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DIRECTV App / Jailbreak discussions


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#221 OFFLINE   ajiuO

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 09:30 PM

Along with the nevermentioned purpose of jailbreaking . . . sharing paid apps.


Sharing paid apps is not the purpose of jailbreaking.

The purpose of jail breaking is to gain access to the file system (Just like you have on your computer).

There are different reasons for wanting access to the file system.. The number 1 reason that people jailbreak their iPhone is for the purpose of installing Cydia.

Cydia is an alternative app store that legally sales apps that apple will not not sale in their own app store... why is this so hard to understand?

There are people who pirate software on apple devices.. they are the same people who pirate software on mac and pc...... So why do you choose to single out jail breaking devices?

So let me ask. Do you think it would be good for Microsoft and Apple to take away your ability to acsess the file system on your computer? wouldn't it be better if all software developers had to sale their software in the microsoft or apple app stores and pay them 30%.... with no other alternative? I mean the main reson that people want access to their file system is so they can pirate software right??

Wrong.. that is ridiculous... and that is why jail breaking was ruled as being legal.

If you have a problem with software piracy (which I would fully agree with you on) then why don't you go after the software pirates... they are the problem, not people who jailbreak their phones.

I know a lot of people who have jailbroken phones and none of them have pirated software. its wrong to label jailbreakers. I jailbreak my iPhone and I'm proud of it... my iPhone can do a lot of cool things that non jailbroken iPhones can't do.

While we are at it why don't we blame people who leave their cars unlocked for car robberies... no need to blame the robbers... leaving your car unlocked is the problem... right?

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#222 OFFLINE   DodgerKing

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 09:36 PM

Along with the nevermentioned purpose of jailbreaking . . . sharing paid apps.


You can share paid APPs without JB. My wife and I have separate accounts and share APPs all of the time. All you have to do is log into someone else's account and install their APPs.

We should have created one shared account instead of two separate accounts.

#223 OFFLINE   Sgt. Slaughter

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 10:24 PM

so what allows them to not be afraid of streaming on the PC and instead be afraid of portable devices that are jailbroken/rooted?

OR can we not stream live content to PC or plan to do so?

i remember this earlier discussion was that it was easier to protect stored content than streaming live content like netflix vs the ipad streaming, one is live but other isn't...

#224 OFFLINE   Chris Blount

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 05:52 AM

The number 1 reason that people jailbreak their iPhone is for the purpose of installing Cydia.

Do you have statistics to back up this claim? I know many honest people jailbreak for Cydia but I'm sure many others do it to pirate software. You just can't ignore it. I get skeptical when people say the most users jailbreak just to use Cydia.

#225 OFFLINE   TBlazer07

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 06:16 AM

Do you have statistics to back up this claim? I know many honest people jailbreak for Cydia but I'm sure many others do it to pirate software. You just can't ignore it. I get skeptical when people say the most users jailbreak just to use Cydia.

Just curious. Are there statistics to say the number 1 reason people jailbreak is to pirate software? I get skeptical when people say the most users jailbreak just to pirate software.

#226 OFFLINE   cypherx

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 06:45 AM

I jailbreak for cydia for the multitude of customization apps. I'm pretty sure I gave a short list earlier in this threads life, so I won't reiterate it. Heck I posted a screen shot of my iPad which looks much like a Honeycomb tablet (thanks to Dreamboard and HoneyPad Pro theme). Something super simple like putting the date next to the time in the upper bar, or further customization of the notification center make Jailbreaking worthwhile.

ajiuO, I agree with you 100%. But on THIS site your not going to get anywhere. This site heavily leans towards DirecTV in their favor. Trying to debate anything wrong with DirecTV is like trying to convince a right wing republican that pro choice is better than pro life.

Hey all I can say right now is DirecTV works on my iPad. Also a pretty big breakthrough occurred where we found some new system hooks that eases up on keeping it patched a little bit. Will it be patched forever? Probably not... but it keeps everyone busy and the programmers at DirecTV have something to do to get paid for. (Though I'd rather see time invested into improvements like unified playlist & series manager / to do management or copying favorites and settings from receiver to receiver.)

How will DirecTV enable live streaming on the PC? I don't know specifics, but I'm sure they've done their homework since we ALL have root filesystem access on a Mac or PC.

Edited by cypherx, 29 February 2012 - 06:50 AM.

- > Link to my setup thread< -

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#227 OFFLINE   dennisj00

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 07:01 AM

It's too easy! Just google 'estimate of lost sales of apps from jailbreaking' and read the results!

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#228 OFFLINE   Chris Blount

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 07:15 AM

Just curious. Are there statistics to say the number 1 reason people jailbreak is to pirate software? I get skeptical when people say the most users jailbreak just to pirate software.

Give me a break. :nono:

It was just a question and I never said that most users jailbreak to pirate software.

#229 OFFLINE   ajiuO

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 11:23 AM

It's too easy! Just google 'estimate of lost sales of apps from jailbreaking' and read the results!


Why can't you answer any of my questions?

How does jailbreaking equal piracy.... It doesn't. That is a 100% fact.

Jailbreaking = acsess to file system.
Piracy = piracy
People who pirate software are responsible for a loss in app sals... Not jailbreaking.

You seriously don't get it... You can't answer my questions because your logic is flawed. You want to blame jailbreaking and not software pirates... And I don't get why.

One more time... Do you think it's wrong for Microsoft and apple to give file system acsess to computer users? I bet you won't Won't answer that... Because then it will be to hard to single out jailbroken devices.

What's the number one cause of app sharing on a windows pc? Is it file system acsess??

Edited by ajiuO, 29 February 2012 - 12:04 PM.


#230 OFFLINE   ajiuO

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 11:39 AM

I jailbreak for cydia for the multitude of customization apps. I'm pretty sure I gave a short list earlier in this threads life, so I won't reiterate it. Heck I posted a screen shot of my iPad which looks much like a Honeycomb tablet (thanks to Dreamboard and HoneyPad Pro theme). Something super simple like putting the date next to the time in the upper bar, or further customization of the notification center make Jailbreaking worthwhile.

ajiuO, I agree with you 100%. But on THIS site your not going to get anywhere. This site heavily leans towards DirecTV in their favor. Trying to debate anything wrong with DirecTV is like trying to convince a right wing republican that pro choice is better than pro life.

Hey all I can say right now is DirecTV works on my iPad. Also a pretty big breakthrough occurred where we found some new system hooks that eases up on keeping it patched a little bit. Will it be patched forever? Probably not... but it keeps everyone busy and the programmers at DirecTV have something to do to get paid for. (Though I'd rather see time invested into improvements like unified playlist & series manager / to do management or copying favorites and settings from receiver to receiver.)

How will DirecTV enable live streaming on the PC? I don't know specifics, but I'm sure they've done their homework since we ALL have root filesystem access on a Mac or PC.


I don't think directv is wrong in trying to protect their content... Just their aproach.

The thing that's getting me fired up is ignorant people who don't even know what jail breaking is. They think that jailbreaking actualy is some form of piracy, and for some reason want to shift the blame frome the software pirates to jailbreaking it self.

I want directv to protect its content... First of all, as far as I know, there is nothing out there that allows directv iPad content to be saved... But I get that they are being proactive to prevent it.... The thing is.... Jailbreak detection is not the way to go... There will always be a way around it... And jailbreaking is legal... So directv doesn't even have the law on their side... They need to focus their efforts on encrypting the content... Then if Somone breaks the encryption they can go after that person legally... It should not be any different then directv2pc... Jailbreaking is not the problem, and it's not going away. Directv knows that jailbreaking is not ilegal or they would have this thread removed from here quicker then you could snap your fingers..... I'm just trying to offer them a better suggestion on protecting their content

Jailbreak detection.. No, encryption... Yes

Edited by ajiuO, 29 February 2012 - 11:51 AM.


#231 OFFLINE   TBlazer07

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 12:30 PM

Do you have statistics to back up this claim? I know many honest people jailbreak for Cydia but I'm sure many others do it to pirate software. You just can't ignore it. I get skeptical when people say the most users jailbreak just to use Cydia.


Just curious. Are there statistics to say the number 1 reason people jailbreak is to pirate software? I get skeptical when people say the most users jailbreak just to pirate software.


Give me a break. :nono:

It was just a question and I never said that most users jailbreak to pirate software.



Tsk Tsk. I need a break as well. :eek2: It was simply a comment on an oft repeated fallacy. I'm just as skeptical when people constantly connect JB & Piracy and insinuate that most who JB do it for the free software. I don't root my Android phone for free software either. Sure, lots of people steal software, but unfortunately nothing anyone does will ever stop it whether it be 99cent IOS software or $999 computer software.

Speaking of piracy, I'd love to see the music files on the hard drives of all the folks who are so "high and mighty" about software piracy. Oh wait, I forgot, that's different, it's only music. And no, before you say I'm accusing you of stealing music, I'm not. It's just a generalization.

#232 OFFLINE   ajiuO

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 12:34 PM

Another thing that peopl need to understand about the whole situation... Let me give you a little bit of history on jailbreaking.

When the iPhone first came out there was no such think as iPhone Apps. Apple did not allow acsess to the file system because they wanted the device to be simple to use and did not want users messing with system files that could inhibit the reliability of the device..... To put it simply it was to protect their reputation of building quality devises that are reliable.... It had nothing to do with preventing app sharing... Because there were no apps to share.


When the iPhone was originally jailbroken... It had nothing to do with software piracy because there was no software to pirate... In fact the main reason for jailbreaking was so that you could install apps.... There was somthing called installer.... It was the first iPhone app store. For the first time apps could be installed on the iPhone.... This became huge and apple saw the potential. They made their own app store and charged developers to sale apps... They also added a lot of restrictions on what apps could do. There were some developers who still wanted to make apps that went beyond what apple would alow... So jailbreaking continued... Eventually installer was replaced by cydia and rock, they added the ability for developers to sale apps just as they do on the AppStore.. And this caused a lot of innovation to kick in...

Yes people pirate apps. Not only do they pirate app store Apps but they pirate cydia apps as well.... The cydia developers and a lot of the people who develop the jailbreaks hate piracy just as much as anyone.

You have to look at all the good that jailbreaking has done... It is because of jailbreaking that we have a mobile app market and many of the innovative features that the iPhone has.... Apple always implements features that have a high demand in the jailbreak market.

Jailbreaking is great for apple... It's kind of like an open market beta test that apple doesn't have to offer support on... They can take the ideas that they like, refine them, and make them public.

So stop picking on jailbreaking and focus your hate on software pirates

#233 OFFLINE   ajiuO

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 12:51 PM

Tsk Tsk. I need a break as well. :eek2: It was simply a comment on an oft repeated fallacy. I'm just as skeptical when people constantly connect JB & Piracy and insinuate that most who JB do it for the free software. I don't root my Android phone for free software either. Sure, lots of people steal software, but unfortunately nothing anyone does will ever stop it whether it be 99cent IOS software or $999 computer software.

Speaking of piracy, I'd love to see the music files on the hard drives of all the folks who are so "high and mighty" about software piracy. Oh wait, I forgot, that's different, it's only music. And no, before you say I'm accusing you of stealing music, I'm not. It's just a generalization.


Dumb question... I'm not an android user so I'm not entirely clear on this.... But what is the point in rooting? I though android was "open"... That isn't meant as sarcasm... I'm just curious... I'm sure there is a reason.

#234 OFFLINE   dennisj00

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 02:09 PM

I never said that all jailbreakers pirated software, I just said it was an unspoken reason for jailbreaking.

And since this thread is about the iPad app, your other comments are meaningless.

I understand some of the 'legal' reasons for jailbreaking, but I don't do it because I don't want to find some of my apps not working until some additional hack is published.

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#235 OFFLINE   ajiuO

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 03:04 PM

I never said that all jailbreakers pirated software, I just said it was an unspoken reason for jailbreaking.

And since this thread is about the iPad app, your other comments are meaningless.

I understand some of the 'legal' reasons for jailbreaking, but I don't do it because I don't want to find some of my apps not working until some additional hack is published.


Yeah but you are implying that piracy is the purpose of jailbreaking and making it sound as if jailbreaking is bad because of it....I am trying to educate people on the misconception that you are representing.... I am also not denying that piracy is a problem and have no problem with directv trying to fight video piracy.... I am simply explaining why jailbreaking is not the problem.

And no ... What I'm saying is not meaningless. It specifically says on the rules of this thread that you can discuss the philosophical and legal aspects of jailbreaking and rooting... That's exactly what I'm doing... Let me post a copy of the rules for you.

Also... That's fine if you don't want to jailbreak... It's not for everyone... Some people are willing to deal with the bugs and stuff to get features... Some are not.... This is the same reason some people do CE testing for directv and some don't... Just don't point to jailbreaking as a sorce of negativity :)

This is the official thread for discussing the use of jailbroken or rooted hardware with DIRECTV devices and DIRECTV service.

You may:
Discuss the philosophical and legal aspects of jailbreaking or rooting.

You may not:
Discuss how to jailbreak or root
Discuss how to hack apps to work with jailbroken or rooted hardware
Attack others who choose to exercise their legal right to modify purchased hardware
In any way discuss any violation of terms&conditions, customer agreements, or in any other way break forum rules.

Go!


Edited by ajiuO, 29 February 2012 - 03:12 PM.


#236 OFFLINE   DodgerKing

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 03:24 PM

Do you have statistics to back up this claim? I know many honest people jailbreak for Cydia but I'm sure many others do it to pirate software. You just can't ignore it. I get skeptical when people say the most users jailbreak just to use Cydia.

You do not need to JB your phone to pirate software. That can be done without JB.

Edited by DodgerKing, 29 February 2012 - 03:32 PM.


#237 OFFLINE   DodgerKing

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 03:30 PM

Another thing that peopl need to understand about the whole situation... Let me give you a little bit of history on jailbreaking.

When the iPhone first came out there was no such think as iPhone Apps. Apple did not allow acsess to the file system because they wanted the device to be simple to use and did not want users messing with system files that could inhibit the reliability of the device..... To put it simply it was to protect their reputation of building quality devises that are reliable.... It had nothing to do with preventing app sharing... Because there were no apps to share.


When the iPhone was originally jailbroken... It had nothing to do with software piracy because there was no software to pirate... In fact the main reason for jailbreaking was so that you could install apps.... There was somthing called installer.... It was the first iPhone app store. For the first time apps could be installed on the iPhone.... This became huge and apple saw the potential. They made their own app store and charged developers to sale apps... They also added a lot of restrictions on what apps could do. There were some developers who still wanted to make apps that went beyond what apple would alow... So jailbreaking continued... Eventually installer was replaced by cydia and rock, they added the ability for developers to sale apps just as they do on the AppStore.. And this caused a lot of innovation to kick in...

Yes people pirate apps. Not only do they pirate app store Apps but they pirate cydia apps as well.... The cydia developers and a lot of the people who develop the jailbreaks hate piracy just as much as anyone.

You have to look at all the good that jailbreaking has done... It is because of jailbreaking that we have a mobile app market and many of the innovative features that the iPhone has.... Apple always implements features that have a high demand in the jailbreak market.

Jailbreaking is great for apple... It's kind of like an open market beta test that apple doesn't have to offer support on... They can take the ideas that they like, refine them, and make them public.

So stop picking on jailbreaking and focus your hate on software pirates

Yep. Many of the changes Apple makes on their phones is a direct result of the popularity of these ideas that first came out in the JB communities. Many of the popular Cydia APPs eventually became iTunes APPs or official Apple setting tweaks.

You can thank the JB community for advancing the technology that many of the non JB now use.

#238 OFFLINE   cypherx

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 05:50 PM

ajiuO, I agree with everything you said.

One interesting point that always comes up in this topic is piracy. What exactly are we pirating? The DirecTV app is FREE.

Are they worried about the streaming content? Well its behind a pay wall. You know that DirecTV.com username and password you enter into the app? Yeah that is authenticated on a secure (HTTPs) web server which checks DirecTV's database to be sure your authorized programming. Not only that but the DirecTV iPad app ensures that it is able to contact a DVR on the local LAN subnet to police that your within your legal jurisdiction to the content. Your address on the account must be where your DVR is, at least that is what is implied here.

Are they worried about slinging the content over the internet? Well then sue Slingbox, Vulkano and anyone that makes video capture cards for the PC.

If they properly DRM the stream then you wouldn't be able to capture it via a proxy or network mirror / span port. Yes, you can do that today even WITH a STOCK iPad. You can always get to the network layer with a smart switch or a proxy server. Why do you think the industry developed secured protocols like HTTPS, DTCP, certificates, tokens, and even proprietary methods for securing end to end communications? How do you think HBOGo works on the very same iPad that the DirecTV app was programmed for? DRM over HTTPS. Proxy it all you want and your not getting anywhere. That's not the case with DirecTV last time I checked about a month ago.

Anyway it doesn't matter right now because the app works. The appropriate patch is out there with the proper search engine query. However to the uninformed and casual users who may of stumbled across a jailbroken device and don't know anything else, they wouldn't have the appropriate patch and therefore DirecTV's efforts were successful.

- > Link to my setup thread< -

My  DirecTV HD WISHLIST:  NickJR, Nicktoons, Revolt.TV, FXM, We, Oxygen, The Hub, Fuse, GSN, Sprout, GAC, Esquire, MTV2, BBC World News, Ovation, Reelz , Sundance, Up, Music Choice Play HD (formerly SWRV), Al Jazeera America, Military Channel, NASA

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#239 OFFLINE   Scott Kocourek

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 05:55 PM

ajiuO, I agree with everything you said.

One interesting point that always comes up in this topic is piracy. What exactly are we pirating? The DirecTV app is FREE.
[...]


But does it not come with conditions? It is still their product they allow anyone that follows the terms to use.

I would probably let you borrow my truck to go to the hospital or to work for free but if I asked you not to go out drinking with it I should be able to take it back.

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#240 OFFLINE   ajiuO

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 06:39 PM

ajiuO, I agree with everything you said.

One interesting point that always comes up in this topic is piracy. What exactly are we pirating? The DirecTV app is FREE.

Are they worried about the streaming content? Well its behind a pay wall. You know that DirecTV.com username and password you enter into the app? Yeah that is authenticated on a secure (HTTPs) web server which checks DirecTV's database to be sure your authorized programming. Not only that but the DirecTV iPad app ensures that it is able to contact a DVR on the local LAN subnet to police that your within your legal jurisdiction to the content. Your address on the account must be where your DVR is, at least that is what is implied here.

Are they worried about slinging the content over the internet? Well then sue Slingbox, Vulkano and anyone that makes video capture cards for the PC.

If they properly DRM the stream then you wouldn't be able to capture it via a proxy or network mirror / span port. Yes, you can do that today even WITH a STOCK iPad. You can always get to the network layer with a smart switch or a proxy server. Why do you think the industry developed secured protocols like HTTPS, DTCP, certificates, tokens, and even proprietary methods for securing end to end communications? How do you think HBOGo works on the very same iPad that the DirecTV app was programmed for? DRM over HTTPS. Proxy it all you want and your not getting anywhere. That's not the case with DirecTV last time I checked about a month ago.

Anyway it doesn't matter right now because the app works. The appropriate patch is out there with the proper search engine query. However to the uninformed and casual users who may of stumbled across a jailbroken device and don't know anything else, they wouldn't have the appropriate patch and therefore DirecTV's efforts were successful.



I think the main concern of directv (and it's a legitimate concern) is this...

They don't want people distributing content on the Internet.... It is legal to record live broadcast... So if people were just to record shows that were playing on their iPad... It would not be a huge problem... However the big concern is that people are going to take the content and share it on the Internet..... The producers of the content don't want people getting their content for free... So if directv were just to let that happen they would have a lot of problems and develop bad relationships with the content producers.... That would be bad for everyone... So basically directv has to be proactive... I don't think they could care less if your iPad is jailbroken or not.... They just have to take preventative action to keep people happy...

I think that encryption would be a better aproach because then they aren't fighting an unwinnable battle... And it is absolutely ilegal to decrypt encrypted media... So they would have the law on their side..

There could be one good side to all of this... If directv continues to fight the jailbreak detection war... It's gotten to a point where there are ways around the version detection that force you to upgrade to a patched version.... So directv needs a way to get people to upgrade willingly....the only way to do that is by enticing them with new features... So it could help to advance the software more quickly.... I think that eventually directv will just encrypt the streem and drop the jailbreak detection though because ultimately they will have to spend less time fighting it... Just my 3 cents




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