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Advice needed HR34 versus DirectTV Tivo THR22

hr20 drive upgrade

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#26 OFFLINE   Jerry_K

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Posted 24 December 2011 - 01:58 PM

Stuart,

Vis a vis that petition on Tivocommunity. Did you ever visit the Tivo underground, or Deal Database. I had MRV and many other very useful utilities on DirecTiVo for a long time. And the HD TiVos all have MRV. I know from participation that TiVo watched the hacking community very closely and even fed some trusted participants hints to get the units working properly. In turn they got the benefit of learning how to properly implement MRV.

After agonizing and agonizing over going HD, I am going to wait until someone figures out how to activate MRV on the Tivo unit. As it stands I really don't want Whole Home as it is implemented on the HRXX units. It isn't a transfer to another box.

I got a refurb to replace my failing SD DirecTiVo. Unlike the HRXX series, I was able to TiVoWeb into both of my DVRs and copy and paste the Season Pass lists into an Excel spread sheet (Not possible to do without Stuarts famous wood and graphite transfer machine). Transferred any programs we wanted to archive from the failing unit to the second unit (impossible to do in any way with HRXX). Pulled the drive from the failing unit, installed it in the refurb unit. Called DirecTV from a couple miles away from the setup since we had no cell service where we are camped, and a great CSR got the new unit activated and the failed unit removed from our account. Fired up the refurb, waited til this morning for the guide to be updated a bit, and set up all our Season Passes.

If a HRXX fails you lose everything. Not my cup of tea.

Hopefully I am good for a sufficient period of time for the TiVo hackers to figure out MRV on the THR22. I really miss my Series 3 HD TiVos. But there are prices for life on the road and cable feed is one that does not travel with you.

On the other hand, my lovely wife said she would be willing to try to learn a new interface if we had to replace the aging SD DirecTiVo units. She said she learned how to use the Dish stuff at our son's. But she admitted she could not set up a recording on the Dish unit if someone held a gun to her head and threatened to shoot her if she did not record a show. Same at our daughters home with a cable DVR. Could surf programs and watch recordings others made, but could not figure out how to record. Fortunately she is quite happy with SD for now and we are back uip and running on TiVo interface. I am the one aching for HD. I guess I waited three years for the TiVo interface again so a little longer will be fine.

At least there are choices.
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#27 OFFLINE   Shades228

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Posted 24 December 2011 - 04:52 PM

Stuart,

Vis a vis that petition on Tivocommunity. Did you ever visit the Tivo underground, or Deal Database. I had MRV and many other very useful utilities on DirecTiVo for a long time. And the HD TiVos all have MRV. I know from participation that TiVo watched the hacking community very closely and even fed some trusted participants hints to get the units working properly. In turn they got the benefit of learning how to properly implement MRV.

After agonizing and agonizing over going HD, I am going to wait until someone figures out how to activate MRV on the Tivo unit. As it stands I really don't want Whole Home as it is implemented on the HRXX units. It isn't a transfer to another box.

I got a refurb to replace my failing SD DirecTiVo. Unlike the HRXX series, I was able to TiVoWeb into both of my DVRs and copy and paste the Season Pass lists into an Excel spread sheet (Not possible to do without Stuarts famous wood and graphite transfer machine). Transferred any programs we wanted to archive from the failing unit to the second unit (impossible to do in any way with HRXX). Pulled the drive from the failing unit, installed it in the refurb unit. Called DirecTV from a couple miles away from the setup since we had no cell service where we are camped, and a great CSR got the new unit activated and the failed unit removed from our account. Fired up the refurb, waited til this morning for the guide to be updated a bit, and set up all our Season Passes.

If a HRXX fails you lose everything. Not my cup of tea.

Hopefully I am good for a sufficient period of time for the TiVo hackers to figure out MRV on the THR22. I really miss my Series 3 HD TiVos. But there are prices for life on the road and cable feed is one that does not travel with you.

On the other hand, my lovely wife said she would be willing to try to learn a new interface if we had to replace the aging SD DirecTiVo units. She said she learned how to use the Dish stuff at our son's. But she admitted she could not set up a recording on the Dish unit if someone held a gun to her head and threatened to shoot her if she did not record a show. Same at our daughters home with a cable DVR. Could surf programs and watch recordings others made, but could not figure out how to record. Fortunately she is quite happy with SD for now and we are back uip and running on TiVo interface. I am the one aching for HD. I guess I waited three years for the TiVo interface again so a little longer will be fine.

At least there are choices.


I hate to break it to you but this unit will not be hackable like the TiVo's of old. The old TiVo's had the entire software on the HD and required a phone line to get updated. This meant that users could manipulate the upgrade cycles. If a TiVo ever got flagged that the upgrade was done you could never get it back. The new TiVo's have the software built on the chip and can be forced to upgrade through the satellite.

DIRECTV and TiVo will not allow these units to be hacked. Even if a hack did come out it would be addressed quickly and be mandatory that would not be able to be user stopped. Please note that I'm saying it's impossible to hack this machine but I am saying that DIRECTV can make it impossible to use it with hacked software this time.

#28 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 24 December 2011 - 07:06 PM

Stuart,

Vis a vis that petition on Tivocommunity. Did you ever visit the Tivo underground, or Deal Database. I had MRV and many other very useful utilities on DirecTiVo for a long time. And the HD TiVos all have MRV. I know from participation that TiVo watched the hacking community very closely and even fed some trusted participants hints to get the units working properly. In turn they got the benefit of learning how to properly implement MRV.

After agonizing and agonizing over going HD, I am going to wait until someone figures out how to activate MRV on the Tivo unit. As it stands I really don't want Whole Home as it is implemented on the HRXX units. It isn't a transfer to another box.

I got a refurb to replace my failing SD DirecTiVo. Unlike the HRXX series, I was able to TiVoWeb into both of my DVRs and copy and paste the Season Pass lists into an Excel spread sheet (Not possible to do without Stuarts famous wood and graphite transfer machine). Transferred any programs we wanted to archive from the failing unit to the second unit (impossible to do in any way with HRXX). Pulled the drive from the failing unit, installed it in the refurb unit. Called DirecTV from a couple miles away from the setup since we had no cell service where we are camped, and a great CSR got the new unit activated and the failed unit removed from our account. Fired up the refurb, waited til this morning for the guide to be updated a bit, and set up all our Season Passes.

If a HRXX fails you lose everything. Not my cup of tea.

Hopefully I am good for a sufficient period of time for the TiVo hackers to figure out MRV on the THR22. I really miss my Series 3 HD TiVos. But there are prices for life on the road and cable feed is one that does not travel with you.

On the other hand, my lovely wife said she would be willing to try to learn a new interface if we had to replace the aging SD DirecTiVo units. She said she learned how to use the Dish stuff at our son's. But she admitted she could not set up a recording on the Dish unit if someone held a gun to her head and threatened to shoot her if she did not record a show. Same at our daughters home with a cable DVR. Could surf programs and watch recordings others made, but could not figure out how to record. Fortunately she is quite happy with SD for now and we are back uip and running on TiVo interface. I am the one aching for HD. I guess I waited three years for the TiVo interface again so a little longer will be fine.

At least there are choices.


Well, all you have to do on a DirecTV dvr is hit the record button on a show in the guide or while watching something live you want to record to get it to record. Press record twice, and it will record the series. Even easier than a TiVo.

#29 OFFLINE   Jerry_K

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Posted 25 December 2011 - 12:34 AM

Sure wish there was some way to trial the HRXX boxes with a return if not satisfied policy. A nice 90 day trial period would do the trick. One month in I will still be "helping" my lovely wife with this that or the other thing to get what she wants, when she wants it, and where she wants it. The only remote that has ever been a no question from her deal is the TiVo peanut. Anything else takes constant input from me. And the eternal question, "Well why does it work like that?" followed by, "Well it should work right" Right being whatever she thinks as the method that it should follow.

Tried a Harmony with her and gave up. About 80 percent of the time she would have inputs and other things out of sync. I would have to go into the bedroom and cycle through devices to change the settings. Then I would get the "Why don't you show me what you did to make it work?" About two devices in I had visions of divorce attorneys in my future.

Fortunately a TiVo glow remote has a couple of buttons that can "learn" So the peanut can turn on the TV with the TV Power button. Pretty self explanatory, and I have programmed a button to turn on the Receiver. Of course the TiVo is always on so it doesn't need to have anything done to watch TV. Every other TiVo function she taught herself when I was away on a business trip. I came home to find that there was not one hour available to me to record anything. She had more than a hundred season passes running. However, with three additional DirecTiVo units I did record some things in alternate locations. On Series 1 DirecTiVoss I had a dedicated box in my office to record my programs and would move the box to whatever room I wanted to watch TV. When the Series 2 came out and a simple hack could enable MRV all was good in the house. When DirecTV crippled the Series 2 with 6.2.a installed by messing with program guides, it was the same time that the Series 3 standalone arrived. Got five of those with lLifetime and never looked back until we retired, sold our home and are traveling full time in an RV. Had to go back to Satellite and dug out the old DirecTiVos. Waited and waited and waited and waited for the TiVo interface on the HD DirecTV and lo and behold it is as useless as a Series 1 DirecTiVo. No MRV. So I agonized over a Rupert box and decided it is not worth the hassle.
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#30 OFFLINE   Shades228

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Posted 25 December 2011 - 03:48 AM

Rupert Murdock has nothing to do with these. NDS no longer makes the software and he has no decision making power with DIRECTV. I'm not sure what your issue with him is but regardless of that fact the HR series in most aspects is easier than TiVo to use and in some aspects it's not. It's all just what you're used to. Programming a remote to a TV is child's play and shouldn't even be something to worry about.

What will change is he fact that you can't have more than 50 shows setup at a time to record, you don't have wishlists but can do something similar but limited, suggestions, or the TiVo guide where you can see a channels shows in a list view by default (you can do this but it's manual for each channel).

Call and see what options you have in terms of equipment upgrades. Overall I would say that a non TiVo is actually easier to use than a TiVo however you're used to the interface so that's a non factor.

#31 OFFLINE   wingrider01

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Posted 25 December 2011 - 09:53 AM

Sure wish there was some way to trial the HRXX boxes with a return if not satisfied policy. A nice 90 day trial period would do the trick. One month in I will still be "helping" my lovely wife with this that or the other thing to get what she wants, when she wants it, and where she wants it. The only remote that has ever been a no question from her deal is the TiVo peanut. Anything else takes constant input from me. And the eternal question, "Well why does it work like that?" followed by, "Well it should work right" Right being whatever she thinks as the method that it should follow.

Tried a Harmony with her and gave up. About 80 percent of the time she would have inputs and other things out of sync. I would have to go into the bedroom and cycle through devices to change the settings. Then I would get the "Why don't you show me what you did to make it work?" About two devices in I had visions of divorce attorneys in my future.

Fortunately a TiVo glow remote has a couple of buttons that can "learn" So the peanut can turn on the TV with the TV Power button. Pretty self explanatory, and I have programmed a button to turn on the Receiver. Of course the TiVo is always on so it doesn't need to have anything done to watch TV. Every other TiVo function she taught herself when I was away on a business trip. I came home to find that there was not one hour available to me to record anything. She had more than a hundred season passes running. However, with three additional DirecTiVo units I did record some things in alternate locations. On Series 1 DirecTiVoss I had a dedicated box in my office to record my programs and would move the box to whatever room I wanted to watch TV. When the Series 2 came out and a simple hack could enable MRV all was good in the house. When DirecTV crippled the Series 2 with 6.2.a installed by messing with program guides, it was the same time that the Series 3 standalone arrived. Got five of those with lLifetime and never looked back until we retired, sold our home and are traveling full time in an RV. Had to go back to Satellite and dug out the old DirecTiVos. Waited and waited and waited and waited for the TiVo interface on the HD DirecTV and lo and behold it is as useless as a Series 1 DirecTiVo. No MRV. So I agonized over a Rupert box and decided it is not worth the hassle.


so does the directv remotes, wife hs programmed all of them to turn off both the dvr and the tv with a single button, she found it easy to do, me I prefer my Harmony 1100 to handle all the functions.

#32 OFFLINE   Jerry_K

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Posted 25 December 2011 - 10:36 AM

Maybe I will call DirecTV and see if there is a free trial period.
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#33 OFFLINE   Stuart Sweet

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Posted 25 December 2011 - 11:39 AM

Couple of quick comments....

I know that previous directivo devices were hackable to get MRV on them. The new ones are more secure.

The thr22 does not use any of the TiVo remote codes so in order to use the TiVo glo remote you would need to remap every single button.
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#34 OFFLINE   Jerry_K

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Posted 25 December 2011 - 01:01 PM

I know the THR200 is not for us. And I also know that the Present Peanuts will not control it either. That ship has sailed without a rudder as far as we are concerned. No MRV is a true killer.

One more dumb question. Do any of the HRXX units need to be connected to either a phone line or the internet to work at all? I know that some on demand stuff needs a connection but we don't do any on demand stuff. We just want a no surprises DVR with the capability to view recorded programs in both rooms with a display.

We would have to give up a lot of TiVo unique functionality and maybe gain some HRXX unique functions. I am really leary of a unit that will not transfer programs to another unit. We have gotten so used to that with the DirecTiVos and the Series 3 TiVos.
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#35 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 25 December 2011 - 02:01 PM

I know the THR200 is not for us. And I also know that the Present Peanuts will not control it either. That ship has sailed without a rudder as far as we are concerned. No MRV is a true killer.

One more dumb question. Do any of the HRXX units need to be connected to either a phone line or the internet to work at all? I know that some on demand stuff needs a connection but we don't do any on demand stuff. We just want a no surprises DVR with the capability to view recorded programs in both rooms with a display.

We would have to give up a lot of TiVo unique functionality and maybe gain some HRXX unique functions. I am really leary of a unit that will not transfer programs to another unit. We have gotten so used to that with the DirecTiVos and the Series 3 TiVos.


If you set up mrv, you will get Internet connected as well. They need either phone or Ethernet to set up, it does some verification for the installer that way. However, the only need long term for phone is if you want the caller I'd function to work, and for Ethernet, you also get some other features that you may or may not use, like tv aps, media share, and some others. Bt that comes with the install, and doesn't hinder your network in any way, so it's not really an issue.

As for ease of use, I don't know how anything could be easier than a drv remote. There are buttons on the remote that take you directly to the guide or the playlist, and hitting the rec button while on the guide to record something is easier and faster than a TiVo. If fact, your wife will say, that's all I have to do? Well that was easy! The learning curve may take a little while if she wants to do more things, like mess with the series manager, but the basics, she will figure those out very quickly.

#36 OFFLINE   Shades228

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Posted 25 December 2011 - 03:02 PM

Maybe I will call DirecTV and see if there is a free trial period.


There is no such thing as a free trial period. If you don't like it you can send it back but you'll still be under an agreement.

You could buy an owned HD DVR and see how it goes, you would need an access card for $20 and you will want to search around here for posts on how to buy an owned receiver, to try it out. That way if you don't like it at all after a few months you could sell it again to recoup some of the money and you're not in an agreement. If you end up liking it you could then call DIRECTV and see if there's an upgrade available for you for the whole home offer and convert everything over.

#37 OFFLINE   samrs

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Posted 25 December 2011 - 04:11 PM

If you set up mrv, you will get Internet connected as well. They need either phone or Ethernet to set up, it does some verification for the installer that way......


Only if you desire an internet connection and have a router. The only thing a phone or internet connection does for an installer is increase his responder percentage(IPPV) which for some is tied into pay increases and decreases.

#38 OFFLINE   Richierich

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Posted 25 December 2011 - 04:50 PM

I am really leary of a unit that will not transfer programs to another unit. We have gotten so used to that with the DirecTiVos and the Series 3 TiVos.


With Whole Home DVR Service (MRV) you do Not need to transfer Recordings between devices as you can watch any recording on any other DVR on the DVR/Receiver you are on.

It's as if it was Recorded on the Host DVR/Receiver you are watching, so why do you need to transfer a Recording which would just take up space on 2 devices?
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#39 OFFLINE   midas69

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Posted 25 December 2011 - 05:19 PM

It's as if it was Recorded on the Host DVR/Receiver you are watching, so why do you need to transfer a Recording which would just take up space on 2 devices?


As he mentioned earlier, there are two possible reasons. One, to move a program off an almost full DVR to one with more room. The other reason would be to move programs off a DVR that is obviously starting to fail.

I can tell you this, I've run into the latter problem a few times. Sometimes when one is failing, other times when I'm ready to swap out for new equipment. I can assure you, the WAF would have been much higher if I had that option.

#40 OFFLINE   Richierich

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Posted 25 December 2011 - 05:28 PM

I can tell you this, I've run into the latter problem a few times. Sometimes when one is failing, other times when I'm ready to swap out for new equipment. I can assure you, the WAF would have been much higher if I had that option.


I have run into the Failing or Failed DVR Situation Many Many Times and I have Relentlessly tried to get Directv to Allow Us and to Enable Us to Enjoy an Archival Process where we could Offload Recorded Content onto a Large External USB Drive for the Purposes of Archiving certain recordings so we could Restore them in the event of a Failed Hard Drive which after replacing we could then Restore those Recordings back to the New Hard Drive.
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#41 OFFLINE   Jerry_K

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Posted 25 December 2011 - 05:30 PM

Thanks Midas, that is exactly why you want MRV and not streaming.

Since we live in an RV there is never an installer. And getting internet to a DVR is almost impossible. No phone lines ever. Hardly ever any phone coverage for either ATT or Verizon and we have one of each just in case one or the other is in cell range. Where we are now we have no cell phone service, we have an internet connection that is very slow and you have to pay for each device you hook up. Kind of a pain but the rest of life on the road just makes all that not a problem at all.
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#42 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 25 December 2011 - 06:36 PM

Thanks Midas, that is exactly why you want MRV and not streaming.

Since we live in an RV there is never an installer. And getting internet to a DVR is almost impossible. No phone lines ever. Hardly ever any phone coverage for either ATT or Verizon and we have one of each just in case one or the other is in cell range. Where we are now we have no cell phone service, we have an internet connection that is very slow and you have to pay for each device you hook up. Kind of a pain but the rest of life on the road just makes all that not a problem at all.


Also, you can get a rv package I believe, tha twill get you the main national networks.

I don't want transfer over streaming, but I would like both, but only for a failing hard drive or changing dvrs. With mrv, if you set up your sl's right, you shouldn't run into storage issues unless you have full dvrs everywhere. Also, you can get a esata drive to have more storage space. it's be a nice feature, but that's not a deal killer. True dvr failures are so far and few between.

#43 OFFLINE   Richierich

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Posted 26 December 2011 - 08:03 AM

Also, you can get a esata drive to have more storage space. it's be a nice feature, but that's not a deal killer. True dvr failures are so far and few between.


And if you OWN your DVR you can just open it up and install a Brand New 2 TB Drive and have Tons of Storage like I do.

We have instructions here at DBSTALK that show and tell how to do it if you OWN your DVR and are not leasing it.
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#44 OFFLINE   Jerry_K

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Posted 26 December 2011 - 11:32 AM

Lots of good information. Whether I like what that information says or not.

I see HR24s for sale for $179 on some sites. If bought that way would I "own" it? And some sites say that activating the "owned" DVR still puts you into a two year contract.

I guess three of the 24s would give us at least a modicum of season passes and good storage with 2T drives. We would just have to pare our season passes way down. About 300 now on two DirecTiVo units. I suppose I would get used to the lack of 30 second skip and my lovely wife might even like the 30 second slip. I use the skip a whole lot. We record the super bowl and I find you can watch a whole football game in 17 minutes. Every huddle is almost exactly 30 seconds. We only watch the super bowl to see the commercials. Kids games are not anything either of us would watch on purpose.

And the 90 minute buffers, if recorded when you decide you like the show for whatever reason, would be nice. Once in a while, when we turn on the TV some show or other is on that we want to record and our current TiVo units pick up the buffer along with the remainder of the program. The Dish unit in our sons home did not pick up the buffer and only recorded from the button push. Lots of times my lovely wife sees something she wants to show me later and gets it with the buffer.

I have read some info on DBSTalk about controlling the HR series with a DirecTV remote. I have seen a 64 or a 65 in the model number of the remote and some have both IR and RF modes. Do those with the RF mode have a repeater for other hidden equipment like our Pioneer receivers? Currently we leave the cabinet door open in the living room to get IR to the receiver and have an X10 repeater in the bedroom to access the receiver in the closet. I would guess that if one is using RF for the HR24 that the TV and AVR control would still be IR.

At this time the 34 is really not a good buy, and a single point failure wipes out everything. I like distributed processing so at least one failure doesn't knock you out completely. An example is our cell phone service. Since we camp full time we many times have bad or no cell phone service. We found as we moved west that ATT is better in some remote parts of the east of the country and Verizon is better in remote parts of the west of the country. So I switched my service to Verizon and kept my lovely wife on ATT. Now we sometimes have at least one phone working with a trip of less than 20 miles. In our present spot we only have to go a couple hundred yards to get service. Me by the kids activity center and my lovely wife on the other end of the campground. But I digress.

I apologize for all the detail questions, but it is a big investment and a big change to go from something one has used for eleven years to another platform altogether. I don't mind spending the money, I put about $4K into Series 3 TiVos to convert from DirecTV to cable when we had our grounded home. I am very leary of getting into a couple thousand dollars and finding that the performance is a downgrade. I am an old fashioned run what ya brung sort of guy. The old saying for cars is "If it won't run, chrome it." It has to be fast and ultra reliable. No missed recordings, no recordings deleted by the machine. On that note the lack of deleted folders is another thing we will have to get used to. We will have to be sure we don't delete until both parties agree the program should be lost forever.

I have gotten so old I have to take money out of a retirement account. So maybe HD on the TVs would be in order and would not eat into our current budget.
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#45 OFFLINE   Richierich

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Posted 26 December 2011 - 12:20 PM

The HR24s will be Leased DVRs as you can't buy HR24s.

Also, try to keep your posts to a mimimum as Long Posts tend to always be Ignored.
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#46 OFFLINE   Jerry_K

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Posted 26 December 2011 - 12:37 PM

So this is a lease? I will keep my questions to one at a time in multiple posts. Thanks

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#47 OFFLINE   Richierich

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Posted 26 December 2011 - 12:50 PM

So this is a lease? I will keep my questions to one at a time in multiple posts. Thanks

http://www.amazon.co...Q/ref=pd_cp_e_2


Yes, that is a Leased Unit and unless they specifically state that it is Owned then it is probably a Leased Unit, especially at that price.

If they state that it is Owned then get the RID # of the DVR and then call the Directv Access Card Dept. and ask them if that DVR matching that RID # is Valid and Owned and nothing is owed on the Account such as a Balance Due.

Then you pay $20 for a New Access Card and have the Access Card Dept. register the DVR as Owned in their records.

Edited by Richierich, 26 December 2011 - 01:15 PM.

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#48 OFFLINE   Jerry_K

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Posted 26 December 2011 - 01:09 PM

Thanks Richierich.

I see that there are some "Owned" units for sale on eBay. And one seller does list the RID and encourages customers to call DTV with the number to determine exactly what you say.

Read all the reviews on Amazon and some who switched from the TiVo interface say the HR24 is tolerable. The older HR units are just not tolerable because of lag in executing commands.
Genie (nee HR34) 2TB Internal, Magnavox NR1601, Sharp 40" LED
HR24 2TB Internal, Magnavox NR1501, Sansui 32" LCD

#49 OFFLINE   Richierich

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Posted 26 December 2011 - 01:17 PM

I have 5 HR24-500s and they work Great especially with the New Directv HDUI.

I also have 2 HR23-500s and they also work much better and faster now with the New HDUI.

If you buy an "Owned" HR24 you can then replace the Internal Hard Drive with a 2 TB Drive and then you are Good To Go.

I have 7 DVRs with 13 TBs of Storage Capacity on them with 350 Series Links.
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#50 OFFLINE   Jerry_K

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Posted 26 December 2011 - 01:28 PM

double post. This campground internet service is like an HR20. So slow to respond one does not know what happens before the timeout message.

Edited by Jerry_K, 26 December 2011 - 01:49 PM.

Genie (nee HR34) 2TB Internal, Magnavox NR1601, Sharp 40" LED
HR24 2TB Internal, Magnavox NR1501, Sansui 32" LCD





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