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Help!! CC&R Restrictions in BEND, OREGON


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28 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   buckZor

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 06:30 PM

Relocated by my job from Portland, Oregon to Bend, Oregon. Found my dream house, I'm halfway through Escrow and I've come to find out that there are a bunch of CC&R Restrictions in place by the ARC for where I live. I have to 1) PAINT the dish in order to blend into the Roof or Siding where it is attached 2) DISHES OVER 18 INCHES IN SIZE ARE NOT PERMITTED!!! :mad: 3) Location must be inconspicuous and pre-approved by the ARC prior to placement.

So.... can anyone PLEASE give me information on the local installation company for DirecTV in the Bend/Central Oregon area? Hopefully they've bumped into this ARC before. And is there any hope for a smaller HD dish that is 18 inches or smaller?? NO WAY I am going low def, I have all HD equipment and I just can't live with low def. :nono2: :nono2: :nono2:

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#2 OFFLINE   Tom Robertson

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 06:46 PM

While the ARC can make suggestions they can not prohibit any dish that is less than a meter in size. (That is why the DIRECTV and Dish dishes are right at that limit.)

The ARC can not require permission ahead of time.

The ARC can ask you to put it a less conspicuous location but only if that does not increase the cost prohibitively.

Don't know about painting rules, I'm sure that is covered by the cost increase and suitable reception clauses. (Methinks a badly painted dish is uglier than a normal dish, myself.)

The pertinent FCC site: http://www.fcc.gov/g...on-devices-rule

Cheers,
Tom

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My real treasures: 5 Grandchildren - S, D, M, M, C ; Now 5! Great-Grandtibbers - B, H, J, A, and M (Born 7/31/2011)


#3 OFFLINE   buckZor

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 07:00 PM

While the ARC can make suggestions they can not prohibit any dish that is less than a meter in size. (That is why the DIRECTV and Dish dishes are right at that limit.)


Is the HD dish of this size? DTV over the phone said the HD dish is over 18-inches. I'm not up on my metric conversion. And what are you telling me, that the ARC is over stepping its bounds here? Do I have to have a legal battle to get DirecTV? :confused:

#4 OFFLINE   dsw2112

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 07:05 PM

Is the HD dish of this size? DTV over the phone said the HD dish is over 18-inches. I'm not up on my metric conversion. And what are you telling me, that the ARC is over stepping its bounds here? Do I have to have a legal battle to get DirecTV? :confused:


You might wanna read this: http://www.dbstalk.c...ad.php?t=192544

But yes, the ARC is over stepping is bounds.
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#5 OFFLINE   Tom Robertson

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 07:10 PM

Is the HD dish of this size? DTV over the phone said the HD dish is over 18-inches. I'm not up on my metric conversion. And what are you telling me, that the ARC is over stepping its bounds here? Do I have to have a legal battle to get DirecTV? :confused:


ARC is very much overstepping its bounds. Almost completely in every way.

Is this a shared building or wholly owned by you house? If you own the house, I'd call DIRECTV, they will install no matter what. Then you can deal with ARC after the fact. :)

One meter is roughly 39 inches plus a smidge. The DIRECTV dishes for the lower 48 are less than that size so ARCs, HOAs, and others can't restrict you just based on size.

Your ARC might be able to ask for a notification that you are installing but they absolutely can not even hint at requiring their permission. They can not require you to wait at all. You install tomorrow if you want.

I do suggest some common sense. If you can find a spot in your backyard (or back roof) that works just as well as a frontyard location go with the back. That will help maintain the value of your neighborhood and make them happier. :)

Cheers,
Tom

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My real treasures: 5 Grandchildren - S, D, M, M, C ; Now 5! Great-Grandtibbers - B, H, J, A, and M (Born 7/31/2011)


#6 OFFLINE   r028806

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 07:11 PM

Visit here for OTARD regs http://www.fcc.gov/g...atellite-dishes

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#7 OFFLINE   buckZor

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 08:20 PM

ARC is very much overstepping its bounds. Almost completely in every way.

Is this a shared building or wholly owned by you house? If you own the house, I'd call DIRECTV, they will install no matter what. Then you can deal with ARC after the fact. :)


This is a home I am purchasing. I'll try working with them, I don't want to be a pariah in the neighborhood, but hopefully I can use these FCC rules to convince them that I can have a dish OVER 18 INCHES for heavens sake. I refuse to go low def.

#8 OFFLINE   litzdog911

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 08:34 PM

See the tips in Lord Vader's thread here ....
http://www.dbstalk.c...ad.php?t=192544

A properly worded letter should keep you in good graces with the HOA. If they get stupid, the FCC can intercede. You're on solid ground!
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#9 OFFLINE   Tom Robertson

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 08:47 PM

This is a home I am purchasing. I'll try working with them, I don't want to be a pariah in the neighborhood, but hopefully I can use these FCC rules to convince them that I can have a dish OVER 18 INCHES for heavens sake. I refuse to go low def.


And you have every right to stay with DIRECTV and HD. :)

Good luck,
Tom

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My real treasures: 5 Grandchildren - S, D, M, M, C ; Now 5! Great-Grandtibbers - B, H, J, A, and M (Born 7/31/2011)


#10 OFFLINE   mini1

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 09:45 PM

According to FCC regulations, all the CC&R regulations you posted, except requiring you paint your dish are..... illegal. They can require the paint. I would start by sending them a certified letter letting them know of your intentions to install a "satellite television antenna" that conforms to FCC OTARD. See if you get a response.
If they respond and throw all their (illegal) rules back into your face, you can then threaten to either have them allow it and drop their case (send them the rules), or you can tell them that they can deal with what amounts to an FCC lawsuit filed on your behalf....and remind them that you will be on the winning end. Often times, the only way to get anything done in these highly restrictive commando style communities is to be highly aggressive and threaten legal action. The other option is to find another place to live and be HOA/COA/CCR free.

Right now, you should go out and look around the neighborhood. See what others have done. This may be an old rule that they haven't enforced in 20 years, so you may be freaking out about nothing.

#11 OFFLINE   trh

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 05:30 AM

Right now, you should go out and look around the neighborhood. See what others have done. This may be an old rule that they haven't enforced in 20 years, so you may be freaking out about nothing.

+1

If not ( ^^ ), print out the OTARD, highlight the sections covering pre-approvals, dish size and dish location and give that to your ARC/HOA and see what they say. You can also Google "FCC OTARD" and you'll fine hundreds of law firms/property management companies who will confirm this; another good source to possibly convince your ARC/HOA that their rules are illegal.

They can't stop you from installing your dish on your exclusively own property; if it gets to that point, you file a petition with the FCC and they nicely inform your ARC/HOA that their regulations are illegal.

If possible (line of sight and cost issues), do have your dish installed where it is less conspicuous.

Good luck. Keep us informed.

#12 OFFLINE   texasbrit

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 07:41 AM

Just to add to this, and echoing some of the other posts. I've been on the board of my HOA for several years, and we got a specific legal briefing on this. (I am going to assume, by the way, you are not in a designated national historic district, where the rules are different).

First, as posted, the CC&Rs as written are illegal and therefore unenforceable (except the one about the paint - the FCC has ruled that an HOA is allowed to require you to paint the dish so it "fits in" with the surroundings.) Preapproval cannot be required, you can put the dish on your own owned property wherever you need to get a signal (although the HOA is allowed to express a PREFERENCE) and as posted, the max dish size is defined by the FCC and the Slimline 3 or 5 both meet the spec.

Second, as also mentioned, the rules might be old. In my HOA, the CC&Rs were written when the development started, and there is a clause in them to say they can't be changed without 70% of the homeowners agreeing. I don't know about your HOA, but in mine it has proven impossible to get 70% of the homeowners to respond to anything, with either agreement or disagreement. And I mean you need 70% of the homeowners, not just 70% of those who show for any meeting you might call. That means that in many areas, including this one, we are stuck with rules that are not enforceable, but can't be changed.

#13 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 08:05 AM

The ARC can not require permission ahead of time.

They can require approval if the approval process doesn't delay or increase the cost of the installation.

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#14 OFFLINE   buckZor

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 08:42 AM

Does anyone know who the Home Service company for Bend, Oregon is? and how to contact them directly? DTV won't tell me. I think talking to them first and getting a seasoned installer in this area would be in my best interest. Should I post another thread on the Home Service company topic?

#15 OFFLINE   mini1

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 10:59 AM

Does anyone know who the Home Service company for Bend, Oregon is? and how to contact them directly? DTV won't tell me. I think talking to them first and getting a seasoned installer in this area would be in my best interest. Should I post another thread on the Home Service company topic?


An installer (generally) isn't going to know anything about FCC regulations. The only thing an installer will do for you is to complete a site survey.

What you are being told here is correct. Check on the FCC's website if you like to confirm.

The other option not mentioned is just to go ahead and install the system and see if they come after you. As I said, the only thing they can make you do is paint the dish. If they pursue further, file an FCC petition and that will get their attention and also stop them from taking any sort of action against you while the petition is pending. Believe me, if you get to the point of petition.... you will win. I know, because I filed one earlier this year and won against my HOA. The HOA actually dropped the case as soon as the petition was filed and settled with me.

#16 OFFLINE   Tom Robertson

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 12:34 PM

They can require approval if the approval process doesn't delay or increase the cost of the installation.


Not from what has been reported in Lord Vaders thread.

Cheers,
Tom

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My real treasures: 5 Grandchildren - S, D, M, M, C ; Now 5! Great-Grandtibbers - B, H, J, A, and M (Born 7/31/2011)


#17 OFFLINE   trh

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 12:41 PM

They can require approval if the approval process doesn't delay or increase the cost of the installation.

they can require notification, not approval (unless in a designated historical area or a safety issue).

#18 OFFLINE   trh

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 12:45 PM

Buckzor - you can call the FCC at 888.225.5322 to answer any additional questions. number from the OTARD web page.

#19 OFFLINE   texasbrit

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 02:18 PM

they can require notification, not approval (unless in a designated historical area or a safety issue).


Correct, they can ask for notification but they can't ask for approval...

#20 OFFLINE   ohjustinaz

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 09:05 PM

Relocated by my job from Portland, Oregon to Bend, Oregon. Found my dream house, I'm halfway through Escrow and I've come to find out that there are a bunch of CC&R Restrictions in place by the ARC for where I live. I have to 1) PAINT the dish in order to blend into the Roof or Siding where it is attached 2) DISHES OVER 18 INCHES IN SIZE ARE NOT PERMITTED!!! :mad: 3) Location must be inconspicuous and pre-approved by the ARC prior to placement.

So.... can anyone PLEASE give me information on the local installation company for DirecTV in the Bend/Central Oregon area? Hopefully they've bumped into this ARC before. And is there any hope for a smaller HD dish that is 18 inches or smaller?? NO WAY I am going low def, I have all HD equipment and I just can't live with low def. :nono2: :nono2: :nono2:

Try checking with the FCC. Arizona HOA's used to ban satellite receivers. After much ado it was determined that they can not interfere with communications devices. There are no longer rules. My HOA states the dish can not be in plain sight. My neighbors mounted it right outside my living room window. I asked the property management co. They said they can't do anything as it would violate Federal Laws.




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