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The official "ask veryoldschool" thread


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#521 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 10:22 PM

Oh....

1 more thing. I did switch the ethernet cable behind the HR22 from the bottom to the top port.

When this problem started it was in the bottom port. I didn't change it until today. Both ports allow internet and network connection.

Should it be in the bottom port?

I think it should be the top port, but for me it's been a few years.

Are they marked 1 & 2?
if so you should be using #1
A.K.A VOS

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#522 OFFLINE   Vinny

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 10:30 PM

OK..so then I'm in the right port....its the top and its labeled 1.

Goodnight, VOS, and thanks again.

HR34-700(0x00805)|Networked: Yes via Deca hardwired to Actiontec MI424WR (FiOS)| OTA: No | DOD Enabled: Yes |Mediashare: TVersity |
HDTV: Panasonic Plasma TH-50PZ85U connected via Monster HDMI| Home Theater: Onkyo TX-LR552 connected via coax cable. Whole Home: Yes

HR20-700 (0x07EB)
|Networked: Yes via Deca| OTA: No | HDTV: Hitachi Plasma P42H401 connected via HDMI. Whole Home: Yes

AU9 Slimline | SWM|


#523 OFFLINE   JeffDomogala

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 05:31 PM

VOS, first of all thanks for your contribution to this community. I have learned an awful lot in a short period of time particularly about SWM, DECA and MRV because of your input.

There appears to be two different SWiM setups:
1 - Ka/Ku Dish with single SWM connection to green label splitter to devices
2 - Ka/Ku Dish with four connections to SWM-8 or SWM-16 to devices or splitters then devices

If I have four devices that need to be connected to the dish, I can either use #1 with a four way green label splitter or I can use #2 utilizing a SWM-16 and use both SWM outputs with two way splitters. Assuming all else equal (cable lengths for runs to receivers), does #2 have an advantage over #1 because of the single splitter off of each SWM output? Or is there loss within the SWM-16 that makes this almost a wash?

Please correct me if I'm off base regarding anything I attempted to explain.

Second, I am going to be converting from a 3 DirecTivo setup to an HR-34 plus a pair of either C-31s or HR-24s. So I currently have a round dish (30" Winegard) with a dual LNB and multiswitch feeding the DirecTivos. I know that the dish has to change to one of the above two options. I am hung up on available tuners like others have been in this forum. In order not to chew up tuners in the HR-34, I would simply want the HR-24s for nothing more than the pause-rewind capability for live TV, which I don't think I can get with the C-31 unless I use a tuner on the HR-34. It hasn't been really clear to me if there is pause-rewind live TV capability on all of the C-31s connected to the HR-34.

Finally, If I go with either the C-31s or HR-24's, is it enough to just connect my home network to the HR-34 to get internet connectivity to everything?

#524 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 05:55 PM

VOS, first of all thanks for your contribution to this community. I have learned an awful lot in a short period of time particularly about SWM, DECA and MRV because of your input.

There appears to be two different SWiM setups:
1 - Ka/Ku Dish with single SWM connection to green label splitter to devices
2 - Ka/Ku Dish with four connections to SWM-8 or SWM-16 to devices or splitters then devices

If I have four devices that need to be connected to the dish, I can either use #1 with a four way green label splitter or I can use #2 utilizing a SWM-16 and use both SWM outputs with two way splitters. Assuming all else equal (cable lengths for runs to receivers), does #2 have an advantage over #1 because of the single splitter off of each SWM output? Or is there loss within the SWM-16 that makes this almost a wash?

Please correct me if I'm off base regarding anything I attempted to explain.

Second, I am going to be converting from a 3 DirecTivo setup to an HR-34 plus a pair of either C-31s or HR-24s. So I currently have a round dish (30" Winegard) with a dual LNB and multiswitch feeding the DirecTivos. I know that the dish has to change to one of the above two options. I am hung up on available tuners like others have been in this forum. In order not to chew up tuners in the HR-34, I would simply want the HR-24s for nothing more than the pause-rewind capability for live TV, which I don't think I can get with the C-31 unless I use a tuner on the HR-34. It hasn't been really clear to me if there is pause-rewind live TV capability on all of the C-31s connected to the HR-34.

Finally, If I go with either the C-31s or HR-24's, is it enough to just connect my home network to the HR-34 to get internet connectivity to everything?

OK let's start with the SWiMLNB verses the SWM8. They're the same, and the "old" SWM8 came out first for commercial use, followed by the SWiMLNB [cheaper] for home use.
1 coax carries 1 guide data channel [common to all receivers] and 8 channels for "tuners".
A non DVR has one tuner, while a DVR has two.
The C31 has "none", as it's merely a slave/client to the the server/HMC/Genie/HR34, which has 5 tuners.

The C31 has full DVR function since it is a client to the HR34, and for that matter can't function without it.

One SWiMLNB will feed: 1 HR34, 1 DVR, which leaves one channel free for a non DVR receiver. This same coax, could have another 3 C31s since they don't have tuners.

The SWiM-16 is based on two SWM8s in one package and why they have two coax outputs. Each of the SWiM "sections" are bridged together for the DECA/coax networking signal to pass between them.

The DECA/coax networking "merely" shares the same coax with the SWiM, but has no interaction with it.

"Splitters" are not switches like with the older systems, so you select them to have enough places to connect the coax your need, but never exceed 8 tuners.
"Sometimes" you need to split and then split again to fit the receivers and their locations. This can be done, but needs some attention to how as each time you split the power gets equally divided and if done wrong, one receiver may not have enough signal, while the other have more than they need.
A.K.A VOS

#525 OFFLINE   JeffDomogala

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 12:37 PM

Thanks for your response. I probably put too much stuff in one post, so can we take this one item at a time?

Boiling down the SWM part of my original post... If I have four devices (regardless of their tuner count), is there any signal strength advantage by using a SWM-16 with a green label 2 way splitter on each SWM output verses using a SWM-8 with a 4 port splitter on its output? Reading some of your other posts regarding loss, the 4 way splitter is like a two tier stack of 2 way splitters to get 4 outputs, so there are a total of two losses from the intput to each output. The SWM-16, has (as you say) two independent SWM blocks in it (and of course the bridge between the two for DECA), so is there one level less of loss now because I have to use only a single two way splitter on each output, and hence only one loss from each input to output?

#526 OFFLINE   JeffDomogala

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 01:04 PM

Regarding the HR-24 verses the C-31. I get that the C-31 is a slave of the HR-34. My concern is that for live TV it is also using one of the 5 tuners of the HR-34, and because it is using the HR-34, it hopefully has the ability to do the 90 minute rewind during live TV viewing. I need that clarified, and I need to know if this is the case for all C-31s slaved to the HR-34.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the standalone receivers (H24) cannot pause and rewind live TV, correct? Can they play recordings from the HR-34 with the ability to pause / rewind / fast forward during playback?

#527 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 01:11 PM

Thanks for your response. I probably put too much stuff in one post, so can we take this one item at a time?

Boiling down the SWM part of my original post... If I have four devices (regardless of their tuner count), is there any signal strength advantage by using a SWM-16 with a green label 2 way splitter on each SWM output verses using a SWM-8 with a 4 port splitter on its output? Reading some of your other posts regarding loss, the 4 way splitter is like a two tier stack of 2 way splitters to get 4 outputs, so there are a total of two losses from the intput to each output. The SWM-16, has (as you say) two independent SWM blocks in it (and of course the bridge between the two for DECA), so is there one level less of loss now because I have to use only a single two way splitter on each output, and hence only one loss from each input to output?

The SWiM output is about -30 dBm, though I've measured -26 dBm.
The combined splitter and coax loss needs to not exceed around 30 dB, or the receiver will get close to its minimum levels.
The SWiM has an AGC so the output stays fairly constant.

There isn't any advantage if a receiver is getting [say] -40 dBm, verses -50 dBm.
A.K.A VOS

#528 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 01:19 PM

Regarding the HR-24 verses the C-31. I get that the C-31 is a slave of the HR-34. My concern is that for live TV it is also using one of the 5 tuners of the HR-34, and because it is using the HR-34, it hopefully has the ability to do the 90 minute rewind during live TV viewing. I need that clarified, and I need to know if this is the case for all C-31s slaved to the HR-34.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the standalone receivers (H24) cannot pause and rewind live TV, correct? Can they play recordings from the HR-34 with the ability to pause / rewind / fast forward during playback?


The C31 will have a live buffer, so it can pause, rewind, etc. "live TV". The length is 90 mins, but only after you've been tuned to the channel that long. this will be true for up to three C31s, as that's all that can be connected at one time. If you try to use a forth, it will ask which one of the three you want to disconnect.

The H24/25 can play recordings and pause or use trickplay on them, but can't pause live TV because of no buffering.
These can also setup a recording on the remote DVR too, so some use this to pause "live TV" by turning it into a recording.
A.K.A VOS

#529 OFFLINE   WhiteMask

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 01:41 PM

VOS -

I used your multi switch as suggested. I attached 4 antenna leads to one side. I ran the 2 coax cable from each existing deck from the ther side of the switch. I added a fifth lead to the new DVR and changed it to a one tuner deck as you specified. I was able to connect the new DVR (HR20-100) to my network and then to whole home using front panel on the deck with my wife yelling where I was on the screen as the new deck is in another room on a shelf above the deck connected in the great room. All works. Problem remaining is the fact that the remote from the master bdrm that I want to run the newly added Hr20 changes the other deck instead as was intended when we watched the great room deck in the bedroom. Can I program that remote to only change the new deck?

Jim
Planned Obsolescence . . humans, too??

#530 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 02:58 PM

VOS -

I used your multi switch as suggested. I attached 4 antenna leads to one side. I ran the 2 coax cable from each existing deck from the ther side of the switch. I added a fifth lead to the new DVR and changed it to a one tuner deck as you specified. I was able to connect the new DVR (HR20-100) to my network and then to whole home using front panel on the deck with my wife yelling where I was on the screen as the new deck is in another room on a shelf above the deck connected in the great room. All works. Problem remaining is the fact that the remote from the master bdrm that I want to run the newly added Hr20 changes the other deck instead as was intended when we watched the great room deck in the bedroom. Can I program that remote to only change the new deck?

Jim

The remotes can be "coded", but the easiest way is to simply change to RF if the RC remote has the function. "Normally" there is a R in the model like: RC64R [verses RC64]
If you need to stay with IR, then there are eight different codes, which the advanced remote setup should help you with.
A.K.A VOS

#531 OFFLINE   Riverpilot

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 03:15 PM

If I may, a bit of a problem here...

Mr. VoS :)

I have a hr34 (been a customer since January of this year) that on occasion will lose the ability to tune to certain channels, like 304 (tv land). I get the old searching for signal 771. It only happens on this receiver. My other receivers work fine. If I run the "view sat strength" for tuner 2 (which I'll presume is my hr34?) and let it show all the signals, then it starts showing the channel.

Just curious if there is something I can try to fix this, or perhaps just call directv and let them handle it? It does this at what seems random. Different times of the day, different temps, weather conditions, etc...

It's not a huge deal, just one of those annoying quirks. lol :)

Thanks for any info, suggestions :)

#532 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 04:01 PM

If I may, a bit of a problem here...

Mr. VoS :)

I have a hr34 (been a customer since January of this year) that on occasion will lose the ability to tune to certain channels, like 304 (tv land). I get the old searching for signal 771. It only happens on this receiver. My other receivers work fine. If I run the "view sat strength" for tuner 2 (which I'll presume is my hr34?) and let it show all the signals, then it starts showing the channel.

Just curious if there is something I can try to fix this, or perhaps just call directv and let them handle it? It does this at what seems random. Different times of the day, different temps, weather conditions, etc...

It's not a huge deal, just one of those annoying quirks. lol :)

Thanks for any info, suggestions :)

While this could be many things, what seems to be the most common, or at least the more common problem with the HR34 is the coax not being terminated correctly. Open ports on the splitter or unused coax connected to the splitter. Both of these will cause a reflected signal which can degrade the forward signal to the receiver.
So the first thing is to check this and make sure everything is snug and has a termination or a receiver connected to it.
A.K.A VOS

#533 OFFLINE   Riverpilot

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 08:01 PM

While this could be many things, what seems to be the most common, or at least the more common problem with the HR34 is the coax not being terminated correctly. Open ports on the splitter or unused coax connected to the splitter. Both of these will cause a reflected signal which can degrade the forward signal to the receiver.
So the first thing is to check this and make sure everything is snug and has a termination or a receiver connected to it.


I do have an unused coax, was the wire from the splitter to the decca. I bypassed that and am using the port on the hr34 instead. I'll slap a terminator on that tomorrow and double check the connections as well.

Thanks much :)

#534 OFFLINE   WhiteMask

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 12:53 PM

VOS -

Very interesting on the remotes. I tried 3 different remotes using the standard DTV protocols. Then did them again with 2 different DTV tech folks. Each time with them I identified my unit as an HR20-100. They both said it has an internal RF receiver. Both decided it was the solution to send me a new remote!! After a frustrating day, at the conclusion of which I wrote to you, I decided to look on the net for the specs on this unit. Turns out the this HR20-100 DOES NOT have an internal RF. The HR20-700 DOES. They didn't bother to look I suppose.

Armed with this knowledge, I cut a 7" piece off the end of an RG6 cable, stripped it to the center wire back to within an inch from the F connector. I then screwed it on the female F connector on the back of the HR20-100 for RF antenna. Voila! Now the remote programmed 1st time to RF.

Done deal and maybe a learning experience for the uninitiated. Thanks again for your help with the splitter and how to set new box to one tuner - works perfectly. Merry Christmas!:D
Planned Obsolescence . . humans, too??

#535 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 01:03 PM

VOS -

Very interesting on the remotes. I tried 3 different remotes using the standard DTV protocols. Then did them again with 2 different DTV tech folks. Each time with them I identified my unit as an HR20-100. They both said it has an internal RF receiver. Both decided it was the solution to send me a new remote!! After a frustrating day, at the conclusion of which I wrote to you, I decided to look on the net for the specs on this unit. Turns out the this HR20-100 DOES NOT have an internal RF. The HR20-700 DOES. They didn't bother to look I suppose.

Armed with this knowledge, I cut a 7" piece off the end of an RG6 cable, stripped it to the center wire back to within an inch from the F connector. I then screwed it on the female F connector on the back of the HR20-100 for RF antenna. Voila! Now the remote programmed 1st time to RF.

Done deal and maybe a learning experience for the uninitiated. Thanks again for your help with the splitter and how to set new box to one tuner - works perfectly. Merry Christmas!:D

Yes only the HR20-100 "requires" an external antenna.
The H20s also need an antenna, since the HR20-700 they've all had the antenna internal "except for" the HR20-100.

Now if you order a RF remote "kit" it comes with the antenna too.
I was recently sent a RC65RBX and it still came with the antenna.
A.K.A VOS

#536 OFFLINE   WhiteMask

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 02:19 PM

VOS,

My doorbell just rang. It was my wife handing me a Fed EX from the porch. Wow, they overnighted it!! It is an RC65RBX. It contained NO antenna. I will place it in a time capsule to be opened in 100 years unless you can tell me it has special powers and I should replace one of my RC64R or RC64 or 64r's with it??

:rolleyes:
Planned Obsolescence . . humans, too??

#537 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 02:31 PM

VOS,

My doorbell just rang. It was my wife handing me a Fed EX from the porch. Wow, they overnighted it!! It is an RC65RBX. It contained NO antenna. I will place it in a time capsule to be opened in 100 years unless you can tell me it has special powers and I should replace one of my RC64R or RC64 or 64r's with it??

:rolleyes:

RC65RBK


http://www.solidsign...ivers-(rc65rbk)
A.K.A VOS

#538 OFFLINE   WhiteMask

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 02:57 PM

Thanks Jimmie & VOS -

No antenna, must be a refurb. I've memorized the keyboard so backlighting only means MORE BATTERIES !!!

Best,

WhiteMask
Planned Obsolescence . . humans, too??

#539 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 03:12 PM

Thanks Jimmie & VOS -

No antenna, must be a refurb. I've memorized the keyboard so backlighting only means MORE BATTERIES !!!

Best,

WhiteMask

The backlight has an "on/off" switch. ;)
A.K.A VOS

#540 ONLINE   litzdog911

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 01:56 AM

Hi VOS! Quick question for you ....

I'm setting up a DirecTV installation for a friend that's moving into a small house with an existing Slimline5 (non-SWM) dish. The dish currently only has two coax cables connected to the wiring box outside the garage. Fortunately each room is home run to that wiring box outside the garage. I will upgrade the LNB to SWM using one of the existing satellite cables to the wiring box. My friend only wants to have one HD DVR (Living Room) and one HD Receiver (Bedroom), ideally with WHDVR service.

Does this diagram look good? Thanks!

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HD DVRs: HR34-700; HR24-500; (2) HR20-700 + WD eSATA 1TB drive/Antec MX1 case; HR21-700; HR21-200 w/AM21
Receivers: H25-500 HD Receiver; H21-100 HD Receiver
Mobile Devices: Nomad

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