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Receiver Reboots and Grounding Safety Question


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18 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   schulzj01

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 12:18 PM

I've posted this on the dishsupport.com forum as well, but was hoping to get some different opinions.

I've recently become a Dish Network customer ~1 month ago. However so far I've been not too satisfied with the service.

Since installation, we've had issues with our receiver randomly rebooting. Dish has been out to our house 4 times since the installation to try to figure out the issue.

Twice they've replaced the receiver thinking it was a bad 722K. Now on our 3rd receiver, it is still having these issues. Temps are not a problem as I have a fan blowing over the device, and the Avg Temp is only around 105. I've tried it with and without a powerstrip, and in multiple outlets. Reboots are random and can occur a few times a night.

I suspected there was an issue with the satellite's grounding. We live in Idaho, and the wind coupled with low humidity probably puts a bunch of static into the system. Dish sent a tech out this morning, and sure enough, he found that the system was never grounded at installation. He stated that normally they didn't have to worry about grounding the system. I would think it would be required to be grounded at installation.

Here's where my question comes in to play... He pulled the grounding prong out of the receiver's plug, and plugged it back into the wall (essentially making it a 2 pronged receiver). He stated that should work to resolve the issue. He said if this doesn't work, that we'll need to install a grounding rod close to the dish in order to ground the system. Our home was built up to code in 2006 (I know it has a grounding rod although it may be at a different end of the house). My question is basically...is this safe? It seems like he has opened us up to major electrical issues here by not having the dish grounded. It also seems like just removing the grounding prong from the receiver would make things worse by not allowing the receiver to discharge any excess electricity.

Thanks for any help!

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#2 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 12:26 PM

Hi...

I would call Dish or better yet hopefully one of the Dish reps here will chime in.

The Dish should always be grounded... And no one should EVER be pulling prongs off or otherwise modifying the receiver power cable!

That is amazing... That seems the kind of thing that could get a tech fired if his boss cares at all about his company, because there are safety and legal exposures in play.

-- Respect the S.H.I.E.L.D.


#3 OFFLINE   356B

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 12:38 PM

What an idiot.....they make adapters that covert 3 to 2 prongs....if that was an issue. If the ground is somehow getting corrupted causing these anomalies I don't know, but cutting a ground prong for an installer is asking for lots of trouble.
Thank you and
Best of luck

#4 OFFLINE   Henry

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 12:54 PM

The guys are right, schulzj01. The tech that worked on your 722k has isolated the reciever from what grounding existed. All he has done is to expose you and/or the 722k to harm or damage. Some of us are experiencing the same issue that you are, but we mostly think it's software-related.
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#5 OFFLINE   BNUMM

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 01:19 PM

The dish being grounded or not has no relation to the receiver rebooting because it is not electrically connected to the receiver. However, the LNB on the dish is but the LNB is isolated from the dish because the bracket that connects the LNB to the dish is plastic. Static electricity on the dish could affect the signal because the dish reflects the signal to the LNB. I am not trying to start an argument with the grounding police but just pointing out that the dish being grounded will not affect rebooting of the receiver. If you have a ground problem with the electrical system in your house that could possibly affect your receiver. I would have an electrician check it out, not a Dish Network technician because they do not have the proper equipment.

#6 OFFLINE   upsss

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 01:43 PM

The "tech" guy is a moron!!! An electrical equipment has a 3 prong plug for several reasons. One of them which is not obvious to the lame person is to meet FCC regulations by reducing conducted electromagnetic interference (EMI).

To meet these regulations the manufactures adds Line Filters, which among other parts have capacitors from the power Line side to chassis ground (capacitors conduct AC current). If you would touch simultaneously the receiver chassis where the ground was removed and another piece of equipment that is grounded, you will get electrocuted!

Edited by upsss, 22 December 2011 - 02:00 PM.


#7 OFFLINE   schulzj01

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 02:43 PM

Thanks for the help guys. I guess I'll have to give Dish a call (again) and see what they can do.

Any other thoughts on the receiver rebooting? I guess software seems like a logical problem since I've had the issue now with 3 different receivers. But I figured if it was a software issue, the majority of people would be having the same issue.

BNUMM, I dont' know that much about the dish installations, so all I'm really saying is speculative on the grounding issue. The way I see it outside is that the dish is hooked up to a coaxial cable that runs straight through to my box. I didn't know there was a plastic insulator somewhere that any static charge couldn't actually pass through.

The guy who owned the house before me was a professional electrician. He mentioned he did all the wiring in the house. While it's plausible he messed up the grounding for the whole house, I really doubt he took those kind of shortcuts.

i'm just a month into my service, and I've been pleased with Dish so far except for this. I'm debating whether or not to see if I can get out of my agreement, and just go to DirecTV.

#8 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 03:53 PM

There are possibly electrical issues that could cause rebooting, so I would not discount that... But some have experienced these as temporary glitches in firmware.

Also, some Dish receivers have been known to reboot due to loss of signal, so it might be worth taking a look and seeing if your Dish is not properly peaked, since it sure sounds like you did not have the best of Techs working your case.

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#9 OFFLINE   gtal98

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Posted 25 December 2011 - 07:50 PM

I am a Dish technician, and the only purpose grounding the dish serves is to dissipate the static build up mentioned before. However, it is supposed to be grounded, but is not posing any hazards to anyone if it is not.

The technician should never have removing the third prong from the plug - that's just dumb.

As far as the rebooting goes - every time I run into this there is a short in the coax cable between the receiver and the LNBF somewhere. It could be water in the lines outside causing a short, or an improperly installed connector (the foil or braid is touching the center conductor). Next time someone comes out insist that he check every single connector in the system - outside at the dish, at the ground block, at the diplexer, in the attic/crawlspace, in any smart boxes, behind the wall plate, on the jumper from the wall plate to the receiver. It is a lot of work to find, but I bet a thorough check will find something.

#10 OFFLINE   VDP07

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Posted 25 December 2011 - 10:41 PM

I am a Dish technician, and the only purpose grounding the dish serves is to dissipate the static build up mentioned before. However, it is supposed to be grounded, but is not posing any hazards to anyone if it is not.

The technician should never have removing the third prong from the plug - that's just dumb.

As far as the rebooting goes - every time I run into this there is a short in the coax cable between the receiver and the LNBF somewhere. It could be water in the lines outside causing a short, or an improperly installed connector (the foil or braid is touching the center conductor). Next time someone comes out insist that he check every single connector in the system - outside at the dish, at the ground block, at the diplexer, in the attic/crawlspace, in any smart boxes, behind the wall plate, on the jumper from the wall plate to the receiver. It is a lot of work to find, but I bet a thorough check will find something.


+1

#11 OFFLINE   schulzj01

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Posted 27 December 2011 - 09:07 AM

Well Dish is sending a Field Service Manager to take a look at the issue. The Dish rep is also sending out a new receiver (our 4th) so that we didn't get charged for the missing prong when sending our receiver back if we ever cancel our dish service (hadn't thought of that).

As for the rebooting, I've found that it doesn't initially reboot. The screen freezes for about a minute or two, and then eventually the system reboots. You can still use the guide and menus during that time. This makes me think that the signal is being interrupted and that is what is causing the box to restart. The first tech we had come out, I asked that he verify the signal. I saw him go through some stuff on the point dish screen. It looked like two of the sats had signals in the 70s, while the 3rd was down into the 50s. He said that was completely normal though.

gtal98, I'll mention your suggestions to the tech when he makes it over today. Thanks everyone for the help!

#12 OFFLINE   AZ.

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Posted 27 December 2011 - 09:54 AM

Well Dish is sending a Field Service Manager to take a look at the issue. The Dish rep is also sending out a new receiver (our 4th) so that we didn't get charged for the missing prong when sending our receiver back if we ever cancel our dish service (hadn't thought of that).

As for the rebooting, I've found that it doesn't initially reboot. The screen freezes for about a minute or two, and then eventually the system reboots. You can still use the guide and menus during that time. This makes me think that the signal is being interrupted and that is what is causing the box to restart. The first tech we had come out, I asked that he verify the signal. I saw him go through some stuff on the point dish screen. It looked like two of the sats had signals in the 70s, while the 3rd was down into the 50s. He said that was completely normal though.

gtal98, I'll mention your suggestions to the tech when he makes it over today. Thanks everyone for the help!


An easy check would have been to disconect all coaxes conected to the reciever and see if it had the same problems, you could of narowed down the problem for the teck.....

#13 OFFLINE   schulzj01

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Posted 27 December 2011 - 10:09 AM

An easy check would have been to disconect all coaxes conected to the reciever and see if it had the same problems, you could of narowed down the problem for the teck.....


The only thing I have connected to the receiver is the 1 coax input from the wall (split into 2 for the dual tuner). You're saying to just keep the receiver on with no input for half the night until it (maybe) reboots?

#14 OFFLINE   356B

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Posted 27 December 2011 - 10:18 AM

The only thing I have connected to the receiver is the 1 coax input from the wall (split into 2 for the dual tuner). You're saying to just keep the receiver on with no input for half the night until it (maybe) reboots?

Makes sense, the tech who posted above laid it out pretty clearly also. Trouble with lead-ins (coax) can cause issues.
Thank you and
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#15 OFFLINE   schulzj01

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Posted 27 December 2011 - 10:33 AM

Makes sense, the tech who posted above laid it out pretty clearly also. Trouble with lead-ins (coax) can cause issues.


While I appreciate the suggestion, that can be kind of hard to do. I really don't have time to constantly watch the television (with just the dish logo) for 6 hours in hopes that the receiver reboots. Not to mention that a reboot only takes 5 minutes. So essentially I'd have to check into the living room every 5 minutes to see if something is going on. Speaking from strictly a consumer point of view, a technician should hopefully be able to figure this out without me having to do that. I think since I'm on my 3rd (soon to be 4th) receiver, one can safely say, it's likely not an issue with the receiver.

I work in IT, and I know what it's like trying to diagnose frustrating intermittent problems. However, if we have an issue with a computer spuriously rebooting, I would never ask my coworker to just keep it on in the background and see when it happens. They have much better things to do, let alone might not always be in their office at all times. If anything, I would move to the problem computer, and try to recreate the problem myself. That allows me to isolate and troubleshoot easier anyways.

#16 OFFLINE   356B

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Posted 27 December 2011 - 10:35 AM

Good for you, sounds like you have it figured out.
Thank you and
Best of luck

#17 OFFLINE   davejacobson

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Posted 27 December 2011 - 12:27 PM

Just a few quick questions. Is the coax from the dish to the receiver newly installed? No old RG59 or old crimp connectors? Are all connectors dish approved? Thats including any connector in a wall plate. The lack of the high frequency high current connector can cause intermittent problems. The wire hair in the connector is a good possibility. Now for grounding coax with messenger to a ground block at the point of entry. Then a ground wire from there to the existing ground at your breaker box or your meter. Even if you drive a ground rod in it still must connect to the current grounding system in your house.

Edited by davejacobson, 27 December 2011 - 12:28 PM.
spelling

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#18 OFFLINE   schulzj01

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Posted 27 December 2011 - 02:08 PM

The coax is what came with the house. The home was built in 2006. The connectors are all of the newer twist on/off variety. The cable essentially runs in from the satellite (roof) down into a patch panel in the house. There's a M/M junction there that runs the cable to the TV. It's not being run anywhere else in the house at the moment. It's a very simple set up. Hopefully the tech today takes care of the dish being grounded and we can at least rule that out. I'm not sure why it wasn't initially grounded anyways. The breaker box is in the garage on which the dish is mounted on. Although by the sounds of some of the forum posts on here, it's likely not going to help anything.

#19 OFFLINE   davejacobson

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Posted 27 December 2011 - 02:24 PM

TWIST OFF!!!! Not approved for any installation. COMPRESSION CONNECTORS ONLY. That receiver not only needs high frequency connectors,but also needs to have a current draw of up to 2 amps. As a serviceman every time (and I mean every time) I see one of these twist things it gets cut off and a new compression goes on. That solves many problems just doing that. In 2006 your cable could go either way RG59 or RG6. If its 59 that may cause problems. Wrong cable and/or wrong connector can cause the voltage at the LNB to drop and signal to go away.The receiver may even see and overload with the voltage drop because current will rise when the voltage drops. Again receiver shutdown.
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