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Detroit Lions have the best record in football!

hawaii thr22

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#61 OFFLINE   Tom Robertson

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 10:52 PM

1. Schwartz might have come off as a bit foolish, but Harbaugh came off worse. It's understandable to want to confront someone that acts like an idiot. Less understandablefor the idiot.

2. He did not apologize.


Schwartz looks the fool for chasing Harbaugh and persisting. If he felt he was pushed aside and heard an expletive, he should have let it go. At most asked for a clarification. Not pressed, pressed, pressed for fight.

You are correct, Harbaugh didn't apologize. He did take blame.

All in all, sounds like a lot of mountain building out of simple human misunderstandings. Unfortunate, especially since both teams are doing so much better than last year.

Cheers,
Tom

Go Packers!

My real treasures: 5 Grandchildren - S, D, M, M, C ; Now 5! Great-Grandtibbers - B, H, J, A, and M (Born 7/31/2011)


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#62 OFFLINE   Laxguy

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 11:07 PM

1. Schwartz might have come off as a bit foolish, but Harbaugh came off worse. It's understandable to want to confront someone that acts like an idiot. Less understandablefor the idiot.

2. He did not apologize.


Just what did Harbaugh do?
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#63 OFFLINE   Tom Robertson

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 11:19 PM

He said he shook his hand too hard and slapped him on the back, perhaps too exuberantly.

He said he was shoved aside and, perhaps, cursed at. (At one point he sounded uncertain if it was a curse.)

He said he was to blame, but didn't apologize.

He said...

Cheers (I say) :)
Tom

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My real treasures: 5 Grandchildren - S, D, M, M, C ; Now 5! Great-Grandtibbers - B, H, J, A, and M (Born 7/31/2011)


#64 OFFLINE   spartanstew

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Posted 17 October 2011 - 06:34 AM

Just what did Harbaugh do?


I think Bill Cower said it best:

”I think Jim [Harbaugh] has a lot to learn,” Cowher said of an incident that nearly resulted in an end-zone brawl between the two head coaches. “You just don’t do that. I understand his excitement and everything, but there’s a respect that has to take place at the end of the game.”

“You go over, you won, the other guy lost,” Cowher said. “You’re going to lose a game too sometime, and somebody could come over and slap you on the back. You’re not going to appreciate that. It’s about being respectful of the game. … He can do exuberant, but then you gather your composure and you shake the man’s hand.”

with Shannon Sharpe chiming in too:

“I know Coach Harbaugh is excited,” the Hall of Fame tight end said. “His team went on the road and won a ballgame that very few people thought they could win. But there’s a time and a place for all of this. If you want to show your excitement, wait until you get to the locker room. You don’t show the head coach up. He knew who that was.”


Not really any different than players that excessively celebrate in the end zone and taunt opponents:

Act like you've been there before.

I'm sure Directv can't wait to get their hands on your unit.

 
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#65 OFFLINE   Laxguy

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Posted 17 October 2011 - 10:33 AM

Thanks for the comprehensive reply, SS.

The whole thing is a tempest in a teapot. Detroit coach showed worse lapse of judgement in pursuing Harbaugh down the field. - That was ongoing, not just a brief lapse in judgement.

John Madden was pretty sanguine about it..... and noted that when he coached, there was no handshaking at all. Bill Cowher is a better coach than talking head, and I do hope he returns to that arena.

Heh- That 'scene' was replayed this am on ESPN twice as much as any great plays on the field. Sportscasters, otoh, are having a "field day"!
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#66 OFFLINE   Tom Robertson

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Posted 17 October 2011 - 11:57 AM

I think Bill Cower said it best:

”I think Jim [Harbaugh] has a lot to learn,” Cowher said of an incident that nearly resulted in an end-zone brawl between the two head coaches. “You just don’t do that. I understand his excitement and everything, but there’s a respect that has to take place at the end of the game.”

“You go over, you won, the other guy lost,” Cowher said. “You’re going to lose a game too sometime, and somebody could come over and slap you on the back. You’re not going to appreciate that. It’s about being respectful of the game. … He can do exuberant, but then you gather your composure and you shake the man’s hand.”

with Shannon Sharpe chiming in too:

“I know Coach Harbaugh is excited,” the Hall of Fame tight end said. “His team went on the road and won a ballgame that very few people thought they could win. But there’s a time and a place for all of this. If you want to show your excitement, wait until you get to the locker room. You don’t show the head coach up. He knew who that was.”


Not really any different than players that excessively celebrate in the end zone and taunt opponents:

Act like you've been there before.

I don't know how these talking heads really have enough information to judge. We have a he said/he said with some video but no audio.

If all Harbaugh "did" was shake Schwartz hand and slap him on the back for a good game, that shouldn't be a problem. I've seen all kinds of greetings at midfield.

If Harbaugh did curse, then he should get some blame--but we don't know. And Schwartz himself was uncertain.

So how can we judge on the basis of limited information?

Cheers,
Tom

Go Packers!

My real treasures: 5 Grandchildren - S, D, M, M, C ; Now 5! Great-Grandtibbers - B, H, J, A, and M (Born 7/31/2011)


#67 OFFLINE   kikkenit2

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Posted 17 October 2011 - 12:14 PM

Jim Harbaugh likes to run the score up too. He pissed off Pete Carroll at USC and they had a grouchy handshake after the games about 2 years ago. Hope he wins coach of the year because my niners are worth watching again. Those 2 first round offensive linemen are paying off big time. Several other strong rookies like lb Bowman and cb Rogers also. We should be 6-0.

#68 OFFLINE   sum_random_dork

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Posted 17 October 2011 - 12:44 PM

Funny how more comes out today about this........Jim Shwartz going up to Jim and John Harbaugh during the summer at a dinner and saying Jim had no chance this year and didn't understand why he took the job. Before the game he goes up to Tony "Goose" Siragussa of FOX and says "the 49ers are afraid of our D and our fans they don't want to start on offense." Then when Jim challanged a play you couldn't challange Jim Shwartz could be seen mouthing "know the rules Harbaugh" with a few other words mixed in. Plus you add in Schwartz's little act last week when they beat the Cowboys and he jumped on the filed with his fist in the air........Now I ask again who came off as the fool? People want to make a big deal about Harbaugh untucking his shirt before the handshake etc........well that's one of his deals with his team when they win "they can untuck their shirts and relax." So you will often see players running up to Harbaugh to get him to untuck his shirt becuase of the win.

And as for saying sorry.........again he did say he was sorry "it was on him (me) for the hard handshake" he wasn't going to say he was sorry for being excited after the game and going out to greet his team. I watched the post game presser on CSN Bay Area and saw what he said.

#69 OFFLINE   spartanstew

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Posted 17 October 2011 - 01:19 PM

I don't know how these talking heads really have enough information to judge. We have a he said/he said with some video but no audio.

If all Harbaugh "did" was shake Schwartz hand and slap him on the back for a good game, that shouldn't be a problem. I've seen all kinds of greetings at midfield.

If Harbaugh did curse, then he should get some blame--but we don't know. And Schwartz himself was uncertain.

So how can we judge on the basis of limited information?

Cheers,
Tom


Regardless of what has transpired before with these two, I didn't need audio to know that Harbaugh was acting inappropriately for a post game handshake. Audio is only needed to know if it was even worse than it appeared.

I'm sure Directv can't wait to get their hands on your unit.

 
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#70 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 17 October 2011 - 02:27 PM

Bottom line is that both men ended up looking bad. Harbaugh looks bad for his over-hyperness and Schwartz looks bad for chasing him down.

There is going to be a game where an opponent takes a cheap shot at a Lions player during a game... and Schwartz is going to want his player to stay cool and not react and get a game-changing penalty against the Lions... and his players might remember how he reacted to a slap on the back and some cursing... so he is going to have to work to erase his example to his team.

Similarly, Harbaugh is going to have to work to caution his players not to do something stupid... like oh, remember when Singletary was coach and the 49ers had a game-ending interception that would have won them the game... only the guy that intercepted got carried away running with the ball and lost focus and the other team stripped it to him, and then went on to beat the 49ers?

So... both coaches will have some damage control in the locker room in terms of coaxing their players how to stay cool in a game.

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#71 OFFLINE   Sharkie_Fan

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Posted 17 October 2011 - 05:17 PM

So... both coaches will have some damage control in the locker room in terms of coaxing their players how to stay cool in a game.


Trent Dilfer was on ESPN Radio this morning while I was in the car, and this was his thought on the issue as well.

He didn't think the hyperness / confrontation was that big a deal... except for the fact that both coaches, as you pointed out, are going to try to get their players to keep their cool in certain situation, and this might hinder that message to some extent...

Not a huge deal, but certainly it'll have to be addressed.
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#72 OFFLINE   Tom Robertson

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Posted 17 October 2011 - 05:25 PM

Moving back to the original premise of the thread, I see Peter King still ranks the Lions highly. But never #1. :)

Cheers,
Tom

Go Packers!

My real treasures: 5 Grandchildren - S, D, M, M, C ; Now 5! Great-Grandtibbers - B, H, J, A, and M (Born 7/31/2011)


#73 OFFLINE   Sharkie_Fan

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Posted 17 October 2011 - 06:20 PM

Moving back to the original premise of the thread, I see Peter King still ranks the Lions highly. But never #1. :)

Cheers,
Tom


That same Peter King has my 49ers #2 in his fine 15. I love what the niners are doing this year, but I think putting them #2 might be a bit generous!
"There's a statistical theory that if you gave a million monkey's typewriters and set them to work, they'd eventually come up with the complete works of Shakespeare. Thanks to the Internet, we now know this isn't true" -Ian Hart

#74 OFFLINE   Tom Robertson

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Posted 17 October 2011 - 06:37 PM

That same Peter King has my 49ers #2 in his fine 15. I love what the niners are doing this year, but I think putting them #2 might be a bit generous!


Yeah, I hadn't registered that he put the Niners that high. Though that whole bunch with only one loss is kinda hard to really split up.

The good news for you is the Niners are definitely greatly improved. (As are the Lions.) :)

Cheers,
Tom

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#75 OFFLINE   Sharkie_Fan

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Posted 17 October 2011 - 07:43 PM

Yeah, I hadn't registered that he put the Niners that high. Though that whole bunch with only one loss is kinda hard to really split up.

The good news for you is the Niners are definitely greatly improved. (As are the Lions.) :)

Cheers,
Tom


King tends to break ties with his gut feeling... and I think you could argue that the Patriots and Ravens are right where they're "supposed to be"... the 49ers are playing above expectations, and have two wins on the road @ Philly, and @ Detroit, so they get the "feel good" boost in this weeks rankings.
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#76 OFFLINE   Laxguy

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Posted 17 October 2011 - 09:07 PM

Regardless of what has transpired before with these two, I didn't need audio to know that Harbaugh was acting inappropriately for a post game handshake. Audio is only needed to know if it was even worse than it appeared.


You must be a rabid Cowboys fan, or something. :D-----> All this hate on the Niners' coach, when the Lions' coach was at least as culpable.

I can't say enough how this stupid little incident has been overplayed by the media and us, and with that I will try to butt out of this thread. Or at least the parts about the coaches' actions. Or maybe I'll limit my comments to just three or four more posts on that, and another dozen on other aspects. Or maybe I'll post a lot more on all matters regarding the coaches, teams, football in general, talking heads, and what they really said, and then analyze that in psychological terms as to what it was really about, and then.....:nono2:
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#77 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 18 October 2011 - 02:21 PM

Green Bay has not only their record and performance thus far going for them... but the fact that not only are they mostly the same team that won the Super Bowl last season... they also won that game with a lot of injured players that are back... SO even if the injury bug strikes, they already know they can overcome.

Other good teams (Detroit, 49ers, New England, etc.) don't necessarily have that same built-in confidence that they can overcome a bunch of injuries.

That said... IF any of these top teams lose their quarterback, the season is probably done... because all of the really good teams this season seem to really be dependent on their QBs.

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#78 OFFLINE   spartanstew

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Posted 18 October 2011 - 08:08 PM

You must be a rabid Cowboys fan, or something. :D-----> All this hate on the Niners' coach, when the Lions' coach was at least as culpable.


First, the Cowboys are the worst part about living in Dallas. Second, Schwartz's actions might have been just as bad, but would not have happened without Harbaugh's actions. The instigator deserves the brunt of the blame.

I'm sure Directv can't wait to get their hands on your unit.

 
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#79 OFFLINE   Tom Robertson

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Posted 18 October 2011 - 08:19 PM

First, the Cowboys are the worst part about living in Dallas. Second, Schwartz's actions might have been just as bad, but would not have happened without Harbaugh's actions. The instigator deserves the brunt of the blame.


Baloney. That is only true if the response was reasonable and appropriate for the instigation.

Had Schwartz punched Harbaugh, that would have been entirely Schwartz's fault.

As it is, Schwartz chased Harbaugh 40 yards, confronted him several times and, even after being separated, was still on the apparent attack. That is way out of line for a curse, handshake, and shoving backslap (according to Schwartz.)

Again, we don't really know what happened. There is nothing on the tape to justify what Schwartz did. And I'd be pretty hard pressed to think of anything that anyone could have said to really justify what he did. Much less believe anything of that nature was really said.

Cheers,
Tom

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My real treasures: 5 Grandchildren - S, D, M, M, C ; Now 5! Great-Grandtibbers - B, H, J, A, and M (Born 7/31/2011)


#80 OFFLINE   spartanstew

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Posted 18 October 2011 - 09:46 PM

Had Schwartz punched Harbaugh, that would have been entirely Schwartz's fault.


But he didn't.

In this particular instance (and not hypothetical's), the instigator (Harbaugh) deserves the brunt of the blame. That doesn't mean what Schwartz did was appropriate, but as I said before: I can more easily understand someone acting foolishly when they're provoked over someone acting foolishly with no provocation.

I'm sure Directv can't wait to get their hands on your unit.

 
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