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Back button when watching DVR


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35 replies to this topic

#21 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 06:18 PM

I think my earlier posts in this thread is ultimately going to be your only real answer...

Behavior varies for SD vs HD... but also for MPEG2 vs MPEG4 channels, and higher bitrate vs lower bitrate channels. It is apparently "optimized" for a particular set of circumstances, and for the rest of the time it can vary quite a bit.


Some channels it works flawlessly, others not so much. I have more issues with OTA, for example. I think part of this also stems from changes Dish had to make as a result of the Tivo lawsuit... so they lost the ability to do some of this better since Tivo kept winning in court.

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#22 OFFLINE   Kevin Brown

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 06:36 PM

John- Have they offered to give you a new DVR? I only really have issues with SD channels, but even then, it doesn't sound nearly as bad as you. Maybe there's some problem with your receiver?

#23 OFFLINE   John H Jackson

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 12:45 PM

I think my earlier posts in this thread is ultimately going to be your only real answer...

Some channels it works flawlessly, others not so much. I have more issues with OTA, for example. I think part of this also stems from changes Dish had to make as a result of the Tivo lawsuit... so they lost the ability to do some of this better since Tivo kept winning in court.


I can't relate to any of this. I find no difference from channel to channel (nor from HD vs. non HD; lots of problems with HD programs) and I don't do OTA.

John- Have they offered to give you a new DVR? I only really have issues with SD channels, but even then, it doesn't sound nearly as bad as you. Maybe there's some problem with your receiver?


That's what Dr.Dish said, tho I disagreed that it seemed likely. But to move forward with the matter, I swapped out the receiver. Absolutely no change. This is a significant problem, presumably with their software, that has been around for at least a year (that I've been trying to get their attention on) and is obviously not localized to one user.
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#24 OFFLINE   Kevin Brown

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 06:13 PM

^^^

That's weird. Maybe the problem is there, and we're just watching different channels ...

#25 OFFLINE   MadScientist

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 09:03 PM

I get this also! this happens to me most of the times!

#26 OFFLINE   John H Jackson

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 05:43 AM

^^^

That's weird. Maybe the problem is there, and we're just watching different channels ...


I can't really imagine why a problem like this would be a function of which channel had been recorded (and it is absolutely not my experience that it's different from channel to channel).

When I showed up here awhile back, it seemed like there were some Dish techies aboard that participated in the discussion and presumably could help facilitate problem resolution. What happened? Did they all crawl under a rock? Is Dish collapsing under a mountain of unresolved probems and unrelaible system changes?

Seems like it the absence of said techies, the main purpose served by this forum is to scratch our collective heads and wonder why features that should function consistently and predictably don't.

Am I missing something here?

#27 OFFLINE   Ray C@DISH Network

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 11:10 AM

I am still providing feedback and technical assistance with our equipment to the participants on this site. If I don't have the answer, I have the resources to find the answer. If you have any questions or concerns, please let me know. Thanks.

I can't really imagine why a problem like this would be a function of which channel had been recorded (and it is absolutely not my experience that it's different from channel to channel).

When I showed up here awhile back, it seemed like there were some Dish techies aboard that participated in the discussion and presumably could help facilitate problem resolution. What happened? Did they all crawl under a rock? Is Dish collapsing under a mountain of unresolved probems and unrelaible system changes?

Seems like it the absence of said techies, the main purpose served by this forum is to scratch our collective heads and wonder why features that should function consistently and predictably don't.

Am I missing something here?



#28 OFFLINE   John H Jackson

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 12:28 PM

I am still providing feedback and technical assistance with our equipment to the participants on this site. If I don't have the answer, I have the resources to find the answer. If you have any questions or concerns, please let me know. Thanks.


Yea team!

Thanks for checking in, Ray. I've sent you a PM.

I have considerable I.T. background myself, not directly relevant but I believe I have a pretty good general concept of what's involved here.

The program material is written to disk. Then, the material is read sequentially from disk with the ability to navigate including skips. And the intent is to skip by some determined interval forward and backwards through the material. And the problem is that during this action it totally loses its place.

I'm thinking that maybe one distinguishing characteristic is that I'm watching cable networks with very long commercial breaks. So I'm skipping forward a bunch of times in rapid succession. Then I have to immediately skip back perhaps 3 times. At at this point, all to often (perhaps on the third backwards skip) it just goes flyin off into the deep.

#29 OFFLINE   4bama

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 04:06 PM

And the problem is that during this action it totally loses its place.

I'm thinking that maybe one distinguishing characteristic is that I'm watching cable networks with very long commercial breaks. So I'm skipping forward a bunch of times in rapid succession. Then I have to immediately skip back perhaps 3 times. At at this point, all to often (perhaps on the third backwards skip) it just goes flyin off into the deep.


We discussed this very same subject over a year ago...one thing was noted that really made a big difference, and it requires the customer to be a little more patient.

Doing multiple skips, forward or reverse, if a slight pause is made between each skip (just enough for the DVR to display one frame after the skip) then the over-skip/under-skip problem is all but eliminated..

Very rapid skips seems to cause the DVR to lose its place in time and unpredictable skips sometimes result..

Try using a short pause between pressing the skip button(s) and see if that improves your results.
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#30 OFFLINE   John H Jackson

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 04:34 PM

We discussed this very same subject over a year ago...one thing was noted that really made a big difference, and it requires the customer to be a little more patient.

Doing multiple skips, forward or reverse, if a slight pause is made between each skip (just enough for the DVR to display one frame after the skip) then the over-skip/under-skip problem is all but eliminated..

Very rapid skips seems to cause the DVR to lose its place in time and unpredictable skips sometimes result..

Try using a short pause between pressing the skip button(s) and see if that improves your results.


I *could* try to deny that my wife and I are a bit Type-A. <g>

But seriously this has simply not been the case. We've put up with (well, it overstates the case to say we put up with it; we have not choice) but have most certainly tried to be very slow and methodical and it simply has a mind of its own. (I'd thought maybe just maybe if it saw each skip as a distinct action, but NO!)
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#31 OFFLINE   John H Jackson

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 10:45 PM

Oh yeah. And I'm pretty sure it's waayyy worse on Rec 2 (tho Rec 1 is not exempt).

#32 OFFLINE   John H Jackson

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 12:20 AM

I am still providing feedback and technical assistance with our equipment to the participants on this site. If I don't have the answer, I have the resources to find the answer. If you have any questions or concerns, please let me know. Thanks.


Earth to Ray. This is a (serious) problem. A very old problem. I have tried every way I know to get some attention to it. You stuck your head up.

And...

yet...

WHAT???

It is not insignificant. It is not recent. How and when will it be addressed? When will I ever hear another peep from Dish about it.

What is going on (other than nothing)?

Edited by Stewart Vernon, 22 July 2012 - 02:53 AM.
Changed WTF to "What"

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#33 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 02:52 AM

Moderator note... You're not accomplishing anything by bringing anger and simulated cursing to the thread. Some cleanup has been performed. Please be courteous to others.

-- Respect the S.H.I.E.L.D.


#34 OFFLINE   windskisong

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 12:06 PM

I am still providing feedback and technical assistance with our equipment to the participants on this site. If I don't have the answer, I have the resources to find the answer. If you have any questions or concerns, please let me know. Thanks.

Ray, this is still an ongoing issue. Our next door neighbors switched to DirectTV because they were so frustrated with this. We have found that doing the "Reprogam your remote" approach - push 'Menu' twice, then the 'SAT' button, then the 'RECORD' button - seems to help for about a week, when the remote will go back to skip forward goes about 30 seconds, skip back goes about 10 seconds, then this problem comes back.

What's even weirder is when this happens if we try to fast forward or fast rewind, they will seem like they're working until you hit play to drop to normal play, and suddenly you're nowhere near where you thought you were. E.G. you're watching a game show and fast forwarding to the last 5 minutes to see who won, you get there, hit play, and you're watching the commercial after where you started from (10 minutes from the beginning).

The issue seems to come up randomly, but once it starts happening, a cold reboot or a reprogram your remote are the only things that MIGHT fix it.

I asked if the Hopper had a similar problem, and the Dish Customer No-Service didn't know the 722k had this problem.



#35 OFFLINE   windskisong

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 12:09 PM

I have narrowed this problem down to certain channels or shows only. First run shows almost never exhibit the problem. Very old shows like 3rd Rock From the Sun and MASH on TV Land or Reelz are almost guaranteed to skip back to the beginning if the skip back is pressed more than a couple of times in a row.

Dish, use those as examples! And, I am on my 4th 722 in 3 years with this problem.

I've tried, and Dish refused to help with this problem. They did offer to upgrade me to the Hopper for the normal fee plus an adder for doing it early. Wasn't that sweet?



#36 OFFLINE   Jim5506

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Posted 03 August 2013 - 07:43 AM

Jumping backward with digital TV  framing is naturally a hit or miss occurrence.

 

Your digital TV/satellite receiver  "creates" 30 full frames per second out of the digital signal that it receives.

 

Each of those frames is "built" from data from a variable number of previous frames - only pixels on the screen that have changed are updated in the new frame.

 

A digital TV picture consists of several different types of frames.

 

Occasionally a complete frame is sent, I believe they call these an "I" frame.

 

Between "I" frames will be frames that are pieces of the previous "I" frame, that only contain pixels that have changed since the last "I" frame.

 

You can readily see how if it is a relatively long time between "I" frames, it causes a problem for jumping backward since that jump MUST be to a previous "I" frame to get a complete screen shot - how many "I" frames back does the DVR jump, if you set a static number in programming, then you run the risk if jumping randomly backward (the problem Dish receivers have) and if you some how use a time base backward jump it exponentially complicates the calculations the DVR must make to hit the approximate time target.

 

I believe TiVo has the patent on the best way to run digital fast forward and rewind and even though Dish and TiVo have kissed and made up, Dish is not using the TiVo method for FF and REW, they may not be allowed  to by their agreement with TiVo - I don't know.

 

Rewind on a digital TV picture is an extremely complicated process, not just as simple as it once was with a VCR where it just read the analog data backwards and displayed enough of it to almost make an intelligible screen - digital moving pictures are layers and layers of what changed, what did not  and what's the median between the two.


Edited by Jim5506, 03 August 2013 - 07:47 AM.

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