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The official "ask veryoldschool" thread


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#701 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 10:04 AM

Thanks,  I'll give it a go.  So I can connect it to a free port on the swm-4?  I don't need another split?

Any unused port is fine.


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#702 OFFLINE   DaveC56

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 11:35 AM

I can't say what the installer would leave, but I would suggest changing over from your ethernet to coax [DECA] networking at this time. The installer will need to add DECAs to the 21s & 23s and let him install the CCK. He/she will get paid [more] for doing this and you'll have a supported network. There is a thread here where someone had better performance with DECA over their ethernet.

After the installer leaves, if you feel you must have ethernet, you can always reconfigure and you'll have the parts should you want to go back.

The Genie can run tests of the coax network that can't be done with ethernet.

Powering the SWiM-16 with the PWR connector doesn't have a min length of coax.

 

What splitters will be used will vary. An 8-way on each output is very common.

It really only make a difference if you have very long coax runs to the receivers.

If each receiver passes the IV test before the installer leaves, you're good.

The SWiM system is slightly different than your legacy WB616 since the SWiM has an AGC that the legacy doesn't.

This means you may not see "improved signal strength" on a clear day, but should on rainy days.

The RC71 doesn't control more than one receiver like the RC65 does.

 

Thanks for your feedback.  Can you elaborate on the tests the Genie performs on the coax vice ethernet network?, any thing specific to the "IV Test" other than what I think it means literally? 

 

Is AGC (automatic gain control)??

 

Many thanks,

Dave



#703 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 12:42 PM

Thanks for your feedback.  Can you elaborate on the tests the Genie performs on the coax vice ethernet network?, any thing specific to the "IV Test" other than what I think it means literally? 

 

Is AGC (automatic gain control)??

 

Many thanks,

Dave

Receivers with the DECA built in check the networking condition during a system test and will report an error if there is reduced bandwidth between two DECA nodes.

There is another diagnostic menu that you can use to see what the loss is between the receiver and other nodes, along with a Phy Mesh rate between nodes.

AGC is automatic gain control

The Installation Verification test is fairly stringent and measures/checks a number of things.

Power level and CNR from each SAT are the important ones,


A.K.A VOS

#704 OFFLINE   DaveC56

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 02:04 PM

Receivers with the DECA built in check the networking condition during a system test and will report an error if there is reduced bandwidth between two DECA nodes.

There is another diagnostic menu that you can use to see what the loss is between the receiver and other nodes, along with a Phy Mesh rate between nodes.

AGC is automatic gain control

The Installation Verification test is fairly stringent and measures/checks a number of things.

Power level and CNR from each SAT are the important ones,

 

Again, many thanks for your DirecTV expertise and answering my questions.

 

Dave



#705 OFFLINE   jpx5

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 08:22 AM

Recently converted from ethernet to deca/swim and added an hr34-700. since the install the hr34 and an  hr24-500 intermittanly disconnect and reconnect. I changed the ip address's to be static however the problem continues. Any thoughts would be welcome.


Jeff
Sat - AU9-S

SWM16 broadbandDECA

Network Linksys WRT54GS
HR34-700, HR24-500, 2 HR24-100's
WHDVR


#706 OFFLINE   DaveC56

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 08:35 AM

Thanks for your feedback.  Can you elaborate on the tests the Genie performs on the coax vice ethernet network?, any thing specific to the "IV Test" other than what I think it means literally? 

 

Is AGC (automatic gain control)??

 

Many thanks,

Dave

 

Receivers with the DECA built in check the networking condition during a system test and will report an error if there is reduced bandwidth between two DECA nodes.

There is another diagnostic menu that you can use to see what the loss is between the receiver and other nodes, along with a Phy Mesh rate between nodes.

AGC is automatic gain control

The Installation Verification test is fairly stringent and measures/checks a number of things.

Power level and CNR from each SAT are the important ones,

 

 

VOS:  After reading your comments on DECA and educating myself on DECA versus fast ethernet networks, I'm still sitting on the fence which way is best.  In my home, we have FE (CAT 5e) wired to all DirecTV DVR locations. We have very little LAN (intra-net) traffic on our home network since my wife and I are "empty nesters" and recently retired.  Are both DECA and FE supported by DirecTV or only DECA?  On our current setup, 4 HD DVRs, we do have MRV turned on and don't have any performance issues access/playing/streaming playlists from other HD DVR locations with our home.  It's only slow when using the 30 second skip.  We are looking forward to the Genie install next Thursday, and will continue to use the other 4 HD DVRs.  Any final thoughts?

 

Thanks,

Dave C.


Edited by DaveC56, 03 October 2013 - 09:09 AM.


#707 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 10:11 AM

VOS:  After reading your comments on DECA and educating myself on DECA versus fast ethernet networks, I'm still sitting on the fence which way is best.  In my home, we have FE (CAT 5e) wired to all DirecTV DVR locations. We have very little LAN (intra-net) traffic on our home network since my wife and I are "empty nesters" and recently retired.  Are both DECA and FE supported by DirecTV or only DECA?  On our current setup, 4 HD DVRs, we do have MRV turned on and don't have any performance issues access/playing/streaming playlists from other HD DVR locations with our home.  It's only slow when using the 30 second skip.  We are looking forward to the Genie install next Thursday, and will continue to use the other 4 HD DVRs.  Any final thoughts?

 

Thanks,

Dave C.

Only DECA [coax networking] is supported by DirecTV.

If you're happy with etherent, you can continue to used it.

Should you have a problem, being unsupported, it'll be up to you to find a resolution.

Ethernet will be no better than DECA, and DECA may just come down to being the right tool for the job, and the support to keep it working.

I started with etherent before there was DECA and had cables running all over.

I moved to DECA "years ago" and haven't looked back.

I've moved a couple of times and haven't needed to use ethernet so it's nice to not have as many cables running around.

 

I'd still suggest having DECA installed and give it a try.

Should you want to go back to etherent, you can, and simply box up the DECA hardware for a time when you might want to use it.


A.K.A VOS

#708 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 10:14 AM

Recently converted from ethernet to deca/swim and added an hr34-700. since the install the hr34 and an  hr24-500 intermittanly disconnect and reconnect. I changed the ip address's to be static however the problem continues. Any thoughts would be welcome.

It would help to get more information:

How do you connect to the router?

Are you static IPs outside the DHCP reservation table?


A.K.A VOS

#709 OFFLINE   DaveC56

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 01:46 PM

Only DECA [coax networking] is supported by DirecTV.

If you're happy with etherent, you can continue to used it.

Should you have a problem, being unsupported, it'll be up to you to find a resolution.

Ethernet will be no better than DECA, and DECA may just come down to being the right tool for the job, and the support to keep it working.

I started with etherent before there was DECA and had cables running all over.

I moved to DECA "years ago" and haven't looked back.

I've moved a couple of times and haven't needed to use ethernet so it's nice to not have as many cables running around.

 

I'd still suggest having DECA installed and give it a try.

Should you want to go back to etherent, you can, and simply box up the DECA hardware for a time when you might want to use it.

 

OK.  Again, I really appreciate your insight and advice.  I have a lot of boxes in my A/V rack and although the HR34/HR44 has DECA built in, my other HD DVRs (two HR21s and two HR23s) do not.  I was leaning towards FE for the network, and with your input I'm considering DECA.  I have a followup question ... if I use DECA, can I still have the FE Cat 5e cables connected to the Genie and all HR DVRs even though not utilized in case I want to revert to FE vice DECA?  Since I currently don't have DECA, I wasn't sure how the system setup occurs.

 

When the Genie is installed next week, I'll begin a new two year commitment with DirecTV.  With my older HR21 & HR23s, am I eligible for HR24 HD DVR equipment upgrades?

 

Dave 



#710 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 02:07 PM

OK.  Again, I really appreciate your insight and advice.  I have a lot of boxes in my A/V rack and although the HR34/HR44 has DECA built in, my other HD DVRs (two HR21s and two HR23s) do not.  I was leaning towards FE for the network, and with your input I'm considering DECA.  I have a followup question ... if I use DECA, can I still have the FE Cat 5e cables connected to the Genie and all HR DVRs even though not utilized in case I want to revert to FE vice DECA?  Since I currently don't have DECA, I wasn't sure how the system setup occurs.

 

When the Genie is installed next week, I'll begin a new two year commitment with DirecTV.  With my older HR21 & HR23s, am I eligible for HR24 HD DVR equipment upgrades?

 

Dave 

You can't have both coax networking and ethernet connected at the same time.

While the HR21/23 do have two ethernet ports, there is a primary and secondary, which means they aren't the same and you can have problems using the secondary. [been there and have had them].

I saw this today and it might be worth a read: http://forums.solids...Coax-Networking

 

You could connect ethernet to the Genie and still use the DECA, but using a CCK might be a better choice when you have other receivers as when the Genie reboots, if you're using it to connect to your home network, this connection is lost during the rebooting.

 

As for your eligibility for upgrades :shrug: You'll need to check with DirecTV.   


A.K.A VOS

#711 OFFLINE   DaveC56

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 02:45 PM

You can't have both coax networking and ethernet connected at the same time.

While the HR21/23 do have two ethernet ports, there is a primary and secondary, which means they aren't the same and you can have problems using the secondary. [been there and have had them].

I saw this today and it might be worth a read: http://forums.solids...Coax-Networking

 

You could connect ethernet to the Genie and still use the DECA, but using a CCK might be a better choice when you have other receivers as when the Genie reboots, if you're using it to connect to your home network, this connection is lost during the rebooting.

 

As for your eligibility for upgrades :shrug: You'll need to check with DirecTV.   

 

Thanks so much.  I assume the top ethernet port on the HR21/HR23s is the primary port, correct?  I'll give the solid signal forum a read.

 

Dave



#712 OFFLINE   jpx5

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 02:55 PM

It would help to get more information:

How do you connect to the router?

Are you static IPs outside the DHCP reservation table?

wired connected home adapter and yes outside the dhcp range. When displaying system info page the ip's show up as static.


Jeff
Sat - AU9-S

SWM16 broadbandDECA

Network Linksys WRT54GS
HR34-700, HR24-500, 2 HR24-100's
WHDVR


#713 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 05:44 PM

wired connected home adapter and yes outside the dhcp range. When displaying system info page the ip's show up as static.

You might move the ethernet over to your Genie to see if there is a problem with the wired CCK.

Only Genies can have the ethernet and DECA active.


A.K.A VOS

#714 OFFLINE   jpx5

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 08:40 PM

You might move the ethernet over to your Genie to see if there is a problem with the wired CCK.

Only Genies can have the ethernet and DECA active.

thanks, I will try that


Jeff
Sat - AU9-S

SWM16 broadbandDECA

Network Linksys WRT54GS
HR34-700, HR24-500, 2 HR24-100's
WHDVR


#715 OFFLINE   DaveC56

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 07:54 AM

Receivers with the DECA built in check the networking condition during a system test and will report an error if there is reduced bandwidth between two DECA nodes.

There is another diagnostic menu that you can use to see what the loss is between the receiver and other nodes, along with a Phy Mesh rate between nodes.

AGC is automatic gain control

The Installation Verification test is fairly stringent and measures/checks a number of things.

Power level and CNR from each SAT are the important ones,

 

One last question:  Do the actual DECA adapter for the HR21s & HR23s required a DC power source for the adapter or is the power supplied via the power inserter for the SWM16 switch?  I realize that the Genie unit will have the DECA built in.

 

Thanks,

Dave



#716 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 02:06 PM

One last question:  Do the actual DECA adapter for the HR21s & HR23s required a DC power source for the adapter or is the power supplied via the power inserter for the SWM16 switch?  I realize that the Genie unit will have the DECA built in.

 

Thanks,

Dave

The DECA units for the HR21/23 are connected to the SAT #1 input and are powered from the receiver.


A.K.A VOS

#717 OFFLINE   DaveC56

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 02:37 PM

The DECA units for the HR21/23 are connected to the SAT #1 input and are powered from the receiver.

 

OK and thanks!

 

Dave



#718 OFFLINE   TXD16

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 10:41 PM

New (and very specific) topic within the "Ask VOS" thread:

 

In an effort to avoid/eliminate diplexed OTA and DECA signal "overlap" issues, if one were to use a BSF in place of a "reversed" terminated diplexer when adding diplexed OTA to a Genie (either an HR44 or an HR34), and, thus, actually blocking the outgoing DECA signal with the BSF, rather than (mostly) dissipating it with the terminated diplexer, do we know exactly what deleterious affect that has on the internal DECA of the Genie units, either long-term, short-term, or both?

 

I understand that with the use of the BSF the DECA signal is reflected directly back into the unit, but are there any actual known/reported/documented issues with doing so?


Edited by TXD16, 07 October 2013 - 10:46 PM.

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#719 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 02:37 AM

I understand that with the use of the BSF the DECA signal is reflected directly back into the unit, but are there any actual known/reported/documented issues with doing so?

There isn't any known/reported/documented issues, though there are very few doing this.

The DECA output is in the range of 0+ dBm and the DECA receiver sensitivity is < -45 dBm, so "to me" it isn't a good idea to reflect the signal back without some attenuation.

YMMV


A.K.A VOS

#720 OFFLINE   DaveC56

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 11:54 AM

Receivers with the DECA built in check the networking condition during a system test and will report an error if there is reduced bandwidth between two DECA nodes.

There is another diagnostic menu that you can use to see what the loss is between the receiver and other nodes, along with a Phy Mesh rate between nodes.

AGC is automatic gain control

The Installation Verification test is fairly stringent and measures/checks a number of things.

Power level and CNR from each SAT are the important ones,

 

Hi VOS:  The Genie install took place last Thursday.  We were in the middle of a heavy rain storm (reminents of Tropical Storm Karen), and fortunately it was just lightly raining when the tech arrived mid-afternoon.  He installed the Genie plus the DECA adapters on my HR21s and HR23s.  I was fortunately because he only had 3 adapters left, and offered me a free upgrade on one of my HR21s to an HR24 (which has the DECA built in, as you know).  My first impression is that the DECA network is more responsive than connecting directly to my intra-net LAN structure when streaming HD program from one HD DVR to the Genie, HR21/23/24.  As you pointed out, its probably due to DECA having less overhead than ethernet, plus less error checking on the packet transfer.  Since my HR21, HR23s and HR24 are both client and HD DVRs, the tech did not bring nor install the wireless CCK.   So far, I am very happy with the upgrade.  The tech is returning next week to tweek the alignment on our Satelllite dish, since the 99 and 103 have significant signal levels less than the 101 satellite.  During Hurricane Sandy last year, the 99 & 103 signal strengths were reduced after the storm.  Anyway, the tech will check it out next week. 

 

One last little tidbit, I find the Genie 720p/1080i output via HDMI color does not seem (to my eye) as "crisp" as my HR23/HR21 video.  The HR24 has no difference in PQ as the HR21/HR23.  I might just be seeing things, but I wanted to share that little fact with you.

 

I appreciate all the advice you gave me -- I am very happy with the upgrade.

 

Dave






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