Jump to content


Welcome to DBSTalk


Sign In 

Create Account
Welcome to DBSTalk. Our community covers all aspects of video delivery solutions including: Direct Broadcast Satellite (DBS), Cable Television, and Internet Protocol Television (IPTV). We also have forums to discuss popular television programs, home theater equipment, and internet streaming service providers. Members of our community include experts who can help you solve technical problems, industry professionals, company representatives, and novices who are here to learn.

Like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community. Sign-up is a free and simple process that requires minimal information. Be a part of our community by signing in or creating an account. The Digital Bit Stream starts here!
  • Reply to existing topics or start a discussion of your own
  • Subscribe to topics and forums and get email updates
  • Send private personal messages (PM) to other forum members
  • Customize your profile page and make new friends
 
Guest Message by DevFuse

Photo
- - - - -

Slimline 5 required for locals?


  • Please log in to reply
34 replies to this topic

#21 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

veryoldschool

    Lifetime Achiever

  • Moderators
  • 41,988 posts
Joined: Dec 09, 2006

Posted 25 August 2011 - 04:24 PM

Sorry...

I followed the link from another thread, and didn't realize it was an old thread.

Like the OP, you could get guide data for the channels by flushing the guide cache, but the data would disappear shortly after.

I'm commenting about it again in another thread.

~Alan

I am following what you're saying, as while it has nothing to do with the type of LNB, it seems receiver/authorization type problem, if the reboot picks up the data [so it's in the stream], but later stops/dumps it because the receiver "doesn't think" the data is applicable.
Long long ago, in a test group, while not the same, my receiver wouldn't get my SD locals. It turned out to be it was blocking the TP it needed and not another one it didn't need. This took a few "tries" by DirecTV to sort out, which I think was with firmware.
A.K.A VOS

...Ads Help To Support This SIte...

#22 OFFLINE   Alan Gordon

Alan Gordon

    Chancellor

  • Registered
  • 8,969 posts
  • LocationDawson, Georgia
Joined: Jun 07, 2004

Posted 25 August 2011 - 04:33 PM

I am following what you're saying, as while it has nothing to do with the type of LNB, it seems receiver/authorization type problem, if the reboot picks up the data [so it's in the stream], but later stops/dumps it because the receiver "doesn't think" the data is applicable.
Long long ago, in a test group, while not the same, my receiver wouldn't get my SD locals. It turned out to be it was blocking the TP it needed and not another one it didn't need. This took a few "tries" by DirecTV to sort out, which I think was with firmware.


BINGO!! You got it...

I knew about the problems with Rapid City locals due to another thread (now closed) in the Programming section. I did not notice this one until HoTat2 brought it to my attention in another thread (today), or else I would have posted prior to now.

As you could tell from the Albany, GA Local Issues thread, me and other "locals" were reporting the problem every day... and it took almost two months to get it straightened out. I'm now experiencing the issue again with one channel thanks to a change in my locals...

~Alan

#23 OFFLINE   HoTat2

HoTat2

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 5,266 posts
  • LocationLos Angeles, CA.
Joined: Nov 16, 2005

Posted 25 August 2011 - 10:19 PM

BINGO!! You got it...

I knew about the problems with Rapid City locals due to another thread (now closed) in the Programming section. I did not notice this one until HoTat2 brought it to my attention in another thread (today), or else I would have posted prior to now.

As you could tell from the Albany, GA Local Issues thread, me and other "locals" were reporting the problem every day... and it took almost two months to get it straightened out. I'm now experiencing the issue again with one channel thanks to a change in my locals...

~Alan


Whatever the specific causes, there appears to be a link of this issue with channels in a market that have Network IDs of 10, 11, 14, and 15 having channel guide loading failures and those that have a true local NET ID in the range of 512-723 where the guide data loads normally.

Why? ... I don't have a clue. gct did inform me that the usual local NET IDs of 512-723 are actually subsets of Networks 11 and 14, but ... who knows? ...

#24 OFFLINE   HoTat2

HoTat2

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 5,266 posts
  • LocationLos Angeles, CA.
Joined: Nov 16, 2005

Posted 25 August 2011 - 10:30 PM

I am following what you're saying, as while it has nothing to do with the type of LNB, it seems receiver/authorization type problem, if the reboot picks up the data [so it's in the stream], but later stops/dumps it because the receiver "doesn't think" the data is applicable.
Long long ago, in a test group, while not the same, my receiver wouldn't get my SD locals. It turned out to be it was blocking the TP it needed and not another one it didn't need. This took a few "tries" by DirecTV to sort out, which I think was with firmware.


I agree the type of LNB here *should* have no logical connection to this problem, but I was simply bowing to RobertE's instruction that a SlimLine-5 in these markets is nevertheless required as a fix to this problem.

For now at least ...

As to specifically why, I can't fathom ...

#25 OFFLINE   Alan Gordon

Alan Gordon

    Chancellor

  • Registered
  • 8,969 posts
  • LocationDawson, Georgia
Joined: Jun 07, 2004

Posted 26 August 2011 - 01:19 AM

Whatever the specific causes, there appears to be a link of this issue with channels in a market that have Network IDs of 10, 11, 14, and 15 having channel guide loading failures and those that have a true local NET ID in the range of 512-723 where the guide data loads normally.

Why? ... I don't have a clue. gct did inform me that the usual local NET IDs of 512-723 are actually subsets of Networks 11 and 14, but ... who knows? ...


One common denominator I've found (in my particular case) is that the channels with the problems were all listed as "virtual channels."

When my locals launched, 10 (NBC), 31 (FOX), & 55 (IND) had guide data at 5:35 the morning of launch. Only 14 (PBS), 17 (CW), and 25 (ABC) had "To Be Announced" listed, and all three were listed as a "virtual channel." PBS lost the virtual tag a few days later, and guide information started coming in. CW and ABC continued to be listed as a "virtual channel," which is most likely due to the fact that ABC and CW were imported into my DMA from the Jacksonville, FL DMA, and were the same signal remapped (from the Jacksonville, FL spot-beam). When 44 (CBS) was added a couple of months later, it had guide data (and was NOT a "virtual channel") from the start... heck, it had guide data even before it started. When the CW and ABC feeds were replaced earlier this year with LOCAL SD MPEG4 feeds, they too had guide data from the start. HOWEVER, with the replacement of our PBS with another neighboring PBS (identical state-wide channel) on a different spot-beam, I am once again seeing the "To Be Announced" bug again... and guess what, it's a "virtual channel."

It COULD all be a coincidence in my market... and the two channels in Rapid City, SD might not be "virtual channels," but it is something I've noticed. As veryoldschool has stated, it appears to be a "receiver/authorization type problem"... but in my market, it appears that somebody is forgetting to throw the switch (so to speak) on virtual channels... ;)

~Alan

#26 OFFLINE   doctor j

doctor j

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 1,466 posts
  • LocationBirmingham, Al.
Joined: Jun 14, 2006

Posted 26 August 2011 - 06:55 AM

One common denominator I've found (in my particular case) is that the channels with the problems were all listed as "virtual channels."

When my locals launched, 10 (NBC), 31 (FOX), & 55 (IND) had guide data at 5:35 the morning of launch. Only 14 (PBS), 17 (CW), and 25 (ABC) had "To Be Announced" listed, and all three were listed as a "virtual channel." PBS lost the virtual tag a few days later, and guide information started coming in. CW and ABC continued to be listed as a "virtual channel," which is most likely due to the fact that ABC and CW were imported into my DMA from the Jacksonville, FL DMA, and were the same signal remapped (from the Jacksonville, FL spot-beam). When 44 (CBS) was added a couple of months later, it had guide data (and was NOT a "virtual channel") from the start... heck, it had guide data even before it started. When the CW and ABC feeds were replaced earlier this year with LOCAL SD MPEG4 feeds, they too had guide data from the start. HOWEVER, with the replacement of our PBS with another neighboring PBS (identical state-wide channel) on a different spot-beam, I am once again seeing the "To Be Announced" bug again... and guess what, it's a "virtual channel."

It COULD all be a coincidence in my market... and the two channels in Rapid City, SD might not be "virtual channels," but it is something I've noticed. As veryoldschool has stated, it appears to be a "receiver/authorization type problem"... but in my market, it appears that somebody is forgetting to throw the switch (so to speak) on virtual channels... ;)

~Alan


as a possible connection
only Albany and now Rapid City started out with the LIL's listed in NET 14 (11) not the NET 512 to 723 like all the others are.
I have no clue what this means but clearly is a marker for the problem.
I believe the new PBS in your market has a peculiar position in the data.

Doctor j

MFH-2 System : 2 Major Viewing Areas. 2 x HR20-700's & H21 in each area via E2/SWM-8. Hardwire gigabit switch to 30 mb/sec internet.


#27 OFFLINE   fleckrj

fleckrj

    Icon

  • Registered
  • 1,175 posts
  • LocationCary, NC
Joined: Sep 04, 2009

Posted 26 August 2011 - 07:51 AM

This suggestion might be coming from left field, but it costs nothing to try. When your receiver is not in use, swithch it to a SD channel before you turn it off. That will trigger the LNB to only look at 101.

I know my situation was entirely different, so that probably will not work for you, but it is worth trying. I had a SL5 from before the SL3 became available. My HD locals are on 103, so I really did not need 110 or 119 for anything other than the guide data when the LNB was set to look at 103. I did not have LOS to 119, so I could not receive the guide data when I was watching channels that were coming from 103. Ultimately, I had the SL5 switched out for a SL3, but the interim workaround for me was to remember to "park" the receiver on a channel I knew was on 101 (I used DIY or Cooking) before I powered it off. That eliminated my guide problems.

I know that with a SL3, guide data should be coming from 101 all of the time, but there is a possibility that a software error when you started receiving your HD locals is making the receiver think that it must get the guide data from 119.

#28 OFFLINE   HoTat2

HoTat2

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 5,266 posts
  • LocationLos Angeles, CA.
Joined: Nov 16, 2005

Posted 26 August 2011 - 09:51 AM

as a possible connection
only Albany and now Rapid City started out with the LIL's listed in NET 14 (11) not the NET 512 to 723 like all the others are.
I have no clue what this means but clearly is a marker for the problem. ...


Yep;

That's what I found as well ...

I wonder if the channels listed as "virtual" Alan noticed in the past also had Network IDs in the 10-15 range?

I believe the new PBS in your market has a peculiar position in the data.
Doctor j


It does, GPB has a NET ID listed as "15" in the latest transponder map as opposed to all others which now have a usual LiL NET ID range assignment of "513" for Albany, GA.

Edited by HoTat2, 26 August 2011 - 10:11 AM.


#29 OFFLINE   HoTat2

HoTat2

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 5,266 posts
  • LocationLos Angeles, CA.
Joined: Nov 16, 2005

Posted 26 August 2011 - 09:58 AM

This suggestion might be coming from left field, but it costs nothing to try. When your receiver is not in use, swithch it to a SD channel before you turn it off. That will trigger the LNB to only look at 101.

I know my situation was entirely different, so that probably will not work for you, but it is worth trying. I had a SL5 from before the SL3 became available. My HD locals are on 103, so I really did not need 110 or 119 for anything other than the guide data when the LNB was set to look at 103. I did not have LOS to 119, so I could not receive the guide data when I was watching channels that were coming from 103. Ultimately, I had the SL5 switched out for a SL3, but the interim workaround for me was to remember to "park" the receiver on a channel I knew was on 101 (I used DIY or Cooking) before I powered it off. That eliminated my guide problems.

I know that with a SL3, guide data should be coming from 101 all of the time, but there is a possibility that a software error when you started receiving your HD locals is making the receiver think that it must get the guide data from 119.


This might be a possible cause for legacy or non-SWiM installs, but how do you account for installs with SWiMLNBs or modules which are designed to always get their guide data from 101 and are still experiencing the problem?

#30 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

veryoldschool

    Lifetime Achiever

  • Moderators
  • 41,988 posts
Joined: Dec 09, 2006

Posted 26 August 2011 - 10:10 AM

This suggestion might be coming from left field, but it costs nothing to try. When your receiver is not in use, swithch it to a SD channel before you turn it off. That will trigger the LNB to only look at 101.

I know my situation was entirely different, so that probably will not work for you, but it is worth trying. I had a SL5 from before the SL3 became available. My HD locals are on 103, so I really did not need 110 or 119 for anything other than the guide data when the LNB was set to look at 103. I did not have LOS to 119, so I could not receive the guide data when I was watching channels that were coming from 103. Ultimately, I had the SL5 switched out for a SL3, but the interim workaround for me was to remember to "park" the receiver on a channel I knew was on 101 (I used DIY or Cooking) before I powered it off. That eliminated my guide problems.

I know that with a SL3, guide data should be coming from 101 all of the time, but there is a possibility that a software error when you started receiving your HD locals is making the receiver think that it must get the guide data from 119.

"I like left field" :lol:
The problem is....
The SL5 does switch between 119 & 101 for guide data, while the SL3 doesn't AT ALL.
Nothing in a receiver can change this, since it's "solely" due to how the LNBs are wired.

Now for my "left field":
The firmware is coded to dump [not look at] the guide data for these channels, when the receiver is set for the SL3, and doesn't when set to the SL5.
If this has any merit, then changing the receiver to the SL5 would be a work-a-round, as the SL3 is always feeding the guide data from 101, regardless of what the receiver is set to.
A.K.A VOS

#31 OFFLINE   HoTat2

HoTat2

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 5,266 posts
  • LocationLos Angeles, CA.
Joined: Nov 16, 2005

Posted 26 August 2011 - 10:17 AM

"I like left field" :lol:
The problem is....
The SL5 does switch between 119 & 101 for guide data, while the SL3 doesn't AT ALL.
Nothing in a receiver can change this, since it's "solely" due to how the LNBs are wired.

Now for my "left field":
The firmware is coded to dump [not look at] the guide data for these channels, when the receiver is set for the SL3, and doesn't when set to the SL5.
If this has any merit, then changing the receiver to the SL5 would be a work-a-round, as the SL3 is always feeding the guide data from 101, regardless of what the receiver is set to.


But the OP said a CSR had him try this back in post #5. Still a no-go.

#32 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

veryoldschool

    Lifetime Achiever

  • Moderators
  • 41,988 posts
Joined: Dec 09, 2006

Posted 26 August 2011 - 10:47 AM

But the OP said a CSR had him try this back in post #5. Still a no-go.

Post #5 isn't clear as to the steps taken.
The receiver seems to grab the guide data on a reboot, but stop updating.
What were the steps taken and how long?
This is a "left field", so :shrug:
A.K.A VOS

#33 OFFLINE   Alan Gordon

Alan Gordon

    Chancellor

  • Registered
  • 8,969 posts
  • LocationDawson, Georgia
Joined: Jun 07, 2004

Posted 26 August 2011 - 04:12 PM

as a possible connection
only Albany and now Rapid City started out with the LIL's listed in NET 14 (11) not the NET 512 to 723 like all the others are.
I have no clue what this means but clearly is a marker for the problem.
I believe the new PBS in your market has a peculiar position in the data.


In my case (not sure about Rapid City), I'd say that it's NOT the cause of the problem, but yeah, I'd say there's definitely a connection (same thing with the virtual channels).

The reason why I state that it's not the cause of the problem is that the problems with PBS (the last time), ABC, and CW were fixed PRIOR to them moving from the incorrect network to the correct network of 513.

The same deal with the "virtual channel" thing. ABC and CW correctly identified themselves as "virtual channels" even after the problem was fixed... however, I feel that it's more than coincidence that the only times I've experienced the issue are when the channels were labeled as virtual.... and not the other 6 times.

It'd be interesting to know about Rapid City...

I wonder if the channels listed as "virtual" Alan noticed in the past also had Network IDs in the 10-15 range?


Wonder no more...

Yes!

Well... with the exception of GPB...

Peculiar listing of Albany GA.
GPB PBS Ch 14 is now listed in Market 2 NET 513.
Other albany channels still showing on CONUS listing??


Since WABW only lacked guide data for a few days, perhaps it started out on NET 14/15 with the rest of them. Note that the other two channels I had issues with were were NET 15 until they were moved to NET 513... prior to the rest of my locals that that didn't have guide issues (aside from WSWG which was on NET 513 from the start when it launched a couple of months later).

~Alan

#34 OFFLINE   Alan Gordon

Alan Gordon

    Chancellor

  • Registered
  • 8,969 posts
  • LocationDawson, Georgia
Joined: Jun 07, 2004

Posted 26 August 2011 - 04:19 PM

Post #5 isn't clear as to the steps taken.
The receiver seems to grab the guide data on a reboot, but stop updating.
What were the steps taken and how long?
This is a "left field", so :shrug:


I cannot speak for the OP, but only from my experience.

Flushing the guide cache data will enable (limited) program data for 2-5 minutes.

If using a DVR, during those 2-5 minutes, you can setup a recording for a program currently showing, or one to begin within the next... we'll say 6 minutes. After that, it won't record anything, even if you set it up to...

~Alan

#35 OFFLINE   P Smith

P Smith

    Mr. FixAnything

  • Registered
  • 20,056 posts
  • LocationMediterranean Sea
Joined: Jul 25, 2002

Posted 26 August 2011 - 05:24 PM

While I'm with Doctor J about basic channels info, I would remind you all - his reports does not including EPG data nor a link between channels and EPG data.




Protected By... spam firewall...And...