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SWM self-upgrade help


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30 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   stumbleshoe

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 08:06 AM

Hi,

I need some help on an SWM upgrade plan and hoped the experts here could review my plan. I want to do this myself because I had a less than great experience with DirecTV installers in my area and I have the basic skills needed.

I currently have:

- SL3 Triple LNB disk with 4 outputs
- Zinwell WB68
- 2 HR24 and 1 H24 receivers, B band converters at each location

I'd like to switch to an SWM install to simplify the setup - I have 4 RG6 runs that go from a demarc box outside to a central structured panel that houses the WB68, which has RG6 runs to the three receiver locations.

I've seen kits on EBay that sell:

- a SWM SL3 Triple LNB
- a power inserter
- an 8-way splitter

Is that all I need equipment wise to switch ?
Will I need to re-aim the dish after switching LNBs ?

Based on drawings/discussions I've read here, and assuming that is all the equipment I need, my plan is:

1 Power off and disconnect all receivers and the WB68.
2 Swap LNBs, use one of the existing 4 RG6 runs to my structured panel
3 Place the power inserter at the end of that run in the panel and feed its output into the splitter
4 Connect the existing room runs to the splitter
5 Remove any B band converters
6 Power up one receiver and check dish alignment
7 Power up the rest of the receivers

Does that sound right ? Am I missing a step ? Suggestions ?

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#2 ONLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 08:24 AM

You seem to have it right.
If the dish is aligned well now and you don't knock it out of alignment, you should be able to "simply" swap the LNB.
Not sure how long your cables are, but it doesn't look like you need a 8-way splitter and using a 4-way might be better.
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#3 OFFLINE   WestDC

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 08:44 AM

You may wish to get a SWIM 8

http://www.ebay.com/...a#ht_500wt_1272

That way you won't have to touch the dish.
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#4 OFFLINE   DarkLogix

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 09:21 AM

I would get a SWM8 or SWM16 (check e-bay for prices)

reason being is that if you swap the LNB theres a risk that the dish will go out of alignment

so I'd put the SWM8 in place of the WB68 then put a 2way splitter in on the SWM2 port (assuming that the SWM8 is green label) and use the power inserter on SWM1 and then just remove the BBC's and only use Sat1 on the DVR's

#5 OFFLINE   bdodds

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 11:52 AM

@ Darklogic - I use a SWM8 for 2 HR24 recievers. Are you suggesting that I should use the only the PI on the SWM1/PWR port and split the recievers off the SWM2 port? Now I have the recievers split off the PI.

#6 ONLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 11:55 AM

@ Darklogic - I use a SWM8 for 2 HR24 recievers. Are you suggesting that I should use the only the PI on the SWM1/PWR port and split the recievers off the SWM2 port? Now I have the recievers split off the PI.

While I'm not him, you're fine doing it the way you are.
A.K.A VOS

#7 OFFLINE   DarkLogix

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 12:25 PM

@ Darklogic - I use a SWM8 for 2 HR24 recievers. Are you suggesting that I should use the only the PI on the SWM1/PWR port and split the recievers off the SWM2 port? Now I have the recievers split off the PI.


I would just try to balance them

as the SWM8 has a built in splitter and its good to use the smallest splitter you can and still get the connections you need

on the OP's setup he has 3 recivers
he'll likely want to add a CCK-W at some point, and I'd hope/guess the chance of there being a UPS near where his internet connection is are good

so it would end up with 2ways
with the PI near the internet connection so if theres a UPS then the PI can benefit from a battery backup to help ensure constant power to the SWM8/LNB

and if he doesn't have a CCK-W yet then it would also be near the UPS

withonly 2 recivers I'd put one on each port and the one that is close to an internet link or has a UPS would get to be on SWM1

#8 ONLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 12:32 PM

"Personally" I think there is too much being made out of all of this.
Sure you don't want to use large splitters and long coax runs, as there is only about 30 dB of loss in the total runs, before the receivers start having problems.

The SWM8 was the first model to come out and was designed for commercial use, where they'd get stacked by the dozen, in some cases.

They can be powered through the #3 legacy port, which is used in the commercial installs, so there isn't a PI in a unit to be turned off.
They're the only SWiM to have dual outputs which helped for the longer runs in MDU setups.
Residential SWiMs are the LNB & the SWiM-16.
A.K.A VOS

#9 OFFLINE   wallfishman

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 12:40 PM

Hi,

I need some help on an SWM upgrade plan and hoped the experts here could review my plan. I want to do this myself because I had a less than great experience with DirecTV installers in my area and I have the basic skills needed.

I currently have:

- SL3 Triple LNB disk with 4 outputs
- Zinwell WB68
- 2 HR24 and 1 H24 receivers, B band converters at each location

I'd like to switch to an SWM install to simplify the setup - I have 4 RG6 runs that go from a demarc box outside to a central structured panel that houses the WB68, which has RG6 runs to the three receiver locations.

I've seen kits on EBay that sell:

- a SWM SL3 Triple LNB
- a power inserter
- an 8-way splitter

Is that all I need equipment wise to switch ?
Will I need to re-aim the dish after switching LNBs ?

Based on drawings/discussions I've read here, and assuming that is all the equipment I need, my plan is:

1 Power off and disconnect all receivers and the WB68.
2 Swap LNBs, use one of the existing 4 RG6 runs to my structured panel
3 Place the power inserter at the end of that run in the panel and feed its output into the splitter
4 Connect the existing room runs to the splitter
5 Remove any B band converters
6 Power up one receiver and check dish alignment
7 Power up the rest of the receivers

Does that sound right ? Am I missing a step ? Suggestions ?


the only thing i see is dont hook up both lines going to the hddvrs. just hook up one of them to the swm splitter, that way you have 3 connections and all the rest are terminated. you dont want to hookup all 5 lines and leave 2 just hanging there unterminated.

#10 OFFLINE   WestDC

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 12:52 PM

This How I converted my Legacy System and Home network MRV to SWM & Deca.

2-HR22-100
1-HR21-200
1-H20 /BSF
1-D10

Edited by WestDC, 23 December 2011 - 09:50 AM.
Added receiver numbers

"Let's Have Some Fun!"

#11 ONLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 12:57 PM

This How I converted my Legacy System and Home network MRV to SWM & Deca.

2-HR22-100
1-HR21-200
1-H20 /BSF
1-D10

BUT you don't have the 15' min RG6 between the PI and the SWM8.
In your case, I'd move the PI over to the #3 legacy and connect the splitter straight to SWM #1.
A.K.A VOS

#12 OFFLINE   dasoffice

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 06:20 PM

I'm not doubting you, but is there a reference for the 15' min. between the PI and the SWM8 and powering thru the legacy 3? Helped a friend run cable, position all the parts, etc. and then the Directv installer finished it up and they moved in their new house. Cables were not completely buried and other things required that the home owner disconnect and reconnect at the dish. Then the problems started. Pixelation that I could never see. I think I finally nailed it down to connections at the dish not sufficiently tight and the owners have not complained much, if at all, since. But they do only have 2 HR24's, one about a 75' run and one 90' run from the SWM8. Installer used a 4-way splitter and I don't believe he had terminators on the other two connections (which I installed during one of the troubleshooting steps). So the question becomes (to give me a break with their complaints): The PI is adjacent to the SWM8, so should the splitter be removed, connect one DVR to the SWM1 output, one DVR to the SWM2 output and PI to the legacy 3 output? Will that provide the highest signal, most advantageous configuration? Sorry to the so ignorant, but this is not a vocation for me. Thanks.

#13 ONLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 06:26 PM

I'm not doubting you, but is there a reference for the 15' min. between the PI and the SWM8 and powering thru the legacy 3? Helped a friend run cable, position all the parts, etc. and then the Directv installer finished it up and they moved in their new house. Cables were not completely buried and other things required that the home owner disconnect and reconnect at the dish. Then the problems started. Pixelation that I could never see. I think I finally nailed it down to connections at the dish not sufficiently tight and the owners have not complained much, if at all, since. But they do only have 2 HR24's, one about a 75' run and one 90' run from the SWM8. Installer used a 4-way splitter and I don't believe he had terminators on the other two connections (which I installed during one of the troubleshooting steps). So the question becomes (to give me a break with their complaints): The PI is adjacent to the SWM8, so should the splitter be removed, connect one DVR to the SWM1 output, one DVR to the SWM2 output and PI to the legacy 3 output? Will that provide the highest signal, most advantageous configuration? Sorry to the so ignorant, but this is not a vocation for me. Thanks.

"My reference" came directly from DirecTV engineering as I was part of the initial test group.
Legacy #3 doesn't require it.
If you want to connect a DVR to each SWiM output, and the PI to #3 legacy, there should be no problem, "but at the same time", using a splitter and 100' coax runs won't be either.
A.K.A VOS

#14 OFFLINE   Stuart Sweet

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 06:30 PM

The 15' limit has been mentioned here several times since the SWiM's introduction 4 years ago. I know that veryoldschool was in the first test group, and the lead moderator at the time specifically mentions the 15' limit in the first look.
Opinions expressed by me are my own and do not necessarily reflect
those of DBSTalk.com, DIRECTV, DISH, The Signal Group, or any other company.

#15 ONLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 06:31 PM

The 15' limit has been mentioned here several times since the SWiM's introduction 4 years ago. I know that veryoldschool was in the first test group, and the lead moderator at the time specifically mentions the 15' limit in the first look.

here: http://www.dbstalk.c...805&postcount=6
A.K.A VOS

#16 OFFLINE   stumbleshoe

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 06:55 PM

the only thing i see is dont hook up both lines going to the hddvrs. just hook up one of them to the swm splitter, that way you have 3 connections and all the rest are terminated. you dont want to hookup all 5 lines and leave 2 just hanging there unterminated.


Good catch- thanks!

#17 OFFLINE   WestDC

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 07:18 PM

Okay-15' -The link referenced is dated 07 and for the first 5 Channel version-with a 8 and larger version to follow.

It also doesn't list using the legacy port #3 as a power input as the picture of the first model only has 2 legacy ports. (NOT THAT IT CAN'T BE) I just didn't use it .
I based my install on this document Last year and my system is and has been working fine (I know just because it works doesn't mean it's right).:)

Should I correct it and if so Why? or is correct as wired? what is the danger of
being closer than 15' of rg6 I can cut a 15'-30'loop and add it.

Attached Files

  • Attached File  Swm8.pdf   71.68KB   33 downloads

"Let's Have Some Fun!"

#18 ONLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 07:30 PM

Okay-15' -The link referenced is dated 07 and for the first 5 Channel version-with a 8 and larger version to follow.

It also doesn't list using the legacy port #3 as a power input as the picture of the first model only has 2 legacy ports. (NOT THAT IT CAN'T BE) I just didn't use it .
I based my install on this document Last year and my system is and has been working fine (I know just because it works doesn't mean it's right).:)

Should I correct it and if so Why? or is correct as wired? what is the danger of
being closer than 15' of rg6 I can cut a 15'-30'loop and add it.

Cutting a "loop" is merely adding loss for what?
Since the PI is so close to the SWM8, "I would" use the #3 legacy port, and move the splitter cable over to the SWiM.
Weaknees merely "bagged" a DirecTV doc from July '07, and which would you rather trust: what they send to installers/retailer, or what the development engineers tell you? :lol:
BTW: during testing the PI to SWM8 was as short as 1', and the max distance from the LNB to the SWM8 [45'] was well over 65'.
If you're too lazy to make a change, "no biggie", but if you want to be "correct", then swap the coax. :lol:

The MDU guys used these:
http://www.dbstalk.c...=1&d=1324604183

If you look closely you'll see the power runs into the #3 legacy

Attached Thumbnails

  • Capture.PNG

Edited by veryoldschool, 22 December 2011 - 07:37 PM.

A.K.A VOS

#19 OFFLINE   WestDC

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 07:43 PM

"cutting a loop" was my mis understanding '15 of wire not in the units nearness.

It's not a matter of being lazy -I'm watching TV now :) and plan to with the family over the Hoilday so after everyone is back to work and school I can correct it.

SO then I Run the power lead to legacy #3 cap the IRD out on the power supply = Swim1 goes to top my Swm 8 Splitter (all the other ports stay as they are going to my receivers & BBdeca)?

I wouldn't need a BSF anywhere else other than the one on my H20 would I?
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#20 ONLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 07:53 PM

"cutting a loop" was my mis understanding '15 of wire not in the units nearness.

It's not a matter of being lazy -I'm watching TV now :) and plan to with the family over the Hoilday so after everyone is back to work and school I can correct it.

SO then I Run the power lead to legacy #3 cap the IRD out on the power supply = Swim1 goes to top my Swm 8 Splitter (all the other ports stay as they are going to my receivers & BBdeca)?

I wouldn't need a BSF anywhere else other than the one on my H20 would I?

If this SWM8 has a green sticker/label, then it has the BSF internally. If not, then it should have one too.
With no RF coming out legacy #3, cap or not at your pleasure.
BTW: it wasn't the development engineer, but the CTO [head honcho] of DirecTV that told me. ;)
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