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The official "ask veryoldschool" thread


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#721 OFFLINE   jeepwrang3

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 02:22 PM

OK VOS, I'm in a pickle with setting up a CCK to my existing setup. 

Have a single LNB into a 8way SWIM splitter.  Only goes out to 3 receivers. 
HR-20/700(whole home white unit)

H21(whole home white unit)

HR34/700

 

SWM is located where the HR34 is setup. 

 

I've tried hooking the CCK into all 3 receivers(I know the H21 isnt a dvr, but just to get a connection to a different Router Network), all to no Avail.  I'm encountering issues when trying to enter the security key.  My router is an ASUS RT N56U unit, dual band.  2.4ghz is a secured WPA network.  The 5ghz band is open network, no key, but the CCK cant find that network?.  The other part of the house has a Trendnet cheapo router WEP encrypted.  Each time i enter my password, I get the Unable to verify error. 

 

The oddity is that I tried setting up the HR20 to the CCK, tied into the Whole Home coax, and it worked initially.  I didnt have to enter any password, but it worked for roughly an hour before we lost power thanks to the most recent winter storm.  The following day when power was restored I was getting errors saying that the HR20 has 775 Cabling issues and was unable to find the SWM(As well as losing my DTV signal all together on that HR20 unit), despite when hittting the dash the  SWIM was detected. 

 

What am I missing here?  I've moved the CCK back ot the HR34, done a hard reset on that unit, reset the modem/Router's, reset the SWM, and all receivers with the whole home connection.  Removed my firewalls on the routers, and yet, the unit is still unable to identify the security Key. 

Any help would be MUCH appreciated. 


Long time Lurker, first time poster :nono2:

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#722 OFFLINE   peds48

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 02:57 PM

The most common mistake I have sen folks doing is interring a "blank" space when entering the password.  When someone is entering the password, the continue button is on the right bottom of the screen, so is intuitive to press RIGHT to get there, obviously it does not get you there, so the user press DOWN.  What you have just done is entered a space and sometimes this is enough to throw the password for a loop


Here’s to the crazy ones.
The misfits. The rebels.
The the troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.

The ones who see things different.
They’re not fond of rules, and they have no respect for the status quo.


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#723 OFFLINE   jeepwrang3

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 03:06 PM

The most common mistake I have sen folks doing is interring a "blank" space when entering the password.  When someone is entering the password, the continue button is on the right bottom of the screen, so is intuitive to press RIGHT to get there, obviously it does not get you there, so the user press DOWN.  What you have just done is entered a space and sometimes this is enough to throw the password for a loop

Thanks Peds.  I did that the first time around attempting to setup key.  Unfortunately it didn't make a difference for me.  I should also say, the WPA password doesnt have any spaces or special symbols. 

 

Also, I've attempted to use the WPS function, enabled it  via the router settings, and hit the WPS button for 5 seconds on the CCK, but it doesnt seem to synch or find the CCK,

 

I tried to just enter random wrong security keys and they fail almost immediately, but when i enter my WPA key, it hangs for nearly 2 minutes.  As if its trying to figure out the algorithm, but it times out? 

 

It's setup as a WPA Personal with AES encryption. 


Edited by jeepwrang3, 16 February 2014 - 06:03 PM.

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#724 OFFLINE   jeepwrang3

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 08:19 PM

I was able to plug in the CCKW into my router.  Upon connecting, it connected to the internet, and started downloading.  I went into the DECA settings, it's still not able to find the open network ASUS_5G, from its name, but it identified it when doing a site survey.  THought i had manually set it up to save the wireless, but once i disconnected and attempted to connect via the receiver option, it was unable to find the network.  I then hooked the DECA to my laptop, turned off my wireless, and went into the settings again.  This time I gave up on the 5ghz network, instead just went into the 2.4ghz main network, selected WPA2 Personal passkey which the CCCW had correctly identifed, entered my security key and disconnected.  It wouldnt connect to the receiver immediately so i went and did the setup again(DId this reset what I had set in the DECA?)  Sorry for the books, I'm at a total loss at this point.  I would have been better served just running cat 5 thru the walls for the time invested


Edited by jeepwrang3, 17 February 2014 - 07:57 AM.

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#725 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 24 February 2014 - 04:32 AM

I was able to plug in the CCKW into my router.  Upon connecting, it connected to the internet, and started downloading.  I went into the DECA settings, it's still not able to find the open network ASUS_5G, from its name, but it identified it when doing a site survey.  THought i had manually set it up to save the wireless, but once i disconnected and attempted to connect via the receiver option, it was unable to find the network.  I then hooked the DECA to my laptop, turned off my wireless, and went into the settings again.  This time I gave up on the 5ghz network, instead just went into the 2.4ghz main network, selected WPA2 Personal passkey which the CCCW had correctly identifed, entered my security key and disconnected.  It wouldnt connect to the receiver immediately so i went and did the setup again(DId this reset what I had set in the DECA?)  Sorry for the books, I'm at a total loss at this point.  I would have been better served just running cat 5 thru the walls for the time invested

It sounds like you had some luck by going into the GUI in the WCCK, but didn't connecting it with the receiver.
I'd log back into the GUI, set it back up "and then" connected it back to the coax and on the receiver reset the network defaults.
Then "simply" use the "connect now" option. If the wireless settings were saved why in the GUI, they shouldn't need to be redone through the receiver.


A.K.A VOS

#726 OFFLINE   jeepwrang3

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Posted 24 February 2014 - 12:51 PM

It sounds like you had some luck by going into the GUI in the WCCK, but didn't connecting it with the receiver.
I'd log back into the GUI, set it back up "and then" connected it back to the coax and on the receiver reset the network defaults.
Then "simply" use the "connect now" option. If the wireless settings were saved why in the GUI, they shouldn't need to be redone through the receiver.

Gave that a whirl, still no go.  Just gave up and hardwired directly from my router to the CCK, I guess rendering the Wireless part useless.  Simple enough of a fix, and after 4 days of it driving me bonkers, running the cable took an hour. Thanks


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#727 OFFLINE   mrjacobrussell

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 02:37 PM

Hi I was hoping to find this information on DBS talk but havnt been able to come up with the correct search string. :)

 

I am looking for what symbols can be entered on a hr44 ro hddvr when doing a wpa password with the DASH key.


HR44-C41-HR24
Rackable NM46X, 2 x Dual-Core AMD Opteron 2.4ghz 16GB Ram

 

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#728 OFFLINE   jagrim

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 01:09 PM

Hey VOS- I got a couple of questions

First, I am not seeing any issues except the error when I run a system test.

The error that I get is a network distribution error. I've gone into the coax network test (guide + right arrow) on my 34-700. And gives me numbers that I believe are high ( in the node test)

The CCK and the HR24-500 are both -50 & -51. All of the remainder are between -43 & -47 with the exception of one that is at -23.

The one at -23 is an HR24-500. All of the STB's show the network distribution error with the exception of an HR22-100 (phy of -43). All other receivers are HR24-500's plus one 34.

Within the last month or two, DTV rewired my hookup by moving the SWM16 from the attic to outside.

Previous Setup:
Four wires from dish to SWM16 (in attic) - about 50'
3' cables from SWM16 outputs to (2) 4-way splitters

New Setup:
Four wires from dish to SWM16 (under patio) - about 6'
(2) cables from SWM16 to splitters in attic - about 80'

The PI for the SWM16 is in the same place for both installation types.

All splitters are DTV Green label.

Though I don't have a problem now, I am concerned with the higher numbers. Since the highest numbers are at the CCK and adjacent HR24-500, is it possible that the CCK is starting to fail. Why does one receiver have such a low number and the corresponding receivers on that splitter have higher numbers? If I used the 34 as a bridge, should I see an improvement in the numbers? Why does the HR22-100 not give the error? It is the only receiver with an external DECA.









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#729 OFFLINE   peds48

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 01:19 PM

Previous Setup:
Four wires from dish to SWM16 (in attic) - about 50'
3' cables from SWM16 outputs to (2) 4-way splitters

New Setup:
Four wires from dish to SWM16 (under patio) - about 6'
(2) cables from SWM16 to splitters in attic - about 80'


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The key is hat we need to know entire cable lengths, from the SWM16 switch to spitters (provided) and from the splitters to the receivers (missing)

 

The HR22 can't test what it does not have and as such coax tests can only be done on receivers with built in DECA

 

Also posting the receivers that you have helps a lot as well


Here’s to the crazy ones.
The misfits. The rebels.
The the troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.

The ones who see things different.
They’re not fond of rules, and they have no respect for the status quo.


Think Differently 

#730 OFFLINE   jagrim

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 04:33 PM

The key is hat we need to know entire cable lengths, from the SWM16 switch to spitters (provided) and from the splitters to the receivers (missing)

The HR22 can't test what it does not have and as such coax tests can only be done on receivers with built in DECA

Also posting the receivers that you have helps a lot as well


Distances to splitter:
LR HR34-700: 45'
MB HR24-500: 45'
ST HR24-500: 45' (CCK W/green label splitter)(-50 & -51 on test)
UP: HR24-500: 30'
HA HR24-500: 25' (-23 reading on coax test)
AS. HR22-100: 20'

The rest are between -43 & -47 on coax test. All node numbers ran from the HR34



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#731 OFFLINE   peds48

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 06:05 PM

I would move the SWM16 closer (the attic?) and have the runs between splitters closer.  

 

It would appear to me that the HR34 and HA HR24-500: 25' (-23 reading on coax test)  are on the same splitter and the rest are on the other 4 way.  and with 160 feet of wire between them, reason why the coax signal is low 

 

Are you sing a wired or wireless CCK?


Here’s to the crazy ones.
The misfits. The rebels.
The the troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.

The ones who see things different.
They’re not fond of rules, and they have no respect for the status quo.


Think Differently 

#732 OFFLINE   jagrim

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 06:48 PM

I would move the SWM16 closer (the attic?) and have the runs between splitters closer.

It would appear to me that the HR34 and HA HR24-500: 25' (-23 reading on coax test) are on the same splitter and the rest are on the other 4 way. and with 160 feet of wire between them, reason why the coax signal is low

Are you sing a wired or wireless CCK?


This is a wired CCK.

I'll have to verify on which splitter the “good reading” HR 24-500 but I think the -50 is on that splitter. ( l'll verify when I have a chance).

I've been wanting a reason to swap back to the original setup so I'll do that sometimes this week and see if the numbers improve.

I've got a spare 16 so it will



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#733 OFFLINE   peds48

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 07:02 PM

My preferred set up would be as follows and this is assuming that you can ditch the CCK and connect the Genie directly to ethernet to your router.

 

SWM16 output 1 to a 2 way splitter/ connect the HR34 plus the HDDVR that has the longest run here

SWM16 output 2 to a 4 way splitter/ connect the other 4 HDDVRs here 

Connect is possible the power supply to the dedicated power connector on the SWM16


Here’s to the crazy ones.
The misfits. The rebels.
The the troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.

The ones who see things different.
They’re not fond of rules, and they have no respect for the status quo.


Think Differently 

#734 OFFLINE   Bill Broderick

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 08:34 PM

My preferred set up would be as follows and this is assuming that you can ditch the CCK and connect the Genie directly to ethernet to your router.

 

SWM16 output 1 to a 2 way splitter/ connect the HR34 plus the HDDVR that has the longest run here

SWM16 output 2 to a 4 way splitter/ connect the other 4 HDDVRs here 

Connect is possible the power supply to the dedicated power connector on the SWM16

 

That surprises me.  I thought that you prefer the wired CCK over connecting Ethernet to the Genie.  Based on comments from both you and VOS, I just disconnected the ethernet from my Genie and reconnected a wired CCK in my guest bedroom this afternoon.



#735 OFFLINE   peds48

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 09:12 PM

That surprises me.  I thought that you prefer the wired CCK over connecting Ethernet to the Genie.  

depends what hat I am waring.  If I am installing, I prefer the CCK as I get paid for it but do not get paid for ethernet, silly DirecTV.  Also depends on the quantity of receivers connecting to the SWM network.  in this case the poster has 6 receivers which can fit in a 2 way and a 4 way.  Had the poster had 7 receivers, then 2 4 ways is the least you would to connect them and them it would not make a difference whether you have a CCK or not.  in this case the omission of the CCK is merely to save a splitter port and thus decreasing signal loss.


Here’s to the crazy ones.
The misfits. The rebels.
The the troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.

The ones who see things different.
They’re not fond of rules, and they have no respect for the status quo.


Think Differently 

#736 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 01:48 PM

Late to this party as I was moving.

 

"The numbers" don't match.

I've got a calculator that I've put together with "nominal" losses and 50' off 4-ways should be in the range of -15s for nodes on the same 4-way to 30s for "cross SWiM" nodes.

Anything over -45 should degrade the Phy Mesh numbers and 220 or less will trigger the system test error.

 

With the Phy levels listed, and the lengths posted, either the lengths aren't correct or the coax is much lossier than normal.

 

Peds48:

Recent tests of splitter DECA losses have shown they're now -10 dB for all splitters.

Older splitters used to have a 6 dB difference between a 2-way and 8-way, but the newer all have the same -10 dB.


A.K.A VOS

#737 OFFLINE   jagrim

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 08:00 PM

VOS,

The lengths are as close as I can get them since most are hidden. What concerns me is this just started. I run a system test of at least once a week and sometimes more. This is the first time that the network distribution error has shown up.

I can remember running the phy test when we first found out about it and I believe those numbers were in 30's, but memory is not always good.

What I plan to do this weekend is:
1). Swap the 24 that has the 23 reading to the other leg of the SWM16 and see what happens.

2). Try using the 34 as the bridge (removing the CCK) and see if the numbers change

3). Use my spare SWM16 and rewire back to the attic (as before) then retest.

Hopefully, that will tell me something.

Another thing that I will check is if the PI is on the correct leg of the SWM16. When the tech installed the new SWM16 outside, we the plug pulled and didn't plug back in until everything was finished. I'm not sure what kind of problem that could cause. If it's on the correct leg, he was lucky.






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#738 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 08:20 PM

I'm not sure what all of that will tell you.

The SWiM-16 has about 6 dB of loss in the crossover.

The splitters have about 10 dB.

A PI has about 1 dB if you're running the DECA through it.

The receiver test should be "repeatable" to ±1 or 2 dB.

I check coax loss with a CCK [or other DECA] at one end and a receiver on the other to run the "one node" loss.


A.K.A VOS

#739 OFFLINE   slice1900

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 01:58 PM

Recent tests of splitter DECA losses have shown they're now -10 dB for all splitters.

Older splitters used to have a 6 dB difference between a 2-way and 8-way, but the newer all have the same -10 dB.

 

Are you saying that the DECA losses for a 2 way are 10db and the losses for a 8 way are also 10db? Curious how they accomplished that, any idea?


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#740 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 03:03 PM

Are you saying that the DECA losses for a 2 way are 10db and the losses for a 8 way are also 10db? Curious how they accomplished that, any idea?

When I first got my hands on these splitters they varied from about 7 dB [2-way] to 10 dB [4-way] to 13 [8-way].

Several members have tested 2, 4, & 8-ways a couple of months ago and they ALL had 10 dB loss.

 

The 2 & 4-ways aren't hard to have 10 dB, but the 8-way would be because 9 of the 10 dB is in the 8-way split.

I have yet to open up one of these and check out what's inside, "but" I found a splitter design that looks to have 1 dB insertion loss for an 8-way, so "it's possible".

The same design can be padded for less outputs.

I'm not sure why someone would want to pad the splitters, "but then" DirecTV doesn't always do things for an engineering sense.


A.K.A VOS




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