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Advice on expanding present system


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26 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   Mojo_Ryzen

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Posted 15 August 2011 - 12:24 PM

I have a "legacy" system: 5 LNB Slimline Dish, OTA antenna, WB68 multiswitch w/ receivers in four rooms on a single (2nd) floor of my house (see attached diagram). The multiswitch sits on the floor, behind my couch, and I've run all the existing wiring through walls and/or drop ceilings. My first floor has no drop ceilings, but I have relatively easy access to all rooms via the basement.

I want to expand to my first floor and add three receivers (one HD DVR and two SD receivers). Would prefer to provide OTA signals on 1st floor (I'll follow Hasan's suggestions on this). Note that MRV is not important to me.

Q1: Should I bother to convert to SWM?
Q2: What additional equipment will I need to expand to 1st floor? e.g. OTA diplexer, Coax lines from WB68 to DVRs.
Q3: If I do it myself, can I get better deals on equipment outside of D* (i.e through 3rd party vendors)? Note that I'm a long time subscriber and D* *may* give me a better than advertised deal on rcvr hardware.
Thanks in advance!

Attached Files


Edited by Mojo_Ryzen, 19 August 2011 - 02:43 PM.
did not realize my "new" system was so old (no SWM)

rgds,
-MR-
HR24-500|HR20-100S; 0x4d1|5LNB Slimline|Dual WB68s
Samsung SIR-S4080R|Sony SAT-T60|Sony SAT-A3|
Sharp LC-60C52U|Onkyo TXSR605B/DS-A2|Polk RM6750
Harmony 880|Netgear XAV1004 Powerline Ethernet
D* subscriber since 1998|Tivo lifetimer|1984 V65 Magna VF1100C

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#2 OFFLINE   Alebob911

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Posted 15 August 2011 - 12:28 PM

So your adding a total of 4 additional tuners. you can cascade another WB68 or buy a WB16 (I think thats the number). Going with SWM will cause issues with your older receivers as they don't support SWM. Depending on your tech level, you should have no problems with this.

#3 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 15 August 2011 - 01:19 PM

If OTA is important to you, I would highly recommend installing an independent OTA system. Diplexing OTA is no longer a comfortable fit with DIRECTV and can only get more uncomfortable as time goes on.

Once you get that out of the way, the decision making should get a lot easier.

Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. -- JFK


#4 OFFLINE   carl6

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Posted 15 August 2011 - 02:17 PM

If you choose to add another WB68, run the two in parallel, don't cascade the second one off the first. Get four dual-port power passing splitters. Run a coax from the dish to the input of one of the splitters, then the outputs from that splitter to the same input on both WB68's. Repeat for the remaining 3 coax. It doesn't matter which coax goes to which input, so long as the two coax from any given splitter go to the same input on both multi-switches.

If your coax runs are very long, you might also need to add a Sonora phase locker/power inserter between the dish and the splitters.

#5 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 15 August 2011 - 02:59 PM

Q1: Should I bother to convert to SWM? ...


As was previously said, SWiM would cause a problem with your three Sony/Samsung legacy receivers, therefore a legacy WB616 (6x16) multi-switch is required as you will need room for 11 tuners in all. However, if you are willing to spend the money on a large WB616 which is usually expensive, you might consider purchasing a SWiM-16 for future conversion and for now simply attach the present WB68 in your diagram to its four legacy ports for now. Then make sure the two new SD receivers you wish to add on the first floor are "D12" models which are SWiM compatible.

... Q2: What additional equipment will I need to expand to 1st floor? e.g. OTA diplexer, Coax lines from WB68 to DVRs.


Depends upon what course you choose in question #1, though diplexing is not possible with a WB68, WB616 or a SWiM with WHDVR service. It is possible on a SWiM without WHDVR, but still not recommended.

... Q3: If I do it myself, can I get better deals on equipment outside of D* (i.e through 3rd party vendors)? Note that I'm a long time subscriber and D* *may* give me a better than advertised deal on rcvr hardware.
Thanks in advance!


As a long time customer, you will likely get a better deal on equipment through DIRECTV as an upgrade.

The problem is that for three new receivers DIRECTV will insist on a professional install and no longer carries the WB616.

For 11 tuners total they will want to install a SWiM-16 and swap out all three of your Sony/Samsung receivers for two R16s and a D12.

And if they go that far you may as well go for WHDVR service as well.

So my recommendation would be to purchase and install a SWiM-16 and connect the WB68 to the legacy ports for the second floor, and buy SWiM capable receivers for the first floor.

#6 OFFLINE   spartanstew

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Posted 15 August 2011 - 04:01 PM

If you choose to add another WB68,


let me know, I might have one.

I'm sure Directv can't wait to get their hands on your unit.

 
Directv customer since 2000

#7 OFFLINE   Mojo_Ryzen

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Posted 15 August 2011 - 04:36 PM

Wow! Thanks for all the GREAT advice!

My plan was to self-install - unless there was a compelling advantage to go to a pro. I also left out the fact that the two 1st floor SD receivers were (almost certainly) going to be a gift. So, I'm fairly certain they will also be legacy units.

I also have an attic office with a PC-tuner that uses rabbit ears for OTA reception. I'm real close to NYC and I get awesome HD broadcast reception on my PC, as well has D*2PC via powerline Ethernet.

... More compelling reasons to stay away from SWM and get an OTA-capable receiver. My frugal nature is leading me to consider the HR20 (via Hasan's advice) for the 1st floor DVR and the dual-WB68 hook-up per Carl6. I'll pm you spartanstew. Thanks again all!
rgds,
-MR-
HR24-500|HR20-100S; 0x4d1|5LNB Slimline|Dual WB68s
Samsung SIR-S4080R|Sony SAT-T60|Sony SAT-A3|
Sharp LC-60C52U|Onkyo TXSR605B/DS-A2|Polk RM6750
Harmony 880|Netgear XAV1004 Powerline Ethernet
D* subscriber since 1998|Tivo lifetimer|1984 V65 Magna VF1100C

#8 OFFLINE   carl6

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Posted 15 August 2011 - 07:25 PM

I also left out the fact that the two 1st floor SD receivers were (almost certainly) going to be a gift. So, I'm fairly certain they will also be legacy units.


And I'm fairly certain you will not be able to activate them on your account. If they do not have Receiver Identification Numbers (RID), you will not be able to use them.

#9 OFFLINE   jdspencer

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Posted 16 August 2011 - 08:59 AM

By adding an HD receiver you may want to rethink not wanting MRV. Having the HD receiver able to stream from the HD DVR is great.

You don't need SWM or DECA to do that, just an ethernet connection between the two using a router.
DirecTV since '96, Waivers for ABC, CBS, NBC, & Fox, HR23-700 & HR24-500/AM21, using ethernet based MRV.

#10 OFFLINE   Mojo_Ryzen

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Posted 16 August 2011 - 12:28 PM

And I'm fairly certain you will not be able to activate them on your account. If they do not have Receiver Identification Numbers (RID), you will not be able to use them.


Hmmm ... Does that mean I need to purchase new activation cards from D*, if I want to activate them? A family member no longer needs them and is gifting them to my daughter.
rgds,
-MR-
HR24-500|HR20-100S; 0x4d1|5LNB Slimline|Dual WB68s
Samsung SIR-S4080R|Sony SAT-T60|Sony SAT-A3|
Sharp LC-60C52U|Onkyo TXSR605B/DS-A2|Polk RM6750
Harmony 880|Netgear XAV1004 Powerline Ethernet
D* subscriber since 1998|Tivo lifetimer|1984 V65 Magna VF1100C

#11 OFFLINE   carl6

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Posted 16 August 2011 - 01:27 PM

Hmmm ... Does that mean I need to purchase new activation cards from D*, if I want to activate them? A family member no longer needs them and is gifting them to my daughter.


It means you won't be able to get cards for them or activate them under any circumstances. In other words, they are boat anchors. (If they do not have a receiver ID number.)

If they DO have RID's, then you will have to get new access cards in order to activate them. That will cost you about $20 each.

#12 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 16 August 2011 - 01:54 PM

It means you won't be able to get cards for them or activate them under any circumstances. In other words, they are boat anchors. (If they do not have a receiver ID number.)

If they DO have RID's, then you will have to get new access cards in order to activate them. That will cost you about $20 each.


Yep;

This policy started sometime last year. The only exception for activating an old non-RID receiver nowadays is if it has been active on your account in the past and still has the same access card it had when taken out of service.

See the thread here;

http://www.dbstalk.c...g receivers RID

#13 OFFLINE   Mojo_Ryzen

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Posted 16 August 2011 - 02:34 PM

It means you won't be able to get cards for them or activate them under any circumstances. In other words, they are boat anchors. (If they do not have a receiver ID number.)

If they DO have RID's, then you will have to get new access cards in order to activate them. That will cost you about $20 each.


UPDATE: She has the original boxes. RID numbers are written on the boxes. Do 'ya think I'll have a problem paying D* $40 and activating with two new cards? My money's been good with them since 1998.
rgds,
-MR-
HR24-500|HR20-100S; 0x4d1|5LNB Slimline|Dual WB68s
Samsung SIR-S4080R|Sony SAT-T60|Sony SAT-A3|
Sharp LC-60C52U|Onkyo TXSR605B/DS-A2|Polk RM6750
Harmony 880|Netgear XAV1004 Powerline Ethernet
D* subscriber since 1998|Tivo lifetimer|1984 V65 Magna VF1100C

#14 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 16 August 2011 - 03:11 PM

UPDATE: She has the original boxes. RID numbers are written on the boxes. Do 'ya think I'll have a problem paying D* $40 and activating with two new cards? My money's been good with them since 1998.


Should be no problem activating them then. For assurance though, when you call DIRECTV "politely" insist on speaking with the "Access Card Distribution Team" to arrange the purchase of new access cards and for future activation once you receive them.

Even if the first level CSR insist they can handle it, respectfully decline and ask for the ACDT.

Good luck ..

#15 OFFLINE   carl6

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Posted 16 August 2011 - 04:20 PM

Yes, if they have RID's you should be able to activate them.

One other word of caution though, some of the older receiver models (such as those you are getting) cannot handle all of the current guide information. They should be fine for watching most of the "normal" channels, but could have issues with some of the sports packages, sonic tap channels, etc. I don't recall exactly what does and does not work with legacy receivers, but there are some things that don't work.

#16 OFFLINE   Mojo_Ryzen

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Posted 19 August 2011 - 12:50 PM

Thanks again for all the great advice! I have another question.

If you choose to add another WB68, run the two in parallel, don't cascade the second one off the first. Get four dual-port power passing splitters. Run a coax from the dish to the input of one of the splitters, then the outputs from that splitter to the same input on both WB68's. Repeat for the remaining 3 coax. It doesn't matter which coax goes to which input, so long as the two coax from any given splitter go to the same input on both multi-switches.

If your coax runs are very long, you might also need to add a Sonora phase locker/power inserter between the dish and the splitters.

I started seriously looking into this and I've seen two conflicting posts with regard to the splitters. One says, "Make sure the splitters used only pass power on one leg." Another says DC must pass thru both. It seems like the configuration carl6 describes uses the splitter with DC power passing to one port only. Why? Because providing inputs to the WB68s, as described, will ensure that DC will pass thru the required 13V and 18V ports. Further, since the splitters only pass DC on one port, I won't have to worry about receivers with differing DC voltages feeding back, through the splitters, to other receivers. Could someone please confirm this? Thanks in advance.

Also, fyi, the only D* csr I spoke with told me the HR20s are no longer available from D*. She told me to try ebay or craiglist.
rgds,
-MR-
HR24-500|HR20-100S; 0x4d1|5LNB Slimline|Dual WB68s
Samsung SIR-S4080R|Sony SAT-T60|Sony SAT-A3|
Sharp LC-60C52U|Onkyo TXSR605B/DS-A2|Polk RM6750
Harmony 880|Netgear XAV1004 Powerline Ethernet
D* subscriber since 1998|Tivo lifetimer|1984 V65 Magna VF1100C

#17 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 19 August 2011 - 12:57 PM

Thanks again for all the great advice! I have another question.


I started seriously looking into this and I've seen two conflicting posts with regard to the splitters. One says, "Make sure the splitters used only pass power on one leg." Another says DC must pass thru both. It seems like the configuration carl6 describes uses the splitter with DC power passing to one port only. Why? Because providing inputs to the WB68s, as described, will ensure that DC will pass thru the required 13V and 18V ports. Further, since the splitters only pass DC on one port, I won't have to worry about receivers with differing DC voltages feeding back, through the splitters, to other receivers. Could someone please confirm this? Thanks in advance.

Also, fyi, the only D* csr I spoke with told me the HR21s are no longer available from D*. She told me to try ebay or craiglist.

If the splitters don't pass DC on both legs, then you can get 771 errors on the switch connected to the blocked leg.
If one switch is powered, like a SWM8 or the old WB616, then you can use a single leg power passing splitter by connecting the powered switch to the passing leg.
WB68s aren't powered switches, so both legs must be power passing.
A.K.A VOS

#18 OFFLINE   Shades228

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Posted 19 August 2011 - 12:57 PM

Thanks again for all the great advice! I have another question.


I started seriously looking into this and I've seen two conflicting posts with regard to the splitters. One says, "Make sure the splitters used only pass power on one leg." Another says DC must pass thru both. It seems like the configuration carl6 describes uses the splitter with DC power passing to one port only. Why? Because providing inputs to the WB68s, as described, will ensure that DC will pass thru the required 13V and 18V ports. Further, since the splitters only pass DC on one port, I won't have to worry about receivers with differing DC voltages feeding back, through the splitters, to other receivers. Could someone please confirm this? Thanks in advance.

Also, fyi, the only D* csr I spoke with told me the HR20s are no longer available from D*. She told me to try ebay or craiglist.


VOS covered it.

#19 OFFLINE   Mojo_Ryzen

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Posted 19 August 2011 - 01:38 PM

If the splitters don't pass DC on both legs, then you can get 771 errors on the switch connected to the blocked leg.
If one switch is powered, like a SWM8 or the old WB616, then you can use a single leg power passing splitter by connecting the powered switch to the passing leg.
WB68s aren't powered switches, so both legs must be power passing.


OK. Thanks!
rgds,
-MR-
HR24-500|HR20-100S; 0x4d1|5LNB Slimline|Dual WB68s
Samsung SIR-S4080R|Sony SAT-T60|Sony SAT-A3|
Sharp LC-60C52U|Onkyo TXSR605B/DS-A2|Polk RM6750
Harmony 880|Netgear XAV1004 Powerline Ethernet
D* subscriber since 1998|Tivo lifetimer|1984 V65 Magna VF1100C

#20 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 20 August 2011 - 09:30 AM

For me personally though; :)

While mainly needed for very long cable runs between the dish and a non-powered multi-switch (or switches). I still prefer the use of a "Polarity Locker" whenever paralleling passive multi-switches like the WB68 and not have to concern myself about DC power passing on the slitters or need burden the IRDs with powering the LNB up through the multi-switches.

http://www.wiredatho...al-Current.html

Just an additional consideration you might be interested in ...




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