 75 ohm terminator caps will quickly find them for order.

I get mine from Home Depot. :)



You can't, since the DVR acts as both MRV server and/or client, whereas the STB receiver is only a client.

An MRV session always requires a server and a client.


Id bet the installer put the SWM splitter right at the dish. 1 line to bb deca, 1 to power inserter, and 1 to each receiver. you tone out 1 line that goes to power inserter and put that on red port and hook the other three up to splitter. at receivers theres 2 lines already there. 1 to bb deca, 1 to receiver, at other receiver 1 to power inserter and 1 to receiver, redo sat setup, and sign here. unfortunately when the rubber hits the road this was a 35 dollar job. They dont have time to start removing old wiring or changing the way the whole house is setup for that number.

Edited by wallfishman, 21 August 2011 - 07:35 AM.


#19 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 21 August 2011 - 08:38 AM

Id bet the installer put the SWM splitter right at the dish. 1 line to bb deca, 1 to power inserter, and 1 to each receiver. you tone out 1 line that goes to power inserter and put that on red port and hook the other three up to splitter. at receivers theres 2 lines already there. 1 to bb deca, 1 to receiver, at other receiver 1 to power inserter and 1 to receiver, redo sat setup, and sign here. unfortunately when the rubber hits the road this was a 35 dollar job. They dont have time to start removing old wiring or changing the way the whole house is setup for that number.


Since the OP said he has a "wireless CCK" placed in the cable run to the HR24 only three of the previously installed cables should be in use.

Though it is questionable as to whether the W-CCK is connected correctly since he mentions an "ethernet" connection to the HR24 from it.

#20 OFFLINE   RobertE

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Posted 21 August 2011 - 08:53 AM

Since the OP said he has a "wireless CCK" placed in the cable run to the HR24 only three of the previously installed cables should be in use.

Though it is questionable as to whether the W-CCK is connected correctly since he mentions an "ethernet" connection to the HR24 from it.


It can work as the OP describes. Not the most elegant solution though. I've been a similar config for nearly a year.

RG6 line in->CCK-W->HR21-700
CCK-W->HR21-700 ethernet
CCK-W wireless to home network.

In my case the CCK-W is serving dual purpose. Its acting as a receiver deca for the HR21, and it's acting as a wireless bridge connecting the deca network to the outside world.

The OP should remove the ethernet jumper from his HR24 and the CCK-W, and reboot the box to restore the internal deca. That may help with his dropouts.
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