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The official "ask veryoldschool" thread


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#601 ONLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 12:15 PM

Had DTV change dish in my guest house to HD from SD. I ordered SWM equipment. Got home (my wife dealt with installer) to discover that the HR22 had both coax leads connected and there were BBCs attached. Can't be a SWM setup can it?

If it's working with BBCs, then it can't be a SWiM.
A.K.A VOS

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#602 OFFLINE   Jnelson

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 12:45 PM

That's what I thought. Thanks.

#603 OFFLINE   Wolfmanjohn

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 04:44 PM

VOS, I would like to go with a 34/44 Genie and 3 clients. Can I do that with a SL5-SWM LNB connected to the "power to SWiM" port of the PI, then connecting the "signal to IRD" PI port to a SWS4 splitter, running 1 line to the Genie and 1 line to each of the clients? Can it really be that simple/efficient? Is there any reason to get larger splitters or a SWM-8 involved here? Am I understanding things correctly, or do I need to educate myself more on SWiM/whole home theory and operation? Thanks in advance for your information, suggestions, advice, and thoughts.

I'm just dealing with signal distribution in this scenario. I'll ethernet the ATT DSL to the Genie and add a AM21 after the installer splits, if one gets involved.

Edited by Wolfmanjohn, 08 March 2013 - 05:12 PM.
clarification

"You gonna love it to death, baby!"

#604 ONLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 06:03 PM

VOS, I would like to go with a 34/44 Genie and 3 clients. Can I do that with a SL5-SWM LNB connected to the "power to SWiM" port of the PI, then connecting the "signal to IRD" PI port to a SWS4 splitter, running 1 line to the Genie and 1 line to each of the clients? Can it really be that simple/efficient? Is there any reason to get larger splitters or a SWM-8 involved here? Am I understanding things correctly, or do I need to educate myself more on SWiM/whole home theory and operation? Thanks in advance for your information, suggestions, advice, and thoughts.

I'm just dealing with signal distribution in this scenario. I'll ethernet the ATT DSL to the Genie and add a AM21 after the installer splits, if one gets involved.

Yes, it really is "that simple".
A.K.A VOS

#605 OFFLINE   Wolfmanjohn

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 06:49 PM

Thanks for your reply, VOS; it is greatly appreciated! Time to go have some fun!
"You gonna love it to death, baby!"

#606 OFFLINE   hiline

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 11:12 AM

I luv this thread. I learn something new every time I come over here :)

#607 OFFLINE   Wolfmanjohn

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 11:46 AM

VOS, I would like to go with a 34/44 Genie and 3 clients. Can I do that with a SL5-SWM LNB connected to the "power to SWiM" port of the PI, then connecting the "signal to IRD" PI port to a SWS4 splitter, running 1 line to the Genie and 1 line to each of the clients? Can it really be that simple/efficient? Is there any reason to get larger splitters or a SWM-8 involved here? Am I understanding things correctly, or do I need to educate myself more on SWiM/whole home theory and operation? Thanks in advance for your information, suggestions, advice, and thoughts.

I'm just dealing with signal distribution in this scenario. I'll ethernet the ATT DSL to the Genie and add a AM21 after the installer splits, if one gets involved.


VOS, if I replace 1 of the clients with a HR23-700 (which I already have), is the above LNB/PI/SWS4 scenario still feasible? I count 7 tuners, but am I counting correctly? Also guessing DECA (no power supply, no B-band or BSF) will be necessary on that 23. Thanks again!
"You gonna love it to death, baby!"

#608 ONLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 11:50 AM

VOS, if I replace 1 of the clients with a HR23-700 (which I already have), is the above LNB/PI/SWS4 scenario still feasible? I count 7 tuners, but am I counting correctly? Also guessing DECA (no power supply, no B-band or BSF) will be necessary on that 23. Thanks again!

This was one of my setups:

http://www.dbstalk.c...=1&d=1319570397

Which seems to be what you're looking to do.
A.K.A VOS

#609 OFFLINE   Bill Broderick

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 12:36 PM

Last week, in anticipation of a Genie install, I replaced my WB68 with a SWM-16. After the install, while doing the Dish Setup, I was getting a failure on 103 LNB, both odd and even, on all DVR's. However, after continuing, the setup completed and I got a picture on all channels.

Throughout the week, I checked the signal strength of all sats a few times. I have strong signals on 101, 110 & 119 (90-100), mid-80's to low 90's on 99© and low 70's to 90 on 103 (ca) and low 80's-low 90's on 103 (cb).

Today, while fixing a cable I didn't properly secure last week, I decided to swap the two sets of cables between the dish and the SWM with one another. So, the cables that were going into 99/101 on the SWM-16 are now going into 103/110/119 and vice versa. I figured that this would tell me if I had a cable problem.

When I reran the setup, the only difference is that I only failed on 103 even transponders. However, today the sky is completely clear. So, I'm assuming that is accounting for the improved signal on 103 odd (the lowest signal strength on the odd is 80, so I think that barely passed). On 103 (cb) all of the even transponders are in the 70's and the odd transponders are between 80 & 90.

Other than needing a new LNB (which, I'm not doing myself), are there other things that I should try checking?

Attached are photos of the various signal strength screens.

Attached Thumbnails

  • SWM Setup.jpg
  • 101.jpg
  • 110.jpg
  • 119.jpg
  • 99 (s).jpg
  • 103 (ca).jpg
  • 103 (cb).jpg


#610 OFFLINE   Wolfmanjohn

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 12:45 PM

This was one of my setups:

http://www.dbstalk.c...=1&d=1319570397

Which seems to be what you're looking to do.


That's close enough for me to work with; thanks again!
"You gonna love it to death, baby!"

#611 ONLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 02:31 PM

Last week, in anticipation of a Genie install, I replaced my WB68 with a SWM-16. After the install, while doing the Dish Setup, I was getting a failure on 103 LNB, both odd and even, on all DVR's. However, after continuing, the setup completed and I got a picture on all channels.

Throughout the week, I checked the signal strength of all sats a few times. I have strong signals on 101, 110 & 119 (90-100), mid-80's to low 90's on 99© and low 70's to 90 on 103 (ca) and low 80's-low 90's on 103 (cb).

Today, while fixing a cable I didn't properly secure last week, I decided to swap the two sets of cables between the dish and the SWM with one another. So, the cables that were going into 99/101 on the SWM-16 are now going into 103/110/119 and vice versa. I figured that this would tell me if I had a cable problem.

When I reran the setup, the only difference is that I only failed on 103 even transponders. However, today the sky is completely clear. So, I'm assuming that is accounting for the improved signal on 103 odd (the lowest signal strength on the odd is 80, so I think that barely passed). On 103 (cb) all of the even transponders are in the 70's and the odd transponders are between 80 & 90.

Other than needing a new LNB (which, I'm not doing myself), are there other things that I should try checking?

Attached are photos of the various signal strength screens.

I know the red x comes from a TP on one of the 103 SATs not having enough SNR/CNR. This could be as little as 0.5 dB low.
The signal screens don't really show/point to which.
I've seen the same and used a AIM to find the SAT/TP causing it.
This might be from the dish not being optimized for the 103 SAT.
Being on the west coast, for me it's the 99c SAT that is the hardest, so I dither the dish for 99 to be its best and don't need to worry about the others.
A.K.A VOS

#612 OFFLINE   Bill Broderick

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 03:13 PM

OK. Thanks. Since it works (it just seems to be more susceptible to rain fade), I'll wait until I order the Genie (waiting on the HR-44 before doing so) and ask the installer to take a look at the dish, while I install the receiver.

#613 ONLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 03:17 PM

OK. Thanks. Since it works (it just seems to be more susceptible to rain fade), I'll wait until I order the Genie (waiting on the HR-44 before doing so) and ask the installer to take a look at the dish, while I install the receiver.

"Yep" have him to a verification at the dish.
DirecTV has raised the bar for passing this test in hopes to improve the customer's experience.
Rainfade may always be with us, but if the alignment is the best it can be, it limits the amount.
A.K.A VOS

#614 OFFLINE   sgibson

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 06:45 AM

For each 2-way split is costs about the same 5 dB as 50' of coax [at the high frequency end].

Maybe a break down of splitters would help:

http://www.dbstalk.c...=1&d=1326136326

As you can see a 4-way output has gone through two 2-ways, and a 8-way has gone through three.
Each time you go through one, it has ~ 5 dB of loss.
SWiM to receiver can only have 30 dB of loss, so the less splitter loss, the longer coax you can have.
The less loss total, the less rainfade you will have, "but" the rain can get heavy enough to end up with no signal too.

Hello VOS,

Wish I found this info before I changed my 2-wire system to 1-wire.
(Soon to go whole house and Internet)
My install is an 8-SWM, PI29 (with 18" Quad RG6 connection) and 6' Quad RG6 from PI29 to 8-way splitter.
I kept getting lots of "771" errors on HR21, HR22. 2-HR24s were okay(No decas used on HR21,22). After several red button resets, all HRs are ok. Now that it's working, I found the info your "Official VOS Thread". (I know, I shoulda look here first.) Should I leave as is (No rain to check fade issues yet) or move PI29 further from SWM? Should I change 8-way splitter to 4-way? (8-way came with the SWM and PI29 I bought new in boxes from the "B"ig Auction place.) I do plan on adding at least one more device to the 8-way splitter in the very near future.

Special thanks for all the invaluable info/tips/help you and others (Lamont Cranston) here have provided!

Regards,
sgibson

#615 ONLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 08:35 AM

Hello VOS,

Wish I found this info before I changed my 2-wire system to 1-wire.
(Soon to go whole house and Internet)
My install is an 8-SWM, PI29 (with 18" Quad RG6 connection) and 6' Quad RG6 from PI29 to 8-way splitter.
I kept getting lots of "771" errors on HR21, HR22. 2-HR24s were okay(No decas used on HR21,22). After several red button resets, all HRs are ok. Now that it's working, I found the info your "Official VOS Thread". (I know, I shoulda look here first.) Should I leave as is (No rain to check fade issues yet) or move PI29 further from SWM? Should I change 8-way splitter to 4-way? (8-way came with the SWM and PI29 I bought new in boxes from the "B"ig Auction place.) I do plan on adding at least one more device to the 8-way splitter in the very near future.

Special thanks for all the invaluable info/tips/help you and others (Lamont Cranston) here have provided!

Regards,
sgibson

There can be problems when the PI is too close to the SWM8. DirecTV suggest having 15' of coax between them.
Another option is to connect the PI to the SWM8 through the #3 legacy port.
You have 4 DVRs, so that's the limit of the SWM8. I'm not sure what device you're planning to add, but it can't have a tuner and work.
If your using the DECA in the 24s, the 21 & 22 should have bandstop filters.
As for swapping the 8-way splitter for a 4-way, if the coax lengths are less than 140', you won't see much [any] difference. If you're close to the 140', then changing would give you some "reserve" [headroom].

Some later testing showed the SWiM to receiver loss has little affect on rainfade
A.K.A VOS

#616 OFFLINE   sgibson

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 10:37 AM

There can be problems when the PI is too close to the SWM8. DirecTV suggest having 15' of coax between them.
Another option is to connect the PI to the SWM8 through the #3 legacy port.
You have 4 DVRs, so that's the limit of the SWM8. I'm not sure what device you're planning to add, but it can't have a tuner and work.
If your using the DECA in the 24s, the 21 & 22 should have bandstop filters.
As for swapping the 8-way splitter for a 4-way, if the coax lengths are less than 140', you won't see much [any] difference. If you're close to the 140', then changing would give you some "reserve" [headroom].

Some later testing showed the SWiM to receiver loss has little affect on rainfade




Mornin' VOS,
Thanks for the quick reply.

My runs are:
From SL3PIG-Z Dish to SWM-8 is 4 x (25ft outside, 20ft inside) 45ft.
SWM-8 to PI29 = 1 x 1.5ft.
PI29 to 8-way splitter = 1 x 6ft.
From SWM-8 are from 15ft. to max of 30ft.
Total longest run = 82.5 ft.

I want to do whole house and VOD. (I currently have Cat-5 at all but one location)

"...There can be problems when the PI is too close to the SWM8. DirecTV suggest having 15' of coax between them.
Another option is to connect the PI to the SWM8 through the #3 legacy port."
Which option do you think is preferable?
I can do either one.

"...You have 4 DVRs, so that's the limit of the SWM8. I'm not sure what device you're planning to add,..."
No more DRVs, I'm planning on Deca Broadband Adapter (DECA1MR01) and/or?
DirecTV CCK-Cinema Connection Kit.


"...If your using the DECA in the 24s, the 21 & 22 should have bandstop filters."
Hmm...I was gonna use Deca Broadband Adapter (DECA1MR01)on the HR21,22

Your thoughts?
sgibson

#617 ONLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 10:45 AM

Mornin' VOS,
Thanks for the quick reply.

My runs are:
From SL3PIG-Z Dish to SWM-8 is 4 x (25ft outside, 20ft inside) 45ft.
SWM-8 to PI29 = 1 x 1.5ft.
PI29 to 8-way splitter = 1 x 6ft.
From SWM-8 are from 15ft. to max of 30ft.
Total longest run = 82.5 ft.

I want to do whole house and VOD.

"...There can be problems when the PI is too close to the SWM8. DirecTV suggest having 15' of coax between them.
Another option is to connect the PI to the SWM8 through the #3 legacy port."
Which option do you think is preferable?
I can do either one.

"...You have 4 DVRs, so that's the limit of the SWM8. I'm not sure what device you're planning to add,..."
No more DRVs, I'm planning on Deca Broadband Adapter (DECA1MR01) and/or?
DirecTV CCK-Cinema Connection Kit.


"...If your using the DECA in the 24s, the 21 & 22 should have bandstop filters."
Hmm...I was gonna use Deca Broadband Adapter (DECA1MR01)on the HR21,22

Your thoughts?
sgibson

I'd move the PI over to the #3 legacy port. The distance then doesn't matter and you won't be adding coax.
The DECA1MR01 isn't really the BB DECA/CCK, but can be used as one with a PI.
This is a BB DECA/CCK: http://www.solidsign...kit-(decabb1r0)
But so it this:
http://www.solidsign...ply-(decabb1r0)
With the lengths you have, there really isn't a problem keeping the 8-way.
A.K.A VOS

#618 OFFLINE   sgibson

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 03:36 PM

I'd move the PI over to the #3 legacy port. The distance then doesn't matter and you won't be adding coax.
The DECA1MR01 isn't really the BB DECA/CCK, but can be used as one with a PI.
This is a BB DECA/CCK: http://www.solidsign...kit-(decabb1r0)
But so it this:
http://www.solidsign...ply-(decabb1r0)
With the lengths you have, there really isn't a problem keeping the 8-way.


It's me again VOS,

I'm confused about the PI29>SWM-8>8-way Splitter???
Looking over the wiring diagrams to the SolidSignal Links you provided, shows
I have to re-route PI>SWM>Splitter connections to do BB Decka/CCK

Here's my current setup...what's wrong with this picture?


Thanks for your help,sgibson

Attached Thumbnails

  • SWM8_01.jpg


#619 ONLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 03:53 PM

It's me again VOS,

I'm confused about the PI29>SWM-8>8-way Splitter???
Looking over the wiring diagrams to the SolidSignal Links you provided, shows
I have to re-route PI>SWM>Splitter connections to do BB Decka/CCK

Here's my current setup...what's wrong with this picture?


Thanks for your help,sgibson

I'm a bit :confused: too, as your picture looks fairly simple.

The coax from the PI [to splitter] needs to be over to the SWM#1 and the coax between the SWM8 and PI needs to move to the Legacy #3.
You seems to have plenty of coax to do this.
Your BB DECA can be connected to the output of the splitter.
A.K.A VOS

#620 OFFLINE   mjm76

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 01:23 AM

I have WHDVR with DirecTV and I have the HR34-700. I am confused about something.

I thought I was connected to the internet via the HR34-700 but now I am not so sure.

What advantage is there to have your HR34-700 box connected to the internet provide?

I thought it was for VOD, but I have been used that and it appeared to work, so what good is an internet connection to the boxes and what is it used for.

any information would be appreciated. I thought I was connected but today my son came home and his XBOX 360 would not connect to our network and the problem I believe is the Wireless N video game adapter was not set up properly with our new Uverse gateway. I have the exact same network adapter connected to the HR34-700 and I have not reconfigured it since I have gotten the new Uverse gateway. I assumed it was working OK.
I have not noticed any problems with my WHDVR and in fact no set top receivers have been dropping off the network.




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