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Be thankful that we are retaining channels, rather than losing them

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77 replies to this topic

#26 OFFLINE   Hutchinshouse

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 06:00 PM

Active:
Causes judders due to half the frame rate...I never have judder.
Causes nausea...in some people.
Causes screen image to be darker.....Adjusting tv settings makes this a non factor.
Glasses cost far too much...$50 is too much?
Have to charge batteries...Or replace them just like remotes.
Cannot fully lay on the couch (sofa) and watch active 3D (glasses must remain horizontal for 3D effect)...People lay sideways and watch movies? I'd say most kick back.


Yeah, I know the bullets are marginal at best. My point, both technologies have their issues. I'm still not fully sold on 3D. All I know is what I've seen. I've seen active, passive and glasses free 3D. Passive did not make me sick, the other two did. When watching passive on a 55" from 8', at no point did I think the video was soft. To me, active has more disadvantages than passive. Bottom-line, in a few years both will be a discontinued technology. On a side note, LG released info on their nano TV today. This passive TV will be the best HDTV of 2011. Mark my words. I will own this TV. :D

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#27 OFFLINE   Jeremy W

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 06:04 PM

I'm still not fully sold on 3D.

You're not alone there.

#28 OFFLINE   Satelliteracer

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 12:05 AM

If I cared that much about 3D, I would have stuck with DirecTV.


I get it, but I suspect if D* did this there would be a chorus of howling from some....wait, I don't suspect it...I know it.:(
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#29 OFFLINE   BattleScott

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 05:39 AM

I get it, but I suspect if D* did this there would be a chorus of howling from some....wait, I don't suspect it...I know it.:(



If DirecTV were to drop it, then I'm sure you're right that they would face some undue criticism (just as they are receiving some undue praise at the moment). But, I think the "howling" would be a little more justified (at least for some) as they would be removing an HD channel from the entire HD subscriber base and therefore devaluing the service a little for those that were using it. .

AT&T chose to offer it as a unique service at a premium fee. Only those who subscribed to it are losing it AND they will no longer be charged for it so there is really no true loss of value other than it just becomes another channel not carried.

Granted we're talking about a 3D channel that only a small fraction of the subscribers can even access, but the principal still applies
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#30 OFFLINE   FHSPSU67

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 06:52 AM

Yuck...passive? It ain't worth it when you get half the resolution in return. Samsung or Panasonic plasma with active 3D for the win.

Truer words have never been spoken, at least concerning 3D

Active:
Causes judders due to half the frame rate...I never have judder.Neither do I
Causes nausea...in some people.Not my wife or I. My neighbor who has a serious eye disease (forget which one)loves our 3D
Causes screen image to be darker.....Adjusting tv settings makes this a non factor.What sigma said, and professional calibration removes it from consideration
Glasses cost far too much...$50 is too much?True, but a one-time expense
Have to charge batteries...Or replace them just like remotes.Yep, and I bought a 100 @$.20 per from Amzon, and I've used a total of 5-6 in the ten months I've owned my Panny 3D
Cannot fully lay on the couch (sofa) and watch active 3D (glasses must remain horizontal for 3D effect)...People lay sideways and watch movies? I'd say most kick back.Vertical/Horizontal viewing angle has no effect whatsoever on my Panny 3D


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#31 OFFLINE   Hutchinshouse

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 08:13 AM

I get it, but I suspect if D* did this there would be a chorus of howling from some....wait, I don't suspect it...I know it.:(


By "some" do you mean all 6 customers with 3D? :lol: jk

#32 OFFLINE   Hutchinshouse

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 08:46 AM

Truer words have never been spoken, at least concerning 3D


Congrats, you both have a dying technology you’re happy with. :lol: I’ll soon own a dying technology too. :lol:

Have you seen passive 3D in person on a calibrated TV?

There’s more to Passive 3D than simply “half the resolution”. The image is simply broken into two groups. One eye sees lines 1,3,5,7 etc. The other eye sees lines 2,4,6,8 etc. So when your brain assembles the image you’re still seeing every line in the picture.

Quote from PC World: “your brain should be perceiving a 1080p image when it puts the two together.” Link

All I know, I've seen all three 3D technologies. Passive did not look soft to me. Maybe it’s along the same lines as active’s refresh rate. Some say they see judders, crosstalk and/or flicker issue with active. Some say they don’t. For me, passive looked great on a 55” from 8’. Zero flicker, zero crosstalk, zero judders. There’s far more to overall picture quality than simply lines of resolution.

#33 OFFLINE   FHSPSU67

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 09:30 AM

Congrats, you both have a dying technology you’re happy with. :lol: I’ll soon own a dying technology too. :lol:

Have you seen passive 3D in person on a calibrated TV?

There’s more to Passive 3D than simply “half the resolution”. The image is simply broken into two groups. One eye sees lines 1,3,5,7 etc. The other eye sees lines 2,4,6,8 etc. So when your brain assembles the image you’re still seeing every line in the picture.

Quote from PC World: “your brain should be perceiving a 1080p image when it puts the two together.” Link

All I know, I've seen all three 3D technologies. Passive did not look soft to me. Maybe it’s along the same lines as active’s refresh rate. Some say they see judders, crosstalk and/or flicker issue with active. Some say they don’t. For me, passive looked great on a 55” from 8’. Zero flicker, zero crosstalk, zero judders. There’s far more to overall picture quality than simply lines of resolution.

How many "sweet" spots did the passive 3D that you saw provide? I've only read about passive 3D, and everything I've read has indicated 5-7 sweet spots.
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#34 OFFLINE   Jeremy W

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 09:45 AM

I get it, but I suspect if D* did this there would be a chorus of howling from some....wait, I don't suspect it...I know it.:(

And I suspect/know there would be a chorus of support from some, because there always is.

#35 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 09:47 AM

But, I think the "howling" would be a little more justified (at least for some) as they would be removing an HD channel from the entire HD subscriber base and therefore devaluing the service a little for those that were using it. .

While the channel is available to all, only a relative few have a chance at viewing it as intended.

While sporting events are cool in 3D, sporting events as a class of programming aren't particularly durable when it comes to watching them after the fact or, as the ESPN 3D schedule is dominated, in rerun after rerun.
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#36 OFFLINE   Stuart Sweet

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 09:48 AM

It seems to me this is turning into a discussion of 3D. Let's stay to the original topic or start a new one that is appropriately named. Thanks.
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#37 OFFLINE   Jeremy W

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 09:53 AM

It seems to me this is turning into a discussion of 3D. Let's stay to the original topic or start a new one that is appropriately named. Thanks.

What is the original topic, really? It's just a thinly veiled attempt at keeping this in the "DirecTV Programming" forum, where it ultimately doesn't belong because it has nothing to do with DirecTV in the first place.

#38 OFFLINE   SPACEMAKER

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 09:56 AM

What is the original topic, really? It's just a thinly veiled attempt at keeping this in the "DirecTV Programming" forum, where it ultimately doesn't belong because it has nothing to do with DirecTV in the first place.


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#39 OFFLINE   BattleScott

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 10:40 AM

While the channel is available to all, only a relative few have a chance at viewing it as intended.

While sporting events are cool in 3D, sporting events as a class of programming aren't particularly durable when it comes to watching them after the fact or, as the ESPN 3D schedule is dominated, in rerun after rerun.


That's what I said:

Granted we're talking about a 3D channel that only a small fraction of the subscribers can even access, but the principal still applies


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#40 OFFLINE   Hoosier205

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 10:58 AM

The point is, DirecTV retains numerous channels each year while dropping very few. The grass is greener right where we are in this case.
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#41 OFFLINE   maartena

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 11:04 AM

Dude. You have to go way back there to find an example?


Although it isn't a channel I would miss, he does have a valid point. DirecTV, just like ANY OTHER provider, has dropped channels. Some have been dropped and then regained (such as Versus), others have been dropped permanently (such as G4).

It was less then a year ago by the way, the loss of G4.
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#42 OFFLINE   BattleScott

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 11:12 AM

The point is, DirecTV retains numerous channels each year while dropping very few. The grass is greener right where we are in this case.


I think a statement like that needs some supporting data.
To my knowledge, ESPN3D is the first channel AT&T has permanently dropped since they came online here more than 3 years ago.

Given the current disparity in the basic HD lineups, I think it depends on what sort of programming your looking for. If sports is your bag, then sure the grass is a little greener, but in terms of basic HD channels, DirecTV has one of the worst lawns on the block.
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#43 OFFLINE   maartena

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 11:13 AM

You're not alone there.


I don't think many people are running out to get 3D TV's for the 3D. I do however believe, that 3D will become a "standard feature" on all TV's within the next 2 years, with the exception maybe of the models cheaper then $500 or so. Just like most decent TV's now come with a USB port to play video from a harddrive, have built-in ethernet ports, built-in dolby surround, etc.... you buy a new TV because you happen to need a new TV, and it just happens to come with 3D as well. It's simply one of those features that doesn't cost a LOT extra (in the long run, mass production).

Regarding AT&T, even if you happen to have a TV that has 3D... I don't see people spending $10 a month just to have the 1 3D channel U-verse used to carry. It's one of those things that if you have a 3D TV, you don't want to spend $10 on HD, PLUS another $10 for 3D. It should be rolled into the HD access, like DirecTV. (where you can forego on the $10 a month with auto-bill-pay, so it essentially becomes "free".)

With regards to 3D, I did look on the DirecTV site, and just happen to notice this:

"Is DIRECTV working with programmers to develop new 3D content?

Yes, DIRECTV is currently working with a number of studios and programmers to develop additional 3D programming that will debut in 2011."

So we can expect more 3D before the end of the year.
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#44 OFFLINE   Hoosier205

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 11:24 AM

I think a statement like that needs some supporting data.


What type of data would you like to see? We already know how many retrans deals they complete compared to how many channels they drop.
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#45 OFFLINE   Paul Secic

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 11:43 AM

It really is not taking off very quickly, is it?


3D won't last 4 years.

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#46 OFFLINE   Jeremy W

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 12:01 PM

The point is, DirecTV retains numerous channels each year while dropping very few.

Every provider retains far more channels than they drop.

The grass is greener right where we are in this case.

In the time U-verse has been around, DirecTV has dropped the same number of channels U-verse has. Although the U-verse customers who lost the channel they subscribed to saw their bill go down $10. When DirecTV dropped G4, nobody's bill went down.

The grass certainly isn't any greener on DirecTV's side.

#47 OFFLINE   TBoneit

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 12:34 PM

G4 shot themselves in the foot, their efforts to rally their "loyal" viewers failed because whatever loyal viewers they once had already stopped watching when they fired most of the tech tv personalities and replaced video game and tech programming with "Cops 2.0"

The channel is going under anyway since it's likely going to be purchased by UFC, which will bring it back to D*.

Another example:
Trio -> A few months later NBC Universal pulled the plug and used the transponder space to launch Sleuth. And by the time D* dropped the channel NBC Universal really didn't know what they were going to do with it so they didn't renew the contract. (It was originally the American outlet for CBC programming, but by then it was just random cancelled shows from the NBC Universal library)

As for ESPN 3D, AT&T picked the worst time to drop the channel. The X Games, upcoming College Football, etc. Most of the summer is really the slow season for ESPN, it's late summer and fall when the coverage picks up.


Maybe they looked at the subscription pattern and found that most people paying for it only had it for a short period of time rather than for the long term.

IOWs sub for a particular sport or event and then drop it.

Look at it this way, for all those calling for Ala Carte, here was a Ala carte channel that failed. If it were not Ala Carte and was part of a sports channels bundle it would most likely still be on.
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#48 OFFLINE   Hoosier205

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 12:36 PM

Truer words have never been spoken, at least concerning 3D


Yes, the pros and cons to each tech are clear now. One is clearly better than the other. Even those within the industry are calling LG out on it.

Keeping channels instead of dropping them is a good thing and something DirecTV has been very successful at.
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#49 OFFLINE   BattleScott

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 12:57 PM

The point is, DirecTV retains numerous channels each year while dropping very few. The grass is greener right where we are in this case.


What type of data would you like to see? We already know how many retrans deals they complete compared to how many channels they drop.


The second part of the original statement "the grass is greener..." means that directv's performance in "retention vs. drops" is better than all the other providers. I would just like to see some data, total drops per year by carrier for a time period, etc. to support that. It may very well be true, but I have been carefully watching U-Verse over the last 3 years in this area and ESPN3D is the only channel I know of that they have dropped altogether.
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#50 OFFLINE   Hoosier205

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 01:09 PM

The second part of the original statement "the grass is greener..." means that directv's performance in "retention vs. drops" is better than all the other providers. I would just like to see some data, total drops per year by carrier for a time period, etc. to support that. It may very well be true, but I have been carefully watching U-Verse over the last 3 years in this area and ESPN3D is the only channel I know of that they have dropped altogether.


You need me to point out why the grass is greener with DirecTV when compared to U-Verse? Yikes...
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