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The official "ask veryoldschool" thread


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823 replies to this topic

#401 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 12:37 PM

I apologize if this has been asked and answered, but I could not find.
I'm getting an HR34 installed into a system with: 3 HR22s and 1 HR20-700, all connected with ethernet to router. Will I need DECAs for each of the existing receivers even tho HR34 will be acting as CCK? Is there a diagram anywhere showing a set up with HR34 in the system?

I'd guess you're going to end up with a SWiM-16 because of the tuner count, and a DECA on each of the HR2x, and a CCK. The HR34 can do the same as a CCK, but installers are told to use a CCK [and get paid to install it].

Here's a setup from another user http://www.dbstalk.c...ad.php?t=208197
A.K.A VOS

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#402 OFFLINE   Sunner73

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 09:22 PM

Hi VOS,

It been over 2 months since I've got a HR34 and 2-HR24s and all has been good but......

In the last 2 weeks I've noticed multiple shows recorded on one HR that when I select to watch there is no "play, keep, delete, etc" menu on the left side of the screen.

There is no problem watching virtually every other show recorded on that HR but only occasionally some shows, case in point on 8/20 I had recorded Alphas and Warehouse 13 and both displayed the same issue. I obviously could watch them from the TV directly connected to that HR though. It also make no difference as to when I try as I've gotten the same issue every time (day) I've tried to watch (on another HR).

I've attached an image so you can see what I'm referring to.

Very strange, has anybody any idea of what's causing this?

Attached Files


Directv customer since 2001
1 HR34-50" Projection TV
2 HR24-27" HDTV/Monitor & 27" CRT
2 DSR704 DTivo's (no locals)-32" CRTs
1 DSR7000 DTivo-27" CRT
Only the 2 DSR704's MRV'ed

Upgraded to AU9 Slimline w/SWM16 w/uS575 stacker feeding a LAL20a amp supplying single coax to each of the 3 DSR's w/dual destackers.

#403 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 10:24 PM

Hi VOS,

It been over 2 months since I've got a HR34 and 2-HR24s and all has been good but......

In the last 2 weeks I've noticed multiple shows recorded on one HR that when I select to watch there is no "play, keep, delete, etc" menu on the left side of the screen.

There is no problem watching virtually every other show recorded on that HR but only occasionally some shows, case in point on 8/20 I had recorded Alphas and Warehouse 13 and both displayed the same issue. I obviously could watch them from the TV directly connected to that HR though. It also make no difference as to when I try as I've gotten the same issue every time (day) I've tried to watch (on another HR).

I've attached an image so you can see what I'm referring to.

Very strange, has anybody any idea of what's causing this?

Looks like the GUI didn't completely load.
Rebooting should clear this.
You can also skip that screen completely by pressing "play" from the playlist when the show is highlighted and then delete it using the red button from the playlist when you're done.
A.K.A VOS

#404 OFFLINE   Sunner73

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 10:42 PM

Looks like the GUI didn't completely load.
Rebooting should clear this.
You can also skip that screen completely by pressing "play" from the playlist when the show is highlighted and then delete it using the red button from the playlist when you're done.


I hadn't even tried pressing the "play" button. (It works alright!)

I've rebooted the HR34 so I will see if the issue returns.

Thanks VOS
Directv customer since 2001
1 HR34-50" Projection TV
2 HR24-27" HDTV/Monitor & 27" CRT
2 DSR704 DTivo's (no locals)-32" CRTs
1 DSR7000 DTivo-27" CRT
Only the 2 DSR704's MRV'ed

Upgraded to AU9 Slimline w/SWM16 w/uS575 stacker feeding a LAL20a amp supplying single coax to each of the 3 DSR's w/dual destackers.

#405 OFFLINE   davemartella

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 02:14 PM

VOS - just looking at these threads and seeing how often you provide the answer shows me what an incredible resource you are. Thanks for being so willing to share your knowledge.

I have a question regarding DirecTV's Whole Home service. My setup is as follows:
HR-34
HR-24
HR-22
HR-25.

The HR-34 was installed today. He added a SWM-16 and two blocks. One block as the HR-34 and the HR-22, the other has the HR-24 and HR-25. Content on the HR-24 can only be seen on it and the HR-25. Content on the HR-22 can only be seen on the HR-34. Content on the HR-34 can only be seen on the HR-22.

Installer says there is no way to bridge the two blocks. He says each block will only support 8 tuners, and since I have 10 tuners, there is no way for all content from the three DVR's to show up in one place.

Aside from my frustration with DirecTV for not sharing this info with me when I upgraded to the HR-34 (and with myself for not researching it first) it seems like there ought to be a way to accomplish this. Instead of Whole Home I now have two Partial Home systems - not quite the plan.

Any ideas?

Thank you very much,

Dave

#406 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 02:20 PM

VOS - just looking at these threads and seeing how often you provide the answer shows me what an incredible resource you are. Thanks for being so willing to share your knowledge.

I have a question regarding DirecTV's Whole Home service. My setup is as follows:
HR-34
HR-24
HR-22
HR-25.

The HR-34 was installed today. He added a SWM-16 and two blocks. One block as the HR-34 and the HR-22, the other has the HR-24 and HR-25. Content on the HR-24 can only be seen on it and the HR-25. Content on the HR-22 can only be seen on the HR-34. Content on the HR-34 can only be seen on the HR-22.

Installer says there is no way to bridge the two blocks. He says each block will only support 8 tuners, and since I have 10 tuners, there is no way for all content from the three DVR's to show up in one place.

Aside from my frustration with DirecTV for not sharing this info with me when I upgraded to the HR-34 (and with myself for not researching it first) it seems like there ought to be a way to accomplish this. Instead of Whole Home I now have two Partial Home systems - not quite the plan.

Any ideas?

Thank you very much,

Dave

There isn't an HR25, so maybe this is a typo for a H25.

"If it's installed correctly" they all will share, or why would it be called "Whole Home"?
The SWiM-16 has a crossover for the coax networking, so that isn't the problem.

Check the IP addresses on the receivers. Do they all match, or are some 169.xxx, while others are [say] 192.xxx?

How do they connect to your home network?
A.K.A VOS

#407 OFFLINE   Stuart Sweet

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 02:20 PM

Dave,

while we're waiting for VOS' wisdom,

the installer is full of hooey. With a properly installed SWM16 you should be able to share programming across all 16 tuners.

By "block" should I presume you mean splitter?

Posted Image

Something like that, perhaps?

If you are not seeing programming across the entire home, something is afoul. It seems to me that photos of the area around your SWM and the splitters being used would be a good start to helping diagnose.

For what it's worth, I speak from some experience, as I have had an HR34 with an HR24 on the same leg and two additional HR24s on the other leg and everything saw everything.

The only thing it's worth pointing out is that at the moment, I don't think that the current national release software for HR24 will let you share programming to the HR34. That is changing however.

Nonetheless all three HR2x DVRs should see each other and share programming.
Opinions expressed by me are my own and do not necessarily reflect
those of DBSTalk.com, DIRECTV, DISH, The Signal Group, or any other company.

#408 OFFLINE   davemartella

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 05:43 PM

There isn't an HR25, so maybe this is a typo for a H25.

"If it's installed correctly" they all will share, or why would it be called "Whole Home"?
The SWiM-16 has a crossover for the coax networking, so that isn't the problem.

Check the IP addresses on the receivers. Do they all match, or are some 169.xxx, while others are [say] 192.xxx?

How do they connect to your home network?

VOS,

You're right (of course) H25.

Installer was absolutely positive there was no way to bridge the two 8-port splitters (thanks Stuart!). Once the HR-34 was installed it functioned exactly as he described - partial home, not Whole Home. I called DirecTV and while the agent was extremely apologetic she said, "you just have too many tuners on your system and there is nothing we can do about it."

A couple of hours after the installer left the system apparently rebooted - I'm guessing a new software load? Once it was back to full operation ALL DVR content was available on ALL the boxes. Don't know if this is coincidence or divine intervention, but that seems to be working properly.

Still can't connect to the internet, but that is probably because I had to tear my network out (we painted) and am slowly getting it back together. I'm going to have to find the manual for my powerline stuff and make sure they are working properly before I panic.

Thank you for your assistance (you too Stuart Sweet!). You guys are terrific.

Dave

#409 OFFLINE   davemartella

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 05:44 PM

Dave,

while we're waiting for VOS' wisdom,

the installer is full of hooey. With a properly installed SWM16 you should be able to share programming across all 16 tuners.

By "block" should I presume you mean splitter?

Posted Image

Something like that, perhaps?

If you are not seeing programming across the entire home, something is afoul. It seems to me that photos of the area around your SWM and the splitters being used would be a good start to helping diagnose.

For what it's worth, I speak from some experience, as I have had an HR34 with an HR24 on the same leg and two additional HR24s on the other leg and everything saw everything.

The only thing it's worth pointing out is that at the moment, I don't think that the current national release software for HR24 will let you share programming to the HR34. That is changing however.

Nonetheless all three HR2x DVRs should see each other and share programming.

Thanks Stuart! You and VOS were right on target - evidently the installer really didn't know what he was talking about.

Dave

#410 OFFLINE   Jnelson

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 07:58 AM

Very useful info. Tech tried to install cck, but I demurred.

#411 OFFLINE   F1 Fan

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 12:21 PM

VOS

I have a "wireless" type question for you.

I spend a lot of time out on the deck and use Directv2PC but would prefer one of my H25s out here (that and the tv are so light I can carry them in and out and not worry about leaving them out).

My problem is all my cabling is in the attic and last year I had it spray foam insulated (I can recommend it!). So now I dont want to compromise the attic and run a cable outside.

Eventually I will run a cable from somewhere outside, but I am also redoing the back deck so wont know the eventual position.

Any ideas how I can run an H25 (or C31 as not adverse to those) over wireless? I am an IT guy so the equipment and hookup is not a problem, just not sure what to hook up.

Can they use a WCCK? or a wifi adapter? Anything? Or am I just going to have to run a cable?
HR34-700, HR24-100, 3x H25-100s, MRV on DECA, SWM16

#412 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 12:32 PM

VOS

I have a "wireless" type question for you.

I spend a lot of time out on the deck and use Directv2PC but would prefer one of my H25s out here (that and the tv are so light I can carry them in and out and not worry about leaving them out).

My problem is all my cabling is in the attic and last year I had it spray foam insulated (I can recommend it!). So now I dont want to compromise the attic and run a cable outside.

Eventually I will run a cable from somewhere outside, but I am also redoing the back deck so wont know the eventual position.

Any ideas how I can run an H25 (or C31 as not adverse to those) over wireless? I am an IT guy so the equipment and hookup is not a problem, just not sure what to hook up.

Can they use a WCCK? or a wifi adapter? Anything? Or am I just going to have to run a cable?

The H25, is going to need a coax connection to your SWiM. I don't know of any other option, since it has a tuner and an access card.
The C31 seems like the only option. Some [or at least one] has it working with a WCCK, which then connects to the HR34.
A.K.A VOS

#413 OFFLINE   F1 Fan

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 01:21 PM

Thanks

I will run a cable with some flexibility for the reconfiguration later.
HR34-700, HR24-100, 3x H25-100s, MRV on DECA, SWM16

#414 OFFLINE   MrLatte

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 03:31 PM

Wait, what? The HR34 can't currently view shows on other HR22s via MRV or Whole Home? Is that true or does it only apply to HR24s?

#415 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 03:46 PM

Wait, what? The HR34 can't currently view shows on other HR22s via MRV or Whole Home? Is that true or does it only apply to HR24s?

There is a question about the current software for all the HR2x that may not let the HR34 view their recordings with MRV. It will be addressed in another release.
A.K.A VOS

#416 OFFLINE   MrLatte

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 07:23 PM

There is a question about the current software for all the HR2x that may not let the HR34 view their recordings with MRV. It will be addressed in another release.


OK, so I know it SHOULD work but now I'm wondering how much of a problem this is currently. I have an HR34 coming in 2 days and I was planning on making it my main viewing machine with a bunch of programming still on my bedroom unit and my (soon to be) 2 basement HR22s. I'd hate to do all that switching around only to have a blank DVR staring at me!

#417 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 07:38 PM

OK, so I know it SHOULD work but now I'm wondering how much of a problem this is currently. I have an HR34 coming in 2 days and I was planning on making it my main viewing machine with a bunch of programming still on my bedroom unit and my (soon to be) 2 basement HR22s. I'd hate to do all that switching around only to have a blank DVR staring at me!

Not sure if it's "should work", or will be "it will work again".
I'm not on the current national release, so as such, I've gotten the MRV to HR34 working "again".
I wish I could give you a time for you to know that "by X" you'll have it working again, but I can only say "soon".
If it becomes a big deal, a work-a-round might be to use the HR22 as it will play recordings from the 34.
A.K.A VOS

#418 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 07:39 PM

I did a bit of cleanup, so if your post is gone, that's why and it was asked/answered and no longer useful to this thread.
A.K.A VOS

#419 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 02:12 PM

Question... Which would you do...

You want to hook up two swim 16s to the same dish. You will not, nor do you want to in any way bridge the two deca networks together.

Would you:

a). Run them in parallel with lines from dish being split, one line each to each swm16 input? (if so, what splitters would you use?)

B). Cascade them, one off the other?

Any advantage or disadvantage to either way over the other?

I ask because I thought I read they where designed to cascade, but DIRECTV says run them in parallel. I assume parallel because then in theory if one dies, the other is unaffected maybe?

#420 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 05:22 PM

Question... Which would you do...

You want to hook up two swim 16s to the same dish. You will not, nor do you want to in any way bridge the two deca networks together.

Would you:

a). Run them in parallel with lines from dish being split, one line each to each swm16 input? (if so, what splitters would you use?)

B). Cascade them, one off the other?

Any advantage or disadvantage to either way over the other?

I ask because I thought I read they where designed to cascade, but DIRECTV says run them in parallel. I assume parallel because then in theory if one dies, the other is unaffected maybe?

A) Skywalker 2-way splitters would be my choice to run them in parallel.
If there is a downside it's the loss of the splitters, but it may not have much affect, since rainfade for the most part is in the LNB, when the signals drop so much that the LO loses lock.

B) Cascading can also be done, but you do need to use an amp between them, because the legacy ports have significant loss. Sonora makes a 13-14 dB amp that has been used and works well.
A.K.A VOS

#421 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 05:37 PM

A) Skywalker 2-way splitters would be my choice to run them in parallel.
If there is a downside it's the loss of the splitters, but it may not have much affect, since rainfade for the most part is in the LNB, when the signals drop so much that the LO loses lock.

B) Cascading can also be done, but you do need to use an amp between them, because the legacy ports have significant loss. Sonora makes a 13-14 dB amp that has been used and works well.


The legacy has a lot more loss than a splitter even on a couple feet of cable? Interesting... Thanks!

#422 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 05:44 PM

The legacy has a lot more loss than a splitter even on a couple feet of cable? Interesting... Thanks!

A 2-way may have 5 dB, where the legacy has a good 10+ dB.
A.K.A VOS

#423 OFFLINE   TexasJames

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 10:13 AM

First ... stumbled across this thread doing a search and read it from start to finish. Awesome info! Thanks VOS for sharing so much knowledge.

Now for my question. :-) But let me start with the background:

I just converted/upgraded from multiswitch wiring and the old-style ethernet Whole Home (MRV) to SWiM and WDCCK/DECA. During the install my last HR20-700 was "replaced" with a HR24, so I ended up with 3 HR24s on the SWiM with a WDCCK connected to one of those, providing Whole Home and internet access over coax. I also had coax dropped in a 4th location for future use (thought I might add a HD receiver-only there).

DirecTV didn't want the HR20 back (and never even took it off the account :-( ), so after some pondering I decide to use it in that open location. I hooked it up and after reconfiguring the antenna setup and a few other changes it worked great. Except, of course, it wasn't participating in Whole Home and had no internet access. Called DirecTV and that's when I learned about DECA built-in vs. not built-in. They promptly sent me a white DECA for the HR20 and were supposed to send a band stop filter (BSF) as well. Only the BSF never showed. I called again and got conflicting info this time. Basically I was told the BSF is only needed when the CCK is on that same HR-DVR. Since my CCK was elsewhere, BSF not needed.

Reading this thread I see some mentions of the BSF:

Yes, any H/HR2x model receivers that don't have DECA built into them need to have a BSF in place if they are on a SWM system where DECA is being used and they don't have their own DECA.


... BSF are needed with DECA since each one outputs about 0 dBm and this causes problems with tuners and the SWiM.


So now I'm leaning to the conclusion that a BSF is needed in my setup. But I'm not sure. :-( So my question is, do I need a BSF on the HR20-700, along with the DECA?

Also, I haven't connected the DECA yet as I'm trying to make sure I do it right the first time. But now I'm wondering if I should disconnect the HR20 until I do that. Am I harming the receiver by not blocking the internet signals?

-TJ

HR24-100 and HR44-700 w/ (2) C41-500 clients (full setup)


#424 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 10:41 AM

So now I'm leaning to the conclusion that a BSF is needed in my setup. But I'm not sure. :-( So my question is, do I need a BSF on the HR20-700, along with the DECA?

Also, I haven't connected the DECA yet as I'm trying to make sure I do it right the first time. But now I'm wondering if I should disconnect the HR20 until I do that. Am I harming the receiver by not blocking the internet signals?

You have an HR20-700, so you don't need a BSF "if" you connect the white DECA to the SAT #1.

The whole idea is:
The DECA signal has a much higher level than all the other signals. This needs to be blocked from the receiver's SAT input, as it can cause distortion.
Using a DECA [or having one internally] does this. If the receiver doesn't have a DECA, but is connected to a SWiM with the coax networking, "then" it needs a filter to block it.

The HR20-100 is the only exception as it has a strange way to connect a DECA because it needs to connect to the SAT #2 for DC power.
A.K.A VOS

#425 OFFLINE   TexasJames

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 12:55 PM

You have an HR20-700, so you don't need a BSF "if" you connect the white DECA to the SAT #1.

The whole idea is:
The DECA signal has a much higher level than all the other signals. This needs to be blocked from the receiver's SAT input, as it can cause distortion.
Using a DECA [or having one internally] does this. If the receiver doesn't have a DECA, but is connected to a SWiM with the coax networking, "then" it needs a filter to block it.

The HR20-100 is the only exception as it has a strange way to connect a DECA because it needs to connect to the SAT #2 for DC power.


Thanks VOS for the quick reply and concise info.

One update. :-( I opened the DECA box to do the setup and see that I actually received a "black DECA", not a "white DECA". It is a * DCA2SR0-18 * - is the any difference in how I use that?

(Is the black DECA really the same as the wired CCK - thought I read that somewhere?)

-TJ

HR24-100 and HR44-700 w/ (2) C41-500 clients (full setup)





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