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Advice needed HR34 versus DirectTV Tivo THR22

hr20 drive upgrade

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86 replies to this topic

#51 OFFLINE   Jerry_K

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Posted 26 December 2011 - 01:48 PM

Thanks,

It looks like a minimum of three HR24s. And we will have to reduce our appetite for what will be Series Links.

Another question. Does the HR24 have problems recording programs that are back to back on the same channel? For example Good Wife and CSI Miami. Or NCIS and NCIS Los Angeles. One reviewer on Amazon said the HR24 could not distinguish such programs.

Can the end of the program be extended like on the TiVo. Useless games broadcasts ruin all recordings that follow. I added 2 hours to CSI Miami Season Pass to get both Good Wife and CSI Miami in total.
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#52 ONLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 26 December 2011 - 01:53 PM

Thanks,

It looks like a minimum of three HR24s. And we will have to reduce our appetite for what will be Series Links.

Another question. Does the HR24 have problems recording programs that are back to back on the same channel? For example Good Wife and CSI Miami. Or NCIS and NCIS Los Angeles. One reviewer on Amazon said the HR24 could not distinguish such programs. I am going to do another here as well. Can the end of the program be extended like on the TiVo. Dumb football ruins all recordings that follow. I added 2 hours to CSI Miami to get both Good Wife and CSI Miami in total.


This is where the hr really beats up on TiVo actually. Yes,you can extend a recording by up to 3 hours, and you can have it start early. It also always records if there are no conflicts an extra 30 seconds before the start of a program, And an extra 90 seconds after the program is scheduled to end, again,assuming no conflicts.

As for one show after another, say you set a show on channel 4 to record at 8 and extend it 3 hours. You can still set another show to record at 9 on channel 4 and have it extend for another 3 hours, and even though those shows overlap big time,you will get two separate recordings for the full amount of time for each show, as long as they are on the same channel.

Now the one thing lacking on a hr that TiVo has and is great, is the clipping feature, for shows that run over by a min or two on different channels that create conflicts. But with an hr34, that issue is probably few and far between.

#53 ONLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 26 December 2011 - 02:04 PM

Lots of good information. Whether I like what that information says or not.

I see HR24s for sale for $179 on some sites. If bought that way would I "own" it? And some sites say that activating the "owned" DVR still puts you into a two year contract.

I guess three of the 24s would give us at least a modicum of season passes and good storage with 2T drives. We would just have to pare our season passes way down. About 300 now on two DirecTiVo units. I suppose I would get used to the lack of 30 second skip and my lovely wife might even like the 30 second slip. I use the skip a whole lot. We record the super bowl and I find you can watch a whole football game in 17 minutes. Every huddle is almost exactly 30 seconds. We only watch the super bowl to see the commercials. Kids games are not anything either of us would watch on purpose.

And the 90 minute buffers, if recorded when you decide you like the show for whatever reason, would be nice. Once in a while, when we turn on the TV some show or other is on that we want to record and our current TiVo units pick up the buffer along with the remainder of the program. The Dish unit in our sons home did not pick up the buffer and only recorded from the button push. Lots of times my lovely wife sees something she wants to show me later and gets it with the buffer.

I have read some info on DBSTalk about controlling the HR series with a DirecTV remote. I have seen a 64 or a 65 in the model number of the remote and some have both IR and RF modes. Do those with the RF mode have a repeater for other hidden equipment like our Pioneer receivers? Currently we leave the cabinet door open in the living room to get IR to the receiver and have an X10 repeater in the bedroom to access the receiver in the closet. I would guess that if one is using RF for the HR24 that the TV and AVR control would still be IR.

At this time the 34 is really not a good buy, and a single point failure wipes out everything. I like distributed processing so at least one failure doesn't knock you out completely. An example is our cell phone service. Since we camp full time we many times have bad or no cell phone service. We found as we moved west that ATT is better in some remote parts of the east of the country and Verizon is better in remote parts of the west of the country. So I switched my service to Verizon and kept my lovely wife on ATT. Now we sometimes have at least one phone working with a trip of less than 20 miles. In our present spot we only have to go a couple hundred yards to get service. Me by the kids activity center and my lovely wife on the other end of the campground. But I digress.

I apologize for all the detail questions, but it is a big investment and a big change to go from something one has used for eleven years to another platform altogether. I don't mind spending the money, I put about $4K into Series 3 TiVos to convert from DirecTV to cable when we had our grounded home. I am very leary of getting into a couple thousand dollars and finding that the performance is a downgrade. I am an old fashioned run what ya brung sort of guy. The old saying for cars is "If it won't run, chrome it." It has to be fast and ultra reliable. No missed recordings, no recordings deleted by the machine. On that note the lack of deleted folders is another thing we will have to get used to. We will have to be sure we don't delete until both parties agree the program should be lost forever.

I have gotten so old I have to take money out of a retirement account. So maybe HD on the TVs would be in order and would not eat into our current budget.


All hr has both 30 slip and 30 skip.

Hr will record the buffer area of a program if you turn it on and hit record.

There is one universal remote that will work rf native with DirecTV, that may be a way to go, but the DirecTV remotes only work rf with DirecTV receivers.

Why not get one hr34 and two hr24? Same monthly costs as three hr24. Heck, if you don't mind up front fees, just get 3 hr34 when you can, again, same monthly cost as having three hr24. That'd get you your 300 season passes and five tuners in each unit to avoid. Almost all conflicts.

#54 OFFLINE   Jerry_K

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Posted 26 December 2011 - 04:05 PM

A 34 and a 24 could work if we can go on a Series pass diet. Would have to wait a whole lot longer until the 34 was readily available on the used and owned market. Owned 24s are sub $300 now and 2T drives are about $120 so an upgraded 24 would have a lot more room than a 34. And it would be owned instead of not owned.
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#55 OFFLINE   Richierich

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Posted 26 December 2011 - 04:38 PM

A 34 and a 24 could work if we can go on a Series pass diet. Would have to wait a whole lot longer until the 34 was readily available on the used and owned market. Owned 24s are sub $300 now and 2T drives are about $120 so an upgraded 24 would have a lot more room than a 34. And it would be owned instead of not owned.


I totally agree with your assessment.

I Own my DVRs and have Upgraded their DVRs to 2 TB Drives so I Never have to worry about storage limitations and I enjoy not having to constantly monitor what to keep and what I need to delete.

I still have to Perform a Weekly Maintenance Process to get rid of recordings that I no longer need but that is no Big Deal and I actually enjoy it as I get to see what all I have in my Playlists.
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#56 OFFLINE   Shades228

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Posted 26 December 2011 - 05:38 PM

The only reason to own a unit is because you want to be able to disconnect it and keep it. I only recommended it prior because you wanted to try it out. If you're thinking of just swapping it all I'd stick to a lease model to enjoy the savings.

You can add external HD's to all of the HD DVR's so you don't need to own one to expand the capacity either.

If you do want to own them I would expect some good sales on owned receivers in February.

#57 OFFLINE   Richierich

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Posted 26 December 2011 - 05:47 PM

It is Quieter if you Replace the Internal Drive on an Owned DVR with a Larger Hard Drive and there have been problems when the DVR Reboots and the eSATA Controller takes to long to signal the DVR that it is connected so it Boots up with the Internal Drive.

I could hear my External Drive but I don't hear my Internal Drive plus I don't have that Extra Hardware Device hanging off my DVR.

That is why I switched from an eSATA External Hard Drive to Replacing the Internal Hard Drive in an Owned DVR.

Also, cheaper as you don't have to buy an External Enclosure that eventually will fail before the drive fails.
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#58 OFFLINE   Jerry_K

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Posted 26 December 2011 - 05:49 PM

The only reason to own a unit is because you want to be able to disconnect it and keep it. I only recommended it prior because you wanted to try it out. If you're thinking of just swapping it all I'd stick to a lease model to enjoy the savings.

You can add external HD's to all of the HD DVR's so you don't need to own one to expand the capacity either.

If you do want to own them I would expect some good sales on owned receivers in February.


Owned is the only option for me. I have never had a leased piece of viewing or listening equipment and hope I never will in the future.

And when every bit of what you own, has to go into a travel trailer and a pickup truck, another hundred cubic inches of space is a luxury not to be squandered. Have had eSata expansion with the Series 3 TiVo. I don't trust the connections enough to take it down a rough road in a trailer. It is amazing how many things come unglued and unplugged.

And yes when folks start replacing a 24 with a 34, owned ones, maybe even already expanded, could become a value buy. Thanks for that little hint.
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#59 OFFLINE   Richierich

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Posted 26 December 2011 - 06:09 PM

Owned is the only option for me.

I don't trust the connections enough to take it down a rough road in a trailer. It is amazing how many things come unglued and unplugged.

And yes when folks start replacing a 24 with a 34, owned ones, maybe even already expanded, could become a value buy. Thanks for that little hint.


Yes, I am buying a 2007 Country Coach Affinity and I would not like my DVRs being connected to an External Drive and then rattling around and it comes disconnected or when it Reboots it doesn't recognize the External Drive and Reboots with the Internal Drive.

Just my thoughts on what is Best for You!!!
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#60 OFFLINE   Jerry_K

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Posted 26 December 2011 - 06:17 PM

In my real home theater I had four 18 inch subwoofers in an infinite baffle. The eSATA cable on the Series 3 came out one time after a nice booming movie had been played.

And love the Country Coach. There is an Affinity parked just up the road from us now. Nice looking RV.
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#61 OFFLINE   hhh222

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Posted 27 December 2011 - 10:16 AM

Stuart....I've seen where some people have said they can't get the 30 sec skip to work on the THR22. What's your experience?

Thanks.

#62 OFFLINE   Stuart Sweet

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Posted 27 December 2011 - 10:37 AM

I haven't been able to get it to work either.
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#63 OFFLINE   Jeddem

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 06:08 PM

Having owned an old-school SD DirecTiVo for about 6 years, I'm now excited by the opportunity to upgrade to and HD DirecTiVo (thr22). Before pulling the trigger, however, I have a couple of questions that I think will be child's play for the experts on this thread.

The background is that when I shifted to DirecTV 6 years ago, I tried the DirecTV DVR and found the basic functioning (starting/stopping, fast forward, season pass) so erratic that I returned it and bought an SD DirecTiVo, which still works very well.

I'm considering either a thr22 or whatever the current DirecTV DVR is (hr24?). I think the HR34 would be overkill.

My questions are about the basics:

a) How instantaneous is the starting and stopping (particularly from fast forward)? This works perfectly on my old TiVo, making it easy to skip commercials or otherwise cue up a specific moment in the recording. This was atrocious on the old DirecTV DVR. I recently tried an ATT U-Verse DVR at a friend's house and it was better than the old DirecTV DVR, but still not perfect.

B) Is the slowest fast forward speed continuous and watchable? On my old TiVo, it seems continuous (not single frames with skips in between) and is very useful for watching sporting events in much less time. The ATT U-Verse DVR fast forward uses single frames and skips, which is not nearly as useful.

c) How robust is the Season Pass-type functionality? My old DirecTiVo seems pretty smart about about not missing episodes and not recording multiple copies. The old DirecTV DVR was horrible, frequently missing episodes.

My questions are:

1) With respect to issues a), B), and c) above, will the thr22 work as well as my old SD DirecTiVo? Will I see differences in how it works on these dimensions?

2) How does the current DirecTV DVR stack up on these issues? The one I tried 6 years ago was a disaster. Reviews on Amazon suggest that more recent DVRs have improved on these dimensions but still have problems. What has your experience been? If the DirecTV DVR does the basics well now, it appears to have other advantages over the HD DirecTiVo.

I feel silly having waited 6 years for HD because I wanted DirecTV and didn't trust basic functionality of the DirecTV DVR. Now that there's an HD DirecTiVo, I'm ready to go, but I want to be sure I'm making the right decision.

Thanks for your help, everyone!

#64 OFFLINE   midas69

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 07:15 PM

The THR22 is better with regards to all 3 of your questions. But the HR-24 isn't terrible. It's just not as good.

a) FF on the Tivo only offers 3 speeds compared to 4 on the HR. But the highest speed on the HR is almost impossible to use unless you're just looking to move quickly. I've found the jump back just too far on the top speed to the point that I can be a full minute behind where I want it to be. The 3rd speed on the HR seems a little slower than the THR, but the jump back timing is pretty good for my reaction times. But, and this to me is big, the HR has visual information during fast forwarding. I don't know how else to describe it other than it's just choppier. Overall, win for the THR.

B) Honestly I haven't tried this lately on the HR, but it's perfect on the THR. You can turn on closed captioning and watch a whole show that way if you want.

c) The Tivo is a big time winner in this category. First, the HR has a hard limit of 50 season passes/wishlists. If you need more you'd need to jump to the HR34 which has a limit of 50. No limit that I'm aware of on the Tivo.

The HR has improved a lot with regards to missing programs. It was pretty bad in the beginning, but it's not really an issue now, at least with season passes. But I've had a few issues lately with wishlists (on the HR they are called keyword searches). I only use them for sports, and here's where the problems start.

First, I've just had occasions where nothing recording, nothing in the history, it's just a complete miss. The second problem really annoys me. The HR boxes don't care what channels you get or what channels you tell it you get. So, want to record a football game? Well it might record on your local channel, or it might try recording on the Sunday Ticket channels. Want to record a baseball, basketball or hockey game? It might record from your local channel, or it might try recording from whatever the equivalent to Sunday ticket is for those. Or it might try to call record from the regional sports network of the other team.

Now they do have a nice feature called Game Search that is supposed to recognize that the game is blacked out on the channel it's trying to record on and attempt to find another channel. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't. And when it does work, it may or may not recognize the extra hour you told it to add to the recording.

c (part 2)) Multiple copies. Much of this is dependent on the guide data available. And since both units use the same guide data they will share many of the same problems. But a few years ago I setup a season pass on my HR box for Mad Money on CNBC. It's broadcast twice a day and the HR would always record both shows. I quickly killed the season pass and went to a manual recording. I just got my THR a few weeks ago and the season pass only records the first episode of the day. Honestly I don't know if the HR still records both or not, but the THR does not.

There's no doubt that the THR is lacking many features offered in the HR boxes. But for the things that both do, I can't think of anything that the HR does better.

#65 OFFLINE   Jeddem

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 07:34 PM

Wow, Midas, thanks so much for the quick and on-point response! It sounds like - in these specific areas - I won't be disappointed with the new TiVo (relative to my old TiVo) and the new TiVo still has an edge over the DirecTV DVR. Your comments are *really* helpful. Thanks!

#66 OFFLINE   midas69

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 07:57 PM

Wow, Midas, thanks so much for the quick and on-point response! It sounds like - in these specific areas - I won't be disappointed with the new TiVo (relative to my old TiVo) and the new TiVo still has an edge over the DirecTV DVR. Your comments are *really* helpful. Thanks!


No problem, glad to help. The HR box is really a nice box overall, please don't get the wrong impression. Compared to 5 years ago, they've done a great job. But I'm extremely happy with the THR.

#67 OFFLINE   Jeddem

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 12:15 AM

The THR22 is better with regards to all 3 of your questions. But the HR-24 isn't terrible. It's just not as good.

a) ... But, and this to me is big, the HR has visual information during fast forwarding. I don't know how else to describe it other than it's just choppier. Overall, win for the THR.


Actually, Midas, I realize that I didn't exactly understand this point. Are you saying that the HR (DirecTV DVR) is choppier than the THR (TiVo) during fast forwarding, and that this is a problem? Or are you saying something else? And what do you mean by "the HR has visual information during fast forwarding"? And is it big-good or big-bad? Thanks!

#68 OFFLINE   midas69

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 05:12 AM

Actually, Midas, I realize that I didn't exactly understand this point. Are you saying that the HR (DirecTV DVR) is choppier than the THR (TiVo) during fast forwarding, and that this is a problem? Or are you saying something else? And what do you mean by "the HR has visual information during fast forwarding"? And is it big-good or big-bad? Thanks!


Yea, I guess I missed a word in that description. The HR seems to have LESS visual information, kind of like less frames per second. So yes, it's choppier. The THR is better and easier to tell what's going on while fast forwarding.

#69 OFFLINE   toms111la

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 01:19 PM

I am considering getting HR34. I have a few questions.

1. I have read that the HR34 works ok with the AM21 to allow watching and recording of OTA broadcasts. Since the HR34 can record up to five shows at once, is there any limitation as to how many can be OTA? I live in a small market that doesn't offer HD locals but I can receive all locals in HD OTA.

2. Does anyone have any insite into increasing the Hard Drive to 2 TB or larger?

3. I currently have an HR20-100, HR24-100 (with AM21) and an H25 all set up for whole house. I aslo have two HR10-250 unit that I use almost exclusivly for OTA HD recordings. I am getting close to retiring the HR10's.

4. Is there any problem with using the HR20-100 with the HR34. I saw something about this but my HR20-100 has the DECA Package for HR20-100 from weekknees.
See http://www.weaknees....20-deca-754.jpg

With this, it works fine with the whole house set up.

#70 OFFLINE   Stuart Sweet

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 02:16 PM

1. I have read that the HR34 works ok with the AM21 to allow watching and recording of OTA broadcasts. Since the HR34 can record up to five shows at once, is there any limitation as to how many can be OTA? I live in a small market that doesn't offer HD locals but I can receive all locals in HD OTA.

No limit that I know of.

2. Does anyone have any insite into increasing the Hard Drive to 2 TB or larger?

It can't be done unfortunately. It's an OS restriction.

4. Is there any problem with using the HR20-100 with the HR34. I saw something about this but my HR20-100 has the DECA Package for HR20-100 from weekknees.
See http://www.weaknees....20-deca-754.jpg

If you can share programming from your other DVRs then you should have no problem sharing programming from the HR34.
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#71 ONLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 02:18 PM

I am considering getting HR34. I have a few questions.

1. I have read that the HR34 works ok with the AM21 to allow watching and recording of OTA broadcasts. Since the HR34 can record up to five shows at once, is there any limitation as to how many can be OTA? I live in a small market that doesn't offer HD locals but I can receive all locals in HD OTA.

2. Does anyone have any insite into increasing the Hard Drive to 2 TB or larger?

3. I currently have an HR20-100, HR24-100 (with AM21) and an H25 all set up for whole house. I aslo have two HR10-250 unit that I use almost exclusivly for OTA HD recordings. I am getting close to retiring the HR10's.

4. Is there any problem with using the HR20-100 with the HR34. I saw something about this but my HR20-100 has the DECA Package for HR20-100 from weekknees.
See http://www.weaknees....20-deca-754.jpg

With this, it works fine with the whole house set up.


1. With an an21 the hr34 can still only record up to two ota channels at one time, and still no more than five total feeds from between the two sources.

2 esata works fine with the hr34 just as it does with the other hrs. 2tb is the limit at this time, and probably forever.

3. How many tvs in your house do you have, and how many channels do you ever really record at once?

4 Any hr will work with any hr for mrv, per hr24 units must have a deca is all.

Do you know how your system is wired currently? Swim8, etc? Do you have and use mrv today?

#72 ONLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 02:20 PM

No limit that I know of.

It can't be done unfortunately. It's an OS restriction.

If you can share programming from your other DVRs then you should have no problem sharing programming from the HR34.


What? I thought the am21 was limited to recording two ota at once, no matter what it's hooked up to. Did that change? Can you record five ota at once now?

And i think he meant can you use an esata at all, and then what's the largest. Maybe he can clarify for us.

#73 OFFLINE   Richierich

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 02:50 PM

Stuart, are you saying that you can't Replace the 1 TB Internal Drive with a 2 TB Drive if you Own the HR34?

I thought you could Replace your Internal Drive with a 2 TB Drive is you Own it or hook up an eSATA External Enclosure with a 2 TB Drive and be done with it!!! :)
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#74 OFFLINE   toms111la

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 03:21 PM

Thanks for all the comments. A few of the questions answered:

"Do you know how your system is wired currently? Swim8, etc? Do you have and use mrv today?"

I have a Swim16 switch connected which is connected through to Zinwell 6x8 Multiswitch to allow enough leads to the older DVR's. I do have mrv working with the three newer boxes.

I was asking about esata drive upgrade and also interested in the posibility of installing a larger drive internally.

Also, it makes some sense to me that the AM21 would only allow 2 OTA's at a time because it was introduced to allow OTA after DirecTV stopped including that in their boxes which prior to the H34 could only record two at a time.

Edited by toms111la, 23 January 2012 - 03:32 PM.


#75 OFFLINE   litzdog911

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 08:09 PM

What? I thought the am21 was limited to recording two ota at once, no matter what it's hooked up to. Did that change? Can you record five ota at once now?

And i think he meant can you use an esata at all, and then what's the largest. Maybe he can clarify for us.


????
The AM21 only has two off-air tuners inside. How can it record more channels than two?
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