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The official "ask veryoldschool" [or peds48] thread


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#381 ONLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 12:37 PM

My dish got bumped out of whack and had to be realigned. The technician was required to verify that my DVR was connected to the internet before he left. He hit "restore defaults" and miraculously everything worked and he left.

At this point, I got into damage control mode. I use a WGA600N gaming adapter as a wireless bridge. I had a static IP address configured, because way back when I set this up, I had to do that to get it to work. Change things back to the static IP address and things don't work.

At this point, I have verified that WGA600N configuration and made sure it matches the other WGA600N I use with an H21. The router sees the WGA600N, has the correct IP address assigned to it for the HR20, and I can ping other computers in my house from the 600N.
I have used Advance Settings to get all of the router address info straight in the HR20-100.
I've done reboots and full power downs on the HR20 and the WGA600N.
No matter what I do, the HR20 fails to connect to the internet. I get the ever popular "Not connected (22)" and a result code of 86-071.

Any ideas what to check. I have an HR21-700 configured in my home theater with the same settings and it works just fine. Only difference is that I use a powerline adapter to connect that DVR to my router.

Everything was great until the technician did his thing..... (grumble, grumble)

So if I follow everything:
The gaming adapter is configured and connects to your router.
Once you've gone into the advanced network settings, you've lost the auto detect function, so I'd reset the network defaults [again] and reboot the HR20.
When it comes back up it should find the internet. If it doesn't, then I'd go into the network setup, "but" simply used the "connect now" option and if asked, select a wired network [since the wireless adapter is already configured].
If this works, and I wanted to go static, I'd then only change the IP address under advanced settings.
If you need to load more than the IP address, this normally [for me] means I've got other problems and don't get very much success entering everything manually.
A.K.A VOS

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#382 OFFLINE   cwdonahue

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 12:53 PM

So if I follow everything:
The gaming adapter is configured and connects to your router.
Once you've gone into the advanced network settings, you've lost the auto detect function, so I'd reset the network defaults [again] and reboot the HR20.
When it comes back up it should find the internet. If it doesn't, then I'd go into the network setup, "but" simply used the "connect now" option and if asked, select a wired network [since the wireless adapter is already configured].
If this works, and I wanted to go static, I'd then only change the IP address under advanced settings.
If you need to load more than the IP address, this normally [for me] means I've got other problems and don't get very much success entering everything manually.


Thanks for the guidance, but it looks like something else was the problem...heat. I was going to have some time today to play with the configuration with everyone out of the house. But last night, we got an error message that the HR20 was getting hot and would shutdown. Pulled it out of the cabinet, took a look, and nothing was clogging up the fan or airflow. Reinstalled it after it cooled off and noticed that the fan seemed rather silent. 45 mins. later, thermal shutdown. So, I have a replacement DVR on the way and hopefully that one will behave as expected. Hope the replacement is current vintage.

#383 OFFLINE   cwdonahue

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 04:59 PM

Thanks for the guidance, but it looks like something else was the problem...heat. I was going to have some time today to play with the configuration with everyone out of the house. But last night, we got an error message that the HR20 was getting hot and would shutdown. Pulled it out of the cabinet, took a look, and nothing was clogging up the fan or airflow. Reinstalled it after it cooled off and noticed that the fan seemed rather silent. 45 mins. later, thermal shutdown. So, I have a replacement DVR on the way and hopefully that one will behave as expected. Hope the replacement is current vintage.


I received an HR21-200 as a replacement DVR. Since it knows how to configure itself with my WGA600n wireless adapter, setting up the network connection was a breeze. All is well for now.

#384 OFFLINE   geoff_g

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 09:57 PM

I have 2 HR24's, a SWM8, a 1x2 splitter, and a Cinema connection kit.
Expansion is not foreseen - 2 DVRs is enough.

My connection plan is as follows:

SWM8 Port 1 to PI-29 to 1st HR24

The PI-29 will be near the SWM8 and the 1st DVR cable length is ~25'

SWM8 Port 2 to 1x2 splitter to 2nd HR24 and Cinema connection kit

The splitter and Cinema Connection Kit will also be close (<3') to the SWM8 and the 2nd DVR cable length is <60'


Is there a better connection scheme?
Are there any minimum cable length concerns?

#385 ONLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 10:22 PM

I have 2 HR24's, a SWM8, a 1x2 splitter, and a Cinema connection kit.
Expansion is not foreseen - 2 DVRs is enough.

My connection plan is as follows:

SWM8 Port 1 to PI-29 to 1st HR24

The PI-29 will be near the SWM8 and the 1st DVR cable length is ~25'

SWM8 Port 2 to 1x2 splitter to 2nd HR24 and Cinema connection kit

The splitter and Cinema Connection Kit will also be close (<3') to the SWM8 and the 2nd DVR cable length is <60'

Is there a better connection scheme?
Are there any minimum cable length concerns?

The SWM8 to PI might be an issue.
If the two can't be the min 15', you can use the #3 legacy port to power it and the distance won't be a problem.
A.K.A VOS

#386 OFFLINE   geoff_g

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 05:30 AM

The SWM8 to PI might be an issue.
If the two can't be the min 15', you can use the #3 legacy port to power it and the distance won't be a problem.

Thanks much for your help - it is very much appreciated.

Is there any disadvantage to connecting the PI to Legacy Port 3?

I'm still gathering the necessary hardware and have some flexibility - I want to connect this stuff in the most efficient (lowest signal loss) manner and if there is a more optimal scheme I'm all ears.

Thanks again!

Edited by geoff_g, 23 August 2012 - 05:50 AM.


#387 ONLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 05:58 AM

Thanks much for your help - it is very much appreciated.

Is there any disadvantage to connecting the PI to Legacy Port 3?

I'm still gathering the necessary hardware and have some flexibility - I want to connect this stuff in the most efficient (lowest signal loss) manner and if there is a more optimal scheme I'm all ears.

Thanks again!

The MDU people [who the SWM8 was made for] use the #3 all the time, so I'd say no.
Keep the dish to SWM8 coax runs short.
Use only the size splitter that you need. "Larger isn't better".
A.K.A VOS

#388 OFFLINE   geoff_g

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 06:31 AM

The MDU people [who the SWM8 was made for] use the #3 all the time, so I'd say no.
Keep the dish to SWM8 coax runs short.
Use only the size splitter that you need. "Larger isn't better".

The AT9 dish to SWM 8 runs are ~ 15'.
Understood on the splitters.....that's why I went to a 1x2 splitter on SWM8 Port 2. I was not clear on the insertion loss between SWM8 Ports 1 & 2 though (for MRV viewing).

On a side topic....how does the AT9/SWM8 combo compare to a SWM Dish for rain fade?

Again thanks for the help!

#389 ONLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 07:08 AM

The AT9 dish to SWM 8 runs are ~ 15'.
Understood on the splitters.....that's why I went to a 1x2 splitter on SWM8 Port 2. I was not clear on the insertion loss between SWM8 Ports 1 & 2 though (for MRV viewing).

On a side topic....how does the AT9/SWM8 combo compare to a SWM Dish for rain fade?

Again thanks for the help!

The dish to SWM8 can be 45'.
Are you really still using an AT9 [side car]? Most of those have been replaced with the AU9 "Slimline".
The SWM8 wasn't really designed with MRV in mind. Later models have had an internal bandstop filter added, but the two outputs come from an internal 2-way splitter.
All the other SWiMs now have removed internal splitters, so they have a single output [the -16 has two SWiM sections, with one output from each].
It sounds a bit like you're worrying about insertion loss "more than you should", with a SWiM system.
SWiM to farthest receiver has a loss budget of -30 dB. The performance isn't going to change if your loss is only 10 dB, or 20 dB.

SWiM has an AGC which is why it has the 30 dB loss budget. If you stay within this, "rainfade" comes when the LNB loses lock on the signal because there isn't enough to lock onto.
This "may" be a little better than a non SWiM system.

"Generally" I'd say if you're not planing on having more than 8 tuners, I'd go with the SWiM LNB & slimline dish, and a 4-way splitter. This should be the optimum for both the SWiM & DECA/whole home networking. It also gives some flexibility to add a 2-way down stream if you need to split a coax to feed two.
A.K.A VOS

#390 OFFLINE   geoff_g

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 07:26 AM

I installed the AT9 when I built my house as it was the latest version. It's worked fine in the 6 years (or so) that it's been up. The antenna is on the side of the house and its cables run into a "wiring room" about 1 story down and directly beneath the dish so the cable lengths are relatively short. I elected to leave the dish alone and install the SWM 8 rather than change to a SWM dish (or an AU9). All wiring is home run's to the wiring room using a very good belden (w/CU center conductor) RG6 cable. I presently have an HR20 and HR21 but the slow remote response really annoys me and I want MRV so I decided to bite the bullet and upgrade to SWM and also upgrade the receivers (even though DirecTV says this is not an upgrade). I have not been following DirecTV hardware and did not know the SWM 8 has AGC. That is good. The SWM 8 should be in todays mail so I'll see if it has two ports. If not then I'll get a 4 way splitter.

#391 ONLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 07:30 AM

I installed the AT9 when I built my house as it was the latest version. It's worked fine in the 6 years (or so) that it's been up. The antenna is on the side of the house and its cables run into a "wiring room" about 1 story down and directly beneath the dish so the cable lengths are relatively short. I elected to leave the dish alone and install the SWM 8 rather than change to a SWM dish (or an AU9). All wiring is home run's to the wiring room using a very good belden (w/CU center conductor) RG6 cable. I presently have an HR20 and HR21 but the slow remote response really annoys me and I want MRV so I decided to bite the bullet and upgrade to SWM and also upgrade the receivers (even though DirecTV says this is not an upgrade). I have not been following DirecTV hardware and did not know the SWM 8 has AGC. That is good. The SWM 8 should be in todays mail so I'll see if it has two ports. If not then I'll get a 4 way splitter.

It will and the second has a termination on it.
The exposed connectors from the 110 & 119 LNBs are a weak point of the AT9.
A.K.A VOS

#392 OFFLINE   geoff_g

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 08:02 AM

I must admit I don't like the exposed connectors but hadn't thought of them as being a reliability issue since I've never had an issue. In hindsight I probably should have changed the dish. I guess that'll eventually happen down the road ....

I wish I had a better understanding of the technology.....I've done a lot of electronics design - including several years of design with RF and communications/radar simulators - but I don't fully understand what's inside of the SWM hardware so I'm here asking dumb questions....

Thanks again,

Geoff

#393 ONLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 08:13 AM

I must admit I don't like the exposed connectors but hadn't thought of them as being a reliability issue since I've never had an issue. In hindsight I probably should have changed the dish. I guess that'll eventually happen down the road ....

I wish I had a better understanding of the technology.....I've done a lot of electronics design - including several years of design with RF and communications/radar simulators - but I don't fully understand what's inside of the SWM hardware so I'm here asking dumb questions....

Thanks again,

Geoff

The SWiM is basically a "pre-tuner". Each receiver sends a request over a 2.3 MHz FSK signal. The SWiM outputs 9 [IF] "channels" from around 970 MHz to around 1,800 MHz. The lowest is common to all as it carries the guide data. 2-9 are assigned to the tuners [for the 8 max].
Inputs from -15 dBm to -45 dBm are within the AGC range for a -30 dBm output.
"DECA" uses 525-575 MHz.
A.K.A VOS

#394 OFFLINE   geoff_g

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 08:35 AM

The SWiM is basically a "pre-tuner". Each receiver sends a request over a 2.3 MHz FSK signal. The SWiM outputs 9 [IF] "channels" from around 970 MHz to around 1,800 MHz. The lowest is common to all as it carries the guide data. 2-9 are assigned to the tuners [for the 8 max].
Inputs from -15 dBm to -45 dBm are within the AGC range for a -30 dBm output.
"DECA" uses 525-575 MHz.

This helps.
And now I understand why the BBC's (and the Band Stop filter) is required.
You're a really big asset to this site!!

#395 ONLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 08:54 AM

This helps.
And now I understand why the BBC's (and the Band Stop filter) is required.
You're a really big asset to this site!!

The "BBC" was an upconverter used on non SWiM because the 250-750 MHz band was below the receiver's range for all but the H/HR23.
BSF are needed with DECA since each one outputs about 0 dBm and this causes problems with tuners and the SWiM.
A.K.A VOS

#396 OFFLINE   geoff_g

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 10:03 AM

The "BBC" was an upconverter used on non SWiM because the 250-750 MHz band was below the receiver's range for all but the H/HR23.
BSF are needed with DECA since each one outputs about 0 dBm and this causes problems with tuners and the SWiM.

I figured the band stop filter is used to attenuate the 525-575 DECA signals but wasn't sure of the upconversion details.

#397 OFFLINE   geoff_g

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 02:56 PM

I've completed part of my hardware transition and the SWM stuff is now in place and both DVR's are SWMing (I have the 2 DVRs connected directly to the 2 SWM ports as I am still waiting for the 1x2 splitter and Cinema Connection kit). I connected the PI to the Legacy 3 port as suggested and everything seems to be working well so far.

I am curious tho, what is the reason behind the 15' cabling between the PI and SWM?

Thanks again VOS!!

#398 ONLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 04:12 PM

I've completed part of my hardware transition and the SWM stuff is now in place and both DVR's are SWMing (I have the 2 DVRs connected directly to the 2 SWM ports as I am still waiting for the 1x2 splitter and Cinema Connection kit). I connected the PI to the Legacy 3 port as suggested and everything seems to be working well so far.

I am curious tho, what is the reason behind the 15' cabling between the PI and SWM?

Thanks again VOS!!

The DC block [cap] in the PI can cause some issues, so either line length or a splitters adds a resistive component to the impedance and helps.
A.K.A VOS

#399 OFFLINE   geoff_g

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 04:40 PM

The DC block [cap] in the PI can cause some issues, so either line length or a splitters adds a resistive component to the impedance and helps.

That makes some sense. I imagine the wide signal frequency range doesn't help.

#400 OFFLINE   Jnelson

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 10:51 AM

I apologize if this has been asked and answered, but I could not find.
I'm getting an HR34 installed into a system with: 3 HR22s and 1 HR20-700, all connected with ethernet to router. Will I need DECAs for each of the existing receivers even tho HR34 will be acting as CCK? Is there a diagram anywhere showing a set up with HR34 in the system?




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