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Guest Message by DevFuse

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HR34 Error 47 (was CCK Weak Connectivity)


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128 replies to this topic

#51 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 08:44 PM

Just so we're on the same page here:

http://www.dbstalk.c...01&d=1261069733

And the SWiM to splitter coax must be connected to the single port on the side of the 8-way splitters, which is on the top in this:

http://www.dbstalk.c...=1&d=1325472346

Attached Thumbnails

  • 8-way.PNG

A.K.A VOS

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#52 OFFLINE   jimlenz

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 07:01 AM

Sorry, but there still must be a mix up here.
The two shots of the SWiM-16 & splitters look identical to what was posted before and they look to even have the same labels.

The PI on the right sure looks like it run to the first port on the splitter on the right.
If this is what is going on, then this makes sense: "However, what I did was reset one of the dvr's and it would not connect. When it go to step 2, it was searching for signal. When I plugged the 6th one in, it was able to connect, no problem."
You must be running the PI through this "sixth" coax.

If in doubt, pull the power cord on the PI and then check your receivers.
Even with this sixth coax connected "I bet" you'll what happens with it removed.


No, these are all different pictures, look at the time stamp on them. Similar, yes, I wasn't sure what else you wanted pictures of. I must have misunderstood what exactly you wanted me to take additional pictures of. I will take more, just let me know.

I did take one more today, which is easier to see the PI and where it is connected. It is connected to the middle one on the left, just as your drawing in the post shows.

So you know, I did pull the power cord on the PI the other day when Directv wanted me to reset it and then reset all of the receivers. That is prior to the tech coming out and figuring out he had too many lines on each splitter.

Still, cannot figure out what the 6th one is for.

Jim

Attached Thumbnails

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#53 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 10:07 AM

Thanks, that shot makes it clear.
[again] there is no cable that if removed from the output of a splitter, will do anything more than cause one receiver to lose signal, as happened with your five coax.

Let also add the wildcard here of having none of the open ports terminated.
This is such a no no that I have no experience troubleshooting this type of setup, and "might be" why the sixth coax is acting like it has.

Edited by veryoldschool, 02 January 2012 - 10:30 AM.

A.K.A VOS

#54 OFFLINE   jimlenz

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 11:15 AM

Thanks, that shot makes it clear.
[again] there is no cable that if removed from the output of a splitter, will do anything more than cause one receiver to lose signal, as happened with your five coax.

Let also add the wildcard here of having none of the open ports terminated.
This is such a no no that I have no experience troubleshooting this type of setup, and "might be" why the sixth coax is acting like it has.


To answer your first question, correct. all the 6th does is cause the 2nd tuner to cause problems on the boxes but does not shut off the box.

Let me install the 2 way and 4 way later this week and see what happens to the setup. I also ordered terminators but not sure I will need them now. I will connect the 5 and leave the 6th out and see what happens. If it doesn't work right then I will connect the 6th one to the 4 way.

#55 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 11:28 AM

To answer your first question, correct. all the 6th does is cause the 2nd tuner to cause problems on the boxes but does not shut off the box.

Let me install the 2 way and 4 way later this week and see what happens to the setup. I also ordered terminators but not sure I will need them now. I will connect the 5 and leave the 6th out and see what happens. If it doesn't work right then I will connect the 6th one to the 4 way.

For the cost [a couple of bucks] of terminators, it would be worth [to me] removing the sixth coax and terminating all open ports.
The open ports cause both the SWiM & DECA signals to bounce/reflect back into the system. Terminations [loads really] stop this.
A long coax with nothing on the other end, can effect the bouncing.

SWiM & DECA gets fairly complex running through a SWiM-16, and it would be interesting to run your original tests, on a properly terminated system.
A.K.A VOS

#56 OFFLINE   jimlenz

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 11:49 AM

For the cost [a couple of bucks] of terminators, it would be worth [to me] removing the sixth coax and terminating all open ports.
The open ports cause both the SWiM & DECA signals to bounce/reflect back into the system. Terminations [loads really] stop this.
A long coax with nothing on the other end, can effect the bouncing.

SWiM & DECA gets fairly complex running through a SWiM-16, and it would be interesting to run your original tests, on a properly terminated system.


I did order some terminators and will install them when received and rerun the tests and post. I will then remove the 6th one and see what happens and report back.

Is there anything with the coax's that were disconnected that I need to be concerned about? Since they are not connected at the other end, it shouldn't be a problem, but figured I would ask.

I believe I get them Thursday so will do this Thursday night. Should get the new splitters then also.

Thanks again for all your assistance. I really do appreciate it.

#57 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 12:27 PM

I did order some terminators and will install them when received and rerun the tests and post. I will then remove the 6th one and see what happens and report back.

Is there anything with the coax's that were disconnected that I need to be concerned about? Since they are not connected at the other end, it shouldn't be a problem, but figured I would ask.

I believe I get them Thursday so will do this Thursday night. Should get the new splitters then also.

Thanks again for all your assistance. I really do appreciate it.

What tests and in what order, I'll leave up to you, but "my interest" is in your current setup, with the sixth coax removed and terminations installed.
This is a fairly common install, so the results will be informative/helpful.
As for the disconnected coax, there isn't much to do/worry about, with them.
A.K.A VOS

#58 OFFLINE   jimlenz

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 12:34 PM

What tests and in what order, I'll leave up to you, but "my interest" is in your current setup, with the sixth coax removed and terminations installed.
This is a fairly common install, so the results will be informative/helpful.
As for the disconnected coax, there isn't much to do/worry about, with them.


That will be the first test I do and will post results. I will then deal with the splitters and retest.

Also, I disconnected the wcck and other wires from the surge protector and verified that the wcck is setup exactly like the picture you posted yesterday. I also verified this is how it is shown to be setup in the manual. Though, based on your comments, there seems to be a better way. Do you have a diagram of how you are suggesting it be setup?

#59 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 01:01 PM

That will be the first test I do and will post results. I will then deal with the splitters and retest.

Also, I disconnected the wcck and other wires from the surge protector and verified that the wcck is setup exactly like the picture you posted yesterday. I also verified this is how it is shown to be setup in the manual. Though, based on your comments, there seems to be a better way. Do you have a diagram of how you are suggesting it be setup?

The picture I posted, where your receiver has a white DECA, and the CCK is connected using its two connectors, might be your best choice. I use mine this way and what it does is not add anymore loss to the SAT signals.
You could do the same thing by connecting it to the main splitter, using a "spare" coax.
Since you're thinking about adding another receiver, it would be worth not using another port on the splitter for "just' the CCK.
A.K.A VOS

#60 OFFLINE   jimlenz

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 04:30 PM

Attached are four pictures of the coax stats on my HR34. The first two are without the 75ohm transistors on the 10 open ports on the 2 splitters.

The final two pictures are with the 75ohm transistors installed. I really do not see any difference with these installed.

I do not have the splitters yet, will get those tomorrow so will see what the test is like when those are installed.

Jim

Attached Thumbnails

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  • 20120105-182531-IMG_0065.jpg


#61 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 05:30 PM

"Resistors" not transistors are used in the terminations.
In the matrix of PHY Mesh, it looks like the nodes have changed from your earlier picture, but the values are about the same.

Changing the splitters will drop some of the loss, and these "should improve", but there may need to be some more work, as even low fifties just aren't that good, "but" should improve your Mesh.
A.K.A VOS

#62 OFFLINE   jimlenz

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 05:32 PM

"Resistors" not transistors are used in the terminations.
In the matrix of PHY Mesh, it looks like the nodes have changed from your earlier picture, but the values are about the same.

Changing the splitters will drop some of the loss, and these "should improve", but there may need to be some more work, as even low fifties just aren't that good, "but" should improve your Mesh.


Yes, you are correct, my error.

If the splitters don't do anything, what is the next step.

Jim

#63 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 05:37 PM

Yes, you are correct, my error.

If the splitters don't do anything, what is the next step.

Jim

The splitter "will do" something, but your next step will be "if they don't do enough", which then shifts to finding where the loss is coming from and trying to make changes for less of it.

While I know doing a "fancy layout" isn't very easy, if/when we get to this point, you'll need to guesstimate from each splitter, how long each coax is.

"Oh yeah" what about that mysterious "sixth coax"????

Have you removed it terminated the port and not had tuner errors???
A.K.A VOS

#64 OFFLINE   jimlenz

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 05:50 PM

The splitter "will do" something, but your next step will be "if they don't do enough", which then shifts to finding where the loss is coming from and trying to make changes for less of it.

While I know doing a "fancy layout" isn't very easy, if/when we get to this point, you'll need to guesstimate from each splitter, how long each coax is.

"Oh yeah" what about that mysterious "sixth coax"????

Have you removed it terminated the port and not had tuner errors???


Going to work on the sixth coax when the kids go to bed. Should have an update in a couple hours.

Jim

#65 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 05:53 PM

Going to work on the sixth coax when the kids go to bed. Should have an update in a couple hours.

Jim

I'm kind of expecting the terminations to "cure" that problem, while I didn't have much hope for the loss/mesh problems.


Also the DECA networking pdf here has been changed/updated in hopes of helping to understand: http://www.dbstalk.c...ad.php?t=200024
A.K.A VOS

#66 OFFLINE   Shades228

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 05:57 PM

I have only read this page and VoS is much smarter than I am when it comes to the RF stuff but the only question I have is why does it look like you have a jumper cable with a ton of spool?

#67 OFFLINE   jimlenz

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 06:35 PM

I'm kind of expecting the terminations to "cure" that problem, while I didn't have much hope for the loss/mesh problems.


Also the DECA networking pdf here has been changed/updated in hopes of helping to understand: http://www.dbstalk.c...ad.php?t=200024


Interesting development. I took the sixth unknown coax off but did not have a terminator for it. Still, I reset a couple boxes and ran system test with the only problems being the 48-190 home network interference error on the two upstairs boxes. The HR34 which has had this before and a hr20 that didnt before.

What is interesting is that the numbers are higher with 60's when I took the 6th coax out. Maybe you can better decipher the numbers. I will go out and by a resistor tomorrow and see if it makes a difference.

Jim

Attached Thumbnails

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#68 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 07:03 PM

Interesting development. I took the sixth unknown coax off but did not have a terminator for it. Still, I reset a couple boxes and ran system test with the only problems being the 48-190 home network interference error on the two upstairs boxes. The HR34 which has had this before and a hr20 that didnt before.

What is interesting is that the numbers are higher with 60's when I took the 6th coax out. Maybe you can better decipher the numbers. I will go out and by a resistor tomorrow and see if it makes a difference.

Jim

I think what you're seeing is that "the numbers" do vary between tests.
This weekend I did some further testing for the pdf updating, and noticed the loss between two nodes increased by 3 dB, but the cabling hadn't changed "one bit" :lol:
Mid to high fifties, can read high fifties to low sixties just as easy.
Now if these readings were being taken by calibrated test equipment, I'd be "bitching like hell", but instead I'm happy DirecTV engineering has given us what they have to get "some idea" of the status of our systems. ;)

With all the open ports, the SWiM signals were reflecting back and forth, which seems "reasonable" for the odd reaction to the "sixth coax". By terminating what you have, even with not all terminated [it seems] the signals have stabilized enough so the SWiM/receivers are no longer giving you the "very strange" error about tuners not being available.
A.K.A VOS

#69 OFFLINE   jimlenz

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 07:22 PM

I think what you're seeing is that "the numbers" do vary between tests.
This weekend I did some further testing for the pdf updating, and noticed the loss between two nodes increased by 3 dB, but the cabling hadn't changed "one bit" :lol:
Mid to high fifties, can read high fifties to low sixties just as easy.
Now if these readings were being taken by calibrated test equipment, I'd be "bitching like hell", but instead I'm happy DirecTV engineering has given us what they have to get "some idea" of the status of our systems. ;)

With all the open ports, the SWiM signals were reflecting back and forth, which seems "reasonable" for the odd reaction to the "sixth coax". By terminating what you have, even with not all terminated [it seems] the signals have stabilized enough so the SWiM/receivers are no longer giving you the "very strange" error about tuners not being available.


Tomorrow I will have the 2 way and 4 way splitters and will install them and all will be terminated. I will update you then.

I would still like to get the network issue taken care of.

Jim

#70 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 07:31 PM

Tomorrow I will have the 2 way and 4 way splitters and will install them and all will be terminated. I will update you then.

I would still like to get the network issue taken care of.

Jim

"And here I thought" that was the point of this endeavor. :lol:
Your installer hasn't done you any favors, so there has been some cleanup needed along the way.
A.K.A VOS

#71 OFFLINE   krazyrs

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 05:37 AM

with the wireless CCK we've had issues where just the small coax run that comes in the kit just needs to be replaced with RG-6

dunno if that's the problem for your network though.
SWiM
HR24-500/HR24-500 - HDMI - Samsung 46" LCD TV
HR24-500 - HDMI - Dynex 32" LCD TV
HR24-500 - HDMI - Vizio 19" LED LCD TV
CCK - Charter - 30mbps down/ 4mbps up

#72 OFFLINE   jimlenz

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 01:04 PM

"And here I thought" that was the point of this endeavor. :lol:
Your installer hasn't done you any favors, so there has been some cleanup needed along the way.


Ok, I'm back and I think you are going to be shocked by the results. I installed the 2 way and 4 way with the 5 coax. No 771 issues.

Attached are the screen shots for the coax stats. The levels are significantly reduced.

Note that when I ran the test on the hr34, I continue to get the Network interference error on both of the upstairs tv's

I think the phy levels are back where they should be? Now, back to the original post, what is the next step on the wcck?

Thanks

Jim

Attached Thumbnails

  • 20120106-145844-IMG_0069.jpg
  • 20120106-145858-IMG_0070.jpg


#73 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 02:09 PM

Ok, I'm back and I think you are going to be shocked by the results. I installed the 2 way and 4 way with the 5 coax. No 771 issues.

Attached are the screen shots for the coax stats. The levels are significantly reduced.

Note that when I ran the test on the hr34, I continue to get the Network interference error on both of the upstairs tv's

I think the phy levels are back where they should be? Now, back to the original post, what is the next step on the wcck?

Thanks

Jim

Node 2 still has a problem. Which receiver/location is Node 2?
A.K.A VOS

#74 OFFLINE   jimlenz

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 02:48 PM

Node 2 still has a problem. Which receiver/location is Node 2?


How do I know which receiver/location is node 2?

#75 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 02:56 PM

How do I know which receiver/location is node 2?

The first screen calls out:
node 2 Master bedroom HMC N/A
^
It may now be a good idea to run this test from other locations.
A.K.A VOS




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