Jump to content


Welcome to DBSTalk


Sign In 

Create Account
Welcome to DBSTalk. Our community covers all aspects of video delivery solutions including: Direct Broadcast Satellite (DBS), Cable Television, and Internet Protocol Television (IPTV). We also have forums to discuss popular television programs, home theater equipment, and internet streaming service providers. Members of our community include experts who can help you solve technical problems, industry professionals, company representatives, and novices who are here to learn.

Like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community. Sign-up is a free and simple process that requires minimal information. Be a part of our community by signing in or creating an account. The Digital Bit Stream starts here!
  • Reply to existing topics or start a discussion of your own
  • Subscribe to topics and forums and get email updates
  • Send private personal messages (PM) to other forum members
  • Customize your profile page and make new friends
 
Guest Message by DevFuse

Photo

DISH Misses, Subscriber Loss Soars


  • Please log in to reply
90 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   Hoosier205

Hoosier205

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 6,596 posts
Joined: Sep 03, 2007

Posted 09 August 2011 - 06:47 AM

DISH Misses, Subscriber Loss Soars

DISH Network Corp. declared mixed financial results for the second quarter of 2011. Though revenue beat the Zacks Consensus Estimate, driven by additional contribution from newly acquired Blockbuster Inc., EPS fell below it.

However, the alarming sign is that net subscriber loss mounted in the previous quarter to 135,000 compared with a net loss of a mere 19,000 in the prior-year quarter. As on June 30, 2011, DISH Network had approximately 14.056 million subscribers.


http://www.dailymark...ber-loss-soars/

...Ads Help To Support This SIte...

#2 OFFLINE   harsh

harsh

    Beware the Attack Basset

  • Registered
  • 19,375 posts
  • LocationSalem, OR
Joined: Jun 14, 2003

Posted 09 August 2011 - 07:33 AM

Interesting is that the ARPU took a $5.01 hop over 2010 to $78.06.

The 10Q is positively clogged with information related to the Blockbuster acquisition.

http://dish.client.s...104659-11-45060

Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. -- JFK


#3 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

Stewart Vernon

    Excellent Adventurer

  • Moderators
  • 19,846 posts
  • LocationKittrell, NC
Joined: Jan 07, 2005

Posted 09 August 2011 - 08:41 AM

I don't know about Dish... or companies in general... but I don't think the average public and even some investors really look at what is said by the numbers.

For example:

Comparing the June 30th ended quarters in 2011 vs 2010 we see:

2011 gross added: 572,000
2011 net loss: 135,000

2010 gross added: 747,000
2010 net loss: 19,000

So... most people jump to the net loss and say "Dish lost more customers this quarter than they did the same quarter last year"... but they really didn't.

Look closer!

Last year, during the same quarter, Dish added 175,000 more subscribers than they did this quarter... IF Dish had added those same amount of new subscribers this quarter, they would have posted a net gain of 40,000 subscribers compared to last year's 19,000.

So... what the numbers really tell you is NOT that Dish lost more subscribers this quarter compared to last year. In fact, they actually lost less customers... but rather they failed to gain new customers at the same rate.

This really says that Dish improved customer retention... but failed in new customer acquisition. It's important to note the distinction when moving forward with future business plans to realize where they need improvement.

-- Respect the S.H.I.E.L.D.


#4 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

Stewart Vernon

    Excellent Adventurer

  • Moderators
  • 19,846 posts
  • LocationKittrell, NC
Joined: Jan 07, 2005

Posted 09 August 2011 - 08:46 AM

DISH Network Revenues Grow by 13.3 Percent to $3.59 Billion and Net Income Increases 30.3 Percent to $335 Million


ENGLEWOOD, Colo., Aug. 9, 2011 /PRNewswire/ -- DISH Network Corporation (NASDAQ: DISH) today reported its second quarter 2011 financial results.

(Logo: http://photos.prnews...611/LA19624LOGO)
Revenue totaled $3.59 billion for the quarter ended June 30, 2011, a 13.3 percent increase compared with $3.17 billion for the corresponding period in 2010. Net income attributable to common shareholders totaled $335 million for the quarter ended June 30, 2011, a 30.3 percent increase compared with $257 million during the same period last year. Diluted earnings per share were $0.75 for the second quarter, compared with $0.57 during the same period in 2010. DISH Network's net subscribers decreased by approximately 135,000 during the second quarter, and the company ended June 30, 2011, with approximately 14.056 million subscribers.

"DISH Network delivered another quarter of strong growth in revenue and net income," said Joe Clayton, president and CEO of DISH Network. "The second quarter was also marked by several other achievements including our purchase of most of the Blockbuster assets, settlement of the Tivo litigation, and renewal of a multi-year partnership with Frontier Communications, offering DISH Network's digital TV entertainment to Frontier's nearly 4 million customers in 27 states. Our decrease in net subscribers was primarily due to increased competitive pressures, including higher levels of discounting."

Clayton added, "As we look forward to the second half of the year, we will focus on commercializing our technology, re-energizing our distribution channels and strengthening our brand image. We continue to offer the best value to consumers with the lowest everyday prices, in part by freezing prices through January 2013."

Year-to-Date Review
DISH Network's first half revenues of $6.81 billion increased 9.4 percent over the same period last year primarily due to programming package price increases in early 2011. In the first six months of 2011, net income attributable to DISH Network increased 81.2 percent to $884 million, diluted earnings per share nearly doubled to $1.98 due to the higher net income, and ARPU of $76.72 increased 6.4 percent.
Detailed financial data and other information are available in DISH Network's Form 10-Q for the quarterly period ended June 30, 2011, filed today with the Securities and Exchange Commission.
DISH Network will host its second quarter 2011 financial results conference call today at noon ET. The dial-in number is (800) 616-6729.

About DISH Network
DISH Network Corporation (NASDAQ: DISH), through its subsidiary DISH Network L.L.C., provides approximately 14.056 million satellite TV customers, as of June 30, 2011, with the highest quality programming and technology with the most choices at the best value, including HD Free for Life. Subscribers enjoy the largest high definition line-up with more than 200 national HD channels, the most international channels, and award-winning HD and DVR technology. DISH Network's subsidiary, Blockbuster L.L.C., delivers family entertainment to millions of customers around the world. DISH Network Corporation is a Fortune 200 company. Visit www.dish.com.

SOURCE DISH Network Corporation

-- Respect the S.H.I.E.L.D.


#5 OFFLINE   RAD

RAD

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 16,084 posts
  • LocationDripping Springs, TX
Joined: Aug 05, 2002

Posted 09 August 2011 - 08:59 AM

This really says that Dish improved customer retention... but failed in new customer acquisition. It's important to note the distinction when moving forward with future business plans to realize where they need improvement.


So what does Dish need to do to get those new customers? They went with the free HD for life. They have a large range of programming packages to help fit everyones budget. They have more national HD chanels then the other satellite company and many cable companies local systems. They have award winning HD DVR's.

The other company had a gross add of 954,000 US subs vs the 572,000 of Dish and folks here keep harping on the lack of national HD channels that they have, how their prices are much higher and their hardware stinks.

How does Dish turn things around since to me they've tried a number of different plans and they still lose customers?

See post My Setup for configuration info.


#6 OFFLINE   DodgerKing

DodgerKing

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 2,041 posts
Joined: Apr 28, 2008

Posted 09 August 2011 - 09:26 AM

It is amazing the spinning going on in this site. Seriously, I have never seen so much bias in my life. It is amazing you guys can even stand after how dizzy you get spinning.

The truth of the matter is Dish keeps losing more subs than they gain quarter after quarter. Out of the last 4 or 5 quarters they have only had one postie net growth in subs. No matter how much you want to spin, no matter how much they profit in the short term, no business can continue to operate in such a manner. It is not a good thing to lose more customers than you gain over and over and over again. They seriously need to address this issue. I do not want to see only one DBS provider. It will make satellite TV become like SiriusXM (and that is not a good thing)

#7 OFFLINE   DodgerKing

DodgerKing

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 2,041 posts
Joined: Apr 28, 2008

Posted 09 August 2011 - 09:33 AM

So what does Dish need to do to get those new customers? They went with the free HD for life. They have a large range of programming packages to help fit everyones budget. They have more national HD chanels then the other satellite company and many cable companies local systems. They have award winning HD DVR's.

The other company had a gross add of 954,000 US subs vs the 572,000 of Dish and folks here keep harping on the lack of national HD channels that they have, how their prices are much higher and their hardware stinks.

How does Dish turn things around since to me they've tried a number of different plans and they still lose customers?


It is simple. The main reason why people chose satellite over local cable or fiber, IMO, is because of packages not offered with their local service. Local packages often include bundling which people jump all over. The only way Dish can compete with these local providers AND the other satellite service is to offer something attractive that nobody else offers. Direct does this with sports, perhaps Dish can do the same with movies?

To be honest, what I believe is really hurting them is their lack of sports programming, which attracts people to satellite. Even local programming is missing as local RSNs are game only (many good local programming in HD cannot be seen), still many games are JIP'd (even though this was supposed to be taken care of), and virtually nothing is offered in sports in the largest market in the US (NY). Why would sports fans go to Dish when they can get all of their locals in HD through a local provider or through DirecTV?

#8 OFFLINE   EdJ

EdJ

    Legend

  • Registered
  • 169 posts
Joined: Jan 09, 2007

Posted 09 August 2011 - 09:34 AM

The loss of accounts could be a sign of the bad economy. When times are tough and 'belt-tightening' is needed, something like a satellite subscription would be one of the first luxuries to go.

#9 OFFLINE   Paul Secic

Paul Secic

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 6,169 posts
Joined: Dec 16, 2003

Posted 09 August 2011 - 09:42 AM

http://www.dailymark...ber-loss-soars/


Going forward all carriers will see lower growth due to the economy.

Enjoying AT 250 HBO, 

 

Equipment: VIP 722 reciever


#10 ONLINE   sigma1914

sigma1914

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 14,117 posts
  • LocationAllen, TX
Joined: Sep 05, 2006

Posted 09 August 2011 - 09:45 AM

The loss of accounts could be a sign of the bad economy. When times are tough and 'belt-tightening' is needed, something like a satellite subscription would be one of the first luxuries to go.


The economy has been in the dumper for months, yet the other satellite company has had months & months of positive growth.
If you stop responding to them or put them on ignore, then eventually they'll go away.

#11 OFFLINE   DodgerKing

DodgerKing

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 2,041 posts
Joined: Apr 28, 2008

Posted 09 August 2011 - 09:52 AM

The loss of accounts could be a sign of the bad economy. When times are tough and 'belt-tightening' is needed, something like a satellite subscription would be one of the first luxuries to go.

Could be.

But, what was the excuse when the economy wasn't bad? Why are other providers like FiOs and DirecTV gaining subs?

I honestly think it has to do with programming. Dish offers nothing different from local providers for what most subs want. Dish also lacks in programming that the local providers and the other satellite company offers, particularly local RSN programming (both Direct and local providers), sports packages (mostly Direct), bundling deals (mostly local providers but DirecTV also has bundling deals with ATT and Verizon locally), and sub channels for locals (local providers)

#12 OFFLINE   cariera

cariera

    Icon

  • Registered
  • 862 posts
Joined: Oct 27, 2006

Posted 09 August 2011 - 09:56 AM

2011 gross added: 572,000
2011 net loss: 135,000

2010 gross added: 747,000
2010 net loss: 19,000

So... most people jump to the net loss and say "Dish lost more customers this quarter than they did the same quarter last year"... but they really didn't.

Look closer!


So... what the numbers really tell you is NOT that Dish lost more subscribers this quarter compared to last year. In fact, they actually lost less customers... but rather they failed to gain new customers at the same rate.



Huh?? Really??

2011 Gross Adds (572K) - 2011 Gross Loss (707K) = 2011 Net Loss (135K)

2010 Gross Adds (747K) - 2010 Gross Loss (766K) = 2010 Net Loss (19K)

Yes Dish's gross loss of subs was 59K less than last year, while their growth of gross subs was 175K less than last year.

This tells me that Dish lost a net of 135K customers this past quarter, thus reducing their overall customer base, while Directv added net subs for the 66th consectutive quarter

Spin away.

#13 OFFLINE   phrelin

phrelin

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 13,541 posts
  • LocationNorthern California Redwoods
Joined: Jan 18, 2007

Posted 09 August 2011 - 10:10 AM

It is amazing the spinning going on in this site. Seriously, I have never seen so much bias in my life. It is amazing you guys can even stand after how dizzy you get spinning.

The truth of the matter is Dish keeps losing more subs than they gain quarter after quarter. Out of the last 4 or 5 quarters they have only had one postie net growth in subs. No matter how much you want to spin, no matter how much they profit in the short term, no business can continue to operate in such a manner. It is not a good thing to lose more customers than you gain over and over and over again. They seriously need to address this issue.

Actually, the piece of information that would make all the discussion about subscribers meaningful is the makeup of the subscriber numbers.

Historically, Dish has focused on offering lower prices. The upside of that is the new customers who in an economic downturn make smart spending choices based on their financial situation. The downside of that is the former new customers who just before the downturn made poor spending choices just because they barely could qualify leaving a battered dish on their vacant foreclosed home.

Dish's ARPU is $78.06 with with 14.056 million subscribers in the quarter ending June 2011. Just before The Great Recession began, in the quarter ending June 2007 it was $66.06 with 13.585 million subscribers.

Based on those numbers, Dish is doing things right. Somehow Dish has been able to make substantial gains (perhaps by not giving away so much money for each and every subscriber to Disney for ESPN or to other sports channel thieves who steal from each and every one of us).

Adding sports channels is not a win-win. It's the old widget thing where the guy says proudly "we doubled the number of widgets we sold." The other guy responds, "but we're losing 2¢ on each widget we sell."

As of this past quarter it has become clear that Dish is focusing on becoming a meaningful participant in the streaming business. While buying Blockbuster was an interesting move, the long term potential can only be seen in the whole "big picture" context. And that big picture includes recent acquisitions of wireless bandwidth and technology, which is also related to the earlier Sling Media acquisition.

Every signal provider should know that a "tipping point" is in the reasonably near future (thing 2025) when large numbers of media consumers will decide to utilize a more affordable combination of delivery options.

It appears Charlie is trying to have his legacy be a company that is successfully (profitably) in the mix. I think he has a good chance based on this latest financial report.

"In a hundred years there'll be a whole new set of people."
"Always poke the bears. They sleep too much for their own good."

"If you're good enough, they'll talk about you." - Tom Harmon
A GEEZER who remembers watching TV in 1951 and was an Echostar customer from 1988 to 2008, now a Dish Network customer.
My AV Setup
My Slingbox Pro HD Experience
My Blog: The Redwood Guardian


#14 OFFLINE   tampa8

tampa8

    Godfather/Supporter

  • Registered
  • 1,855 posts
Joined: Mar 30, 2002

Posted 09 August 2011 - 11:12 AM

Phrelin and Stewart have a good handle on it. Dodger Kings's view is very simplistic - fewer subs = Bad.

#15 ONLINE   sigma1914

sigma1914

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 14,117 posts
  • LocationAllen, TX
Joined: Sep 05, 2006

Posted 09 August 2011 - 11:14 AM

Phrelin and Stewart have a good handle on it. Dodger Kings's view is very simplistic - fewer subs = Bad.


So losing more subs is ok and Dish shouldn't care? :lol:
If you stop responding to them or put them on ignore, then eventually they'll go away.

#16 OFFLINE   phrelin

phrelin

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 13,541 posts
  • LocationNorthern California Redwoods
Joined: Jan 18, 2007

Posted 09 August 2011 - 02:27 PM

So losing more subs is ok and Dish shouldn't care? :lol:

If they are high risk subs, likely to move out with the boxes, owing a couple of months of charges, file bankruptcy, etc., yeah losing those subs isn't bad in the long term.

The question is, who are the subs you're adding? Are they folks who looked over their finances, dumped a more expensive cable package, and chose Dish because the pricing fits their situation?

Not all new subscribers are equal.

"In a hundred years there'll be a whole new set of people."
"Always poke the bears. They sleep too much for their own good."

"If you're good enough, they'll talk about you." - Tom Harmon
A GEEZER who remembers watching TV in 1951 and was an Echostar customer from 1988 to 2008, now a Dish Network customer.
My AV Setup
My Slingbox Pro HD Experience
My Blog: The Redwood Guardian


#17 OFFLINE   SayWhat?

SayWhat?

    Know Nothing

  • Registered
  • 5,697 posts
Joined: Jun 06, 2009

Posted 09 August 2011 - 03:00 PM

I get the impression that all the freebie promos tend to backfire after a while. People sign up to get the freebie and once their contract is up, they go somewhere else to get another freebie. How many times do we see posters here doing just that - switching from DirecTV to Dish and back every year or two? We even have people coming here to the boards asking about what they can get to come back to one or the other.

Promos should be once per address/resident - no repeats. A 'new' customer should be just that - never had Dish before. One, maybe two retention promos.
Help stamp out Twits and Twitterers!

HD, SchmacHD!! Just be glad you've got a picture at all.

#18 OFFLINE   Carl Spock

Carl Spock

    Superfly

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 4,567 posts
Joined: Sep 03, 2004

Posted 09 August 2011 - 03:10 PM

It costs less for a company to retain a customer than it does to get a new one.

You also want to have customers that give you value, who spend a lot with your company.

So, yes, Stewart Vernon and phrelin are right. At least as important as any net number of customers is having those from whom you are making money.
hangin' with the bros at 40 Eridani A

#19 OFFLINE   lparsons21

lparsons21

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 3,381 posts
  • LocationHerrin, IL
Joined: Mar 04, 2006

Posted 09 August 2011 - 03:15 PM

I get the impression that all the freebie promos tend to backfire after a while. People sign up to get the freebie and once their contract is up, they go somewhere else to get another freebie. How many times do we see posters here doing just that - switching from DirecTV to Dish and back every year or two? We even have people coming here to the boards asking about what they can get to come back to one or the other.

Promos should be once per address/resident - no repeats. A 'new' customer should be just that - never had Dish before. One, maybe two retention promos.


I don't agree, and the TV subscription market doesn't seem to either. Both Sat companies and most cable companies do the same thing. And the number that swap just because of the perceived money savings may not be as big as you think. They may be changing for other reasons and saving money just becomes a part of it because it is there.

I'm in the process of switching myself. And it wasn't brought on by saving money even though that is a benefit, it was brought on by wanting to watch something that Dish doesn't have.

Lloyd
Receiver : Dish Hopper w/Sling & Super Joey
HDTV : Mitsi WD-73742 73" 3D DLP
Surround: Denon AVR-2113ci 7.1 Setup

 


#20 ONLINE   sigma1914

sigma1914

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 14,117 posts
  • LocationAllen, TX
Joined: Sep 05, 2006

Posted 09 August 2011 - 03:44 PM

Ok, the spinners win...It's ok Dish, TWC, Comcast, & Charter lost subs. They're all fine with it.
If you stop responding to them or put them on ignore, then eventually they'll go away.




Protected By... spam firewall...And...