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Firewire (DishWire) and VividLogic press release


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25 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   comet48

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Posted 23 December 2003 - 06:09 PM

"Our search for highly interoperable software that provides multi-device, multi-vendor interoperability based on open standards led us to VividLogic" said Tom Taylor, Vice President of Engineering, EchoStar. "By working with VividLogic, we were able to quickly integrate a mature software stack with a proven track record and open APIs into our STB platform. EchoStar would like to provide HDTV content to as many television sets as possible, which is why we plan to support both 1394 and DVI, two primary developing standards in the industry."

Mark, whatever happened to this sentiment? Has it changed. If so, don't you think that E* should state it as publically as the statement above?

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#2 OFFLINE   TVBob

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Posted 23 December 2003 - 06:27 PM

"EchoStar would like to provide HDTV content to as many television sets as possible, which is why we plan to support both 1394 and DVI, two primary developing standards in the industry."


Good find comet48. The full text is here: http://www.vividlogi...ws/jun2402.html in the VividLogic press release dated June 24, 2002.
TV Bob
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#3 OFFLINE   comet48

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Posted 23 December 2003 - 06:32 PM

Wonder what he meant by quickly?

#4 OFFLINE   comet48

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Posted 23 December 2003 - 06:38 PM

VividLogic selected to provide IEEE 1394 for Scientific-Atlanta High-Definition Digital Cable Set-Top Boxes

And Here comes the competition.

http://www.vividlogi..._Final_0918.pdf

#5 OFFLINE   Mark Lamutt

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Posted 23 December 2003 - 06:56 PM

comet - that's the first I've heard of that press release, but I wasn't keeping up with the firewire issue until recently. I'll try to get an answer, but most of the people "in the know" are on vacation this week for the holidays, so it will probably be delayed getting answered.
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#6 OFFLINE   comet48

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Posted 23 December 2003 - 07:29 PM

Thanks Mark

#7 OFFLINE   gonzo

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Posted 23 December 2003 - 10:45 PM

comet, thanks for digging up that release. That was the primary one on which I based the purchase of my Firewire-only Mits TV last year. Clearly it states one the intent to provide Firewire for the purpose of delivering copy-protected content to displays...not just using it for archival to DVHS, etc.

Let's hope that there's some validity to the "rumor" Mark mentioned, and that this doesn't turn into a case where the marketing got ahead of itself to the detriment of us trusting folks who made significant purchase decisions based on these comments.

If E*s goal is truly "...to provide HDTV content to as many television sets as possible, which is why we plan to support both 1394 and DVI...", I find it hard to believe that they would simply not support ALL Firewire-only Mitsubishi HD sets prior to this year, as well as the long list of other sets previously provided by TVBob (which I should mention is not exhaustive):

http://www.1394ta.or...tml#Televisions

Just doesn't sound like a smart business decision...!

#8 OFFLINE   comet48

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Posted 31 December 2003 - 06:45 PM

comet - that's the first I've heard of that press release, but I wasn't keeping up with the firewire issue until recently. I'll try to get an answer, but most of the people "in the know" are on vacation this week for the holidays, so it will probably be delayed getting answered.

Mark,
Anything on this yet?
Thanks

#9 OFFLINE   Mark Lamutt

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Posted 31 December 2003 - 09:46 PM

I haven't heard anything yet, but the people that would be able to give an answer won't be back in the office until next Monday, so I didn't really expect to hear anything yet.
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#10 OFFLINE   comet48

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Posted 14 January 2004 - 06:31 PM

Anything yet mark?

#11 OFFLINE   Mark Lamutt

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Posted 14 January 2004 - 10:57 PM

I haven't heard back yet. I'll try a couple of different people tomorrow...
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#12 OFFLINE   DonLandis

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Posted 15 January 2004 - 03:40 AM

Mark and others- Please look at the date of that article- Please, all of you need to understand that statements made back then were based on what was happening back then. At that time 1394 for monitor use was at it's peak. 6 months later in CES 2003 the word was that 1394 was dead and the standard would be DVI. 6 months after that a new standard, HDMI was being said to be the newest and latest upcoming standard. At CES this year HDMI was just beginning to find its way into the many monitors being made. Unfortunately 1394 and DVI are not directly backward compatible while DVI and HDMI are. While it was probably wrong to design the 921 without 1394 output, nevertheless it was; and to go back in and rebuild the 921 output section to include 1394 would not be a very good business move.
ASk yourself this- How much would you pay for a special module to connect to the 921 to be able to use 1394 output with your medium resolution MItsubishi monitor? Lets assume that there is no difference in the observed PQ between component and 1394. How much would you pay?
Some people were said to pay over $1000 for the PM to get 1394 on their Mits. Would you pay $1000 for a PM 1394 for the 921 too?

Why don't you run a poll- Find out how many own 1394 monitors. Find out how many would buy a module for the 921( if it were possible) to get monitor output in 1394 if it cost $1000, Cost $500, Cost $100? We may be dealing with a very small number that does not justify the development cost of the module.

PS- consider that the 169Time for record only is $1000 due to very small numbers of buyers that have to pay for the development and hard costs.

#13 OFFLINE   olgeezer

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Posted 15 January 2004 - 07:32 AM

How many would pay to hook the 921 to a recording device, for high definition which is one of the more important uses of the 1394 connector in displays? Why have a digital recorder to hard drive, without the capability to export full resolution for recording? So now your tv is obsolete because IT doesn't have 1394? Sounds like a design flaw.

#14 OFFLINE   David_Levin

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Posted 15 January 2004 - 08:54 AM

While it was probably wrong to design the 921 without 1394 output, nevertheless it was


But, the 921 already has a 1394 (firewire/Dishwire) output. They just need software drivers for any devices they plan to support (and a settling of the copy protection fears).

#15 OFFLINE   DonLandis

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Posted 15 January 2004 - 10:36 AM

"But, the 921 already has a 1394 (firewire/Dishwire) output."

This has been covered before, hundreds of times. Dishwire output is hardware specific to the VCR dump of hard drive content. IT has no way of containing the OSD info and this goes beyond some Ross Perot simpleton's solution like "fix it" with a driver.

Adding a different driver to my minivan does not turn it into an H2 Hummer. :D

#16 OFFLINE   comet48

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Posted 15 January 2004 - 10:45 AM

Mark and others- Please look at the date of that article- Please, all of you need to understand that statements made back then were based on what was happening back then. At that time 1394 for monitor use was at it's peak. 6 months later in CES 2003 the word was that 1394 was dead and the standard would be DVI. 6 months after that a new standard, HDMI was being said to be the newest and latest upcoming standard. At CES this year HDMI was just beginning to find its way into the many monitors being made. Unfortunately 1394 and DVI are not directly backward compatible while DVI and HDMI are. While it was probably wrong to design the 921 without 1394 output, nevertheless it was; and to go back in and rebuild the 921 output section to include 1394 would not be a very good business move.
ASk yourself this- How much would you pay for a special module to connect to the 921 to be able to use 1394 output with your medium resolution MItsubishi monitor? Lets assume that there is no difference in the observed PQ between component and 1394. How much would you pay?
Some people were said to pay over $1000 for the PM to get 1394 on their Mits. Would you pay $1000 for a PM 1394 for the 921 too?

Why don't you run a poll- Find out how many own 1394 monitors. Find out how many would buy a module for the 921( if it were possible) to get monitor output in 1394 if it cost $1000, Cost $500, Cost $100? We may be dealing with a very small number that does not justify the development cost of the module.

PS- consider that the 169Time for record only is $1000 due to very small numbers of buyers that have to pay for the development and hard costs.

HAVI is not just about connecting to a monitor. It's a protocol that allows you to network your entire AV equipment. e.g. you can have a HAVi compatible disk somewhere on the network and record to it from any recording (921 for instance) device on the network. It also enables you to connect your devices daisy chained, one cable in, one out, nstead of the miriad of cables we need today.
Check out www.havi.org.

#17 OFFLINE   DonLandis

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Posted 15 January 2004 - 11:22 AM

What's HAVi have to do with this 921 application of dishwire for hard drive dump to DVHS VCR? Are you assuminmg that the 921 is HAVi compliant? I have not heard that. I always was told it was a special application with a special purpose.


edit- I posted a poll to see what the numbers really are:

http://www.dbstalk.c...ead.php?t=22418

#18 Guest_fruit2k_*

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Posted 15 January 2004 - 12:38 PM

Don Landis is absolutely correct on this. FireWire (as a DTV interface) is totally dead; the FCC doesn't want it, content providers (i.e. Hollywood and the broadcast industry) hate it and the CE industry doesn't give a rats a** about it now that DVI/HDCP and HDMI have been settled upon as the "solution". Mits, several years ago, picked 1394 to build their architechture around, gambling that 1394 would become "the" interface between source and display. Nothing wrong with what they did, they just picked the wrong horse to bet on.

This is a classic example of the perils of trying design and engineer something while the "standards and requirements" battle is still raging; you run the risk of leaving your customers out in the cold. As Don points out, the whole DTV landscape was different when DISH made their statments about FireWire support. Now that the FCC has "settled" things with some of their recent mandates, you will see very few people (CE-wise, that is) putting FireWire ports on their gear.

Brian

#19 OFFLINE   DonLandis

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Posted 15 January 2004 - 02:10 PM

Brian-

True true true, but 1394 is still the ONLY way to transfer HDTV content in MPEG2 from source to DVHS VCR. Later on, I see USB2.0 giving it a run for the money when something like WM9 gets a foothold on media but they have a lot of ground to cover especially with a USB 2.0 answer to 5C on 1394. For monitors it's out but for recording to DVHS its still the only way.

#20 OFFLINE   comet48

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Posted 15 January 2004 - 08:30 PM

What's HAVi have to do with this 921 application of dishwire for hard drive dump to DVHS VCR? Are you assuminmg that the 921 is HAVi compliant? I have not heard that. I always was told it was a special application with a special purpose.


edit- I posted a poll to see what the numbers really are:

http://www.dbstalk.c...ead.php?t=22418



Don,
Check this link.
http://www.vividlogi...ws/jun2402.html




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