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Power outage during software update. What Happens?


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37 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   mkdtv21

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 10:11 PM

I haven't seen this discussed much, so I wanted to know if the receiver is in the middle of a software update and there is a power failure, is the receiver toast or will it redownload the update.

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#2 OFFLINE   Davenlr

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 10:14 PM

If its past 90%, it might cause problems. Hopefully, it will just reload the original software.

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#3 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 10:15 PM

It would really depend on where it was in the process.
If it was during or below the 95% mark of the download, there isn't any issues.
If it was in the middle of the installation of the update, then it could be a problem.
A.K.A VOS

#4 OFFLINE   allenn

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 12:18 AM

A D* DVR is basically a multi-media PC. I would recommend you connect the DVR to a UPS. Then your update will be protected and finish updating. Just a thought and no argument intended.

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#5 OFFLINE   litzdog911

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 01:36 AM

A D* DVR is basically a multi-media PC. I would recommend you connect the DVR to a UPS. Then your update will be protected and finish updating. Just a thought and no argument intended.


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#6 OFFLINE   flipptyfloppity

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 02:29 AM

Generally nothing happens. That stuff is mostly CYA.

They do everything they can to make sure the update process is foolproof, they just want to further improve the odds by scaring people into being more careful.
room 1:
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room 2:
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#7 OFFLINE   flipptyfloppity

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 02:34 AM

As to UPSes, you'll spend more money just running (let alone purchasing) a UPS than you would likely incur in expenses of PVR replacement.

By far the most financially smart thing to do is just "let it ride" and if the thing blows up and you have to pay D* a few bucks to swap it, then pay them. Running a UPS (on a single receiver) probably costs a bit less than just getting the D* protection plan.

The most sound reason by far to install a UPS is if that if you get sufficient service interruptions (power outages) that you just can't stand the inconvenience of them and rebooting after them. If that isn't a bother to you, then there isn't a lot of reason to recommend one.
room 1:
HR34-700 through Sony STR-DA5300ES amp to LG 55" LE8500 LCD flat panel via HDMI. Discrete OTA.

room 2:
On break. I thought I'd get something in time for baseball, but...

AU9 SWM dish. Channel Master 4228 for UHF + big yagi for VHF w/CM7777 combiner/amplifier.

Connected via wired GigE to Apple Time Capsule base station.

#8 OFFLINE   Richierich

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 06:57 AM

The most sound reason by far to install a UPS is if that if you get sufficient service interruptions (power outages) that you just can't stand the inconvenience of them and rebooting after them. If that isn't a bother to you, then there isn't a lot of reason to recommend one.


There are many many reasons to buy a UPS that also has Automatic Voltage Regulation, Line Conditioning, Surge Protection along with Battery Backup because electronics do not like voltage surges and with Noise on the Line you can get Visual Artifacts, etc. and Rebooting is a PITA so I eliminated all of that years ago by installing Smart APC UPS Devices on all of my DVRs and Electronics and now I have No Problems.
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#9 OFFLINE   flipptyfloppity

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 11:27 AM

There are many many reasons to buy a UPS that also has Automatic Voltage Regulation, Line Conditioning, Surge Protection along with Battery Backup because electronics do not like voltage surges and with Noise on the Line you can get Visual Artifacts, etc. and Rebooting is a PITA so I eliminated all of that years ago by installing Smart APC UPS Devices on all of my DVRs and Electronics and now I have No Problems.


A UPS such as you bought doesn't do much more than a surge protector does except in the cases where the power goes out. In other words, if it's not making that loud whirring noise (running its inverter), it's really doing as much as a good surge supressor would.

A device like a DirecTV box is far less sensitive to voltage surges than you would think. It's designed to deal with them, and it does. There's no reason at all to think that there's anything that an external surge supressor can do that cannot be done in the power supply of the DirecTV box, the only real thing an external surge supressor can do is be expendable. If a big surge comes along and overloads the supressor and destroys it, then you replace it cheaply instead of replacing the device plugged into it. If this happens, you'll know you saved money every time you replace your surge supressor. But when's the last time you had to replace a surge supressor because it died taking a bullet for your AV equipment? Me? Never. You? Probably not a lot I'd suspect.

The switching power supplies in a device like a DirecTV box (or a PC) can tolerate all kinds of awful power, it really doesn't care much, they can tolerate high voltages (many are even designed to use them continuously when used in Europe where the voltage is doubled) and even tolerate noisy power (switching power supplies generate so much noise internally that external noise doesn't add much to its task of making smooth output).

What they really cannot tolerate is low voltages. Put in 70V for 15 minutes and you'll blow out several electronic devices in your house. A compact fluorescent lamp uses a switching power supply. Plug one into a dimmer and dim it and just listen as the bulb power supply burns itself up. A UPS is very good for correcting this problem.

But the electric companies know this as well as I do or anyone does, so they try their hardest not to send low voltages like that. They know it's bad business. So unless your electric company does an especially bad job of it (some do), there's little to worry about.

In the last 20 years I lost more money buying and running UPSes than I saved in equipment damage. I lost more money from the equipment that my high-quality APS UPS damaged by itself (note I'm not saying this will happen to you) than I ever saved in equipment damage.

If the direct impact of poor quality power (reboots and their delays) affects you, get a UPS. But getting one to save your equipment or make sure it doesn't mis-operate due to line noise is generally not necessary or even a bad idea.
room 1:
HR34-700 through Sony STR-DA5300ES amp to LG 55" LE8500 LCD flat panel via HDMI. Discrete OTA.

room 2:
On break. I thought I'd get something in time for baseball, but...

AU9 SWM dish. Channel Master 4228 for UHF + big yagi for VHF w/CM7777 combiner/amplifier.

Connected via wired GigE to Apple Time Capsule base station.

#10 OFFLINE   Richierich

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 11:41 AM

All I know is that I have had Great Results using my APC S15 and J15 Battery Backup UPSs and I would do it all over again in a heartbeat.

I get no Visual Artifacts that a lot of people report and I Never get Reboots caused by momentart power outages and my Denon does not like Power Fluctuations and one of the worst things a Hard Drive can experience other than Heat is a Sudden Shutdown and Not a Graceful Shutdown and these two things shorten the life of a Hard Drive more than any other thing.

You can plug a Hair Dryer into the outlet next to my TV and see all kinds of distortion and white noise but with my APC S15 or J15 you get None of these Noise Artifacts.

So I am convinced it is Best for my Expensive Home Entertainment Equipment and I will do everything to protect the equipment and to try to ensure it's longevity.

Periodic Reboots just drove me nuts until I got my APC UPS Devices and now I have peace of mind that I won't be interrupted during a Golf Tournament or a Football Game, etc.
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#11 OFFLINE   Herdfan

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 03:54 PM

All my DVR's and my SWM-16 are on UPS's. It is not about protecting them from power going out. Instead it is about protecting my recordings to the best of my ability.

If a DVR dies in the middle of a software update, the replacement cost is the last thing I am going to be upset about.

#12 OFFLINE   xzi

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 03:57 PM

I've made the UPS argument in here before, and people don't get it. True-sine On-line UPS's are very expensive and anything you have at home isn't any better than a surge protector until the power fails.

#13 OFFLINE   allenn

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 09:44 PM

I've made the UPS argument in here before, and people don't get it. True-sine On-line UPS's are very expensive and anything you have at home isn't any better than a surge protector until the power fails.


:lol:!rolling:rolling: your comment has never made me laugh so hard. I'm in tears. Please, look at APC UPS specs. I know you will discover they act like electronic valves and control the flow high and low. Have a nice day and thanks for the laugh!

PrimeStar/DIRECTV subscriber since 10/30/1994.
Roswell, GA (Atlanta Area)
2 D* HR24-100s and AM21s
MRV - D* SWiM LNB, PI-21 module, and Wireless DECA Cinema Connection Kit (CCK-W)
Linksys WRT310N


#14 OFFLINE   Richierich

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 10:07 PM

:lol:!rolling:rolling: your comment has never made me laugh so hard. I'm in tears. Please, look at APC UPS specs. I know you will discover they act like electronic valves and control the flow high and low. Have a nice day and thanks for the laugh!


+1.

Some people just don't get it or they are Fiscally Frugal and Rationalize that it is not worth the money!!!

Edited by Richierich, 06 January 2012 - 10:22 AM.

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#15 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 10:29 PM

+1.

Some people just don't get it or they are Cheap Minded and Rationalize that it is not worth the money!!!

Hey! While I'm cheap, I don't need to rationalize that I don't need any of my [dead battery] UPSs.
Think my DVRs have been working fine without them for about 4 years. ;)
A.K.A VOS

#16 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 10:57 PM

Not that long ago (month or so) our nearest transformer [for whole block] somehow lost neutral and one phase line got 140+ VAC, but other ~70VAC; I did manage to measure 20+ power outlets in my home with DMM and turn off those devices what was on over-voltage phase, keep lights on other. Not sure if other 100s ppl around did same move. To those who are asked me - why some lamps (they didn't mention TVs, DVRs, etc) too bright while other too dim ? - I recommend turn off all equipment and wait for PG&E will fix the problem (they did it in 3 hours).

Now a question to my neighbor - flipptyfloppity - what could be your solution for such (ordinary) case if you are from that group of wondered ppl without DMM and little knowledge about phases/voltage out of range, etc ?

#17 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 11:11 PM

I haven't seen this discussed much, so I wanted to know if the receiver is in the middle of a software update and there is a power failure, is the receiver toast or will it redownload the update.


Practically nothing.
See how the STB designed:
- each box keep in flash [EEPROM] protected bootloader, what always in good working condition;
- if you see progress up to 98%, that means the FW from sat just accumulating in RAM - nothing changed yet - nothing to worry;
- last 2 or 3% of the process is erasing/programming/verifying sector by sector (or page by page, if the chip is support the mode); worst case could happen during the phase; but bootloader (on reboot) will verify integrity of updatable area and has a provision to start DL process again;
- there are some rare cases, when new FW required remapping serial EEPROM [NVRAM], normally it would happen on first reboot after FW update - new version should do that, but some old don't and it could bring havoc, well most of the time you could run internal diagnostics and it should attempt fix the issue.
Not too many cases left when only knowledgeable eng/tech could fix it on site ... but big company has simple policy to retrieve the box and send a replacement.

#18 OFFLINE   Richierich

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 10:23 AM

Hey! While I'm cheap, I don't need to rationalize that I don't need any of my [dead battery] UPSs.
Think my DVRs have been working fine without them for about 4 years. ;)


So you Never have any Periodic Reboots during a Momentary Power Outage of a second or two which causes you to have to wait 10 minutes or more for the Reboot to Finish??? :)
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#19 OFFLINE   Stuart Sweet

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 10:28 AM

I can't say that, but I can say "it's just TV" and in general I don't worry about losing power so much as I worry about surge protection.
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#20 OFFLINE   JeffBowser

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 10:41 AM

Our power here in S. Florida fluctates and goes out on a daily basis, sometimes several times a day, long enough to just reset electronic devices. Drives me mad. I have an APC Smart UPS on every single non-motor outlet in my house. Yes, the 4 year battery replacement cycle makes me nuts, but I deal with it because FPL doesn't.

On a side-note, I noticed on this thread that you use capitals to start a lot of words - why is that?

So you Never have any Periodic Reboots during a Momentary Power Outage of a second or two which causes you to have to wait 10 minutes or more for the Reboot to Finish??? :)


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