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The official "ask veryoldschool" thread


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823 replies to this topic

#201 OFFLINE   gphvid

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 04:14 PM

Yeah, the rainstorm shouldn't have had any effect.
It does sound like the router is the cause, since the WiFi is still working for MRV.
It isn't clear if all the receivers are losing internet, or just those connected via WiFi.
Your router should have a factory reset button, which would be the next thing I'd suggest. Of course make sure you have the factory password before pressing the reset, as this step clears everything.


I wonder if it is possibly a heat issue with the router. THis version of the router is a flat version, meaning it lays flat on the surface. Other versions are vertically sitting which suggests that air flow is better for them than on flat. The router is a little over a year old, I wonder if it is starting to fail. FWIW, We notice video stuttering that was not there before as well, which I experienced with a Belkin router I had a year ago. That stopped when I bought the Cisco. And now it is happening again. So I wonder if I should think about replacing. ALso, what's a good one that is reliable and long lasting?

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#202 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 04:20 PM

I wonder if it is possibly a heat issue with the router. THis version of the router is a flat version, meaning it lays flat on the surface. Other versions are vertically sitting which suggests that air flow is better for them than on flat. The router is a little over a year old, I wonder if it is starting to fail. FWIW, We notice video stuttering that was not there before as well, which I experienced with a Belkin router I had a year ago. That stopped when I bought the Cisco. And now it is happening again. So I wonder if I should think about replacing. ALso, what's a good one that is reliable and long lasting?

I'm sure you could turn it up on its side, if you think heat might be the problem.
WiFi can be a cause of stuttering, so that might not be the router failing.
You really need to look at the power levels, channel being used, and what other WiFi networks nearby are using.
I posted some on this here: http://www.dbstalk.c...9&postcount=250
A.K.A VOS

#203 OFFLINE   gphvid

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 03:52 AM

I'm sure you could turn it up on its side, if you think heat might be the problem.
WiFi can be a cause of stuttering, so that might not be the router failing.
You really need to look at the power levels, channel being used, and what other WiFi networks nearby are using.
I posted some on this here: http://www.dbstalk.c...9&postcount=250


That inSSIDer program is really helpful. It shows my network competing with another one whose signal strength is alot lower but still there.
Their's peaks between -85 to -90 amplitude and mine between -50 and -60, if I read the scale correctly. Does this mean that I should try a channel change? And if I do the router, do I need to set the bridges as well or do they automatically find the right channel?

#204 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 07:50 AM

That inSSIDer program is really helpful. It shows my network competing with another one whose signal strength is alot lower but still there.
Their's peaks between -85 to -90 amplitude and mine between -50 and -60, if I read the scale correctly. Does this mean that I should try a channel change? And if I do the router, do I need to set the bridges as well or do they automatically find the right channel?

when I change channels in the router, the clients have always adjusted to the change without needing to do anything.
25-30 dB difference should be enough I would think.
A.K.A VOS

#205 OFFLINE   bflora

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 01:39 PM

I have a question for VOS. I am thinking about getting an HR34. I bought a SWM16 and plan to hook up one SWM branch to the HR34 and the other SWM branch to a 2-way splitter with one leg to an HR20-700 and the other leg to an HR24-500. Do I need to block the DECA signals coming from the HR34 and the HR24? I have seen your comments on using a diplexer to filter out the DECA frequencies at the receivers and could use this approach. Plan B would be to hook the HR20 and the HR24 to the legacy ports with bbc's. Any suggestions would be appreciated. I don't want any interaction between any of the receivers (ie. no mrv or DECA capabilities).

#206 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 02:44 PM

I have a question for VOS. I am thinking about getting an HR34. I bought a SWM16 and plan to hook up one SWM branch to the HR34 and the other SWM branch to a 2-way splitter with one leg to an HR20-700 and the other leg to an HR24-500. Do I need to block the DECA signals coming from the HR34 and the HR24? I have seen your comments on using a diplexer to filter out the DECA frequencies at the receivers and could use this approach. Plan B would be to hook the HR20 and the HR24 to the legacy ports with bbc's. Any suggestions would be appreciated. I don't want any interaction between any of the receivers (ie. no mrv or DECA capabilities).

It would seem [since I'm in favor of DECA] that adding a white DECA to the HR20-700 would be the best option. You can connect an ethernet to the HR34 and have internet access for all.

Now if you're wanting to go all ethernet, then it might be as simple as adding a BSF to the HR20.
Because the HR34 is on one side of the SWiM-16, the crossover loss of the SWiM-16 can work to your advantage, allowing enough attenuation for the active HR34 DECA. The HR24 will deactivate but since it's still there, it blocks the signal from the tuners, which would be why the HR20 would need a BSF.
A.K.A VOS

#207 OFFLINE   bflora

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 02:50 PM

My goal is to just have 3 independent receivers with no Deca or ethernet. If I use a diplexer backward on the hr34 and the hr24 with the ota port terminated, would that filter out any deca signals and solve my problem?

#208 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 03:02 PM

My goal is to just have 3 independent receivers with no Deca or ethernet. If I use a diplexer backward on the hr34 and the hr24 with the ota port terminated, would that filter out any deca signals and solve my problem?

Yes. Connecting it in the combining mode, where OTA would be "added", and using a termination, will send the DECA signal into the load. Do use a good diplexer for this as those with poor rejection may not work as well.
A.K.A VOS

#209 OFFLINE   bflora

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 03:06 PM

What frequency does the DECA use?

#210 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 03:23 PM

What frequency does the DECA use?

525-575 MHz.
A.K.A VOS

#211 OFFLINE   DLP2008

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 09:24 PM

Another question for VOS:
I'm thinking about connecting my HR22 to my home network for using on demand and directv2pc. I don't have the cinema connection kit (yet) - I'm entertaining the idea of running an ethernet cable to it from the modem, both because I believe it would be cheaper, and I'm afraid a wifi connection would be slower. The problem is that the modem/router is in a different room. Would it be okay to use a long ethernet cable run (~50 feet) from the cable to the receiver (under the floor/house)? I didn't know if having a run that long would degrade the connection between the modem and receiver.

#212 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 09:33 PM

Another question for VOS:
I'm thinking about connecting my HR22 to my home network for using on demand and directv2pc. I don't have the cinema connection kit (yet) - I'm entertaining the idea of running an ethernet cable to it from the modem, both because I believe it would be cheaper, and I'm afraid a wifi connection would be slower. The problem is that the modem/router is in a different room. Would it be okay to use a long ethernet cable run (~50 feet) from the cable to the receiver (under the floor/house)? I didn't know if having a run that long would degrade the connection between the modem and receiver.

Not all ethernet cables are equal.
With short ones you can get away with more than long ones.
I have a 50' cat5e that works like a champ.
A.K.A VOS

#213 OFFLINE   DLP2008

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 09:59 PM

Hmm, makes sense. Thanks. I have been visiting this site more than anything else lately..i've become more interested in the process behind satellite TV than the actual programming :P

#214 ONLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 12:17 PM

Remind me... Can the hr34 power a deca? I know there is no reason to ever do that but curious....

#215 OFFLINE   ckl93

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 05:47 PM

Hello,
I was wondering if anyone could help me with this issue. My current setup has a powered deca unit (deca1mr-01) getting ethernet from a cable router and going into a swm8 splitter. The swm8 goes up to 2 H25 receivers and 1 HR24 receiver and I am able to get multi-room viewing with my on-demand recordings. My power inserter is connected to my HR24 and to the power port of the swm8 splitter.
I was looking to get ethernet connections out near each of the receivers to get connections to blu-ray players, xbox, a wireless hub and TV. When I hook up additional deca units to the receivers, the deca units have no power and my powered deca unit in the basement has the c-link light start flashing yellow. I realize the HR24 and H25 receivers have internal deca but does it matter? Also, would the solution be to move my power inserter to my basement where the satellite line comes in? Thanks for helping me out!

#216 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 06:01 PM

Hello,
I was wondering if anyone could help me with this issue. My current setup has a powered deca unit (deca1mr-01) getting ethernet from a cable router and going into a swm8 splitter. The swm8 goes up to 2 H25 receivers and 1 HR24 receiver and I am able to get multi-room viewing with my on-demand recordings. My power inserter is connected to my HR24 and to the power port of the swm8 splitter.
I was looking to get ethernet connections out near each of the receivers to get connections to blu-ray players, xbox, a wireless hub and TV. When I hook up additional deca units to the receivers, the deca units have no power and my powered deca unit in the basement has the c-link light start flashing yellow. I realize the HR24 and H25 receivers have internal deca but does it matter? Also, would the solution be to move my power inserter to my basement where the satellite line comes in? Thanks for helping me out!

All of the receivers with internal DECAs don't power an external, so that is a no go.
Sounds like what you're looking for would be an unsupported configuration, where you either bring another coax from the splitter, or add a 2-way splitter, or if the PI output isn't being used, connect another black DECA like you're using to connect to your router. This will give you a point of access to add other devices to the ethernet port.
If you have the white DECA, but not another black DECA, you could get the 18 volt PI to power the DECA also.

Remember this isn't supported by DirecTV, but has worked for others just fine.
A.K.A VOS

#217 OFFLINE   ckl93

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 11:25 AM

Thanks VOS! It worked! I ended up splitting the coax before it went into the receiver. I had the bb deca box that directv supplied and hooked it up. I had ethernet coming out. So does the bb deca box do the same thing as a powered white deca box? I have another entertainment area that needs internet and I already have a white deca box. So can I do the same thing again only using a white deca box? That way I only have to by the power cord and not the bb deca box.
Thanks for your help!

#218 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 12:13 PM

Thanks VOS! It worked! I ended up splitting the coax before it went into the receiver. I had the bb deca box that directv supplied and hooked it up. I had ethernet coming out. So does the bb deca box do the same thing as a powered white deca box? I have another entertainment area that needs internet and I already have a white deca box. So can I do the same thing again only using a white deca box? That way I only have to by the power cord and not the bb deca box.
Thanks for your help!

The white DECA and a PI was used before the black BB DECA was released, so yes it will do the same thing.
A.K.A VOS

#219 OFFLINE   bflora

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 04:18 PM

A new question for VOS. I ordered an HR34 and am going to use it with an AM21N. Should I hook the HR34 up and get it authorized before I hook up the AM21N or can I hook up the AM21N to the HR34 before getting authorization without a problem?

#220 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 05:09 PM

A new question for VOS. I ordered an HR34 and am going to use it with an AM21N. Should I hook the HR34 up and get it authorized before I hook up the AM21N or can I hook up the AM21N to the HR34 before getting authorization without a problem?

Good question, but I'm not sure I have an answer, "other than", nothing will work before authorization.
I'm sure you could connect the AM-21, but doubt you'll be able to run the setup for it.
A.K.A VOS

#221 OFFLINE   gphvid

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 05:14 AM

when I change channels in the router, the clients have always adjusted to the change without needing to do anything.
25-30 dB difference should be enough I would think.


I reset my router using the reset button and then positioned it vertically to try to increase airflow. I also went in and moved the wifi setting off automatic and changed the channel to 2 while also setting for auto 20-40 MHz. This seemed to make the wifi computers browse a little quicker while also holding the internet connection better and resolving (at least for the moment) some video stuttering when running video through it with wifi MRV. InSSIDer showed me that where the router was originally with the channels on ch 6, there were about three other networks nearby that were using the same channels. Plus, my neighbor was using ch 8. So I set to ch 3 and will see how long it lasts.

ANd I found a firmware upgrade on the Cisco Linksys site which also may help things a bit...

Thanks again.

Edited by gphvid, 01 April 2012 - 02:34 PM.


#222 OFFLINE   Rtm

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Posted 02 April 2012 - 12:14 PM

VOS when terminating RG-6 Quad Shield does the white foam pice need to come almost all the way through the barrel or is it fine if their is air around the wire before it inserts into something? Do i need to remove foil or not or can a layer of foil and maybe one of the layer of braids go inside the barrel?

#223 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 02 April 2012 - 12:32 PM

VOS when terminating RG-6 Quad Shield does the white foam pice need to come almost all the way through the barrel or is it fine if their is air around the wire before it inserts into something? Do i need to remove foil or not or can a layer of foil and maybe one of the layer of braids go inside the barrel?

All coax should have the dielectric flush with the mating plane of the connector.
The foil should also reach this same plane.
The braid should also reach to the end.
RG6 QS require the right connectors because of the larger outer diameter of the added foil and braid layers.

By not extending the dielectric and the foil/braid, to the end, you are changing the impedance for this short length of the line. While it may still work, it may also cause problems at some frequency, since the impact of this impedance change depends on where in the wavelength it occurs.
A.K.A VOS

#224 OFFLINE   KSbugeater

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Posted 02 April 2012 - 12:56 PM

VOS, I tried some searches but could not find an answer to...
"Can I daisy-chain a HR20-100 via CAT-5 that does not have its own DECA to a HR21-200 that does have a DECA?"
I have a SWM8 connected to 4 SWM units already: HR24, HR22, HR21, and HR20-700. So I have my 8 tuners used up. I used to have an HR10 hooked up to 2 legacy ports in the same room as the HR21; since it was not networkable, the 8 tuner limit wasn't an issue. I was thinking that I could save a DECA by connecting the HR20-100 directly to the 2nd CAT-5 port on the HR21, and while the HR20 would not be able to tune HD channels (except OTA) it could play shows recorded on the other 4 units. Is this possible? I do have a few routers lying around unused that could be injected if necessary. Thanks for your help and sorry if this has already been asked.

#225 OFFLINE   Rtm

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Posted 02 April 2012 - 12:59 PM

Thank you for the quick reply yes I think my current ones are jacked up that I am using on two receivers I did them myself I've just dealt with it for a while. I am attempting to hook up the Comcast (to my TV with the coax jack next the one used for DirecTV) to see if they offer the CW in QAM since I have basic cable with the internet

You get the copper at the end then pull the black cover off a little further more and then just pull back the first layer of braids? You can leave the foil, braids, foil interacts with the dielectric as long as they are cut off and not touching the copper core at all?

I think I have the right tools and you can see my epic fail.

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