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The official "ask veryoldschool" [or peds48] thread


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803 replies to this topic

#421 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 05:37 PM

A) Skywalker 2-way splitters would be my choice to run them in parallel.
If there is a downside it's the loss of the splitters, but it may not have much affect, since rainfade for the most part is in the LNB, when the signals drop so much that the LO loses lock.

B) Cascading can also be done, but you do need to use an amp between them, because the legacy ports have significant loss. Sonora makes a 13-14 dB amp that has been used and works well.


The legacy has a lot more loss than a splitter even on a couple feet of cable? Interesting... Thanks!

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#422 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 05:44 PM

The legacy has a lot more loss than a splitter even on a couple feet of cable? Interesting... Thanks!

A 2-way may have 5 dB, where the legacy has a good 10+ dB.
A.K.A VOS

#423 OFFLINE   TexasJames

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 10:13 AM

First ... stumbled across this thread doing a search and read it from start to finish. Awesome info! Thanks VOS for sharing so much knowledge.

Now for my question. :-) But let me start with the background:

I just converted/upgraded from multiswitch wiring and the old-style ethernet Whole Home (MRV) to SWiM and WDCCK/DECA. During the install my last HR20-700 was "replaced" with a HR24, so I ended up with 3 HR24s on the SWiM with a WDCCK connected to one of those, providing Whole Home and internet access over coax. I also had coax dropped in a 4th location for future use (thought I might add a HD receiver-only there).

DirecTV didn't want the HR20 back (and never even took it off the account :-( ), so after some pondering I decide to use it in that open location. I hooked it up and after reconfiguring the antenna setup and a few other changes it worked great. Except, of course, it wasn't participating in Whole Home and had no internet access. Called DirecTV and that's when I learned about DECA built-in vs. not built-in. They promptly sent me a white DECA for the HR20 and were supposed to send a band stop filter (BSF) as well. Only the BSF never showed. I called again and got conflicting info this time. Basically I was told the BSF is only needed when the CCK is on that same HR-DVR. Since my CCK was elsewhere, BSF not needed.

Reading this thread I see some mentions of the BSF:

Yes, any H/HR2x model receivers that don't have DECA built into them need to have a BSF in place if they are on a SWM system where DECA is being used and they don't have their own DECA.


... BSF are needed with DECA since each one outputs about 0 dBm and this causes problems with tuners and the SWiM.


So now I'm leaning to the conclusion that a BSF is needed in my setup. But I'm not sure. :-( So my question is, do I need a BSF on the HR20-700, along with the DECA?

Also, I haven't connected the DECA yet as I'm trying to make sure I do it right the first time. But now I'm wondering if I should disconnect the HR20 until I do that. Am I harming the receiver by not blocking the internet signals?

-TJ

HR24-100 and HR44-700 w/ (2) C41-500 clients (full setup)


#424 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 10:41 AM

So now I'm leaning to the conclusion that a BSF is needed in my setup. But I'm not sure. :-( So my question is, do I need a BSF on the HR20-700, along with the DECA?

Also, I haven't connected the DECA yet as I'm trying to make sure I do it right the first time. But now I'm wondering if I should disconnect the HR20 until I do that. Am I harming the receiver by not blocking the internet signals?

You have an HR20-700, so you don't need a BSF "if" you connect the white DECA to the SAT #1.

The whole idea is:
The DECA signal has a much higher level than all the other signals. This needs to be blocked from the receiver's SAT input, as it can cause distortion.
Using a DECA [or having one internally] does this. If the receiver doesn't have a DECA, but is connected to a SWiM with the coax networking, "then" it needs a filter to block it.

The HR20-100 is the only exception as it has a strange way to connect a DECA because it needs to connect to the SAT #2 for DC power.
A.K.A VOS

#425 OFFLINE   TexasJames

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 12:55 PM

You have an HR20-700, so you don't need a BSF "if" you connect the white DECA to the SAT #1.

The whole idea is:
The DECA signal has a much higher level than all the other signals. This needs to be blocked from the receiver's SAT input, as it can cause distortion.
Using a DECA [or having one internally] does this. If the receiver doesn't have a DECA, but is connected to a SWiM with the coax networking, "then" it needs a filter to block it.

The HR20-100 is the only exception as it has a strange way to connect a DECA because it needs to connect to the SAT #2 for DC power.


Thanks VOS for the quick reply and concise info.

One update. :-( I opened the DECA box to do the setup and see that I actually received a "black DECA", not a "white DECA". It is a * DCA2SR0-18 * - is the any difference in how I use that?

(Is the black DECA really the same as the wired CCK - thought I read that somewhere?)

-TJ

HR24-100 and HR44-700 w/ (2) C41-500 clients (full setup)


#426 OFFLINE   TexasJames

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 02:05 PM

... I opened the DECA box to do the setup and see that I actually received a "black DECA", not a "white DECA". It is a * DCA2SR0-18 * - is the any difference in how I use that?

Never mind! I found the First Looks on the DECA II from earlier this year. Already have the DECA installed and everything looks good so far. Thanks again!

-TJ

HR24-100 and HR44-700 w/ (2) C41-500 clients (full setup)


#427 OFFLINE   RD in Fla

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 06:55 PM

This is essentially what I suspect is a "stupid question". Installed a SWiM LNB a few years back when I only needed 8 tuners, following VOS's advice. Out comes the HR34 and life has changed. 8 tuners is not enough. Absent changing the LNB back to its original form, with four outputs and using a SWiM 16, is there any way to increase the tuner count with a SWiM LNB installed?

#428 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 07:21 PM

This is essentially what I suspect is a "stupid question". Installed a SWiM LNB a few years back when I only needed 8 tuners, following VOS's advice. Out comes the HR34 and life has changed. 8 tuners is not enough. Absent changing the LNB back to its original form, with four outputs and using a SWiM 16, is there any way to increase the tuner count with a SWiM LNB installed?

Not a stupid question, but you already know the answer: "nope".
A.K.A VOS

#429 OFFLINE   drpjr

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 03:51 PM

VOS, Last week I upgraded from three HR20-100's to an HR34, two HR24-500's and kept one old box. They relpaced the LNB added a SWiM 16 multiswitch and the "obligatory" CCK. All is working as it should. I had been using an unsupported ethernet for wholehome and VOD. I would like to eliminate the CCK and go back to my existing ethernet. The power inserter and CCk are located next to the HR34 both using dedicated co-ax from the multiswitch. My questions are: Can I eliminate the CCK and use the existing ethernet as before? Each box has ethernet homerun to the router. Does the HR20-100 require any special hook-up.

One note, I added an HR24 at the same location as the HR20 where only two co-ax are run. Will the HR20 still have two tuners and internet with only one co-ax using SWiM hookup while other boxes will be ethernet? Thanks.
HR34/HR24-500/Mits WD73C8
HR20-100 HR24-500//Samsung UN55F6350AF
SWiM Network w/MRV
AT&T 2Wire Gateway Modem/Router

#430 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 04:39 PM

VOS, Last week I upgraded from three HR20-100's to an HR34, two HR24-500's and kept one old box. They relpaced the LNB added a SWiM 16 multiswitch and the "obligatory" CCK. All is working as it should. I had been using an unsupported ethernet for wholehome and VOD. I would like to eliminate the CCK and go back to my existing ethernet. The power inserter and CCk are located next to the HR34 both using dedicated co-ax from the multiswitch. My questions are: Can I eliminate the CCK and use the existing ethernet as before? Each box has ethernet homerun to the router. Does the HR20-100 require any special hook-up.

One note, I added an HR24 at the same location as the HR20 where only two co-ax are run. Will the HR20 still have two tuners and internet with only one co-ax using SWiM hookup while other boxes will be ethernet? Thanks.

Why would you want to take a "working as it should" system and go back to ethernet?
You could drop the CCK and use ethernet directly to the HR34, as it is the only receiver that can act as the bridge between ethernet and the DECA network.
You'll need to terminate the coax where the CCK is.
With a SWiM, one coax gives access to all the tuners.
A.K.A VOS

#431 OFFLINE   drpjr

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 12:06 AM

Why would you want to take a "working as it should" system and go back to ethernet?
You could drop the CCK and use ethernet directly to the HR34, as it is the only receiver that can act as the bridge between ethernet and the DECA network..


Only reason is to eliminate one power cord and reduce(minutely) what is already an insane amout of wiring in the home theatre. The CCK also runs pretty warm.

You'll need to terminate the coax where the CCK is. With a SWiM, one coax gives access to all the tuners.


Terminate as in disconnect from multiswitch and ground that output or can I use a barrel connector and ground on the end of coax? I would expect the same result. Thanks for your help.
HR34/HR24-500/Mits WD73C8
HR20-100 HR24-500//Samsung UN55F6350AF
SWiM Network w/MRV
AT&T 2Wire Gateway Modem/Router

#432 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 09:04 AM

Only reason is to eliminate one power cord and reduce(minutely) what is already an insane amout of wiring in the home theatre. The CCK also runs pretty warm.

Terminate as in disconnect from multiswitch and ground that output or can I use a barrel connector and ground on the end of coax? I would expect the same result. Thanks for your help.

Terminate as in use a 75 ohm "load" [or what's called a termination] on the coax or the splitter where the coax connected.
RF signals will reflect from either an open cable or a shorted cable, which can cause problems. A 75 ohm resistor "terminates" a coax so this doesn't happen.
A.K.A VOS

#433 OFFLINE   drpjr

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 02:09 PM

Thanks again, I knew there was a reason I kept the ones off the multiswitch. All systems go.
HR34/HR24-500/Mits WD73C8
HR20-100 HR24-500//Samsung UN55F6350AF
SWiM Network w/MRV
AT&T 2Wire Gateway Modem/Router

#434 OFFLINE   Juanus

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 05:17 PM

VOS,

I have a question. I have an extra PI. My neighbor is having trouble with his Time Warner system where he is not getting enough power through and they keep trying to cap off ports and the more ports they cap off, the better the signal, ect (thats the short version of the story) I was wondering if a DTV PI would work on his TW system?

Thanks
Juanus

#435 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 05:48 PM

VOS,

I have a question. I have an extra PI. My neighbor is having trouble with his Time Warner system where he is not getting enough power through and they keep trying to cap off ports and the more ports they cap off, the better the signal, ect (thats the short version of the story) I was wondering if a DTV PI would work on his TW system?

Thanks
Juanus

Nope, they're completely different systems. The PI is just for DC and cable uses AC for their amps.
Sounds like maybe a smaller splitter would help more.
A.K.A VOS

#436 OFFLINE   Juanus

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 06:47 PM

Thanks, I was afraid that was the answer. I was just brainstorming solutions.

#437 OFFLINE   lzhj9k

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 11:56 AM

VOS

I could use your help

I just upgraded my system with an HR-34, H25 and three C31 clients. I did retain an HR23.

I ran the Coax network test on the HR-34 only as a result of some whole home playback issues..

0 Great Room Hr-34 N/A
1 Node... -19
2 West Wing C31 -25
3 Node -25
4 Node -17
5 Kitchen C31 -25
6 Home Office C31 -24

Dropped session Count 52

0 229 253 246 230 246 244 244
1 243 231 279 237 249 278 281
2 234 286 227 235 247 281 279
3 232 251 246 227 241 246 244
4 249 253 246 240 235 244 246
5 238 289 281 241 248 228 279
6 239 291 278 240 248 279 229

I have a green dot SWM LNB
Green label 8 way splitter with 1 unused port capped
I have a Wired BroadBand Deca
I have an original white receiver deca on the HR-23

Not using ethernet for the HR-34
But could and discontinue the Broadband Deca

I am using a 29V Power Inserter which is in between the LNB and the 8 Way Splitter

Whole home had been working well. however since the system upgrade playback from the HR-23 to the HR-34 has had Video issues

Suggestions..

Thanks

Mike

 

HR-34  HR-23  H25  2-C31 Clients and 1 C41 Client


#438 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 12:32 PM

VOS

I could use your help

I just upgraded my system with an HR-34, H25 and three C31 clients. I did retain an HR23.

I ran the Coax network test on the HR-34 only as a result of some whole home playback issues..

0 Great Room Hr-34 N/A
1 Node... -19
2 West Wing C31 -25
3 Node -25
4 Node -17
5 Kitchen C31 -25
6 Home Office C31 -24

Dropped session Count 52

0 229 253 246 230 246 244 244
1 243 231 279 237 249 278 281
2 234 286 227 235 247 281 279
3 232 251 246 227 241 246 244
4 249 253 246 240 235 244 246
5 238 289 281 241 248 228 279
6 239 291 278 240 248 279 229

I have a green dot SWM LNB
Green label 8 way splitter with 1 unused port capped
I have a Wired BroadBand Deca
I have an original white receiver deca on the HR-23

Not using ethernet for the HR-34
But could and discontinue the Broadband Deca

I am using a 29V Power Inserter which is in between the LNB and the 8 Way Splitter

Whole home had been working well. however since the system upgrade playback from the HR-23 to the HR-34 has had Video issues

Suggestions..

Thanks

Dropped session count is due to the C31s, so you'll need to dismiss that for now.
A few of your mesh rates are a bit low, but above the min.

Since it's the HR23 location that may be the problem, I'd swap the H25 with it and run the same coax test from the H25, as it will give another look at the system.

The way you have things configured looks fine. I've gotten slightly better mesh numbers with a BSF on the splitter input. Your LNB has a BSF, but the coax from the splitter to it doesn't need to have DECA on it and shortening [dropping] this leg may slightly improve your mesh numbers. I'd say this would be a minor tweak and not expect it to cure/fix anything though.
More interesting would be the numbers from the HR23 location using the H25.
A.K.A VOS

#439 OFFLINE   lzhj9k

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 01:51 PM

VOS

Thanks for you opinion and guidance

I will run the coax test from the MasterBedroom location which is where the
H25 is currently and then I will do as you suggested and move the H25 to the spare bedroom in place of the HR23 and rerun the test..

I just came in from mowing and it will take me a little while to do as you suggested...

Will be back with you shortly

Thanks agian Mr Wizard (VOS)

Mike

 

HR-34  HR-23  H25  2-C31 Clients and 1 C41 Client


#440 OFFLINE   lzhj9k

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 03:24 PM

VOS.....

H25 In Present location (Master Bedroom)

0 -20

1 N/A

2

3 -17

4 -16

5 -18

6 -12

Dropped Sessions 0

0 1 2 3 4 5 6

0 239 259 0 241 254 254 255

1 249 239 0 245 254 289 292

2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

3 240 258 0 236 248 254 254

4 257 259 0 248 246 254 256

5 242 296 0 244 255 237 289

6 247 297 0 245 254 291 237

Mike

 

HR-34  HR-23  H25  2-C31 Clients and 1 C41 Client





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