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Guest Message by DevFuse

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RT Channel 280


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58 replies to this topic

#21 OFFLINE   tampa8

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 09:24 AM

I think it is a misrepresentation to now have people look at Al Jezeera and ask how could it be protested comparing it to RT.
At that time it was a very VERY different Al Jezeera. I won't go into politics with specifics, but they actually targeted in a "documentary" a certain group of people as being the reason we had 911. This as a "news" organization.

Even at that, I do not like censorship, and we need to see this stuff so we can understand how others are thinking. Just remember though, Dish or anyone does not have to carry a news channel it does not want to. You don't have to subscribe to any provider you don't want to. It is not censorship if the provider does not want to carry a news channel even if it's because of politics.

Today, Al Jezeera has changed, and in obvious ways. They went after and got some credible news people, and certainly have become more of a news organization than propagandists. And to be fair to them, some new organizations do change, many think CNN was much more to the left but has since come more to the middle in their reporting.

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#22 OFFLINE   schmack

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 02:19 PM

Censorship is when the government disallows free speech.
Moderation is when a forum thread gets out of hand and locked.


Moderation is simply censorship.

#23 OFFLINE   Michael P

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 04:49 PM

Moderation is simply censorship.

What government is censoring the posts here?

Moderation happens to keep this place sane, otherwise it would become just like the wild wild west.
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#24 OFFLINE   tampa8

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 09:44 AM

What government is censoring the posts here?

Moderation happens to keep this place sane, otherwise it would become just like the wild wild west.

I agree. It is along the lines of why I say Dish does not have to carry a News channel it does not want to. That is not censorship as the term is being used, that is an owner making decisions even if based on political beliefs. Same with the "owner" of a forum. Those who think it is censorship can start their own forum and then run it as they please so there is no censorship. If the Government told DBS Talk and every forum to delete or modify or not allow posts, that would be censorship.

#25 OFFLINE   Jim5506

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 07:34 PM

There is nothing wrong with censorship.

We do it to ourselves all day long, if we did not there would be no civility.
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#26 OFFLINE   samhevener

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 05:11 AM

Let me get this straight....you are KIDDING me!

We've got bloody RT which does NOTHING but slam the US and praise Putin 24/7, but Al Jazeera English was short-circuited by a few ... uninformed people?

OK, before I get into a shouting match here I simply want to challenge anyone who wants to slam me on AJE.

First, go to: http://rt.com/on-air/ Watch it for an hour and count the anti-US references you see and hear, the stories that tell of all the problems in America.

Then, go to: http://www.aljazeera.com/watch_now/ and do the same.

Then come back here and let's discuss.

BTW, as I was typing this I switched on RT, just to make sure it was what I remembered. Within 30 seconds I had been told how Newt Gingrich or Romney as President would curtail American civil liberties and the crawl at the bottom of the screen chided the US for "interfering" with its comments about the Russian election.

I want to know who is paying Dish to pick up this channel. Look, I know what Charlie's politics are...I can't help but wonder if he knows he's broadcasting this...stuff?

As a child, I would lie in bed at night and listen to Radio Moscow, along with many other shortwave stations. Even at the age of 12 I could discern the difference between propaganda and honestly reported news. Today's RT doesn't push the glories of Marxism as did the old Radio Moscow...but it is considerably more sophisticated in the ways it seeks to trash our country and its interests abroad.

Sorry for the rant, folks. This just pissed me off (as I guess you can tell).


RT is much better than all those Home Shopping Channels (aka 24 hour infomericals) that take up bandwidth on Dish. :mad:
AN OLD GEEZER WHO REMEMBERS THE DUMONT TELEVISION NETWORK AND IT'S TOP RATED "CAPTAIN VIDEO AND HIS VIDEO RANGERS", TV NEWS ANCHORMEN WEARING HATS DURING THE NEWSCAST, ONLY 180 SECONDS OF COMMERICALS EACH HALF HOUR, 3 STATIONS ON THE AIR WITH THEIR TEST PATTERNS AIRED FROM 2 TO 3PM, PROGRAMMING FROM 3PM TO 11:30 AND SIGNING OFF AT 11:30PM. HOW COULD I FORGET THE SINGLE FRAME VERTICAL ROLL WHEN THE STATIONS SWITCHED FROM NETWORK TO LOCAL OR LOCAL TO NETWORK AND THE TIME TONE ON THE HOUR.

#27 OFFLINE   schmack

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 05:34 AM

What government is censoring the posts here?

Moderation happens to keep this place sane, otherwise it would become just like the wild wild west.


The government isn't the only power to whom the word censorship applies. Any entity with the power to suppress any content for any reason is censoring that content.

Moderating a forum like this can justify close and lock, but not delete.

Or not, whatever, lets not argue.

Edited by schmack, 14 December 2011 - 10:49 AM.


#28 OFFLINE   paja

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 08:21 AM

DISH gets RT
Comcast gets BBC WORLD NEWS
http://www.nytimes.c...dudKocyiZoDx86w

#29 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 08:04 PM

Moderating a forum like this can justify close and lock, but not delete.

Nope. Moderating can justify any action needed to keep the forum on track. Deleting is a key tool and not deleting something is probably the biggest complaint we get as moderators. Feel free to read the site's User Agreement and PM any moderator if you have any further questions.


As for the topic of this thread, I watched an hour or two when RT was first launched in DISH to see what it was. I did not find it any worse than the Public Interest "Free Speech TV" (9415) that has been on DISH for years. I would prefer BBC World News but with a couple hundred other channels to choose from I'm not forced to watch RT (or FSTV).

#30 OFFLINE   schmack

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 06:16 AM

Moderating can justify any action needed to keep the forum on track. Deleting is a key tool and not deleting something is probably the biggest complaint we get as moderators.


Nope. I do not doubt that not deleting something is the biggest complaint moderators get. However, that doesn't change the fact that when practiced it is indeed censorship, and *ahem* should not be done. Your attitude in this regard as a forum moderator is exactly what I needed to effectively demonstrate my original point on the subject. Thanks for that, I guess. Core belief here: Free people who enjoy (by rite of blood) freedom of speech should not have that freedom revoked in the name of moderation.

As for RT, I thought it was interesting to watch for ten minutes or so. If you can think for yourself the propaganda level there is astounding to see.

Edited by schmack, 19 December 2011 - 06:40 AM.


#31 OFFLINE   RasputinAXP

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 06:48 AM

Nope. I do not doubt that not deleting something is the biggest complaint moderators get. However, that doesn't change the fact that when practiced it is indeed censorship, and *ahem* should not be done. Your attitude in this regard as a forum moderator is exactly what I needed to effectively demonstrate my original point on the subject. Thanks for that, I guess. Core belief here: Free people who enjoy (by rite of blood) freedom of speech should not have that freedom revoked in the name of moderation.

As for RT, I thought it was interesting to watch for ten minutes or so. If you can think for yourself the propaganda level there is astounding to see.


THE MODERATORS ARE NOT THE GOVERNMENT. THIS IS NOT CENSORSHIP. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS. I mean, seriously. Your core belief does not entitle you to try and tell a forum moderator on a site you don't own what to do. Pop into your local coffee shop and start screaming obscenities at the top of your lungs and see if your first amendment rights get "trampled on."

Seriously, go start your own satellite forum and run it yourself.

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#32 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 11:34 AM

Rasputin above nailed it... I don't know why this concept always confuses people.

Censorship is when the government intervenes... Everything else is just house rules.

You may have the right to free speech and a gun... But I have the right to forbid you from my home if you bring that gun or speech... You have the right to leave if you do not like the rules in my home.

Think of a web site like this as the web site owner's home... You obey his rules when inside, and that includes his rules on moderating what can be discussed and how it can be discussed. Don't like the rules? Go to another home(forum) or build your own.

Forum moderation is not remotely the same as censorship.

Now back to topic!

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#33 OFFLINE   Orion9

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 01:30 PM

I just looked at a couple of dictionaries and neither made any assertion that a censor had to be working for a government. For example dictionary.com says:

1. an official who examines books, plays, news reports, motion pictures, radio and television programs, letters, cablegrams, etc., for the purpose of suppressing parts deemed objectionable on moral, political, military, or other grounds.
2. any person who supervises the manners or morality of others.
... several more.

My Oxford paper dictionary says that a censor is "a person authorized...." but doesn't say authorized by whom.

So it seems to me that a moderator can be called a censor if he likes.

But the word you chose doesn't change the fact that a site owner will control the site as he wishes.

#34 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 02:58 PM

I suppose if you are technical... Censoring could apply even to one's own self-editing... Do you ever not say something like a curse word in front of your mom or in church? Well, then you may have just censored yourself!

But the larger point when people talk of censorship usually is meant to be something like a government controlling the people by forbidding certain ideas OR sometimes when groups of people want to remove a book from schools.

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#35 OFFLINE   Orion9

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 03:26 PM

Yes, some degree of self-censorship is practiced by just about everyone. And Freud talked about censorship within the mind and dreams.

And then there is the larger form of self-censorship:

http://en.wikipedia....Self-censorship

To get more on topic - some of the stuff that is self-censored by one country's news outlets are likely to be played - or even overplayed! - on another country's news outlets, so a wide variety of sources is probably a good thing.

#36 OFFLINE   TBoneit

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 04:59 PM

Nope. I do not doubt that not deleting something is the biggest complaint moderators get. However, that doesn't change the fact that when practiced it is indeed censorship, and *ahem* should not be done. Your attitude in this regard as a forum moderator is exactly what I needed to effectively demonstrate my original point on the subject. Thanks for that, I guess. Core belief here: Free people who enjoy (by rite of blood) freedom of speech should not have that freedom revoked in the name of moderation.

As for RT, I thought it was interesting to watch for ten minutes or so. If you can think for yourself the propaganda level there is astounding to see.


If you had your way with no deleting the forum would become a wasteland of spam and malicious links. I've seen what happens to a unmoderated forum. The entire content is 10% good 90% garbage.

With no deletion anyone could post anything against the forum rules and they would get kicked off but their garbage would remain.

You have freedom of speech within limits. You do not ever have the right to stand up in in a movie theater and yell fire, fire, run for your life. Or go around saying kill so & so.

These occupy idiots have the right to say what they believe.
They do not have the right to ruin others quality of life or their sleep by making constant noise all night long.
They do not have the right to ruin someones business by driving away customers.
They do not have a right to block public streets without a permit from the city.
They do not have the right to squat on private property.

Freedom of speech has limits it isn't total freedom to say anything..
Remember when your kids were the TV set's remote control?

#37 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 08:10 PM

And with that said, I'll add this reminder:
This is a satellite discussion forum. We discuss satellite services, channels and channel content. This thread is here to discuss the RT channel added to DISH Network. If anyone wants to continue to discuss moderation you may do so via private messages.

This thread is about RT.
:backtotop

#38 OFFLINE   Chihuahua

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 02:36 PM

I would like to see Dish Network add Al-Jazeera English, BBC World News, and possibly Sky News if that were possible, as mentioned earlier.

#39 OFFLINE   Ray C@DISH Network

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 08:31 AM

I will submit a programming request form to our programming department for the channels you mentioned. Thanks.

I would like to see Dish Network add Al-Jazeera English, BBC World News, and possibly Sky News if that were possible, as mentioned earlier.



#40 OFFLINE   mnassour

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 11:28 PM

OK, I've calmed down now, left for a while, and am back NOT to discuss moderation ;), but rather RT.

The tragedy of RT is that it is marketed by itself and Dishnetwork and a legitimate news channel when one can quickly tell by watching it for no more than ten minutes, that its sole reason for being is to give the world Vladimir Putin's latest party line and to disparage my country unfairly in the eyes of the English-speaking world. Indeed, it reminds me of nothing so much as the German English-language broadcasts during the second World War, technically excellent, but with grotesque content.

As for AJE, well, I can only agree with those up above who now say it is a legitimate news organization for the reasons stated. I have been away from this particular forum for quite a while and apparently missed the firestorm the last request for AJE caused.

Ray C...if you would, please, put my name on the list of those who will switch from DirecTV to Dishnework the day AJE appears on your system. Oh and of course, in HD please! ;)




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