Jump to content


Welcome to DBSTalk


Sign In 

Create Account
Welcome to DBSTalk, like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community, but don't worry this is a simple free process that requires minimal information for you to signup. Be a part of DBSTalk by signing in or creating an account.
  • Start new topics and reply to others
  • Subscribe to topics and forums to get email updates
  • Get your own profile page and make new friends
  • Send personal messages to other members.
 
Guest Message by DevFuse

Photo
- - - - -

in need of a complicated installation


  • Please log in to reply
35 replies to this topic

#21 OFFLINE   fleckrj

fleckrj

    Icon

  • Registered
  • 1,013 posts
  • LocationCary, NC
Joined: Sep 04, 2009

Posted 18 August 2011 - 12:05 PM

The OP's problem isn't elevation, but trees anyway.


Trees and elevation are related. I live in a relatively wooded area, but I have no problem with LOS to 99, 101, and 103. 119, on the other hand is low enough that it is blocked by trees that are no taller and no closer to my dish than the trees I aim over to see 99, 101, and 103.

...Ads Help To Support This SIte...

#22 ONLINE   veryoldschool

veryoldschool

    Lifetime Achiever

  • Moderators
  • 41,358 posts
Joined: Dec 09, 2006

Posted 18 August 2011 - 12:21 PM

Trees and elevation are related. I live in a relatively wooded area, but I have no problem with LOS to 99, 101, and 103. 119, on the other hand is low enough that it is blocked by trees that are no taller and no closer to my dish than the trees I aim over to see 99, 101, and 103.

Which is similar to my situation with the 99 SAT.
A.K.A VOS

#23 OFFLINE   TBoneit

TBoneit

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 2,246 posts
Joined: Jul 27, 2006

Posted 18 August 2011 - 01:02 PM

i guess according to tech24218, they only want to do the easy jobs that dont take much effort, which is pretty much what i expected


My best guess is that they have learned that going non standard and making things work always comes back to bite them.

They put in the 3LNB since the customer says I don't need the stuff I'll lose. Then a little later the customer call D* and says why can't I get ......
Chargeback

I've found out through life experience that anytime you go non standard or go that long extra mile that a customer wants they either go cheap on you or complain, complain, complain after following you around slowing things down since they want explanations of everything being done.

Where I am now We require a deposit on computer repairs. I've got three sitting on the shelf now where I took them against my better judgement when they claimed not to have the deposit. They'll still be sitting there in 6 months.

Call DirecTV and tell them their cheapness by going to flat rate installs is killing your install. Don't blame the installer for not wanting to spend a whole day on something that will most likely become a charge back and net them 0$.

Blame DirecTV for the system they chose. Then if you still want their product find a local installer and pay the price to have it done like you want.
Remember when your kids were the TV set's remote control?

#24 ONLINE   veryoldschool

veryoldschool

    Lifetime Achiever

  • Moderators
  • 41,358 posts
Joined: Dec 09, 2006

Posted 18 August 2011 - 01:23 PM

I've found out through life experience that anytime you go non standard...

"I've found" it's best if I do it myself. Then I have no one to blame but... ;)
A.K.A VOS

#25 OFFLINE   WestDC

WestDC

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 1,475 posts
Joined: Feb 09, 2008

Posted 18 August 2011 - 01:59 PM

Yup,

PLUS...after a few times working for this one company I found myself getting the same......"damn, you are as bad as the other guy they sent yesterday...why can't they send someone who knows what they are doing...?

You are in a dark deep forest with NO chance for a LOS. The company sent a second opinion guy (me). When it was obvious I just phoned it in...and eventually stopped working for the company.

Joe


10-4

"Let's Have Some Fun!"

#26 OFFLINE   joe diamond

joe diamond

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 3,071 posts
Joined: Feb 28, 2007

Posted 18 August 2011 - 03:47 PM

My best guess is that they have learned that going non standard and making things work always comes back to bite them.

They put in the 3LNB since the customer says I don't need the stuff I'll lose. Then a little later the customer call D* and says why can't I get ......
Chargeback

I've found out through life experience that anytime you go non standard or go that long extra mile that a customer wants they either go cheap on you or complain, complain, complain after following you around slowing things down since they want explanations of everything being done.

Where I am now We require a deposit on computer repairs. I've got three sitting on the shelf now where I took them against my better judgement when they claimed not to have the deposit. They'll still be sitting there in 6 months.

Call DirecTV and tell them their cheapness by going to flat rate installs is killing your install. Don't blame the installer for not wanting to spend a whole day on something that will most likely become a charge back and net them 0$.

Blame DirecTV for the system they chose. Then if you still want their product find a local installer and pay the price to have it done like you want.


Yup,

I have a customer who insisted I use a mast location very close to a tree instead of the clear shot that could be seen from the street. As the tree grew she started calling to get me to move the dish.

Relocate dish = $100.00. I don't even answer the phone. She calls every time it rains.

Joe

#27 OFFLINE   tech24218

tech24218

    AllStar

  • Registered
  • 70 posts
Joined: Aug 12, 2009

Posted 18 August 2011 - 08:41 PM

My best guess is that they have learned that going non standard and making things work always comes back to bite them.



I've found out through life experience that anytime you go non standard or go that long extra mile that a customer wants they either go cheap on you or complain, complain, complain after following you around slowing things down since they want explanations of everything being done.


.


Bingo!

Don't call me lazy. If an odu can be installed on brick or a pole mount and it has to be tucked in the smallest of windows I'll do it. But only if its a building or another stationary object that I'm dodging. But trying to find the perfect spot in between tree branches drilling into asphalt shingles is just dumb. As an installer I am just asking to get screwed over because when I'm the tech who says I'm sorry you have no line of sight I'm lazy. When I do what you're requesting six months down the road I'm the dumbass who pointed your dish into a tree and ruined your roof.

Granted there are some terrible techs out there. Lazy, sloppy, half-hearted jerks that don't care about the quality of their work. But don't assume your tech is lazy because he didn't drag out a ladder to show you what he already knew.

If I lose a job to no line of sight then I get a call back from my local office saying "hey we got a move up for ya!" Which means I get to spend more time driving not getting paid. Possibly not having the equipment for the new job . Or the job I lost was an estimated 120 minute install and I get a 240 minute install in return meaning I get home even later that day.

I don't know why I am so upset with the OP's take on this situation. Normally I just troll and lurk on this board but their is something about the tone of his writing that suggests that he is the guy who expects the tech to go over and beyond the call of duty and won't return the favor.
HR22-100 RCA Scrennium 50"
R16-300 32" Toshiba
D11-500 @ lake House

The Best Directv Ad
http://www.facebook....v=1340867931805

#28 OFFLINE   joe diamond

joe diamond

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 3,071 posts
Joined: Feb 28, 2007

Posted 19 August 2011 - 03:53 AM

Bingo!

Don't call me lazy. If an odu can be installed on brick or a pole mount and it has to be tucked in the smallest of windows I'll do it. But only if its a building or another stationary object that I'm dodging. But trying to find the perfect spot in between tree branches drilling into asphalt shingles is just dumb. As an installer I am just asking to get screwed over because when I'm the tech who says I'm sorry you have no line of sight I'm lazy. When I do what you're requesting six months down the road I'm the dumbass who pointed your dish into a tree and ruined your roof.

Granted there are some terrible techs out there. Lazy, sloppy, half-hearted jerks that don't care about the quality of their work. But don't assume your tech is lazy because he didn't drag out a ladder to show you what he already knew.

If I lose a job to no line of sight then I get a call back from my local office saying "hey we got a move up for ya!" Which means I get to spend more time driving not getting paid. Possibly not having the equipment for the new job . Or the job I lost was an estimated 120 minute install and I get a 240 minute install in return meaning I get home even later that day.

I don't know why I am so upset with the OP's take on this situation. Normally I just troll and lurk on this board but their is something about the tone of his writing that suggests that he is the guy who expects the tech to go over and beyond the call of duty and won't return the favor.


24218,

About that estimated job time? Who does the estimate and what does it mean?

Contractors say...too far...it is now dark...out of service. Employees announce how long it took after it is done.


Joe

#29 OFFLINE   RobertE

RobertE

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 8,024 posts
Joined: Jun 09, 2006

Posted 19 August 2011 - 04:58 AM

Every job componet has a time duration associated with it. Example. Ka/Ku ODU is set for 75 minutes. IRD Ka/Ku is 25 minutes. So 1 box HD would have a scheduled duration of 100 minutes. These times are set by DirecTv. It's supposed to be used by whoever is doing the routing to help towards avoiding overbooking. Good on paper, in practice...it needs some work.
Have an Error or Diagnostic code? Find out what it means and how to fix it here: Click Me
Having issues with your HD locals? Report them here: Click Me
Is your receiver compatible with MRV? Check Here

#30 OFFLINE   joe diamond

joe diamond

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 3,071 posts
Joined: Feb 28, 2007

Posted 19 August 2011 - 11:45 AM

Every job componet has a time duration associated with it. Example. Ka/Ku ODU is set for 75 minutes. IRD Ka/Ku is 25 minutes. So 1 box HD would have a scheduled duration of 100 minutes. These times are set by DirecTv. It's supposed to be used by whoever is doing the routing to help towards avoiding overbooking. Good on paper, in practice...it needs some work.


I thought it could be something like that,

As long as it is a routing aid. That is different from anything that effects compensation. With every office I worked in I had to bring up the same questions:......Do you own a map? This route has six hours of driving built
into it. You go drive it!

No Line of Sight means it cannot be done with or without
extra time or money. How long should it take to cut down
the neighbor's trees and build a tower?

Maybe I am a little suspicious of stuff that looks like a hand in the pocket...again.

Joe

#31 OFFLINE   cabletech

cabletech

    Legend

  • Registered
  • 256 posts
Joined: Jan 20, 2011

Posted 19 August 2011 - 02:47 PM

''About that estimated job time? Who does the estimate and what does it mean?''

Meany years ago, back in the cable days, a survey was done on what an average time a install/service call took to do. This system was set to a 'points' base, (IE 32 points=30min). There was no drive time factored into a tech's route, it was all set that the route had a TOTAL of 190-200 pts = 6 hours JOB TIME, NO TRAVEL.

Now you have to remember that the guy that started DTV< was the guy that stared TCI Cable and had been involed with other cable company's before that and this is when this survey took place.

Along with the points survey, the survey also took into count what the price per job was worth to the tech, this included BOTH a company tech and a contractor. This is how the pay system still works.

When Mr. M started DTV, he carryed over ALL the dispatch infor with him, to include the works, how you where routed, the computer data base, the pay rate, the whole works.

To this day, the system is set on this points per day routing and NOT HOURS.

Ask me how I know? I have worked for the cable systems since 1970 and was in on the transfer from a 'local' cable to TCI and was in on the dispatch training that took place back in the day and I have worked with DTV since 1995. I have also worked with Cox, Viacomm, Charter and Comcast cable systems.

SO< BEEN THERE< DONE THAT<HAVE THE SHIRT

#32 OFFLINE   joe diamond

joe diamond

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 3,071 posts
Joined: Feb 28, 2007

Posted 19 August 2011 - 07:49 PM

''About that estimated job time? Who does the estimate and what does it mean?''

Meany years ago, back in the cable days, a survey was done on what an average time a install/service call took to do. This system was set to a 'points' base, (IE 32 points=30min). There was no drive time factored into a tech's route, it was all set that the route had a TOTAL of 190-200 pts = 6 hours JOB TIME, NO TRAVEL.

Now you have to remember that the guy that started DTV< was the guy that stared TCI Cable and had been involed with other cable company's before that and this is when this survey took place.

Along with the points survey, the survey also took into count what the price per job was worth to the tech, this included BOTH a company tech and a contractor. This is how the pay system still works.

When Mr. M started DTV, he carryed over ALL the dispatch infor with him, to include the works, how you where routed, the computer data base, the pay rate, the whole works.

To this day, the system is set on this points per day routing and NOT HOURS.

Ask me how I know? I have worked for the cable systems since 1970 and was in on the transfer from a 'local' cable to TCI and was in on the dispatch training that took place back in the day and I have worked with DTV since 1995. I have also worked with Cox, Viacomm, Charter and Comcast cable systems.

SO< BEEN THERE< DONE THAT<HAVE THE SHIRT


I have seen that too,

I guess the reason it doesn't work is that with cable you can go from pole to pole along the "route" until you run out of poles.

With Directv there is no "route." You start the day either at home with a faxed pile of work orders and start for the first scheduled job..or sitting around a warehouse waiting for eq & WOs.......so it goes.
So every tech is either running behind........faxes don't arrive until noon, no equipment, long waits etc..... so there goes the morning. OR with several NLOS deals in a known forest....you are done early and ahead but not paid anything.

The silly team player will then hit the road way the hell out of his area, be late, be back charged and quit when he sees his checks. Then he tries cable.

Joe

Edited by joe diamond, 19 August 2011 - 07:51 PM.
typo


#33 OFFLINE   wallfishman

wallfishman

    Icon

  • Registered
  • 509 posts
Joined: Dec 31, 2008

Posted 20 August 2011 - 09:17 AM

I have seen that too,

I guess the reason it doesn't work is that with cable you can go from pole to pole along the "route" until you run out of poles.

With Directv there is no "route." You start the day either at home with a faxed pile of work orders and start for the first scheduled job..or sitting around a warehouse waiting for eq & WOs.......so it goes.
So every tech is either running behind........faxes don't arrive until noon, no equipment, long waits etc..... so there goes the morning. OR with several NLOS deals in a known forest....you are done early and ahead but not paid anything.

The silly team player will then hit the road way the hell out of his area, be late, be back charged and quit when he sees his checks. Then he tries cable.

Joe

Joe I honestly think the whole world has changed since you were an installer. faxes ? what are they? I get an email with a pdf file usually at 7 or so the night before. i have to hit a button that says print and they magically appear. next morning we log into siebel and they are all on our iphone or handheld whatever your company uses. we activate boxes, close jobs, do whatever right off our iphone. look at the sattelites with dishpointer right off iphone. i get my equiptment for a whole week. we run short sometimes and you have to waste an hour getting something or having it brought out to you. Ive seen my boss face to face maybe 5 times in the last year. and all this goes on in the same eastern shore you worked in. same hillbillies with 10 cars in the yard, just a streamlined installation.

#34 OFFLINE   joe diamond

joe diamond

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 3,071 posts
Joined: Feb 28, 2007

Posted 20 August 2011 - 10:29 AM

Joe I honestly think the whole world has changed since you were an installer. faxes ? what are they? I get an email with a pdf file usually at 7 or so the night before. i have to hit a button that says print and they magically appear. next morning we log into siebel and they are all on our iphone or handheld whatever your company uses. we activate boxes, close jobs, do whatever right off our iphone. look at the sattelites with dishpointer right off iphone. i get my equiptment for a whole week. we run short sometimes and you have to waste an hour getting something or having it brought out to you. Ive seen my boss face to face maybe 5 times in the last year. and all this goes on in the same eastern shore you worked in. same hillbillies with 10 cars in the yard, just a streamlined installation.


You could be right,

All those things were promised........so they are in place? I still see the same rates so I haven't been tempted to give it another try.

I did get news that two of the crooks who owe me money have died...without paying anyone. Things change, maybe improve.

Joe

#35 OFFLINE   cabletech

cabletech

    Legend

  • Registered
  • 256 posts
Joined: Jan 20, 2011

Posted 20 August 2011 - 04:30 PM

joe When I talk about a route with cable company's, I am not talking about going from pole to pole. I am talking about showing up at the warehouse at 5:50-6 am and standing around until some super deciedes to give you the work orders (some where around 7) then go to the clerk and get the needed boxes and any other thing you may need and then drive thru the major part of town to go 20 miles to first customer by 8 am, arrive at 8:45 then do a complete rewire of the house and hope to be 15 miles the other direction by 9:30. Doing DTV, If the installer lives within a45 min. of the wharehouse, they are required to show up at 6:30-7am every morning to be issued ALL 'high dollar' items, (recievers, swm lnb's, swm8-16, and complete antenna kits),
then maybe get your work order be 8am to drive 2.5 hrs to first cust and be there before 9am. All 'small' parts are ordered and truck stocked once a week. If the installer lives over the 45 mins away, then he can do a once a week major stock order and whare house in his garage and hope that he has enough equipment for the week.

#36 OFFLINE   joe diamond

joe diamond

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 3,071 posts
Joined: Feb 28, 2007

Posted 20 August 2011 - 10:23 PM

joe When I talk about a route with cable company's, I am not talking about going from pole to pole. I am talking about showing up at the warehouse at 5:50-6 am and standing around until some super deciedes to give you the work orders (some where around 7) then go to the clerk and get the needed boxes and any other thing you may need and then drive thru the major part of town to go 20 miles to first customer by 8 am, arrive at 8:45 then do a complete rewire of the house and hope to be 15 miles the other direction by 9:30. Doing DTV, If the installer lives within a45 min. of the wharehouse, they are required to show up at 6:30-7am every morning to be issued ALL 'high dollar' items, (recievers, swm lnb's, swm8-16, and complete antenna kits),
then maybe get your work order be 8am to drive 2.5 hrs to first cust and be there before 9am. All 'small' parts are ordered and truck stocked once a week. If the installer lives over the 45 mins away, then he can do a once a week major stock order and whare house in his garage and hope that he has enough equipment for the week.



Ther ya go!

With a cable "plant" the system branches out and routing is easier, not exactly pole to pole. But there is a sense of various sections where the tech can efficiently go. The "route" is composed that way...one would hope.

Driving 2.5 miles without compensation is not in my vocabulary without extra money. I offer to cover three counties. They still insist $65.00 for a first receiver and $20.00 for each additional is great pay. You cannot drive 2.5 hrs and work for two hours for $65.00 /$20.00.

Also I have done enough phone work to understand running cat5...with verification of every fitting...I don't see anything about running whole home systems running on cat5...is that FREE?

But the Directv "route" has nothing to do with a run of cables with a for sure connection at the end of the trip./ How far can you drive to a NLOS?

Joe




spam firewall