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New Directv Prices


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#251 OFFLINE   ChicagoBlue

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 10:20 AM

I completely understand what you are saying but I see a different result in the long run. Short term, everything you said is correct. But as the fees for ESPN continued to climb and more people dropped them, they'd be getting even less than they started out with. Then the decision is theirs, either stop making these ridiculous overpriced deals like MNF, keep doing so and have less and less people supporting it because their price continues to sky rocket, or go out of business. As I've said before, none of these stations like ESPN want a higher tier/sports tier/etc because when they see their $$$ decline as less people pay for it they will know how important they really are and lose their upper hand in any further negotiations making their threats worthless.


I'm with SR on this one for a couple of reasons.

The people in this country that are sports fanatics carry a big stick and they want their football, baseball, basketball, college sports, etc. If you pull back on the television contracts, the money for salaries, stadiums, etc takes a big hit. The money has to come from somewhere, right now it's television. Those salaries of players are not going to go backward in any meaningful way and television rights is the most efficient and least costly per consumer to pay for them.

If ESPN were to go out of business, someone else would step into the vacuum and pay it.

We could go back the last 40 years and see how many fans scream about player salaries and the costs of sports, but the ratings remain strong, the stadiums are largely filled and the train keeps on moving.

We can go back and read the threads here on DBS, I'd bet, and each year the price increases come and predictions of gloom and doom follow but never happen.

There is no alternative threat for sports right now. Netflix or Hulu or anyone like that isn't going to be able to offer sports with the $$$ needed to grab those products and distribute. Nor are the leagues going to cut off the money supply they get from the networks and the distributors.

I don't see this ending for decades, if at all.

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#252 OFFLINE   tomski35

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 10:22 AM

If they're going to increase pricing, they better fix the speed issue with the boxes. The new GUI didn't fix the issue. I'm going to have a hard time convincing the wife it's worth it stay with DTV.

#253 OFFLINE   ChicagoBlue

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 10:25 AM

For some it is not an "inability to grasp this simple concept". It is the principle to control which channels they pay for and the power to tell channels such as ESPN to stick it in their ear.


If your favorite grocery store decided to tell Coke to stick it in their ear and no longer carry their products, what would happen to that store's business?

If your favorite sporting goods store decided to tell Nike to stick it in their ear and no longer carry their products, what would happen to that store's business?

There are simple realities here. Every distributor must carry ESPN or become a bit player. That is reality. The distributors know it, ESPN knows it. Thus, ESPN can demand rates that are in the stratosphere because no carrier wants to be without them and watch millions of their customers who don't give a damn about a $3 increase per month leave. That is reality.

It's easy for any of us to sit behind a keyboard and say DTV or TWC or DISH needs to play hardball and show ESPN or HBO or Fox or FILL IN THE BLANK who is boss. Then there are the realities and the repercussions that go along with choosing that path.

#254 OFFLINE   ChicagoBlue

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 10:30 AM

Could you quantify what the Entertainment pack sacrifices to cost less than Choice?


I've heard through the grapevine in the industry that it will not include your regional sports networks as part of the base package. So in Chicago, you would not receive your local sports teams that are on CSN Chicago. In Los Angeles, you would not see the Lakers on Fox Sports West or the Angels on Prime Ticket.

Regional sports fees are very high in certain parts of the country. Imagine the cost to DTV in the New York area with four regional sports fees (MSG, MSG+, SNY, YES) vs what they have to pay for in Milwaukee for example.

#255 OFFLINE   ChicagoBlue

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 10:32 AM

If they're going to increase pricing, they better fix the speed issue with the boxes. The new GUI didn't fix the issue. I'm going to have a hard time convincing the wife it's worth it stay with DTV.


What box do you have? The new UI is wonderful and much faster for our boxes.

#256 OFFLINE   Barcthespark

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 10:42 AM

If your favorite grocery store decided to tell Coke to stick it in their ear and no longer carry their products, what would happen to that store's business?

If your favorite sporting goods store decided to tell Nike to stick it in their ear and no longer carry their products, what would happen to that store's business?

There are simple realities here. Every distributor must carry ESPN or become a bit player. That is reality. The distributors know it, ESPN knows it. Thus, ESPN can demand rates that are in the stratosphere because no carrier wants to be without them and watch millions of their customers who don't give a damn about a $3 increase per month leave. That is reality.

It's easy for any of us to sit behind a keyboard and say DTV or TWC or DISH needs to play hardball and show ESPN or HBO or Fox or FILL IN THE BLANK who is boss. Then there are the realities and the repercussions that go along with choosing that path.


You misunderstood what I was saying. I wasn't suggesting D* tell ESPN to stick it. I was suggesting that individual viewers could tell ESPN to stick it by not subscribing to their channels if they had a la carte.

#257 ONLINE   lparsons21

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 10:48 AM

I've heard through the grapevine in the industry that it will not include your regional sports networks as part of the base package. So in Chicago, you would not receive your local sports teams that are on CSN Chicago. In Los Angeles, you would not see the Lakers on Fox Sports West or the Angels on Prime Ticket.

Regional sports fees are very high in certain parts of the country. Imagine the cost to DTV in the New York area with four regional sports fees (MSG, MSG+, SNY, YES) vs what they have to pay for in Milwaukee for example.


That makes sense, and if it were so and ESPN, ESPN2 and Golf were included in the package and still have the other non-sports channels I like, then I may move to that package.

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#258 OFFLINE   Podkayne

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 11:01 AM

Having been with DTV since Sept. 1994, (the old DTV + USSB days) I've seen a lot of price increases and the caterwauling that go with it. Local cable and phone/fiber optic companies are really starting to compete hard for my TV service, and I've just recently started to look at the alternatives.

I have decided that my "Choice Ultimate" would be for me to subscribe to the 15 or so channels that I actually watch and let the other 3,000 go dark. The first provider that offers me the level of flexibility to watch what I want, and pay for only what I watch, will win my business.

Am I just dreaming, or is someone going to develop an entertainment-providing business based on an ala-carte model? The first entrepeneur to develop such a sustainable business will indeed make a fortune. I know just by reading this thread that I am not alone in this line of thinking.

#259 OFFLINE   n3vino

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 11:20 AM

I mostly watch fooltball and mostly on Sundays if I do. I just realized I can do without ESPN since I don't watch football on Monday nights. In fact, I get all the football I need with the major networks. I don't care for other sports on TV.

#260 OFFLINE   n3vino

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 11:30 AM

You misunderstood what I was saying. I wasn't suggesting D* tell ESPN to stick it. I was suggesting that individual viewers could tell ESPN to stick it by not subscribing to their channels if they had a la carte.


I would think that ESPN's deal is that want to be on basic tiers or no deal at all. That's what happened with the NFL network. TW wanted them on their sports package and NFL wanted to be on basic and get a ridiculous premium for what they offered and make all subscribers pay. TW said no, and there was no deal. That, however, caused some Cowboy fans (because of two games), to jump ship to D*. TW stuck to their guns on this one. But they do have ESPN on their basic lineup.

#261 OFFLINE   SledgeHammer

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 11:31 AM

You have Free HD for life, or Free HD for two years? In either case, a promo doesnt start a contract, only activating a new box does. If it hasnt been two years since you activated your HD box tho, then yea, you are stuck with the rest of us...Watching our money go to FOX :)


I'm an existing long time customer, so naturally DirecTV treats me worse then a new customer by giving them the lifetime and me the 2yr :rolleyes:. Hmm... thinking back, I know I switched to auto-pay to get the 2yrs, and I also started bundling with AT&T to save more $$$. I think there was something where I had to re-up for 2yrs, but maybe I'm high :grin:.

#262 OFFLINE   SledgeHammer

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 11:37 AM

I was glancing through old threads, curious to see how much my bill has changed over the years, and I found this. http://www.dbstalk.c...709#post2023709

1998 Total choice PLATINUM 47.99
1999 Total Choice $29.99
2000 Total Choice $31.99
2003 Total Choice $33.99
2004 Total Choice $36.99
2005 Total Choice $41.99
2006 Total Choice $44.99
2007 Total Choice $47.99
2008 Total Choice $50.99
2009 Total Choice $53.99
2010 Total Choice $57.49
2011 Total Choice $60.49
2012 Total Choice $64.49

I've been a customer since 2004, so I have seen a 74% increase in my rate. Not to continue the war over is it fair to increase prices, but that seems probably inline with what D* has incurred from networks.


What has me and most others mad is that NOTHING else has increased at the same rate. Think back to all your bills: gas, power, electric, phone, internet, etc. over the same time period. Assuming you didn't add new features, NONE of those items has doubled since 2002. Has your salary? Mine has only gone up roughly 60% and thats only a factor of adding more years experience.

As far as DISH goes, well, I think if you look back to 2002 and compare DISH prices, you'll see they have moved pretty much lock step with DirecTV.

#263 OFFLINE   SledgeHammer

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 11:40 AM

As I usually do when there is a price increase coming I look at alternatives and this is the first time that the alternatives will be cheaper for me. If the $10 HD credit goes away it will be a large enough increase that I will reduce or drop dtv or switch to another provider. It sucks, I love dtv and have been with them since 95 but I have reached my limit on what I am willing to pay.


Yeah, companies don't care. They know that not everybody is going to leave, just a small outspoken minority. You can see a clear example of this with Netflix. They doubled prices overnight and everybody screamed and claimed they were going to quit. In the end, they lost 1M out of 12M customers. Whoopee! Sure the stock went from $300 to $70, but really, what is 1M out of 12M? Almost nothing.

#264 OFFLINE   SledgeHammer

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 11:44 AM

I would definitely LOVE to see ESPN, etc. moved to a separate package since they are the biggest rate increasers. I have ZERO interest in sports and would much rather get channels I watch. I know a la carte doesn't work in general, but its also pretty clear that sports nuts are generally willing to pay anything to watch sports. So let those that want sports foot the bill for it. Most of the other sports channels are already extra anyways.

#265 OFFLINE   MysteryMan

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 12:08 PM

What has me and most others mad is that NOTHING else has increased at the same rate. Think back to all your bills: gas, power, electric, phone, internet, etc. over the same time period. Assuming you didn't add new features, NONE of those items has doubled since 2002. Has your salary? Mine has only gone up roughly 60% and thats only a factor of adding more years experience.

As far as DISH goes, well, I think if you look back to 2002 and compare DISH prices, you'll see they have moved pretty much lock step with DirecTV.


Your comparing apples with oranges. The services you mentioned have a fraction of the technological demands DirecTV has. The services you mentioned don't have yearly negotiations with content providers that result is fee raising. They don't have a fleet of satellites to maintain nor the need for R & D for new satellites not to mention storage, transportation, and launch fees for the new satellites. The demand for improvement and upgrading is minuscule to those DirecTV faces. Those upgrades and improvements come with a price.
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#266 OFFLINE   Mike Bertelson

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 12:17 PM

What has me and most others mad is that NOTHING else has increased at the same rate. Think back to all your bills: gas, power, electric, phone, internet, etc. over the same time period. Assuming you didn't add new features, NONE of those items has doubled since 2002. Has your salary? Mine has only gone up roughly 60% and thats only a factor of adding more years experience.

As far as DISH goes, well, I think if you look back to 2002 and compare DISH prices, you'll see they have moved pretty much lock step with DirecTV.

Don't you have to compare DIRECTV's prices to the rest of the service providers?

It's kind of unfair to compare it to other sectors of the economy?

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Since it costs 1.66¢ to produce a penny, my 2¢ worth is really 3.32¢ worth.  That 3.32¢ is my own and not the 3.32¢ of DIRECTV, Dish, or anyone else for that matter.


#267 OFFLINE   VelvetUn

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 12:40 PM

What has me and most others mad is that NOTHING else has increased at the same rate. Think back to all your bills: gas, power, electric, phone, internet, etc. over the same time period. Assuming you didn't add new features, NONE of those items has doubled since 2002. Has your salary? Mine has only gone up roughly 60% and thats only a factor of adding more years experience.

As far as DISH goes, well, I think if you look back to 2002 and compare DISH prices, you'll see they have moved pretty much lock step with DirecTV.


As others have pointed out, your comparison is to commodities that are entirely different than TV service. However, gas prices in 2004 (my reference point for starting service) were $1.85, according to the U.S. Dept. of Energy. The average gas price in the nation today, according to AAA is $3.24. That is a 75% price increase.

#268 OFFLINE   xov

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 01:03 PM

What has me and most others mad is that NOTHING else has increased at the same rate. Think back to all your bills: gas, power, electric, phone, internet, etc. over the same time period. Assuming you didn't add new features, NONE of those items has doubled since 2002. Has your salary? Mine has only gone up roughly 60% and thats only a factor of adding more years experience.

As far as DISH goes, well, I think if you look back to 2002 and compare DISH prices, you'll see they have moved pretty much lock step with DirecTV.


DirecTV prices have doubled since 2000 (not 2002). That's 100% over 12 years, or an average of 6% per year compounded. That's more than some things but less than others (college tuition and healthcare, for example).

I'm not rich, but for me the hassle of switching providers is not worth the cost.

And it's clear (to me anyway) that an a la carte business model is not currently practical for any of the providers. So we can complain all we want, but the reality is we can stick with DirecTV or go somewhere else. Our choice.

#269 OFFLINE   SledgeHammer

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 01:11 PM

Your comparing apples with oranges. The services you mentioned have a fraction of the technological demands DirecTV has. The services you mentioned don't have yearly negotiations with content providers that result is fee raising. They don't have a fleet of satellites to maintain nor the need for R & D for new satellites not to mention storage, transportation, and launch fees for the new satellites. The demand for improvement and upgrading is minuscule to those DirecTV faces. Those upgrades and improvements come with a price.


That's true in some regard, but remember, the majority of the new satellites are to provide LIL support. OK, I'm paying for the Los Angeles locals since that's what I use and that's on the main bird. So is New York.

Should I have to pay for everybody elses locals? Probably not. I don't even have access to them.

I also would bet various body parts that if you took a survey of DTVs 20M customers, the vast majority would have rather kept the SD GUI and kept the monthly bill lower vs. the HD GUI.

I'd also bet another body part that if those 20M customers had the option of "pick either LA or NY locals or your bill will go up $10/month to pay for the new birds" the vast majority would say "hey, LA/NY is good enough". :D

Anyways, the point is... I like bells and whistles as much as the next guy, but the majority of the bells and whistles that DTV has added over the past few years, I have ZERO interest in and feel a little annoyed that I have to pay for them.

P.S. my electric company just upgraded to remote readable meters... guess how much that cost me? $0.

#270 OFFLINE   SledgeHammer

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 01:15 PM

Lol, ok guys, I concede. I am kind of comparing apples to oranges :). DISH has gone up as much as DTV.

ISP is certainly not a commodity and thats got technology. My ISP bill has actually gone DOWN while my speed has gone UP.

Seems like my local cable company is about the same price.

#271 OFFLINE   racermd

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 01:32 PM

Anyways, the point is... I like bells and whistles as much as the next guy, but the majority of the bells and whistles that DTV has added over the past few years, I have ZERO interest in and feel a little annoyed that I have to pay for them.

P.S. my electric company just upgraded to remote readable meters... guess how much that cost me? $0.


You make a good point with the electric meter but, ultimately, you're paying for new features whether you want them or not and whether you get them or not. The cost for D* to do anything ultimately comes out their revenue. Whether they choose to dip into their profits to pay for it (like your electric company apparently did for that fancy new meter), raise rates to offset the cost (so they can keep the profits), or some combination is up to them. Well, ultimately, it's up to the subscriber base (including you and me) to accept the new rates.

Personally, I would like to see D* open things up a bit for customers that want to bring their own equipment like has been done with cable with cableCARD. Charge me per tuner, fine. Just give me the ability to attach those tuners to my own equipment so I can build out my own whole-home DVR solution without funding a bunch of R&D on equipment that will ultimately be less than fully adequate. I get that engineering a good product for the masses means making a bunch of compromises and testing the dickens out of everything. I'll save D* the money of doing those tests and building a bunch of boxes - let me roll my own. I'm a smart guy and can generally support my own stuff.

#272 OFFLINE   Mike Bertelson

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 01:38 PM

Lol, ok guys, I concede. I am kind of comparing apples to oranges :). DISH has gone up as much as DTV.

ISP is certainly not a commodity and thats got technology. My ISP bill has actually gone DOWN while my speed has gone UP.

Seems like my local cable company is about the same price.

I thought the internet was considered a commodity...but I could be wrong.

Mike

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Since it costs 1.66¢ to produce a penny, my 2¢ worth is really 3.32¢ worth.  That 3.32¢ is my own and not the 3.32¢ of DIRECTV, Dish, or anyone else for that matter.


#273 OFFLINE   SledgeHammer

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 01:46 PM

Whether they choose to dip into their profits to pay for it (like your electric company apparently did for that fancy new meter), raise rates to offset the cost (so they can keep the profits), or some combination is up to them.


Well... I'm guessing the new meter probably costs them $200 to $300 installed. Maybe even $500. In this case, the motives are obvious. They can get rid of all the meter reader jobs which means no more salaries, trucks, insurance, pensions, training, scheduling, etc. With all the people they can get rid of, they are probably going to break even the first year or sooner.

#274 OFFLINE   zimm7778

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 02:51 PM

Well... I'm guessing the new meter probably costs them $200 to $300 installed. Maybe even $500. In this case, the motives are obvious. They can get rid of all the meter reader jobs which means no more salaries, trucks, insurance, pensions, training, scheduling, etc. With all the people they can get rid of, they are probably going to break even the first year or sooner.


Computers=The worlds greatest convenience and worst creation.

#275 OFFLINE   JoeTheDragon

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 03:11 PM

I've heard through the grapevine in the industry that it will not include your regional sports networks as part of the base package. So in Chicago, you would not receive your local sports teams that are on CSN Chicago. In Los Angeles, you would not see the Lakers on Fox Sports West or the Angels on Prime Ticket.

Regional sports fees are very high in certain parts of the country. Imagine the cost to DTV in the New York area with four regional sports fees (MSG, MSG+, SNY, YES) vs what they have to pay for in Milwaukee for example.


then what is the $2 fee for?? Will you be able to take Entertainment and add RSN's for $2?

on dish At120 does not have RSN's but for $5 more AT120+ does + big ten for people in the big ten area.
I want CLTV / CLTV HD on direct tv.




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